RowaPhos and Hair Algae?

[GlassReef]

Has anyone noticed a correlation between the use of RowaPhos and an outbreak of HA? I had been using BRS's HC GFO and never had a problem with HA. Then I bought into a group buy for RowaPhos, due to the great price. Since then I've been having a bit of a problem with a short brownish green HA all over my sand bed and most of the rock. All my params are excellent. The only thing that corresponds with the HA start is the RowaPhos. So, again my question, as this happened to anyone else?

Thanks for any input.

[The0wn4g3]

Yes, the LFS I one worked for order like a 5 pound bucket of RowaPhos at one time. Every tank we used it in had a massive hair algae outbreak within a month. We took out all the rowaphos and after a few good water changes the algae didn't return. I'm pretty sure at one point my boss contacted the manufacturer and found out there was a "bad batch" that got out, similar to the "bad batch" of IO salt I suppose.

So yes, you aren't just imagining things. There is a correlation.

[GlassReef]

Do you remember how long ago that was?

[The0wn4g3]

Hmm... it was quite awhile ago. Maybe up to a year. We stopped using it after the hair algae outbreak. We used Seachem's PhosGuard from then on. Although I've read/heard a lot about the "aluminum" problem of PhosGuard, we never had issues on the dozens of tanks we maintained, and I've never had a problem with it in my home tanks.

[luther1200]

FWIW I always had algae problems when I ran ROWAphos. I switched to BRS HC GFO and it totally wiped it all out in under 2 months. I had been trying for almost 2 yrs to get rid of this brown wafer algae I had. Nothing worked but BRS hc gfo. The ROWAphos had zero effect and I always had algae when I used it. Not only the BWA but Red Turf algae also.

And it wasn't a bad batch I got, because I ran it continuosly for over 2 years. And still had problems, but I couldn't figure out what was causing the problems. As soon as I stopped running ROWAphos and started running BRS HC GFO my tank never looked better.

[GlassReef]

Thanks, all - exactly what I was looking for. It's back to BRS HC GFO tomorrow!

[luther1200]

I was actually very suprised when I finally put 2 and 2 together. And that was the only thing I changed so I am %100 positive thats what was going on. I am not sure if it was a by product of using the ROWAphos itself or that it just didn't remove any or enough PO4.

[jjk_reef00]

I also had and still have a hair algea problem with ROWAphos. I thought that was the best stuff you could buy.

[luther1200]

So did I. Until I started using BRS HC GFO.

[luther1200]

Here is a before picture from when I ran ROWAphos.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q284/luther1200/TankBWA1.jpg

Here is an after picture of just under 2 months of BRS HC GFO use. The Brown Wafer Algae literally fell off in big clumps.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q284/luther1200/BWAafter.jpg

You can still see some of the algae in the second pic. There is even less now since that picture is about a week old.

[trwells]

I have used ROWAphos for a while and had problems with brown wafer and red algae. Never thought the Rowa could be the cause.

You guys have convinced me to switch. What is the BRS HC GFO and where can I get it? I tried searching but I am unsure who makes it.

Thanks

[GlassReef]

Here ya go: BRS HC GFO (http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Carbon-and-Phosphate-Remover-GFO-Phosphate-Remover-(GFO)-High-Capacity-GFO/c109_8_89/p434/1-pound-(453-Grams)-High-Capacity-Granular-Ferric-Oxide/product_info.html)

[trwells]

Awesome, Thanks.

[luther1200]

I tried everything you could think of trying to get rid of the brown wafer algae. I was shocked when it started just falling off when I switched GFO.

I have also found that Sally Lightfoot crabs eat it. But they couldn't make a dent in the amount I used to have. But between them and the BRS HC GFO its starting to go away finally.

[trwells]

I had a lot, but the main thing it did was out compete coralline for real estate in several places. Plus it wasn't my favorite look. I solved the problem when I got a new tank.

