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View Full Version : Regarding the new article about Halichoeres melanurus


Korrine
09/04/2009, 03:40 PM
Is there a collection area that is more ideal due to more humane collection methods?

For example; Live aquaria lists Indonesia, Cebu and Fiji as it's collection points.

Thanks for your insight into this :) I do not wish to support bad collection practices.

pwhitby
09/04/2009, 03:46 PM
In all honesty, I do not know the practices of the individual collectors so I can not give you a factual answer. What i do know is that the older methods of cyanide dosing are not common anymore and fish are generally caught by the tried and tested method of netting.

Sorry I can not be more specific.

Paul.

Korrine
09/04/2009, 03:47 PM
ok thank you for the article. Very insightful :)

Sloeber
09/08/2009, 12:59 PM
Why no photos of a female? Surely you had females in your aquarium when you added 4 juveniles... ?

pwhitby
09/08/2009, 09:17 PM
There is no mystery. In the article I state that I gave 2 away, leaving 2. One of the two remaining died along the way. leaving one. A male.

Sloeber
09/08/2009, 09:21 PM
Huh? Who even mentioned a mystery?

Ok let me try this again...

Why no photos of a female melanarus?

pwhitby
09/08/2009, 09:48 PM
Because I do not have a female melanurus.

Sloeber
09/10/2009, 04:04 AM
Next time you may wish to track an image down from the RC membership ;)

In this case feel free to use mine -

http://www.thelifeof.saltyendeavors.com/images/aquarium/fish/melanarus1.jpg

HTH

flamron
09/14/2009, 12:20 PM
Ordered a Hoeven's Wrasse today - will be here wednesday. I will post pics of it once I get a chance.

pwhitby
09/14/2009, 01:50 PM
Im sure you will like it, please post the pics in this thread,

Thanks,

paul.

Korrine
09/14/2009, 02:43 PM
I can't wait to eventually get one. Looks like a colorful great fish.

pwhitby
09/14/2009, 02:52 PM
They are extremely well colored, and there are quite a few look alikes such as the ornate, christmas and pink face wrasse.

They are all suitable and do much the same job.

Paul.

flamron
09/18/2009, 01:20 PM
Paul, I have a question for you.

I've had the hoeven's wrasse (melanarus) for three days now. He is still not accustomed to my lighting schedule, as he is out early in the morning, and then to bed he goes. Very pretty fish, and much larger than I anticipated he would be (about 3.5" already).

Here is my question. My LFS has aquired a Christmas wrasse (ornatimuss?). Would these two be compatible in my 75? Would I need to feed them more?

Current fish list:
2 Ocellaris
Royal Gramma
Diamond Goby
Pygmy (Cherub) Angel
Kole Tang
Hoeven's Wrasse

Would I be able to support them both? I really like how striking they both are, and would love to place them both in my tank. I have read that the halichoeres genus can co-exist, but I was wondering if you had any experience with that.

Thanks,

flamron
09/18/2009, 01:23 PM
Here is a photo of the Christmas Wrasse from the LFS. Can you also confirm (if you are familiar enough) that this is a halichoeres ornatimuss. The pictures online aren't similar.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/flamron/ChristmasWrasse.jpg

Not sure why the image isn't showing up properly

Sloeber
09/18/2009, 01:29 PM
Xmas and melanrus won't be compatible in a 75g.

The good news is your LFS does not have an Xmas. That is a Leopard. The two fish should co-exist, but a Leopard has its own host of problems. I wrote this column awhile back, it should be of assistance. HTH

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-07/hcs3/index.php

pwhitby
09/18/2009, 01:33 PM
That isnt a halichoeres species, note the lack of facial striping.

It looks more like a Macropharyngodon, actually looks like Macropharyngodon geoffroy. have a look at this page:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/macropharyngodon.htm

as you will see, there are some similarities between Macropharyngodon and Halichoeres. However, my experience with Macropharyngodon is that they can be hard to acclimate and dont readily accept flake and other prepared or frozen foods.

I love the Macropharyngodons though- they are very striking.

I have had several halichoeres look a likes (ornate, hoevens) at the same time. They fought but soon settled. I do however have a 600g tank so add more with caution.

HTH,

paul.

pwhitby
09/18/2009, 01:36 PM
LOL..seems like Henry and I agree on the identity....certainly a leopard. As for which leopard....really need a better image.

I also agree, that in 75g, 2 christmas or 2 hoevens wont work out well. i would though suggest the golden halichoeres (sometimes called yellow coris, or banana wrasse). these stay smaller and are very placid and easy to keep.

