View Full Version : OK need some help....
Here is a quick overvue could use some suggestions...
I have a 300 gallon tank that housed a
Gold Flake Angel
Achilles tang
Purple tang
Yellow tang
Cleaner Wrasse
2- Black and white clowns
They came down with ich really bad so I decided to tear the tank apart to get them out. I set up a 125 hospital tank from a person on Craigslist. The tank was set up Wed and was treated with Instant Ocean Bio Spira....The 125 has a Koralia 4 and 3 in it for flow along with an air stone. The filtration is an emporer 400 and a W/D filter with the bio balls in it. Now this tank was dry so the biological filtration was dead hence the reason I used the Bio Spira. We took the fish out Friday and placed them in the hospital tank. That night I added 130 drips of a product called Seacure. This is a copper treatment I was told works very well so I went for it. Well Saturday morning the yellow and purple tangs were dead. Saturday afternoon the Gold Flake Angel was dead and today the Achilles is laying on his side breathing really rapid...The clowns seem fine and so does the wrasse...I tested for amonnia and so far read 0 and copper test was .25 on the salifert kit.
WHAT THE HECK COULD HAVE HAPPENED??????
Tested the copper again this morning and it appears to have gone down. It appears to be between .10 and .25
Gwynhidwy
08/09/2009, 07:15 AM
Your fish likely died from the level of copper used. If I remember correctly the treatment concentration on that product is 0.15 mg/l, nearly half what you had.
It sounds like you did everything else correctly, so my guess is the copper level. It is also possible that the disease was responsible, but I'd bet on the copper.
For what it is worth, you might look into a product called Cupramine, made by Seachem. Fish are generally more tolerant of it and it is more stable in solution, and therefore easier to maintain the proper levels.
What number should I target to make sure the ich dies?
Gwynhidwy
08/09/2009, 01:39 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15498583#post15498583 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RBU1
What number should I target to make sure the ich dies?
That depends on the medication. You're best off following the directions on the bottle and then testing to make sure the level is where it should be and stays there.
Yeah I found that after I posted...Says to keep it in the .15 to .20 range and not to exceed .25....
My only problem is I am using a Salifert kit and I have a hard time telling the differences in the blue color. So I think I am in the .10 range and the wife thinks I am in the .18 range...
Is there any test kits for low range that are easy to tell were your level is?
The Seachem kit is a PITA.....I have that one also
Are you sure its Ich? Ich and Brooklynella are very difficult to tell apart unless you do a tissue sample and know what to look for under a microscope. The only product I know of that will cure both is 37% Formalin. Copper will not cure Brook. With Formalin you give baths. Fill a gallon container with the hospital tank water and put in an air stone. Put 1cc of 37% Formalin in the container. Now put several of you fish in the container and keep them there for up to 60 minutes. 45 minutes is OK but the longer the better. Treat the hospital tank with Revive, this will kill the swimmers in the tank but it will not kill eggs or the parasites on the fish. Give them a Formalin bath every other day for 5 days. Formalin evaporates in water; after 2 hours is no longer usable so you need a new mix for each bath. Using the hospital tank water you will have the right PH and temperature. This will cure the fish but not the tank they came out of. That has to remain fallow for 8 weeks. With part of the life cycle of Ich is its eggs which can remain dormant in the substrata for up to 8 weeks. Once they hatch they become swimmers and need to find a host within hours or die. With Brook, it multiplies by cell division and the new cell is a swimmer looking for a host. These swimmers can persist up to 4 weeks before they die. Do not use any equipment from the infected tank on your hospital tank. It could have eggs or swimmers on the equipment. Clowns are notorious for Brook so if the clowns are newly added that could be your problem. Good luck.
There is an error in my last post. You need to give your fish 5 Formalin baths, one everyother day. That would be 10 days, not 5 as I stated.
I'm not questioning your knowledge of the subject or you sincerity but I am curious; how are you "sure" its Ich? Did you do a post mortem on one of the dead fish? If there is a way to make sure its Ich, other then a tissue examination with a microscope, please share it with me.
wooden_reefer
08/10/2009, 05:45 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15498268#post15498268 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RBU1
Here is a quick overvue could use some suggestions...
I have a 300 gallon tank that housed a
Gold Flake Angel
Achilles tang
Purple tang
Yellow tang
Cleaner Wrasse
2- Black and white clowns
They came down with ich really bad so I decided to tear the tank apart to get them out. I set up a 125 hospital tank from a person on Craigslist. The tank was set up Wed and was treated with Instant Ocean Bio Spira....The 125 has a Koralia 4 and 3 in it for flow along with an air stone. The filtration is an emporer 400 and a W/D filter with the bio balls in it. Now this tank was dry so the biological filtration was dead hence the reason I used the Bio Spira. We took the fish out Friday and placed them in the hospital tank. That night I added 130 drips of a product called Seacure. This is a copper treatment I was told works very well so I went for it. Well Saturday morning the yellow and purple tangs were dead. Saturday afternoon the Gold Flake Angel was dead and today the Achilles is laying on his side breathing really rapid...The clowns seem fine and so does the wrasse...I tested for amonnia and so far read 0 and copper test was .25 on the salifert kit.
WHAT THE HECK COULD HAVE HAPPENED??????
You mentioned only fish. What else did your tank have? If you only had fish and plan to keep only fish you should never lose a single fish to ich. (You shouldn't anyway.) You could have treated the fish right in the DT.
I suppose yours is a tank with many other invertebrate, not much coral i suppose as the angel was not reef safe.
Starting treatment against ich too late is obviously one possibility.
Is Bio-Spira loaded with nitrification bacteria?
If your ammonia was really zero there should be no ammonia poisoning.
may be your test kit was not good and there was some decayable material in the old 125 gal tank.
Was there any sign of heavy "breathing" gill-plate movement when you started treatment? When ich has advanced to the stage of physiological impact on fish, it is frequently too late. When you start treatment when you see only a few dots and the fish eats well, ich is generally 100% curable.
Sorry about your losses.
I always quarantine for at least 8 weeks against ich, and during active stocking a tank, I always have a sack of active nitrification material of enough capacity to handle any situation as standby, if I need to isolate all my fish.
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