Help with plumbing a sump/refugium....picture

[AquaWave523]

Original Idea:
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/221909sump.GIF

Plumbing plan:
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/221909plan.GIF

Ok, this is the idea here. I finally got my 40 gallon breeder sump tank and I need help with buying the right parts.

I had drawn out the plan in my head for plumbing layout. I just need to buy the right parts. I have the Mega Flow Drilled...which is about 1" for the vinyl tube fitting.

Anyone can offer some help here on parts?

Thanks!
AW523

[troylee]

Well as jim would say your return is hitting a brickwall and gonna kill the flow.....spin the tee for the refugium so it goes through it, not into a brick wall....or dead end...:lol:

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15563276#post15563276 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by troylee
Well as jim would say your return is hitting a brickwall and gonna kill the flow.....spin the tee for the refugium so it goes through it, not into a brick wall....or dead end...:lol:

Make sure you use quotes when quoting me troylee. Original plan is the way to go.

Jim

[AquaWave523]

oops forgot to include that, but thats the idea! LOL

[uncleof6]

This oughta give you some ideas on the parts you will need.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu274/uncleof6/sump3-1.jpg

J

[troylee]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15563345#post15563345 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
Make sure you use quotes when quoting me troylee. Original plan is the way to go.

Jim
Like this???:rolleyes:







:p

[uncleof6]

snickers..there is an X by your name on the calender today....

[AquaWave523]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15563362#post15563362 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
This oughta give you some ideas on the parts you will need.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu274/uncleof6/sump3-1.jpg

J


Thanks JIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's exactly what I needed. What program are you using to draw that diagram?

[der_wille_zur_macht]

It's Sketchup, a free 3D design tool that Google publishes:

http://sketchup.google.com/

For the record, I agree with Jim's recommendation on your plumbing. In addition to turning the T such that the return line to the tank runs through straight, I would suggest being careful about your drain plumbing. You are showing vinyl hose from the tank bulkhead down to the PVC in the sump. That's fine, but go oversize! In other words, if you have a 1" bulkhead for your drain line, DON'T use 1" pvc and hose. If you were to do that, you'd be using 1" barbed nipples to transition between the pvc and hose, which are very restrictive. Instead, immediately below the drain bulkhead, use a bushing to bump the PVC up to 1.5", then go to 1.5" hose.

Hope that makes sense. . .

[AquaWave523]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15563496#post15563496 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by der_wille_zur_macht
It's Sketchup, a free 3D design tool that Google publishes:

http://sketchup.google.com/

For the record, I agree with Jim's recommendation on your plumbing. In addition to turning the T such that the return line to the tank runs through straight, I would suggest being careful about your drain plumbing. You are showing vinyl hose from the tank bulkhead down to the PVC in the sump. That's fine, but go oversize! In other words, if you have a 1" bulkhead for your drain line, DON'T use 1" pvc and hose. If you were to do that, you'd be using 1" barbed nipples to transition between the pvc and hose, which are very restrictive. Instead, immediately below the drain bulkhead, use a bushing to bump the PVC up to 1.5", then go to 1.5" hose.

Hope that makes sense. . .

Thanks for your input, but now I'm lost. :(

I will keep my vinyl hose simply because thats what connects the tank to the sump tank. and I have more room for error when using pvc.

[uncleof6]

Is ok to use the vinyl hose, just use larger hose..... barb fittings for hose are restrictive, this restriction messes with the dynamics of your drains. Best recommendation is spaflex (flexible pvc hose)

Jim

[AquaWave523]

so............

MAG 9 --> PVC --> Vinyl hose --> Tank

I should get a 2" bulk head which the PVC can fit in and also the 1" for the bulk head?

Ok now im confuesd....please clarify

[AquaWave523]

Ok, I went to Home Depot today and could not find the part that connects the vinyl tube to the PVC. The employees there seem confused when I try to explain what I'm trying to do.

Here's pictures of my 40 gallon breeder sump for my 90 gallon tank. All suggestions and feedback are welcome.

If someone can show some pics of the parts I would need, it would be very helpful.


Thanks,
AW523


http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/221909tube.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/221909sump2.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/221909tubebulk.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/221909bulkhead.jpg

[wantacookie]

How does water get into the fuge?