[luther1200]

I was pretty close to ripping this tannk apart over it. It didn't bother the corals, it was just ugly. And it was so annoying to put a lot of time and effort into an ugly brown tank.

[whatcaneyedo]

This is quite interesting. I never have had a problem in the past with hair algae so I never bothered measuring my phosphate levels until about a year ago out of curiosity. With an elos kit they were .75 last August! I've been running at least 250ml of rowaphos and changing it at least every 4 weeks since then (I've also bought a larger skimmer and doubled my water changes). I've brought my phosphate level down to .01 so far but now I'm having a lot of trouble keeping hair algae under control. I find that if I blow torch it off a rock really well it wont come back but the amount in the tank that I cant torch just keeps growing and thriving. Once my current supply of rowaphos is finished I'm going to give some of the BRS HCGFO a shot and see how it does.

[luther1200]

I think you will be glad you did.

[Necsones]

I was beating on some alage in my tank, and after i started useing Rowaphos the problem has exploded. Not saying that is was the rowaphos that caused it but what everyone is saying, sounds to be what happened to me :(

[Shaka Bra]

My Phospahates levels were at .03 measured by Salifert. Purchased a Phosban reactor two weeks ago and added Rowaphos. Levels are still at .03 two weeks later with the addition of new brown hair algae. Will be switching to Phosban or BRS.

[fijiblue]

I had the opposite happen - I started using BRS media and had a HUGE outbreak of algae! It is not like BRS is a miracle media (as many of you are leading to). It is the same iron oxide as everyone else. The difference between BRS and ROWA is that one is an iron oxide and the other is an iron hydroxide.

Since the incident, I started using aluminum oxide (white media) and have had better results...FWIW

[Sir Edward]

I have been looking for a Phosban Reactor, I am building a 220. All the places I have looked seems to only have them for tanks up to 150. Will that still work for me?

[lbj]

sir edward you will need 2 for your tank ..? i used 3

[luther1200]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15533241#post15533241 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fijiblue
It is not like BRS is a miracle media (as many of you are leading to).

I am not trying to say it a miracle. I am just telling my experience with BRS HC GFO and almost every other iron based GFO on the market. With pictures as proof, and I have more pictures if anybody is interested. And I know it was the GFO that made the difference because it was the only thing that changed. And since I am not the only 1 who had similar issues I would say that there has to be more to it than just a coincidence. I don't necessarily think the ROWAphos was causing the algae, but I do know that it did little to nothing to get rid of the algae. And I know that running half the max dose of BRS HC GFO did in 2 months what Phosban, PURAphos, ROWAphos,etc, couldn't do in 2 years. But to be perfectly fair I didn't try Phosban, PURAphos, and a few others as long as I had been running the ROWAphos. But I did run them for at least a month or 2 each and saw zero results. Where the BRS HC GFO was amazing in that amount of time. I also am not talking about BRS pellets or regular GFO because that I never did try. I am only referring the the high capacity GFO from BRS.

[Doug864]

It is not like BRS is a miracle media (as many of you are leading to).

Not one person said it was a (miracle media) except you!
And so far you are the only one that has had a bad experience with BRS. Maybe all these reefers praising BRS work for BRS :)
Regards,
Doug

[luther1200]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15534174#post15534174 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Doug864
Maybe all these reefers praising BRS work for BRS :)
Regards,
Doug



Or maybe and much more likely, we are just happy to have a great GFO at a good price. And don't want to see people waste there time and money fooling around with a product that didn't work for any of us. And in most cases actually made the problem worse.

[whatcaneyedo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15534350#post15534350 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luther1200
Or maybe and much more likely, we are just happy to have a great GFO at a good price. And don't want to see people waste there time and money fooling around with a product that didn't work for any of us. And in most cases actually made the problem worse.

You're lucky in the States in that regard. For those of us who live in Canada after adding tax, shipping and exchange BRS HCGFO is more expensive than Rowaphos... about $7/lbs more unless I spend nearly $1000 at a time but regardless of how much I buy it will still be more expensive.

