calling all BATTERY EXPERTS

[lovetoreef]

I am planning on using this inverter/charger to provide back up power for my return pump (tunze silence pump - uses 40 watts) ...
http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=314&EID=14617&txtModelID=2938


i am planning on using a deep cycle marine battery to power it, should i go with 2 100 AH batteries or one 200 AH battery?? obviously the cost goes up with the higher amperage battery and you lose some redundancy with only one battery, but it saves space - any suggestions?

[lovetoreef]

anyone??

[MrSandman]

Assuming that the specs' of the 2 batteries are identical (except for capacity) I don't think it makes much of a difference performance-wise.

The cost vs. size benefit is really your call.

[stugray]

One thing to caution you about: The spec says "PWM sine wave output voltage of 120 V A"

It doesnt mention "TRUE-SINE" which is an indicator of high quality output.

It might not drive AC pumps well.

You would have to ask the manufacturer.

Stu

[lovetoreef]

hmm, good point on the quality of outpu, i thought this was one that would give a true-sine wave ... i will have to contact the manufacturer - thanks.

[jcabatu]

this is very nice and a little on the overkill for only a 1/3rd of an amp. Go with 1-100amp hour battery and see what time you get out of it. if it meets your expectations, then you can decide if you should buy a second 100amp/hour battery. FWIW-don't "test" this too many times as you will ruin your battery.

[jcabatu]

I believe it is due to the fact that the power is being inverted that you will not have a true sine wave. and when treated like a UPS, it goes AC-DC-AC to motor.

[lovetoreef]

so does that mean it is not possible to obtain a ture sine wave to run the pump??

[dzhuo]

Have you consider this?

BRS backup battery (http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Plumbing-and-Pumps-Battery-Back-Up/c14_124/p811/Power-head-Battery-Back-Up-1200-(8-hour)/product_info.html)

Might be easier and cheaper?

[lovetoreef]

my concern with that is not being able to add batteries to it to extend the battery life if i need to

[Mike31154]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15507545#post15507545 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lovetoreef
so does that mean it is not possible to obtain a ture sine wave to run the pump??

True sine wave inverters are available, they tend to be 3 times the price of modified sine wave inverters. The link you provided for Tripplite didn't work for me, but if the price is less than $300, I suspect the unit uses a modified sine wave inverter.

[lovetoreef]

mike -

thanks - you are right - i have found a true sine wave inverter, but, as you said, they run around $1000 for an entry unit ... taking into consideration that this is an emergency type of situation where they will rarely be running on the inverter, will i do damage to the pump running it on a modified sine wave??

also, i found a fleet inverter/charger from an ambulance company - xantrex makes it - it appears to be a superior product to the one tripplite offers

[Mike31154]

No idea whether your pump will be damaged with a modified sine wave inverter. Short term it may run ok, it may not. If it does run, it will not do so efficiently and battery capacity will be diminished as well. Is it worth the risk to find out??

Before the day of the solid state inverter, there was an animal called the 'mechanical' rotary inverter, or motor generator if you will. Might be able to find one at your local surplus store. But these won't come with any automatic switching technology to sense a power loss, plus they're noisy and maintenance intensive, bearings, brushes etc. Might as well invest in a normal engine driven generator then, virtually all of these produce a true sine wave AC signal.

For the $1000 plus you're looking at for a modern solid state true sine wave inverter, you could get two VorTech MP40W propeller pumps with battery backups. Your return pump would get a break during power outages and your tank should be safe.

[lovetoreef]

hmm, good point ... i will have to re-evaluate this plan as i go - thanks.

[Bruno3047]

Here's what you need:

http://www.theinverterstore.com/the-inverter-store-product.php?model=pwric150012s

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02850131000P?vName=Automotive&cName=Batteries+%26+Chargers&sName=Marine+Batteries

Make sure that whatever battery you buy, it's AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) construction.

[Mike31154]

That's a nice looking inverter, with transfer switch, battery charger and all. Still, close to $600, then you need the batteries, fuses, cables. 1500watts isn't bad, but still pricey for that amount of power.

