i hate my new apex

[PogoMonogo]

so i finally got this stupid thing, and i can get it to do nothing. I cant get the internet to work, i can't get my lights to stay on, i cant get anything right. I got my t5 plugged in, and 1 turns off every few minutes, then back on. The only thing i have hooked up right, seemingly, is the ph and temp prob. This sucks, i am so frustrated. any help is welcome.

[thefu]

It may seem obvious, but did you bother to read the manual before plugging it in? It's not the greatest, but I would never been able to wing it without spending about 30 minutes to read it cover to cover.

[PogoMonogo]

yeah, i did. I continue to try over and over again to connect my laptop to the controller, and i get nothing.

[PogoMonogo]

ok, got connected.

[Cathy8424]

I tried to read the manual too, and found it to be very confusing. And so have others in this area. This is one comment from another after working on it for a week: “Cathy how far have you gotten on the apex? I can access it from on line and just learned how to set up the email. I have also figured out how to set up the outlets. I just need to figure out how to add the DC8.”

I have been using Neptune Controllers for around 7 years now. But it has taken me the best part of 3 days to get this figured out. I have a large system, and just got it on-line tonight. I got the email working, but I am not going to be able to get the remote internet part going by my self.

For me, the AC's were much easier to program. I could slip one out and push a button to load the codes into a new one, and I was up and running. I know some of these features will come with new firmware updates.

I sure wish the Apex would have had an import feature for existing systems. I sure would like the EB's to have a connection for DC8's. I am limited as to where I can place the EB in the system, and it is not where I would like to have had it. If I want to add another EB later on, I will have to delete the first DC8 one timer at a time, and recode them all.

There is no copy and past, no push the button and load or save codes. You have to delete one timer at a time which takes my computer about 20 seconds each, and you automatically get 8 when you mistakenly add a DC8 in an order that you don’t want. You can't arrange the order in which the timers display and etc...

But the good news is: Neptune is a class act and they have always been very responsive to consumer needs. There has been many firmware updates already for the Apex, and there will be many more to come. In the end, it will be a better product than it's predecessors and competitors.

Neptune has been working nonstop on this project, and I trust they will continue to do so until the new wrinkles are ironed out!

[PogoMonogo]

Yeah, cathy, this manual sucks, to be kind. But, I did finally get it working. One of the things I found the most frustrating is that it doesnt mention anywhere that the DC8 outlets are labeled as (blank)_3 and NOT the A_1 ect. That was a pain in the butt, but i am slowly getting it.

[tamu]

To me the manual is not bad, just my opinion.
It shows you about everything you need to know.

[kenargo]

wrt import; while the Apex lacks this ability the AC Simulator that I created will take an AC program and convert it for you. You still need to copy/paste into the Apex but the language syntax conversion is done for you by the tool.

Most of the missing functionality, as Cathy mentions is coming in near future releases and is just the part of product progression.

Lastly, the Apex is different enough to be confusing to AC3 users because of the was outlets are isolated and not 'relational' as people are used to and I am sure that causes confusion. At the same time the controller can do a LOT and when you have a rich feature set that can make the product and manual appear daunting. The Apex solves this by using wizards #outlet programming that you fill in the values; no code to write# and the default mode for most outlets is a wizard; did you look at these before jumping in, maybe they fit your needs?

Lastly, you came to the right place; there are people here who have been using Neptune product and more importantly to your questions the Apex for some time. A little patience and as many questions as you feel are needed an we #the community# will get you everything you want; just ask.

Some have even been known to make house calls ;)

I am sure that in the end you will enjoy your Apex!

[HeneryH]

I had two EB8s show up in the configuration out of the box even though I only had one actual EB8. This initial confusion caused my lights to go on and off and odd times because I had programmed the wrong EB8. You may want to check that.

[PogoMonogo]

Well, for the record, I don't hate the apex :). Having never owned a controller I just assumed setup was a little more...intuitive I guess. I hot the basics, lights on a timer, pumps on, ect. So, i am slowly on my way. I can definitely see what's possible, so I am excited about trying stuff. But one question though, what the hell is an X-10?

[poolkeeper1]

Man am I glad I got the RKE, Just reading some of these complaints gets me remembering just how confusing these systems are!!! Unless your a computer programmer get a RKE JMHO...

[Lightsluvr]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15654161#post15654161 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by poolkeeper1
Man am I glad I got the RKE, Just reading some of these complaints gets me remembering just how confusing these systems are!!! Unless your a computer programmer get a RKE JMHO...

Don't gloat too much... the Apex is a far better product, IMHO.