[luther1200]

That stinks. There is no other high capacity GFO you could get without having to pay for the expensive shipping?

[fijiblue]

I am not trying to say it a miracle. I am just telling my experience with BRS HC GFO and almost every other iron based GFO on the market.

Iron oxide and hydroxide, regardless of the distributor, comes from the same manufacturer overseas. The only thing different is the label.

And so far you are the only one that has had a bad experience with BRS.

My bad experience was with switching from iron hydroxide to iron oxide, regardless of who it was from - just so happened to be from BRS.

Maybe all these reefers praising BRS work for BRS

Pathetic you even went there:rolleyes: Maybe I work for ROWA...

[GlassReef]

Let's get this thread back on a friendly note, folks. :D

fijiblue - I'm not saying your wrong, I'm far from being an expert, but I was under the impression the hydroxide came from a particular German company and most, if not all, of the oxide comes from another.

[fijiblue]

That is correct, hydroxide is made by a Germany Co. and oxide comes from not only Germany, but from China as well. There is still a debate to this day on which one has stronger absorption traits and capacities...

[Doug864]

Maybe all these reefers praising BRS work for BRS.

Wow, that was suppose to be a joke. All the replys were having positive feed back with BRS. Read the whole post and you might get it. Then again maybe not, oh well.
Regards,
Doug

[GrouperGenius]

Well, I for 1 am willing to try the BRS HC GFO.

I have been using ROWAphos and a fuge of Chaeto. I would think if the ROWA was taking PO4 out of the water my chaeto would not grow. But that is not the case. My chaeto is growing fast and still have many different nuisance algaes in the tank.

[luther1200]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15535354#post15535354 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fijiblue
Iron oxide and hydroxide, regardless of the distributor, comes from the same manufacturer overseas. The only thing different is the label.




I am not a chemist and I won't pretend to be on the computer. All I know is that 1 worked a thousand times better than the other. I have no idea why. I have read posts and threads in the chemistry forum where they compare GFO. And according to the people over there the HC GFO is indeed better.

[fijiblue]

"Read the whole post and you might get it. Then again maybe not, oh well."

I think you are the one that missed the point, chief ;)

By all means, if you haven't tried BRC HC media - please do. All I am saying is don't think it is going to be way better than other HC GFO's because in reality, it came from the same manufacturer.

[luther1200]

Very mature response.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15533241#post15533241 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fijiblue
I had the opposite happen - I started using BRS media and had a HUGE outbreak of algae! It is not like BRS is a miracle media (as many of you are leading to). It is the same iron oxide as everyone else. The difference between BRS and ROWA is that one is an iron oxide and the other is an iron hydroxide.

Iron oxide and hydroxide, regardless of the distributor, comes from the same manufacturer overseas. The only thing different is the label.




And a total contradiction of your earlier post. Were you say BRS HC GFO is basically the same thing as ROWAphos with a different label. Or were you the one who didn't get the fact that the whole thread was reffering the BRS HC and not there regular GFO.This will be my last response to you.

[blennielove]

Greetings all,
What is BRS HC GFO ?
Thanks!

[GlassReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15535539#post15535539 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fijiblue
... There is still a debate to this day on which one has stronger absorption traits and capacities... And there are probably very few, in the hobby, that have the expertise/hardware/inclination to find out.

One thing I was thinking - GFH, as it's name implies, is wet, whereas GFO is dry. What if it (GFH) went through a period of incorrect (whatever that might mean) storage - let's say in a warm climate? Is it possible that some bacterial (or other) contaminant could grow using the hydroxide as a medium? A rhetorical question, of course, but could some bacteria or mold, serve as a growth accelerator for algae?

[GlassReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15535835#post15535835 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by blennielove
... What is BRS HC GFO ? Bulk Reef Supply's High Capacity Granular Ferric Oxide.