[lovetoreef]

well, still not 100% sold yet - i actually was able to purchase an inverter and charger combination that was from an ambulance ... it is everything i want but with a modified sine wave instead of a true sine wave ... it "only" cost me 140 shipped, but of course, i am still going to have to purchase the battery.

the issue at heart with the vortech setup is as follows ... i have owned 3 of them ... 2 of them purchased new - i was able to get them installed and working for a while, then, they would start to slip and get out of alignment ... of course, i went through customer service, and while they are a wonderful product, just not for me... so, i would love to try to find an alternative. i suppose i can try this inverter out on a pump and see how it responds and go from there.

[lovetoreef]

why is it so important to use a absorbed gel mat battery?? vs. a sealed lead acid battery??

[dvanacker]

The absorbed glass mat will probably mean that instead of the liquid acid being wet and floating around it is aborbed into glass mats (similar to insulation I assume). Means a more rugid battery and if it breaks....no dangerous mess.

[lovetoreef]

hmm, i could see how that would be helpful in a boat or rv, but, in this situation, the battery will be not be knocked around or anything along those lines ... any other reasons?? Thanks.

[dvanacker]

Non spillable.....no other advantage that I know of.

I always wondered if you could set up a car battery charger and battery along with an inverter. In theory...why couldnt you just buy the seperate components. Maybe it would be bad for the battery...not sure.

[Bruno3047]

When a regular lead acid battery is recharged, it gives off faint fumes. Outside, in a boat, car or RV, this is not an issue. Indoors it might be. The AGM battery does not release fumes when it is recharged.

[lovetoreef]

well, there you have it ... will a regular gel cell battery work or does it have to be agm ... the reason i ask is that i have seen 55 AH agm batteries, but, i am looking for something closer to 80 ah - thanks.

[Bruno3047]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15532647#post15532647 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lovetoreef
the reason i ask is that i have seen 55 AH agm batteries, but, i am looking for something closer to 80 ah - thanks.

Did you look at the Sears DieHard Marine Batteries at the link I previously posted?

[lovetoreef]

i did, but, i couldn't tell what the AH rating was on it?? also, can i use any charger to maintain that battery?? Thanks... it is nice it is through sears as i can save on shipping!

[Bruno3047]

This battery is rated 100 AH

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02850131000P?vName=Automotive&cName=Batteries+%26+Chargers&sName=Marine+Batteries#descriptionAnchor

This one is rated 68 AH

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02850134000P?vName=Automotive&cName=Batteries+%26+Chargers&sName=Marine+Batteries#descriptionAnchor

If you're not seeing the detailed description, click on the "Read Full Item Description" link. You will need a "trickle charger" if you're only using it to keep your battery charged over time.

[lovetoreef]

i still don't see an AH rating ... i see the cold crank rating, but, perhaps i have to convert that???

besides that, both batteries look like a perfect option - i think i will go with the larger one so i have some additional power supply. are there any wierd charger requirements or can i use any old battery charger

[Bruno3047]

Under "Specifications", click on "Read More Specifications".

[lovetoreef]

aha - sorry - pretty slow tonight .. so, any charger issues?? thanks for the help - that is a great point on the fumes and well worth the small amount of upfront cost

[Bruno3047]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15532740#post15532740 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lovetoreef
... so, any charger issues??

If you're just looking to keep the battery fully charged until you need it, you'll need a "trickle charger". This goes on and off automatically when it senses that the battery is not fully charged, etc.

[lovetoreef]

great - that is all i was looking at .... unit that do both - will charge it when it is run down and maintain it when fully charged - thanks agin.

[Bruno3047]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15532785#post15532785 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lovetoreef
thanks agin.

No sweat. Good luck.

[lovetoreef]

just to bring this back to life ... is this battery AGM construction ... i am looking for something to back up my vortech pump also - thanks... I read the icecap battery backup systems consist of an 18 ah sealed lead acid battery and trick charger ... so, why not spend less, get an AGM battery with battery tender/charger that is 80 AH and get much more bang for my buck.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02827494000P?vName=Automotive&cName=Batteries+%26+Chargers&sName=Marine+Batteries#specificationsAnchor

[Bruno3047]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15624607#post15624607 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lovetoreef
... is this battery AGM construction ...

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02827494000P?vName=Automotive&cName=Batteries+%26+Chargers&sName=Marine+Batteries#specificationsAnchor

Doesn't look like it. Looks like a standard sealed lead acid battery.

[fernandokng]

Check out this thread:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1673939&perpage=&pagenumber=2