Now this is my new pair!

[gasman059]

Just wanted to share a couple of pics of my new pair. They are well and appear to be interested in food while in qt.
Male is about 3" and female 2-2.5".

Must likely they will remain there for another 3-5 weeks prior to going into my display. IMO a beautiful pair that is!
Enjoy I know I will!

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[gasman059]

I kind of did not wanted to post this pics not to jinx them but what the hell- I could'nt resist!

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http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n320/gasman059/8.jpg[/IMG] :D

[killaACES]

very nice looking pair, good luck with them!

[jmaneyapanda]

huzzah

[Bonta]

Amazing .

[snorvich]

Gorgeous. Congrats!!

[Mark]

Nice acquisitions!

[jmaneyapanda]

I recently trio-ized mine, after a failed first attempt. This time, I used a much smaller female, and it worked out. 6" male, 3.5" female, and 2" female.

[jnc914]

Congrats on the absolutely beautiful pair. I only have one False Personifer, but he is one of my favorites in the tank. Good luck with your acquisitions.

[lunner]

Very sexy

[agreeive?fish]

congrats on the pair one

[gasman059]

Thx I'm very satisfied with them. now the waiting game and off course a little bit of luck never hurts.

I've over the years on and off have kept many angels but have never come across personifiers that where paired up and this size so it was an easy decision.

[zemuron114]

you very likely have 2 females. A 3" male is unheard of for these angels (and any big angel really). It will probably change eventually but not until it hits at least 5" and probably closer to 6-7". It doesn't have any male coloration, which makes me think it is still a female.
Nice colors though on both of them. Its better to get them small so they grow together!

[BrianD]

Beautiful!

[Znut Reefer]

Very nice looking pair!

[Gary Majchrzak]

here's to hoping the post jinx fails :beer:

[gasman059]

Hahh Gary TYVM Sr.

[stunreefer]

Congrats Manny, gorgeous pair bro! :thumbsup:

[barnett8]

Awesome pair! :thumbsup:

Sorry for being the dense one... What are they?

[michael_cb_125]

"Sorry for being the dense one... What are they?"
Fish ;)

Great looking C. meredithi gasman! One of my favorite angels, and it is nice to see little ones.

~Michael

[Sugar Magnolia]

Wow, those are stunning!!

[LuvAngels88]

Very cute little pair. Good luck with them!

[melanotaenia]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15555502#post15555502 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barnett8
Awesome pair! :thumbsup:

Sorry for being the dense one... What are they?

false personnifers

[gasman059]

Wo getting into a bruhaha IMHO it is impossible at least for me to differentiate them when they r this small.Need to wait to decide between try or false.

[gasman059]

Hey John help me out u freak lol(in a good way)

[jmaneyapanda]

What are you asking? Sexing or species?

[Rogger Castells]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15557338#post15557338 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmaneyapanda
What are you asking? Sexing or species?
I think he is asking for species, they are suppose to be personifers (true)

[barnett8]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15555572#post15555572 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by michael_cb_125
"Sorry for being the dense one... What are they?"
Fish ;)

Great looking C. meredithi gasman! One of my favorite angels, and it is nice to see little ones.

~Michael

Ha ha ha.:rolleyes: Thanks. :)

[michael_cb_125]

You know I was just messin' wit' Yah'.

"I think he is asking for species, they are suppose to be personifers (true)"

I am pretty sure these are C. meredithi. And he was talking about the sex.

~Michael

[jmaneyapanda]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15558229#post15558229 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rogger Castells
I think he is asking for species, they are suppose to be personifers (true)

They are most defintiely not true personifers. Coming across, no less two paired, is extremely difficult here in the US. True personifers are collected in the North Western parts of Australia (where theres not a lot a collection). Unless he paid a HUGE amount, I would guarantee they are C. meredithis, not C. personifer.

Regarding male or female, At best, I would say a subadult male.

[SnookSlayer08]

Nice looking pair of angels regardless! Hope they live a long and happy life in your tank.

[SnookSlayer08]

Nice looking pair of angels regardless! Hope they ive a long and happy life in your tank.

[gasman059]

Its my understandung as stated above that it truly depends on collection area- number one

As far as sizing again correct me if I'm wrong but its kind of difficult to determine unless they are larger than their current size.