P.

Sloeber
09/18/2009, 01:39 PM
It's a female M. ornatus

HTH

flamron
09/18/2009, 01:39 PM
Glad I asked! I was going to purchase him Sunday. Looks like I will not now.

Appreciate the quick replies guys!

flamron
09/18/2009, 01:41 PM
I will try to get a pic of my melenarus tonight too!

flamron
09/18/2009, 05:44 PM
:(

Found my hoeven's dead when I got home.

Anything I can do with the next one to help survival rate? I followed swf.com acclimation to the tee.

thanks,

Korrine
09/18/2009, 05:45 PM
aw man sorry about the loss :( Really sux

pwhitby
09/20/2009, 10:29 AM
Thats a real shame Ronnie,

Any ideas on why?

Paul.

flamron
09/20/2009, 10:56 AM
I haven't got a clue. Acclimation went well, he popped into the sand after swimming around for a few minutes. My wife saw him the next two mornings before the lights came on, swimming and picking on the rock. I saw him tucked under a rock when I got home the third day and the one crab I have in the tank was dining on him.

The angel I added at the same time is doing fine, as is the brittle star. Maybe it was just too much stress with shipping?

Hoping the next one I get does better. That is actually the first fish I have ever had die in tank. I've had a couple jump, but never had one die in the tank. I'm really bummed.

I'm waiting to hear back from the vendor I bought it from. They have a 15 day guarantee, so I can at least replace it for shipping only most likely.

Korrine
09/20/2009, 07:29 PM
Glad you have a guarantee.

I just came home w/one today.

pwhitby
09/20/2009, 11:25 PM
Pictures Korrine.....pictures.

Korrine
09/21/2009, 06:11 AM
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg200/kj23502/sw%20tank/009-2.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg200/kj23502/sw%20tank/004-1.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg200/kj23502/sw%20tank/007.jpg

Please tell that's what he is :) lol. He's in my 10g qt at the moment.

Korrine
09/21/2009, 06:12 AM
That's weird. I copied the image codes, but it won't pop up the image. Just has a link???

flamron
09/21/2009, 06:33 AM
I would say that is a melanurus. Likely a female, but don't quote me on that.

Do you have any sand in your QT? These fish absolutely need sand to adjust properly. You can just stick a bowl of sand in your QT for now.

Great looking fish.

Paul - I've been reading the thread on flukes, does this species typically come in with flukes as well, or are they "imune"?

I went down yesterday and looked at the leopard wrasse the LFS has. She was out, but not eating prepared food. It was picking at the glass. They don't have any live foods, but they fed her quite a bit and she seemed to respond to the food, but she didn't eat any of it. I told them to get it eating prepared food and I would take it home. I think it is a really beautiful fish.

I'm definitely getting another hoeven's too. When did wrasses become cocaine?!? LOL

Korrine
09/21/2009, 06:45 AM
one of the pictures has a bowl of sand in it :)

I wish the picture would've shown up instead of just have the link...that's weird.

Anyway, yes I'm interested in what to do for flukes or should I feed something that would clean out any intestinal worms or anything like that. Def don't want to infect my tank w/that stuff. Esp since I have a Potter's Angel now.

flamron
09/23/2009, 10:27 PM
Any updates Korrine? Did yours find the bowl?

I am getting my second one on Friday. Hopefully this one will be a success.

Paul - any knowledge on the fluke thing? I have interceptor that I apparently has prazipro in it. Would that do anything for the flukes?

Thanks,

pwhitby
09/23/2009, 10:48 PM
Sorry..

Im not really sure regarding flukes. I have used prazipro with tangs, I have never had that issue with the wrasses and I have had LOTS of wrasses. When i did use prazi I soaked food pellets in it and administered them slowly. The tangs (and the wrasse) will gobble the theraA pellets up.

Btw-hows the leopard wrasse- did it ever eat.

flamron
09/24/2009, 06:27 AM
Not sure on the leopard. It wouldn't eat Sunday, and they haven't called me to let me know it is eating, so I assume it hasn't yet.

Korrine
09/27/2009, 10:46 PM
I was actually getting quite nervous since my wrasse hadn't been seen for several days after it found the sand (found it maybe an hour or two after I put it in). I poked the sand to make sure it wasn't dead and it came flying out swimming around frantically...ok probably a big mistake on my part :(

It actually stuck to the power head a few times. It did jerk itself and didn't require manual removal...thank god. I had been gone for the weekend (Huskers 300th consecutive sellout + homecoming all in the same game!!! Plus I got a picture w/the hot record setting kicker!!! whoop whoop!).
Anyways...back on track. I just got home and my hubby said it had been out and swimming around!!! YAY!! I'll see if it'll eat tomorrow. Out and about on it's now and NOT stuck to the power head is a GOOD thing!!!

flamron
09/28/2009, 06:28 AM
Mine keeps getting sucked up to powerheads too. There probably aren't too many powerheads in the ocean, though.