[fijiblue]

Were you say BRS HC GFO is basically the same thing as ROWAphos with a different label
:confused: Perhaps you missed the spot where I describe the difference between Iron Hydroxide (ROWA) and Iron Oxide (BRS HC GFO) - at any rate, here it is again:

"The difference between BRS and ROWA is that one is an iron oxide and the other is an iron hydroxide. "

To avoid confusion again...any wet media (Iron Hydroxide) regardless of the company that sells it, comes from the same manufacturer. The same goes for all dry media (Iron Oxide) with the exception of some being manufactured in China as well.

This will be my last response to you.

Thank you...

One thing I was thinking - GFH, as it's name implies, is wet, whereas GFO is dry. What if it (GFH) went through a period of incorrect (whatever that might mean) storage - let's say in a warm climate? Is it possible that some bacterial (or other) contaminant could grow using the hydroxide as a medium? A rhetorical question, of course, but could some bacteria or mold, serve as a growth accelerator for algae?

Very interesting question - not sure on that one and definitely would be interested in finding out.

[fijiblue]

GlassReef - cool build thread!

How do you like dosing? I only ask because I have been thinking about retiring my reactor.

[luther1200]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15535852#post15535852 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GlassReef
And there are probably very few, in the hobby, that have the expertise/hardware/inclination to find out.

One thing I was thinking - GFH, as it's name implies, is wet, whereas GFO is dry. What if it (GFH) went through a period of incorrect (whatever that might mean) storage - let's say in a warm climate? Is it possible that some bacterial (or other) contaminant could grow using the hydroxide as a medium? A rhetorical question, of course, but could some bacteria or mold, serve as a growth accelerator for algae?


Could be, or I also thought that since ROWA has to be rinsed so much that maybe its very hard to get all the fines out. And even if the water looks clear it might still have some trace iron in it. And maybe that trace iron could be fueling the algae. But that was just an thought I had. I have no proof or anything to back it up. But probably unlikely anyway, because people dose iron for the fuge's and aren't reporting algae out breaks from it. I would like to ask a chemist if either is a possibility.

[GlassReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15535931#post15535931 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fijiblue
... How do you like dosing? I only ask because I have been thinking about retiring my reactor. Greatest thing since sliced bread! :D

Seriously ... it makes it very easy to maintain my supplement values within narrow (IMO) limits.

Alk is always 8.3 dKH +- 0.2 (LaMotte)
Ca stays at 440 ppm +- 20 (Elos)
Mg stays at 1350 ppm +- 50 (Elos)

When one of the values starts to stray, I just add or subtract a minute or two to the dosing time. Lately my coral growth has taken off and the tank needs more supplements. Dosing makes it easy to maintain the values. I'd never go back to a Ca reactor. I've read some say that dosing is inadequate for a large tank. My current total is approx. 350gals and I have no problem.

[GlassReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15536042#post15536042 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luther1200
Could be, or I also thought that since ROWA has to be rinsed so much that maybe its very hard to get all the fines out. And even if the water looks clear it might still have some trace iron in it. And maybe that trace iron could be fueling the algae. But that was just an thought I had. I have no proof or anything to back it up. But probably unlikely anyway, because people dose iron for the fuge's and aren't reporting algae out breaks from it. I would like to ask a chemist if either is a possibility. You hit the problem on the head! There are so many possibilities. We just don't have the means to determine what the real cause is - if any.

[fijiblue]

I burn through a full reactor in about 3 weeks! I was thinking that if I can eliminate the reactor and still keep up with demands, I could cut out yet another source of phosphates. My only concern is that it would be at the expense of adding chlorides with dosing. Have you tried that pure calcium used in Europe?

[luther1200]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15536094#post15536094 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GlassReef
Greatest thing since sliced bread! :D

Seriously ... it makes it very easy to maintain my supplement values within narrow (IMO) limits.