Now a true personifier will have a banded tail versus a false with a yellow one, but again at this size its hard to say(since both are identical)

All in all its hard to say at this size and furthermore collection site is still uncertain to me for this two.

[jmaneyapanda]

Unless you paid $2000 or so for the pair, Id say dont hold your breath. There is a much longer and more involved chain of custody for true personifers, so they have to sell for more. I guess its possible, but in my mind, exteremely unlikely.

[gasman059]

;) ;) Now it would really suck to pay that $ and for them to be flase wouldn't it - I'm turning blue and Hypoxic at this timeLOL

[tcmfish]

I think you are right that it is hard to determine at this size, but unless you know where they were collected they are probably 99% Chaetodontoplus meredithi.

If you know they were collected in western australia and are pretty sure they are true personifers then you probably paid quite a bit more...

[Fish2reef]

Can't help you with ID but I can tell you "Beautiful Fish"

[melanotaenia]

with the rarity of the Personnifer in the trade I highly doubt this would be a pair of true Personnifers, which IMO are much better looking.

Good looking pair though, hope they do well for ya.

[Brandon M]

Beautiful fish! I've always wanted one. Good luck with them and thanks for sharing! :cool:

[criccio]

A LFS got in a "pair" as well, only slightly larger, they are very nice.

[copps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15557101#post15557101 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gasman059
Hey John help me out u freak lol(in a good way)

Okay you pain in the ____! ;) Hey Manny, check out this article... (http://glassbox-design.com/2008/rare-fish-true-chaetodontoplus-personifer-hits-japan/) Here's what I wrote about the difference... "The major distinguishing characteristic is the tail, but the kicker is that small specimens of both species have an all yellow tail, and are identical in every way. These two species are obviously of common origin, but have speciated enough to be separate species according to most ichthyologists… The reason for this is the Gulf of Carpentaria… that large bay you could see in North Australia… The bay is quite turbid and neither species now inhabit it. C. personifer is found to the West of the Gulf and C. meredithi to the East of the Gulf… In the past one species probably inhabited the entire range from the Indian Ocean side to the Pacific side of Australia, much like C. duboulayi does. Separation equals speciation, and it’s probably only been a couple million years or less… Another difference between the species is that C. personifer grow about four inches larger than C. meredithi."

Now, having known who imported these fish, and what they came in with, and what the importer paid out of Australia, these are 100% C. meredithi. Of course there is the chance that these were collected in West Australia, shipped to East Australia, and sold at meredithi prices to be exported, but as Wayne Campbell says in "Wayne's World", there is also a chance that "monkeys might fly out of my butt". :D Importer friends I know in both Asia and Europe have brought true personifers in recently, but I am unaware of any hitting the US yet. The few collectors in West Australia are spoiled collecting corals they're getting good money for, and are too lazy to chase fish... why would they when the corals don't move and don't die like fish? Hopefully this will soon change... God knows I'm trying... but honestly, both species are beautiful fish and very similar... for that reason the first few true personifer will be marginally expensive, but not excessively (look at the small ones from Asia in the above link)...

Oh, and on the note of them being a "pair"... they are as much a pair as you and Rogger were when I met up with you guys... in that you guys were two **** sapiens in the same room that weren't killing eachother... :D They are however both still most likely female, unlike you and Rogger, unless you have a secret you've been keeping... Most all of these "pairs" are put together after collection by exporters/importers as Chaetodontoplus are easier to mix than some other genera...

Good luck with the two though Manny! We need more people keeping things together to see what will happen... those are beautiful fish!

Copps

[Recty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15564097#post15564097 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by copps
in that you guys were two **** sapiens in the same room that weren't killing eachother. Not to get too far off subject but dont you love internet filters? This line reminded me of Jimmy Kimmel's "Unnecessary Censorship" part of his show :)

[copps]

Great... my post got censored for mentioning our own genus!:D

[Sheol]

LOL. Truly funny in an unitended way.
You guys just have to keep rubbing salt in my wounds don't you? Every time something rare turns up, its here in .05 nanoseconds!!!

Matthew

[myerst2]

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[flameangel88]

okay, i'll take the one in the middle.

[myerst2]

That would be half the price!!!! I agree completely. If you want to spend the extra coin on a true personifer than you either love the hard to get, "definately not rare in this case" or like to show off. T

[gasman059]

Hey John thx !I think I read that article sometime ago.

