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View Full Version : Just like a dang noob...


~reefchik~
08/04/2009, 08:18 PM
The new 90 gal tank is set up and running well. But doncha know, I didn't make absolutely sure there was plenty of space at the back for a HOB skimmer. :rolleye1:

We tried the Bakpak that came off the 20 gal tank, and it's a no go.

Now my question is this: who makes the slimmest HOB skimmer? I have 3.5 inches of clearance between the wall and the tank. I'd have thought that was enough but the skimmers I'm looking at (mostly the Octo line) are 4 inch deep (or wide).

addicted2reefin
08/04/2009, 08:27 PM
i would go with an insump skimmer at that size. hobs arent big enough for that size tank. prism skimmers are the only ones that may fit, and they arent that good.

~reefchik~
08/04/2009, 08:28 PM
No sump :(

Henry Bowman
08/04/2009, 08:50 PM
To get a decent skimmer on there, you're going to have to go on one of the sides. SWX is making a HOB skimmer and then there's Deltec'$$$$

sedor
08/04/2009, 09:02 PM
Your really going to want a sump. See about getting an overflow box, then plumb in a sump. Its so easy, you just need a couple pieces of flexible tubing if you want to do it simple. You could even just have a small tank sitting under there for right now with a skimmer sitting in it.

Of course eventually your going to want baffles and a fuge etc etc :) It never ends lol.

HighlandReef
08/04/2009, 09:08 PM
+1 for the sump, your gonna need it

~reefchik~
08/05/2009, 09:31 AM
Ah geez.....I was afraid you guys were gonna say that I need a sump.

I've always been chicken to have one. I just foresee overflow issues and floods in my future :(

OTOH, my DH is very handy with plumbing and stuff. If I could get him on board with it (excellent mechanical thinking and ability to build anything), to understand the workings of a sump, it would probably be ok. Problem is this is my hobby, always has been.

I just spent some time at Melevsreef DIY sump site. I'm impressed with his designs. I have a couple old tanks in the basement and even a pond pump that I think might work as a return pump.

All things considered though, I'd almost rather buy a sump from the LFS or something, and pay another knowledgeable reefer to set it up for us.

Decisions, decisions.

addicted2reefin
08/05/2009, 09:56 AM
it is not very hard to do, make sure u drill the return line at the waterline or just below it, inorder to break the siphon from the return, just in case of a power outage. make sure that ur return pump is smaller than water u overflow is rated for, and leave 10 gallons of dry room in the sump and u wont have a flood!

the benifits go far beyond a skimmer

~reefchik~
08/05/2009, 10:37 AM
addicted, that's all good advice. I know there are many benefits of a sump, I just never had the nerve to set one up <blush>.

You're convincing me :-)

~reefchik~
08/05/2009, 07:36 PM
I'm looking at this one for now:

Octopus 100F HOB (http://wholesaleaquaticsupplies.com/shop/octopus-100f-hangontheback-skimmer-with-filter-system-p-4283.html). The size is right, but there are no other specs given.

Anyone know how large a tank this skimmer is rated for?

The Reef Octopus 300 Dual Hang On looks good too.

Also the HOT MSX skimmer...I can't find dimensions for it. In other threads I've seen Octo and MSX recommended a lot but I'm not seeing all the info I need to make a purchase.

In case you're wondering, the "Convince Hubby Of Need For New DIY Sump" discussion hasn't gone well so far....

James77
08/05/2009, 07:53 PM
I've only had a sump overflow once, and that was a lesson in top-off reservoir siphon :). Mine now has 3 float switches to prevent top-off overflowing the sump. Other than that, there is no real way to overflow them as long as you give enough room to hold water from the main tank in case of power outage.

Tell him you will need to tear down the entire wall and move it 1 inch so you can fit the skimmer in- see if he warms to the sump idea with that.

If you go sump- build your own with an aquarium with glass baffles and silicone-

~reefchik~
08/05/2009, 09:06 PM
LOL, Jim. The tank is on an external wall....don't believe I'll get away with that one.

