Tank Bottom. Will this work?

[bdunla1]

Here is the deal. I am setting up a new 60 gallon cube (24x24x24) which will house primarily sps, clam, and a few fish. I don't really like the look of a bare bottom tank, but I need flow. With only 24" width, I'm afraid that sand storms will be unavoidable.

So, here is a thought and I would to know what you all think (good, bad, ugly). Basically, I am thinking of using "Great Stuff" foam on the BOTTOM of the tank and placing crushed coral or heavy grained sand on top to allow the foam to adhere itself to the substrate. This way, I can have the look of a natural bottom without too much shuffle from the flow.

I will have a 20g ref with aroung 5" sand for bio filtration. THoughts? Has anyone tried this?

[addicted2reefin]

if u go with a shallow sand bed the sandwill settle in time. just give it a few days. i dont think it would work to well with putting rock work onto, unless u put the rock in while it was still curing. it may be a little hard to get the right depth of foam as the stuff expands.
just my opinion

[Sisterlimonpot]

I would fear that it would trap detritus and eventually produce nitrates with no way to remove them.

[aquaboy620]

well i was thinking of ways to do both in the next tank that I create in the future when I get my own house. I was thinking of putting a 2 to 3 inch tall piece of acylic all the way across the tank and bonding it about 5 to 6 inches away from the front of the tank which would be my little sand box if you catch my drift. put sand in it and have the rockwork behind the acrylic wall. this way you can have a spray bar or a huge amount of flow under the rocks and still have sand or a beach look without the sandstorm. this way you can still clean the sand with ease and have the flow under the rocks. best of both worlds. just a thought though. what do you think? anybody ever try this? curious to know if it would work.

[bdunla1]

The fear of trapping detritus is really my biggest concern too, Sisterlimonpot. Do you think this will be a big deal if I ensure good flow across the bottom in the back to push water up the front? Rocks would also be elevated with pvc.

Addicted2reefn - Yes, I would add the crushed coral while the foam cures and is VERY sticky.

[username in use]

what if you did a closed loop with 2 or 3 outputs coming up from the bottom of the tank? This would give you the ability to up the flow, while keeping it moving up, as opposed to blowing down across the glass. Dont know if it will work, just a thought.

[bdunla1]

That may work... High movement going up and out with small/slower movement going across.... I do want to do a closed loop with an oceanmotion device; especially because it is a smaller footprint...

aquaboy620 - I did find this thread that looks like he is doing what you suggest, only using Great Stuff to create the wall. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1482007&goto=nextnewest

[Aqua Keepers]

The crushed coral will get covered in Coraline algae. So it's kind of pointless.

[crabbejoe]

Or what about forgetting the Great Stuff and just going with a large enough sized crushed coral that won't blow around.

[bdunla1]

Thanks for all of the info and thoughts! I believe I will go with the large cc.

Should I put a few inches of sand at the bottom and cover it with a couple inches of cc?

[Aqua Keepers]

I wouldn't bother with the CC. Just use the Special Grade Reef Sand

[KarlBob]

Sandstorms don't last forever. Even the finest sand will eventually settle down once a bacterial film begins to grow on it, provided that a powerhead/return is not directed straight at it.

[coralnut99]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15496162#post15496162 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aqua Keepers
The crushed coral will get covered in Coraline algae. So it's kind of pointless.

+1.

[Aqua Keepers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15505699#post15505699 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KarlBob
Sandstorms don't last forever. Even the finest sand will eventually settle down once a bacterial film begins to grow on it, provided that a powerhead/return is not directed straight at it.

I think a lot of SPS keepers with super flow would find this hard to agree with.

[Santoki]

If you don't mind bare exposed glass areas on the sand bed then it will work. Otherwise, it will be impossible to avoid sand relocating storms in a relatively small space with enough flow for SPS.
to address your "Great Stuff" idea:
That stuff WILL NOT stay put especially when used on the bottom. It will eventually detach from glass bottom and float up. The thicker the layer, the more it will want to float. I would stay away from that stuff.
In time, your tank bottom will be so overgrown with coralline and other stuff that it will not matter. I agree that the new BB look is kind of sterile, but IME it doesn't stay that way for long. If you want to shorten the amount of time it takes for the bottom to "encrust" you could use some rough ceramic tiles to line the bottom. You should begin to see coralline within a few weeks. Within a year, it will be completely covered.
This is less than a year of growth:
http://i31.*******.com/6zykg6.jpg

[KarlBob]

AquaKeepers - You could be right. I'm a softies/LPS guy, without much experience of hardcore SPS tanks.

Santoki, your tile picture gave me another idea for a "faux sandbed" project:

1) Cut tiles as needed to fit the entire bottom of your tank.
2) Spread reef-safe glue over the tiles. Cyanoacrylate should work, but may set too quickly to be practical. If you're patient, try silicone.
3) Pour sand/crushed coral/etc. over the glue.
4) After the glue dries, shake off the excess sand and place tiles in tank.