As far the the pair thing well I was'nt the one divimg after fishies with a renowned author lol.

J/k buddy and thx again for the info as usual.

[tcmfish]

This genus is crazy. Scott Michael's book Angelfishes and Butterflyfishes states that there is a heron island personifer variant too and it looks to have a muddy tail. Also it seems the yellow anterior section of the tail fills in, in the true personifers leaving only the thin yellow section similar to a convex lens.

Also in Angelfishes of the World it states that there is a western colorform for C. duboulayi too, which has an orange band instead of yellow.

Plus all the other hybrids and colorforms... melanosoma, vanderloosi (which has two tail colorations too), and dimidiatus.... C. mesoleucus also has two tail colorations....the maze, orangeface, blueline ordeal.

Can anyone tell I'm loving my new books!:)

[copps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15565720#post15565720 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tcmfish
C. mesoleucus also has two tail colorations....

Not for long! :)

[Dejavu]

Great pick up!

[Rogger Castells]

Well, I guess this settles it, they are not true personifers, but 2 million years ago they probably were, they are not a true pair but in the future they might paired up!........oh! and now Manny appears to be my female.
On the the lighter note I must report that the fish are been kept in my sump, and hey are doing great, they started eating mysis a few days ago and are now eating my own food.

[gasman059]

LMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tcmfish]

John please explain... :)

[copps]

Explain what? :)

[Ian]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15564097#post15564097 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by copps
...as Wayne Campbell says in "Wayne's World", there is also a chance that "monkeys might fly out of my butt". :D


You love that quote, don't you John :lol:

[tcmfish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15566582#post15566582 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by copps
Not for long! :)

Referring to C. mesoleucus.

[amore169]

Very nice.

[massman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15564097#post15564097 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by copps
The few collectors in West Australia are spoiled collecting corals they're getting good money for, and are too lazy to chase fish...

I object to this statement mate :D
Too lazy is not appropriate, otherwise indisposed is better.:p

[copps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15570461#post15570461 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rogger Castells
now Manny appears to be my female.


Post a recent pic of Manny and I'll see if he's changed recently... :D

Congrats on the fish by the way Rogg!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15571845#post15571845 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ian
You love that quote, don't you John :lol:

hhhhhaaaa-yeah! (said in my best Wayne Campbell voice...

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15572484#post15572484 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tcmfish
Referring to C. mesoleucus.

There was a recent paper accepted but not yet published... when it goes public I'll elaborate... :)

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15573416#post15573416 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by massman
I object to this statement mate :D
Too lazy is not appropriate, otherwise indisposed is better.:p

You're in East Australia aren't you? :D Besides, I'll retrack my statement when you send me some true personifers! :p

[gasman059]

Congrats on the fish by the way Rogg
NOT his lol he's just feeding them and keeping them fat and healthy until they come to my tank.
Lemme find a pic for u- :rolleyes:

[Rogger Castells]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15574422#post15574422 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by copps
Post a recent pic of Manny and I'll see if he's changed recently... :D

Congrats on the fish by the way Rogg!


John, his avatar is his most recent picture, this is the only other picture I can find of Manny, second from right to left.....what can I tell you! :D these Med students really know how to have fun!



http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v148/99/83/692371855/n692371855_424039_1464.jpg

[copps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15574586#post15574586 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gasman059
NOT his lol he's just feeding them and keeping them fat and healthy until they come to my tank.
Lemme find a pic for u- :rolleyes:

Oh... I guess he hadn't told you yet... :p just kidding... I was congratulating him on getting your fish eating Manny... I know they are yours!:)

Rogg... nice shot! A spawning harem?:lmao:

[gasman059]

LOL- having some fun with FB -- having a little time in your hands.
:eek1:

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[massman]

You're in East Australia aren't you? :D Besides, I'll retrack my statement when you send me some true personifers! :p

Live in Perth, Western Australia.
Spend half my time fishing the West Coast with a guy who has a licence here. The other half, I'm in Cairns, fishing my licence.
Best of both worlds.

Used to collect a fair few personifers from a certain area, couple of crocodiles scared the **** out of me though :eek:

Have to find new areas.
C. marginalis and scribbles are easier, rockpool wading at low tide.:smokin:

[copps]

Very cool... Do scribbled or personifers range all the way down to Perth? Is there a difference in coloration in the West Coast scribbled?