Good luck and hope it eats for you.

Korrine
09/28/2009, 08:33 PM
YAY!!! it came out and ate some frozen marine mix. It's still pretty skittish and hides around the rocks, but at least it's out and ate a bit :)

flamron
09/28/2009, 08:42 PM
Mine is staying up later now. He went to bed at 6pm last night, and was out after 7pm tonight.

Sounds like we may have a couple good wrasses!

pwhitby
09/28/2009, 08:47 PM
Im pleased yours is coming out Korrine,

Ronnie- are you coming to our big conference next month- the CRASE in Oklahoma City ?


paul.

flamron
09/28/2009, 08:58 PM
I am hoping to make it over Paul.

I spoke with Scott at Aquarium Oddballs a couple months ago, and he said it was absolutely amazing.

I just need to work out a baby sitter for my 2 year old.

pwhitby
09/28/2009, 09:15 PM
If you do make it--- give me a shout out.

for details, have a look here:

www.thecrase.com

Paul.

flamron
09/30/2009, 01:39 PM
LFS just emailed and said the leopard is eating.... I may be the owner of two wrasses.

What do you think Paul? Good move? Bad move?

Thanks,

Korrine
09/30/2009, 02:22 PM
Flamron;
Just my inexperienced opinion...I'd go in and make sure it was eating myself (and heartily eating preferably) and watch it for awhile. Isn't it weird that it hasn't been snapped up yet? I thought these generally sell fast??

pwhitby
09/30/2009, 02:24 PM
My personal thought would be have them keep it for a few more weeks, then the night before the CRASE conference, have them bag it really well with lots of water and air. The hop in the car, come to OKC and pass it to me.

I have wanted a good leopard for a very long time.

Alternatively..... if it is eating and you think you have enough microfauna for it to thrive, by all means add it to your system. If you QT you really have to ensure it is eating well and get the same food the store uses.

Paul.

flamron
09/30/2009, 02:24 PM
They are holding it for me. I ordered a Christmas wrasse, and they got in a leopard wrasse instead. I told them to call me if it started eating. They have had it for a week and a half.

flamron
09/30/2009, 02:27 PM
:)

I have a fuge and the melanurus is eating really well, so I "think" I can do it.

I have read about 20 pages of the leopard wrasse primer thread, but I don't recall if they burrow into the sand as well.

Do you think I would have any territorial issues between the two wrasses?

It is such a striking fish - which is odd. I was never really a "fish guy". Never understood why people have FOWLERs... I think I'm starting to understand.

Korrine
09/30/2009, 07:09 PM
My wrasse is eating great. I'm only concerned about dark spots on its back. Not dots, but a decent amount of darker scales..maybe? They are around the dorsal fin.

They are very apparent towards the end of this short video when he zooms back towards the side I'm on. Excuse the water drops on the glass please :)

http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg200/kj23502/sw%20tank/?action=view&current=020-1.flv


So what do you think?

Korrine
09/30/2009, 07:11 PM
They are holding it for me.

Wow I wish my pet store would hold a fish like that :fish2:

flamron
09/30/2009, 07:29 PM
Its hard to tell from the video. Does it have the "pinstripes" yet? It may be changing sex and the pinstripes "may" be coming in?

As long as it eats well, swims normally, and doesn't appear to be ill, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Do see if you can catch him in one spot and take a close up of it if you can though.



I am lucky to have a pet store that will hold livestock for me. They typically don't, but I told them that I won't buy a leopard wrasse that doesn't eat prepared food, and eat well.

Korrine
09/30/2009, 08:22 PM
This was the best I could get. The flash on my camera pretty much wipes out the darkened scales. Yet I need my flash or the fish is blur...I can't win I guess. This was the best video I could get after taking 6 videos and 41 pictures.

http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg200/kj23502/sw%20tank/?action=view&current=045-1.flv

Korrine
09/30/2009, 08:29 PM
Here are decent photos of the fish, but it washes out the darkness.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg200/kj23502/sw%20tank/024-2.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg200/kj23502/sw%20tank/038.jpg

It appears to be where you can see the stripes break up a little bit. I wonder if it could be from fighting in the lfs. There was a mostly dead melanurus in the tank. One of the the guys walked by when I was staring at the tank and he stopped to chat w/me. He looked at the tank and said @#$%. Did that jump over? Looked at the other tank that was back to back and didn't see it anywhere. He thinks they got together by one of them jumping and one beat the other to death??? Thought this fish looked vibrant and healthy, plus it ate. That's why I bought it :)

flamron
09/30/2009, 08:31 PM
I don't see anything to be alarmed with.