I'm eyeballing my 20 gallon tank in the LR that all the stuff except sand is out of now. It would make a nice sump.

Years ago I built a part sump/part fuge, out of a 5 gallon tank. Too bad it's too small to be of any use. But I could take it out and look at what I did with it, back when I was in the business and knew more than I can remember now :lol:

whowadat
08/05/2009, 11:48 PM
Hmmmm, sorry to barge in guys but I'm confused about what sort of overflow works without anything hanging off the back ?? Do they make a box that has two compartments that both sit inside the tank ??

I'm using a Lifereef system which has the black overflow box in the tank with another box hanging off the back. An acrylic tube runs from the tank overflow into the box hanging off the back, this is where the syphon comes from. Should the power go off the syphon stops when the water is lower than the box inside the tank. I drilled a hole in the return to break the syphon from that line. You obviously have to leave some room in your sump for this water should the power go off - or you shut it off to feed.

The problem isn't when the power goes off, its when it comes back on....no ??? If the power comes back on and you don't have a syphon coming from the tank back into the sump, you'll empty your sump via the return pump into the display overflowing it and maybe your fishes with it on the floor.

Does anyone else make an overflow that guarantees syphon start up when the power goes back on ?? I was under the impression that Lifereef was the only one, that's why I bought their product. Which by the way cost me 125.00 and its rated for up to 750 gph from your return pump. Mine measures 4.5 inches out from exterior tank glass but I think you could squeeze 4" out of it - but I guess that's not gonna work for you either. Bummmer

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I did put together a 20L for a sump and got a EuroReef C-2 skimmer for it barely used on RC, both for another 125 bucks. (250 total including Lifereef overflow) I couldn't be happier, I sure hope you find a solution!


Mike

whowadat
08/05/2009, 11:54 PM
BTW....I guess you could hang an overflow off the side of your tank. Gives you a bit more room to work and maitenance of a sump if you go that route. The box might be able to be hidden with a plant or some sort of fish related knick knack on a small table or something. Again, you can never have enough work space.

You could also make a sump inside your tank by siliconing a piece of glass off of one end, I seen it done with a 180 but I guess your 90 is only 4' long as it is.

Just a thought....

Katmanblue
08/06/2009, 06:45 AM
Reefchik--just do it :) I fought it for 10 years, but now I have a 3 month old 90g with a sump. I also envisioned floods, electrical fires, ruined carpets, etc but at the end of the day, to achieve the optimum results from this hobby it was a corner I didnt want to keep cutting. I may have missed it in an earlier post, if so I'm sorry, but you arent the first (or last) one that set up a tank and miscalculated a measurement. You could "just" get a large clean trash bin, siphon the tank till it is empty and move it off the wall to the spot you need. And as far as this being "your hobby", what better way to get your other 1/2 involved than with a plumbing, electrical problem that can be solved. It will suck him right in :)
Good luck, keep us posted....

Amoore311
08/06/2009, 07:42 AM
Hmmmm, sorry to barge in guys but I'm confused about what sort of overflow works without anything hanging off the back ?? Do they make a box that has two compartments that both sit inside the tank ??

No, she would have to drill the tank, or hang the overflow box on the side.


Does anyone else make an overflow that guarantees syphon start up when the power goes back on ?? I was under the impression that Lifereef was the only one, that's why I bought their product. Which by the way cost me 125.00 and its rated for up to 750 gph from your return pump.

I bought a generic overflow box for my old 29 Gallon tank from my LFS for $30, it held the siphon just fine during power outages.

phenom5
08/06/2009, 10:07 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15481701#post15481701 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by whowadat

Does anyone else make an overflow that guarantees syphon start up when the power goes back on ??

Amiracle HOB overflows work very well.