Alk is always 8.3 dKH +- 0.2 (LaMotte)
Ca stays at 440 ppm +- 20 (Elos)
Mg stays at 1350 ppm +- 50 (Elos)

When one of the values starts to stray, I just add or subtract a minute or two to the dosing time. Lately my coral growth has taken off and the tank needs more supplements. Dosing makes it easy to maintain the values. I'd never go back to a Ca reactor. I've read some say that dosing is inadequate for a large tank. My current total is approx. 350gals and I have no problem.



I agree that dosing pumps are great. I recently got 2 and couldn't be happier with the outcome. I used to get a different value for my Alk every time I tested. Not dramatically different, but it is much more consitant now. Using Reef Crystals I haven't had to dose Mg in a long time. It stays at 1400(Elos) with just regular WC. My Ca was always stable but a little low (390) with the dosing pump its always 420-440. I never had a Ca reactor but I doubt I will get 1. And since I drip kalk too I don't think I will ever need 1.


GlassReef- what made you switch from a reactor?

[luther1200]

Any updates, GlassReef?

[GlassReef]

Well, I've been back with the HC GFO for a little over a week. The short HA on my sand is definitely losing the battle. It is not gone, but looks like it's on the way out. I'll update again in a week.

[luther1200]

Good luck.

[vanillagorila]

I have a very similar problem with a different brand GFO (name of brand left out on purpose) after reading this I have shut my reactor off and removed the GFO. I will be placing a order to BRS.

[Reefun]

Is Phosban Iron Hydroxide or Iron Oxide ?

[jjk_reef00]

I wish I would have read all of this before... I ditched rowa-phos because I was having algea problems. I switched over to sea-gel and it is better than rowa phos but not seeing improvements.

[GlassReef]

Well my HA is definitely on the way out. At least, it is becoming much less of a problem. The HA on the sand bed has disappeared completely, over large areas.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15617744#post15617744 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefun
Is Phosban Iron Hydroxide or Iron Oxide ? I don't have any experience with Phosban, but if it's wet it's very probably hydroxide.

[tinnghe]

Does the HC actually worth the
money? How much do you put?

[GlassReef]

I use approx. 1 gram per gallon. As to whether it's worth the money - I can only speak for myself - definitely yes!

[vanillagorila]

well, after reading this thread. I stopped using (brand left out), turned the lights off for two days and all of my algae is almost completely gone.

[jjk_reef00]

vanillagorila just tell us what you used... I'm very curious.

[kc350twin]

Just ordered BRS. Wanted to see for myself.

[luther1200]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15618633#post15618633 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tinnghe
Does the HC actually worth the
money? How much do you put?


If you do the math the HC from BRS is actually way cheaper than ROWAphos.


For $54 you get 1000ml of ROWAphos.

For $69 you get 2lbs of BRS HC.

The 2 lb bag from BRS is easily way over 2000ml. So for another $15 you get over twice the amount that you would get buying ROWAphos. And if you get in on a group buy its even cheaper. I think I payed about $55 for 2lbs on a group buy just a few weeks ago.

[law086]

Hi folks,

I understand the desire to not bash any vendors, but if you've had poor results with a specific brand of GFO it would be really nice to hear which brands so that the rest of us could avoid problems. I was always under the impression that GFO was GFO, regardless of the brand.

[vanillagorila]

vanillagorila just tell us what you used... I'm very curious.I'd rather not say, but I will say that since I stopped using it. I am algae free and my tank has never looked better. I haven't done anything other than remove the gfo reactor.

[moondoggy4]

Thanks for this thread I just bought a used Deltic GFO so this will be very helpful.

[fishtime123]

I have used rowaphos for over two yrs never had a out break of hair alagae. I know your only supposed to trickle the water through it, Plus I rinse prior . I change it every month.

[luther1200]

Any updates GlassReef?

[PaxRoma]

I am also interested in the result because I have been using Rowaphos for awhile and my tank still have this black cyano/algae problem.