[AquaWave523]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15567096#post15567096 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wantacookie
How does water get into the fuge?

Right now it doesn't, that's why I'm posting this. I need help setting up the T-line to the Refugium.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Ok, easier to understand now. From the looks of it, your drain line is fine, no need to change that - I thought we were talking about vinyl and PVC on the drain line, but from the picture and your last comment, is it correct to guess that you're only worried about re-plumbing the return back to the tank? If so, diameter is a little less critical. It's very important to design a drain line without restrictions or complications, since that can be a safety and reliability issue. However, return lines are a little less critical - if you design a return line with lots of restrictions, you'll just get less flow. Not ideal, but not the end of the world, and it won't make your tank overflow (like a poorly designed drain can!)

It looks like you have a PVC union and ball valve on the outlet from the return pump. Then, a barbed PVC nipple, to which the 3/4" vinyl hose is attached. The other end of the hose is attached to another 3/4" PVC nipple, threaded into the return bulkhead on your tank.

The simplest way to plumb in the 'fuge would be to add a PVC T between the pump and the ball valve that you have. Add it so the return to the tank is along the "straight" leg, and the line to the 'fuge is off the side. Then, use a short piece of 3/4" PVC pipe, and a 45 or 90, then another short piece of pipe, to get water over into the 'fuge. Make sense? Look at uncle's drawing above. You want to do the same thing, except you'll be using the vinyl hose above the T on the run back to the tank.

That would give you a functional system, though not totally ideal, since 3/4" plumbing is a little small for the mag pump you're using (Danner specs 1.5" for that pump.) Again though, if it works, it works - you'll be loosing a bit of flow, but that might not be a terrible thing, since your drain back to the sump can only handle so much. If you were to redesign the return line to the tank to be ultra-efficient, you'd probably find that you had to throttle the pump back to prevent it from overpowering the drain.

[AquaWave523]

I got everything but the throttle the pump part to be extra efficient.

If I change my Mag 9 to a Mag5 would that be beneficial?

Is there a real problem using a Mag 9 here? Sounds like I'm paying more for electricity here.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

No need to worry about if the pump is 100% matched to your situation. If it's working, you're set. Just splice the T in, run some flow to your 'fuge, and forget about it. :)

[sfboarders]

Look at this (http://www.melevsreef.com/return.jpg) photo and make your setup the same. Didn't you post this same question on another board?

[AquaWave523]

OK! The T-line is now in full effect...but question, I used PVC cement and primer to glue the PVCs together. How long before I can connect the PVCs and start the sump pump?

I assume the PVC cement is safe.

[uncleof6]

When you cannot smell the glue anymore....... usually 24 hours or more. For future reference, due to the low pressures in aquarium systems, the primer is a waste of time and money.

Jim

[AquaWave523]

Darn it....its been sitting over night and i can still smell the glue..the smell has not lessen.

I want to set this up soon...the pipes are seal and strong. It mentioned 2 hours to fully cure.....i ran the water through the tubes for minutes at a time and still the smell is there.

Will the glue smell go away?

[d2mini]

Why do you T off the return pump to get water to the fuge instead of T'ing off the drain line? Just curious.

My drain line has a T with a valve that sends about 20% of my water to the fuge and the rest falls into the protein skimmer section. Then both drain in to the return.

http://d2creative.smugmug.com/photos/438148619_QLzo4-XL.jpg

[AquaWave523]

I personally like it to tee off the refugium because it's cleaner water that has gone through the filter pads/protein skimmer and back into the display tank

[der_wille_zur_macht]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15573439#post15573439 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by d2mini
Why do you T off the return pump to get water to the fuge instead of T'ing off the drain line? Just curious.

My drain line has a T with a valve that sends about 20% of my water to the fuge and the rest falls into the protein skimmer section. Then both drain in to the return.

http://d2creative.smugmug.com/photos/438148619_QLzo4-XL.jpg

While either method will work, there are some practical and philosophical differences.

T'ing off drain lines can cause complications in terms of drain performance and noise, especially if you are near the limit of your standpipe's capacity. Also, T'ing off the drain line sends "raw" water to the skimmer and the 'fuge, while some people feel it is more effective to skim water, then send it to the 'fuge (which is what you're essentially doing when you T off the return pump.)