Toddrtrex
08/06/2009, 01:02 PM
If you do go the HOB overflow route, I would suggest getting a LifeReef U-tube one. They are more expensive, but work great. I have one on my 75 and it has been running for 7+ years. It has never lost its siphon (( excluding me removing the U-tube to clean it )), and has always restarted after the main pump was off.

ssavader
08/06/2009, 02:36 PM
I agree on the sump as the best solution by far, but if you are just not up to it, the Red Sea Prism Delux Skimmer is very thin HOB at 2.4". It is rated for up to a 40gal tank and runs about $125, so you would need two. People often slam thes as terrible, but I have had one on my 25 gal. nano for 3 years and it works great (I also have a DV-180 on my 120 gal. reef and have also used an Aqua C Remora before so I do have something to compare the Prism to). If you want to look at the Aqua C Remora, this is also a good skimmer and at 2.75" would also work (it is $159 on Marine Depot). Good luck

Tigé21v
08/06/2009, 03:30 PM
A few trash cans and a couple of strong friends, you can have as much room as you want behind your tank.
Just measured my Deltec MCE600, just under 3 1/2 inches.

~reefchik~
08/08/2009, 08:44 AM
We've decided on a sump. I have a line on a local one for sale which I will check out this weekend.

Moving the tank out into the room even a couple inches would be a desperate last resort, since the room is small. In addition, DH is working a big job right now and really doesn't have time to help. I can't do it myself, that's for sure.

I'm thinking an Eshopps overflow due to it's skinny size, but will research those others you guys mentioned. Can't really put it on the "room side" of the tank, as it would get smacked, I'm sure.

It's a tight setting, but it was really the only place left in the house that it could be done. We needed to shore up the floor from the unfinished side of the basement, and this wall was the best option.

This photo was taken the day we set it up:

http://hunnybuns.eaph3.com/share/90Reef/DSCF8591.jpg

In front of the tank is a recliner, next to that is my 20 high FW tank, and to the left of the tank and behind is our back door and a short wall, which is a major traffic area into the Family Rm.

Geez it's getting complicated! What do they say about free stuff? It's never really free :p

~reefchik~
08/08/2009, 08:52 AM
Ok, quick question about the Deltec MC600. I'm impressed. I'll spend the money. But when and if we get the sump can it really be used in sump as well? The Deltec site briefy states:

"The Multi Compact External skimmer is ideal for ‘hang on’ installation directly onto the outside of the aquarium or sump
and requires no further supply pump for highly efficient operation"

This looks like the ideal solution - get one quick and HOB and then put down into the sump later on when we get that going.

Henry Bowman
08/08/2009, 02:46 PM
RC,

That Deltec is a good skimmer. You might want to check out the SWX hob skimmer. Costs less and is getting good reviews.

Either way, the HOB skimmers will hang outside the sump. Make sure you have room for it under there !

luther1200
08/08/2009, 09:11 PM
If you are geting a sump I wouldn't bother with a HOB. You can get a Vertex In skimmer for a good price and its a great skimmer. But there is a ton of skimmer's out there. Warner Marine is another great choice IMO.

Tigé21v
08/09/2009, 04:31 AM
I've heard of people setting the whole unit inside their sump, in the water. Just need to make sure that section of the sump is deep enough. But if you're going to end up doing a sump, I would look at another skimmer. With the added water volume, you will be pushing the limits of that skimmer, IMO.

~reefchik~
08/10/2009, 11:02 PM
The SWC does look good but it's too deep (wide) for my situation. I have only 3.5 in. clearance tank to wall.

Still trying to figure out what size sump I can squeeze into the stand space through a 15" opening.

Tigé21v
08/11/2009, 06:21 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15508492#post15508492 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ~reefchik~
The SWC does look good but it's too deep (wide) for my situation. I have only 3.5 in. clearance tank to wall.

Still trying to figure out what size sump I can squeeze into the stand space through a 15" opening.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/aquarium_sizes.php

Looks like anything up to a 30 gallon long. A 55 is also narrow enough, but I'm sure too long.

Tigé21v
08/11/2009, 06:40 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15508492#post15508492 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ~reefchik~
The SWC does look good but it's too deep (wide) for my situation. I have only 3.5 in. clearance tank to wall.