Is it possible that some bacterial (or other) contaminant could grow using the hydroxide as a medium? A rhetorical question, of course, but could some bacteria or mold, serve as a growth accelerator for algae?
Very unlikely unless you also add an organic carbon source at least.
That is not to say iron is not important for them. Some of the bad bugs you don't want to get needs iron that's why if you have a black blood clot from injuries make sure you rinse it out real well.

[cnaegler]

I read this thread back at it's inception and since i was having a HORRIBLE bout with HA for a year or so, and was using Rowa Phos, i thought i would try BRS' HC GFO. So, i purchased another Phosban reactor and began running the BRS HC GFO. I then manually removed all the HA i could with a toothbrush (many hours snorkeling in the tank) and so far so good. When i was running Rowa, the algae would almost immediately start growing back but i haven't seen any growback with the BRS product. Was it the Rowa causing the problem? Can't say for sure. It may just be that the extra phosban reactor helped, but i do believe, and this is just my .02, that the BRS product is superior to the Rowa. Plus, an added benefit is, you get more for your money. I won't be using Rowa anymore.

[GlassReef]

Any updates GlassReef?My algae is gone! Using a little less than 1 gram of HC per gallon. PO4 is at .01 ppm. I keep it there by feeding like crazy. :)

[luther1200]

Awesome! It almost makes you mad doesn't it? I know I couldn't believe it after I made the change. I fought that BWA crud for over 2 years. Then once I stopped using ROWAphos and started using BRS HC "POOF" it just went away,lol.

[BlueSeaDevil]

I paid $69 for my 1000ml of Rowaphos, and it was on sale.
Where do you get these deal bro.
I just started Rowaphos for a couple days to reduce PO4 because I was having an brown algea/diatoms, not you guys made me regret I didn't read this post earlier :) Now I'm putting my Rowaphos to waste and will be ordering HC GFO

If you do the math the HC from BRS is actually way cheaper than ROWAphos.


For $54 you get 1000ml of ROWAphos.

For $69 you get 2lbs of BRS HC.

The 2 lb bag from BRS is easily way over 2000ml. So for another $15 you get over twice the amount that you would get buying ROWAphos. And if you get in on a group buy its even cheaper. I think I payed about $55 for 2lbs on a group buy just a few weeks ago.

[luther1200]

Right on the web site.

Right on the link 2lbs for $54-$69.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Carbon-and-Phosphate-Remover-GFO-Phosphate-Remover-%28GFO%29-High-Capacity-GFO/c109_8_89/p432/2-pounds-%28907-Grams%29-High-Capacity-Granular-Ferric-Oxide/product_info.html


Here is 3lbs for $74-$89
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Carbon-and-Phosphate-Remover-GFO-Phosphate-Remover-%28GFO%29-High-Capacity-GFO/c109_8_89/p433/3-pounds-High-Capacity-Granular-Ferric-Oxide/product_info.html


If you get in on group buys you get a better price, from then on.

If you pony up the $174 for the 1 gallon (7 #) it comes out to $24 a pound.

[GlassReef]

I paid $69 for my 1000ml of Rowaphos, and it was on sale.
Where do you get these deal bro.
I just started Rowaphos for a couple days to reduce PO4 because I was having an brown algea/diatoms, not you guys made me regret I didn't read this post earlier :) Now I'm putting my Rowaphos to waste and will be ordering HC GFOI wouldn't start throwing away your RowaPhos until you actually see that it is not helping with your algae problem.

[luther1200]

I wouldn't start throwing away your RowaPhos until you actually see that it is not helping with your algae problem.

+1 I would at least give it a try if you have it already.

[kv69]

Used Rowa phos, had bad GHA problem, Switched to BRS GFO, the GHA is fading away. Thanks BRS.

[YoungREEFA]

can you get away without the HC ? what about doubling up on the granular.

[alazo1]

I use BRS's regular gfo. Anyone know if it's the same as the HC but just a bit weaker?. I'm have a HA problem and though the front glass is cleaner, the algae is still growing.

thanks,
Albert