Maybe Paul can take a look, though.

Korrine
09/30/2009, 09:40 PM
:) Thanks. Glad nothing really stands out. Will be awaiting to hear from Paul for official confirmation, though.

Korrine
10/02/2009, 04:46 PM
maybe it's just this

The adult body has a series of vertical blue "stripes" that extend from the dorsal fin and appear to 'break" the red lines.

It's from Paul's article. Maybe my fish is developing the blue and that's why it looks darker?

pwhitby
10/02/2009, 05:51 PM
K.

I think you are correct as well, it looks like the beginning of the differentiation as the blue bars begin to appear.

he certainly seems active.

Paul.

Korrine
10/02/2009, 09:01 PM
Thanks. I feel better now.

Looks really active and eats well. Doesn't hide when I walk up to the tank anymore. Comes forward to investigate me. I think I have a pretty decent specimen :D

flamron
10/02/2009, 09:02 PM
Mine actually ate mysis out of hand last night....:)

pwhitby
10/02/2009, 09:04 PM
Mine bites me.

So there....(sticking tongue out).

pwhitby
10/02/2009, 09:05 PM
Actually they are pretty curious fish, always looking for a snack.

Korrine
10/02/2009, 09:05 PM
wow that's great that he eats from your hand.

flamron
10/02/2009, 09:05 PM
show off.... ;)

Korrine
10/02/2009, 09:05 PM
Do you think he'll dig up and eat my pistol shrimp?

pwhitby
10/02/2009, 09:09 PM
Nope, I have a bunch of shrimp and he has never touched them.

I just took this experimental crappy video...(you inspired me korrine)

but you get the idea:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v112/paul-w/th_IMG_0646.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v112/paul-w/?action=view&current=IMG_0646.flv)

Korrine
10/02/2009, 09:13 PM
I didn't get anything...all it gave me was a still picture when I clicked on it??

pwhitby
10/02/2009, 09:14 PM
try this then:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v112/paul-w/?action=view&current=IMG_0646.flv

P.

Korrine
10/02/2009, 09:17 PM
I'm glad it shouldn't eat my shrimp. It was an expensive Diver's Den shrimp...

Korrine
10/02/2009, 09:20 PM
Well I just offered pellet for the first time and she took them :) Forumla 1 small pellets soaked in tank water with garlic and selcon. Also add the frozen marine cuisine to it which contains mysis, krill, spirulina and brine shrimp.

Korrine
10/02/2009, 09:25 PM
omg You have my DREAM tank :eek1:

I sooooo looooooove it!! Those blotched anthias are really cool. Love the naso tang... :celeb3: I love it!

pwhitby
10/02/2009, 09:26 PM
Not a patch on the old tank...but its got to grow yet. Its only 9mo old.

Did you ever see my old tank?

Korrine
10/02/2009, 09:28 PM
No your new article is what drew me to your forum and inspired me to own this fish...which is when I started this thread :)

pwhitby
10/02/2009, 09:32 PM
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-10/totm/index.php

That is the old tank.

P.

Korrine
10/02/2009, 09:36 PM
wow that was something!! Why did you dismantle it? Or did you just rearrange it?

pwhitby
10/02/2009, 09:46 PM
the seam split. So it had to be dismantled.

Shame, but it happens.

Korrine
10/02/2009, 09:47 PM
wow :( I can't even imagine going through something like that. Were you home when it happened?

pwhitby
10/02/2009, 09:55 PM
yep,

it was a slow leak, but required a complete strip down.

Korrine
10/02/2009, 09:56 PM
that's good that you were able to take quicker action since you were there. Were you able to save the fish and corals?

pwhitby
10/02/2009, 09:57 PM
Here you go....all you could ever want to know about my little disaster.

P.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1423726

Korrine
10/02/2009, 10:16 PM
thanks that will be quite a read. I hope you don't mind me asking about it. I'm just a very curious person by nature. Always wondering and have the "wheels upstairs spinning" (whether "those wheels" get anywhere or not is another story..lol. )

pwhitby
10/02/2009, 10:21 PM
I dont mind. thats why I wrote it down for others to maybe learn from.