Still trying to figure out what size sump I can squeeze into the stand space through a 15" opening.

I don't know if you have a basement, which I think you do since you said you shored up the floor underneath the tank, you may want to seriously consider putting the sump in the basement. It really is the way to go IMO. You could put a Rubbermaid 100 or 135 gallon container down there, and you would have plenty of room for anything you wanted to put in the sump, including any size skimmer you wanted. Very easy to set up a container with a float valve for your top off. You could have your RO unit right next to it. Water changes are super easy. You would need to spend a few more bucks on the return pump, but you'll never need to worry about shopping for a chiller. Not to mention it will leave your stand empty for food, etc.

gary504504
08/11/2009, 11:02 AM
hey i agreed that you may need a sump on that size tank,but check out jeff at lifereef he makes hob skimmers and he does custom work,he might be able to build something to your specs,and lifereef has great quality products,thats jeff at lifereef.com they'll also have his contact number on his site

~reefchik~
08/11/2009, 11:18 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15509221#post15509221 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tigé21v
I don't know if you have a basement, which I think you do since you said you shored up the floor underneath the tank, you may want to seriously consider putting the sump in the basement. It really is the way to go IMO. You could put a Rubbermaid 100 or 135 gallon container down there, and you would have plenty of room for anything you wanted to put in the sump, including any size skimmer you wanted. Very easy to set up a container with a float valve for your top off. You could have your RO unit right next to it. Water changes are super easy. You would need to spend a few more bucks on the return pump, but you'll never need to worry about shopping for a chiller. Not to mention it will leave your stand empty for food, etc.

Heheh, this is actually a very cool idea. But it won't work for me because directly below the tank in the basement is built-in storage. No way will DH tear out all his hard work for this project.

It would be even more tempting if I still had my old Rubbermaid goldfish vat that I got from the store I used to work at when they threw it away. It was at least as big as you're talking.

That would have to be one hefty return pump! Still, I appreciate your thoughts.

~reefchik~
08/11/2009, 11:28 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15509159#post15509159 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tigé21v
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/aquarium_sizes.php

Looks like anything up to a 30 gallon long. A 55 is also narrow enough, but I'm sure too long.

I still have my 20 gallon nano reef tank that I could use. I think it will fit fine. I haven't broken it all the way down yet, still keeping the sand alive to transfer over to the new tank, at least a couple more cups worth.

Then I'd have to have glass or acrylic pieces cut for baffles and partitions and glue them in, etc.

I dunno....call me a sissy, but I'd rather buy a ready-made sump or at least something a little more plug n play. I have so little time right now to fool around with this, and DH has none at all. (as an inveterate DIY-er I never thought I'd make a statement like that, LOL)

I've given a lot of thought to the different ideas everyone has shared and appreciate all of them. I tried to find Lifereef overflows last night but couldn't. I didn't search lifereef.com though. I'll try again.

DarG
08/11/2009, 01:11 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15510701#post15510701 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ~reefchik~
I still have my 20 gallon nano reef tank that I could use. I think it will fit fine. I haven't broken it all the way down yet, still keeping the sand alive to transfer over to the new tank, at least a couple more cups worth.

Then I'd have to have glass or acrylic pieces cut for baffles and partitions and glue them in, etc.

I dunno....call me a sissy, but I'd rather buy a ready-made sump or at least something a little more plug n play. I have so little time right now to fool around with this, and DH has none at all. (as an inveterate DIY-er I never thought I'd make a statement like that, LOL)

I've given a lot of thought to the different ideas everyone has shared and appreciate all of them. I tried to find Lifereef overflows last night but couldn't. I didn't search lifereef.com though. I'll try again.

In all honesty, a sump doesnt have to be anything more than a vessel that holds water. It doesnt have to have baffles to work. It can be as simple as a rigid, baffless rubbermaid vessel with an simple ATO system if running a skimmer in the sump ... to a fancy, multibaffled sump/refugium with bubble traps and skimmer compartment.

This stuff is really very, very simple in principle and equipment can be fancy or simple and work great either way.