With multiple layers of tile, and silicone to smooth out the transitions, you could probably make pretty convincing "hills", if desired. Tiles and glue/silicone aren't likely to detach from the bottom and float up, no matter how long they're in the tank.

[ConsultantERP]

Based on my tank, which has Great Stuff (for windows and doors, doesn't expand near as much) I would have to disagree with most everyone above, All my rock is attached with GS(great stuff) and has been for about 6 months. Nothing has broken loose or become unattached from the bottom or sides. I will say that what is on the bottom typicall has a rock on top of it.

Don't bother spreading sand onto the GS, is not gonna stick unless you press it in.

GS is so solid from the standpoint of breaks or cracks that nothing is goin through it to the bottom.

Some have used epoxy paints to paint the GS, then spread sand over it to make it look more realistic, but a sandy rock is not (too me) a realistic look.

All I can say is, "It works for me", but I am only one so listen to others also.

I have also read the a TOTM sometime this year used GS.

Buy a can and experiment with something outside the tank, you might find you like it.

And also, sand storms don't last forever, they push all the sand to one side though.

[KarlBob]

ConsultantERP, it sounds like the difference is that the OP was talking about coating the entire bottom of the tank with GS, instead of attaching rocks to the bottom with it. A spot of GS with a rock above it has much less "lifting power" than, for instance, a 1" thick x 24" x 48" mat of GS.

Your post also makes me wonder whether GS might be another option for attaching frags to live rock, along with super glue gel and epoxy sticks.

[bdunla1]

Santoki - Never thought about tile... that looks good. Thanks for the pic.

KarlBob - I have heard that if using GS, you have to let it cure before placing it in the tank. I don't know how long the cure process is, but you may endanger the frag.

[KarlBob]

bdunla1 - Good point.

[Aqua Keepers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15516544#post15516544 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KarlBob
AquaKeepers - You could be right. I'm a softies/LPS guy, without much experience of hardcore SPS tanks.

Santoki, your tile picture gave me another idea for a "faux sandbed" project:

1) Cut tiles as needed to fit the entire bottom of your tank.
2) Spread reef-safe glue over the tiles. Cyanoacrylate should work, but may set too quickly to be practical. If you're patient, try silicone.
3) Pour sand/crushed coral/etc. over the glue.
4) After the glue dries, shake off the excess sand and place tiles in tank.

With multiple layers of tile, and silicone to smooth out the transitions, you could probably make pretty convincing "hills", if desired. Tiles and glue/silicone aren't likely to detach from the bottom and float up, no matter how long they're in the tank.

In time, this will get covered with Coraline as well.

[Santoki]

The point I'm trying to address is that no matter what you put on the bottom, it will eventually get covered with coralline. If you want to make hills on the bottom, you might as well just cover the glass bottom with some type of quickset cement and shape as needed. No need to put tiles in first. The only reason I used tiles was that they had a rough surface which makes it more hospitable for encrusting organisms, and in the case of any rock slides, it would provide some sort of protection for the glass bottom.

[tasos]

I did the same thing with the silicon and crashed coral.The result is that the coral pieces dettached from the silicon easilly, and I can see the silicon now.Also another dissadvantage is that there is always some dirt accumulating in the substrate, but in the case of the crashed coral it is there to see it.With the shallow sand bed it is hiding beneath the sand.
I am happy to can blow the detritus from the thin layer of crashed coral with a powerhead.It is going to the sump with a good flow from the overflow, so I can siphon it with water changes:) .
Last, coralline algae is covering everything that cannot move as the sand does!!

[KarlBob]

I agree that if you have sand grains attached to anything, they will eventually get covered with coralline. Anything that does not move, and has a texture that coralline can hang onto, will eventually get covered. The only way to permanently maintain a sandy-textured, sand-colored bottom is to have a sand bed.

The OP wanted to do an entire tank bottom sculpted of GS. It was pointed out that the GS would eventually detach from the glass and float to the surface. I saw the tile picture, and thought that tile would be a good, non-floating base for superglue and sand. I suppose you could skip the tile, spread superglue directly on the bottom of the tank, then pour sand over it before it dried.

It's true that quick-setting cement would probably be closest to the OP's original idea, because you can sculpt it the same way you would sculpt GS. As a bonus, cement that hasn't been smoothed often has a sandy texture. Sculpting the tank bottom from quick-setting cement would eventually result in the bottom of the tank being sand-textured, but coralline-colored.

The only reason sand beds don't turn coralline-colored is because the individual grains of sand can move. Sand grains frequently turn different faces to the light, scrape against each other, and scrape against other things (live rock, the walls of the tank, etc.). All of these events discourage or remove coralline, and none of them would happen if the sand grains couldn't move.