P.

Korrine
10/11/2009, 05:38 PM
Hey I figured out why we can't post photos here. The img code is off.

Anyways,
Nothing new w/the wrasse. My potter's angel got sick and went in the QT w/the wrasse. I did dose copper. The wrasse will sit in there for at least another month since the angel was sick. The wrasse still looks fabulous and eats like a pig :)

Korrine
10/11/2009, 05:39 PM
taken a few days ago. I cropped it and zoomed up on the fish to see it a little better.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg200/kj23502/sw%20tank/038-1.jpg

Paul, should we ask if IMG codes can be turned on in here? Then we could see eachother's photos w/out having to click on them.

flamron
10/11/2009, 06:19 PM
img codes are working for me - EDIT: but not in this thread....Hmmm

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/flamron/IMG_9725.jpg

maybe someone doesn't like you Korrine? :) EDIT: Or both of us for that matter!

Korrine
10/11/2009, 06:20 PM
no they are turned off flamron. Says so in the bottom left corner. That's why only the link shows and not the actual photo.

flamron
10/11/2009, 06:25 PM
May be a default for the reefkeeper magazine threads...

Korrine
10/11/2009, 06:30 PM
I don't know, but I know it can be changed :)

Would be awesome if we could actually see the photos!

shookbrad
10/19/2009, 11:29 AM
I have experienced that a certin larger starfish will eat these small starfish also. I had one the was oragne and resembled a chocolate chip star. I watch it move over the small stars on the glass and extend it's stomic and consume it. It was very interesting to watch. However after all the small stars were gone it started to munch on the coral so I had to remove it.

I guess the best part is the Orange star is large enough that it can be easily taken out once all the small stars are gone and passed on to a fellow hobbiest. Verses trying to catch a shrimp that would starve to death eventually.

Korrine
10/19/2009, 04:10 PM
shookbrad, what are you talking about?

shookbrad
10/19/2009, 09:09 PM
Paul Whitby, Ph.D. article
Reefkeeping 101 - Pests, Parasites And Things That Go Munch In The Night, Part 2

Asterina sp. Starfish

pwhitby
10/19/2009, 09:49 PM
Shookbrad....you posted in a thread about a different article I had written, regarding melanurus wrasses- hence the confusion.

To answer your point, large stars are predatory and will eat corals while they are also eating asterinas, and I would not recommend them as a way to control asterinas.

Regards,

Paul.

Korrine
10/19/2009, 09:49 PM
oh ok. This thread was about the wrasse he wrote about. That's why I was confused :)

Korrine
11/06/2009, 05:03 PM
how's your wrasse, flamron? Mine's still doing good. Still sitting in QT. I'm afraid to drop into the DT.

flamron
11/06/2009, 05:48 PM
Both of mine are doing very well. Glad to hear yours is still doing good, too.

Korrine
11/14/2009, 09:40 PM
So here is my beautiful wrasse. This gal is gorgeous. She has a blue shimmer!!! Very hard to photograph that. She was picking at the rocks w/in 5 minutes of placing her in the DT. I was happy about that. She should be happy at the amount of sand in my DT at lights out. Will have TONS of sand to sleep in.
Here are the pictures:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg200/kj23502/sw%20tank/PB140261.jpg

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg200/kj23502/sw%20tank/PB140264.jpg


Video of wrasse.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg200/kj23502/sw%20tank/th_PB140266.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg200/kj23502/sw%20tank/?action=view&current=PB140266.flv)

scbauer
11/23/2009, 06:28 PM
Both of mine are doing very well. Glad to hear yours is still doing good, too.

Hey flamron, quick question... do you ever notice a problem with your Diamond Goby sifting sand and disturbing your Wrasse? I'm about to get a Diamond Goby but have held off because I am worried it will disturb my Hoeven's Wrasse while she is sleeping in the sand, causing her stress.

-Scott

flamron
11/23/2009, 06:30 PM
For the short period that he was alive after I got the wrasses, he didn't disturb them. I "think" the wrasses may have killed him though. I found my Diamond Goby on a powerhead a couple weeks ago. Not really sure what happened, but he caused some serious havoc in my tank. I believe I had an ammonia spike, which has really done a number on quite a few corals. I was really busy at work that week, and he was dead in the tank for probably four or five days before I noticed.

scbauer
11/23/2009, 06:39 PM
Wow, sorry to hear it. Why do you think the wrasse(s) may be to blame?