Sorry for the jack Manny, but I know you're interested in this stuff too! :)

[gasman059]

John thx for getting d thread back on track

[massman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15578692#post15578692 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by copps
Very cool... Do scribbled or personifers range all the way down to Perth? Is there a difference in coloration in the West Coast scribbled?

Sorry for the jack Manny, but I know you're interested in this stuff too! :)

John,
Scribbles and personifers do not penetrate far south at all really. Nowhere near Perth. South of Exmouth it gets pretty scarce. We do get the odd tropical fish that ride the Leeuwin Current down to Perth in summer (usually wrasse and a couple of butterflies and damsels), but I've never seen or heard of an angel. With the exception of a couple of Keyholes.
You get the odd straggler around the Abrohlos Islands which has their furthest south landmass abeam with Geraldton (about 400 km north of Perth).

Personifers are most abundant around Broome and further north. They are usually found in muddy waters inhabiting sponge beds and rubble bottoms. Visibility is never more than 2-3 meteres (less than 10ft).
Really uncomfortable diving, there's not much else around, except a few scribbles, tiger and bull sharks, and crocs.
We used to get A LOT of personifers and scribbles from a few of the trawlers up there, however, fisheries knocked that on the head, forcing the trawlers to throw them back overboard.

Scribbles are then most abundant a lot further south off Exmouth. However, the tree huggers keep amending the boundary of Ningaloo Marine Park to try to further extend the no collect area. A real pain in the a$$.

However, we keep battling on, tying to find new areas. However, as you mentioned, there is a lot of coral to be had, which makes the project far more viable.

As far as differences go between the scribbles, there aren't a lot really. Certain fish have far more defined markings, and iridescent blue colouration, but that is found on both sides.
What I have found though, is that juvies on the east coast tend to be in much deeper water than the west coast. We collect a lot 1-4" specimens that are left in rock pools as the tides go out.
Broome surrounds are most fruitful. King tides of 9 metres are not uncommon, and you almost have to run to avoid getting smashed. LOTS of 4wd guys lose their cars to the incoming tide. Sometimes their lives with it. :(

[massman]

.

[gasman059]

thx for d info!

[myerst2]

Great info!!!! Can you possibly share any personal info in regards to conspiculatus and ballinae? Thanks, Tim

Again sorry for the continuation of the hijack. But the man has info I need!!!!! Update on the fish???

[gasman059]

Tim no worries- interested myself.

[gasman059]

Update on the fish???
Well all seems to be well prety fiesty fish, not shy at all and eating pretty much everything that goes into my tank.

I had them eating two days after arrival. And now they eat pretty much anything but pellets.
Here's what I used to get them eating- Great stuff.
www.roggersreeffood.com

Here's a vid from my phone enjoy- cause I am.

They live in here with some changes in terms of corals and tank mates. I've takensome colonies out in favor of frags and tankmates include a yellow/a scopas hybrid/a majestic/4line/rabbit/sandsifter/
The black tang went to a bigger home(375 of a friend as well as the MI)
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[gasman059]

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[gasman059]

LOL can't seem to post this thing straight for humans to c o well.

[massman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15583250#post15583250 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by myerst2
Great info!!!! Can you possibly share any personal info in regards to conspiculatus and ballinae? Thanks, Tim

Again sorry for the continuation of the hijack. But the man has info I need!!!!! Update on the fish???

Sorry, just noticed this!

The conspics are found much further south then where I collect.
I dive off Cairns/Port Douglas which is in far North Queensland. Conspics and Ballinae are off the New South Wales coast, although I have heard reports of guys getting conspics as far north as Brisbane and the Sunshine coast. This is still about 2000 km south of where I dive!

The Ballinae was first sighted off the town of Ballina, which is about 200km south of Brisbane.
Since then it has only been seen at Ball's Pyramid, which is a rocky outcrop off Lord Howe Island. This is a fully protected, world heritage area.

So in answer to your question, I personally have never seen a Ballinae, however, once whilst diving off Seal rocks (about 3 hours north of Sydney) I saw several conspics over a couple of days diving.
Sizes from 2" to 8"+. I didn't collect though, as I had no permit. :(