The OP on this thread made the same mistake I did a few weeks ago... I put my keyboarding fingers in gear before engaging the brain.

Setting up the Apex is not rocket science... if this old non-techie can do it, anyone can.

And at the end of the day, I can control my tank from my iPhone. RKE can't even get close.

LL

[kenargo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15654128#post15654128 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PogoMonogo
Well, for the record, I don't hate the apex :). Having never owned a controller I just assumed setup was a little more...intuitive I guess. I hot the basics, lights on a timer, pumps on, ect. So, i am slowly on my way. I can definitely see what's possible, so I am excited about trying stuff. But one question though, what the hell is an X-10?

X-10 is an older technology that was supported by earlier controllers. In short X-10 is how you would control Neptune DC8s, DC4HD, LunarSim, etc; it was also a method to control things usign home AC wiring to control things (think home automation).

The Apex can support these devices but if you are using EB8 and in the future other AquaBus devices they don't use nor need X10 and you can skip anything that mentions X10.

[PogoMonogo]

Sweet thanks. And yeah like he said earlier, I definitely just got frustrated and went straight to complain mode. I definitely do not regret the purchase, and honestly I think I would have setup issues regardless of the manufacturer of the product. I am slowly getting the hang of it, it's not so bad. Will take some trial and error on my part for sure.

[PogoMonogo]

Also, did they create an updated aquanotes? You said you can control it from your iPhone, but I had read earlier that aquanotes is not comparable.

[kenargo]

AquaNotes is a software that runs on the PC from Neptune and is NOT compatible with the Apex; there is new software in the works that will replace AquaNotes.

The person that created the iPhone application (not associated with Neptune) also calls it AquaNotes which is causing some confusion but i have heard that the iPhone app is compatible with the Apex.

[PogoMonogo]

Ok, next question. Would an 8 tek light need the heavy duty 4bar strip? or can I run it on the dc8?

[kenargo]

Do you know the current draw for the unit? Each EB8 port can handle 6 amps (but you also want to watch the total for the EB8 which maxes out at 15 amps; sum of all devices on at any one time).

Port 4/8 are 10A relay outlets but I prefer to leave them for smaller devices like pumps, C02 relays, etc which don't always play well with triacs.

[PogoMonogo]

When you say pump, do you mean like an aqualifter? Would something like a vortech be ok?

[kenargo]

AquaLift is PERFECT for 4/8 and in fact is most reliable when used on these ports.

Some Vortex prefer to soft-start if you are going to oscillate them but if the pump is on all the time (say except for feeding, etc) then it would also be OK for these port.

For example on my 4/8 ports I have:

* C02 relay for my PF601 reactor
* Skimmer Clean unit for my BK skimmer
* Fans for my MhD
* Kalk stir pump

You can tell a device needs port 4/8 if it doesn't turn off correctly. The triac ports (1-3, 5-7) don't turn off completely when the connected device is very small wrt electrical demands and that is where the relay port really come in handy.

Hope this helps.

[PogoMonogo]

Thanks. You have been very helpful.

[thefu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15654753#post15654753 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kenargo

You can tell a device needs port 4/8 if it doesn't turn off correctly. The triac ports (1-3, 5-7) don't turn off completely when the connected device is very small wrt electrical demands and that is where the relay port really come in handy.

Hope this helps.

Bingo! So this is the reason my CO2 solenoid has not been turning off! I took the whole thing apart and cleaned it.

This is the kind of stuff that would be nice in the manual...if its in there, forgive me, but i do not remember seeing it...

[tamu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15655279#post15655279 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thefu
Bingo! So this is the reason my CO2 solenoid has not been turning off! I took the whole thing apart and cleaned it.

This is the kind of stuff that would be nice in the manual...if its in there, forgive me, but i do not remember seeing it...

It's in the manual, stated very clearly for you.

[thefu]

What is clearly stated for me in the manual (The EB8 manual) is that these two outlets user relays and the others are solid state.

Nowhere that I could find does it say what types of devices are best suited for these two types nor could I find where it says that certain things like CO2 solenoids may NOT function correctly on the solid state operated outlets.

Again, maybe I missed it, but I don't think so.

[RussM]

Is there a PDF version of the EB8 manual available? I don't see it in the downloads area of Neptune' website.

[tamu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15655573#post15655573 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thefu
What is clearly stated for me in the manual (The EB8 manual) is that these two outlets user relays and the others are solid state.

Nowhere that I could find does it say what types of devices are best suited for these two types nor could I find where it says that certain things like CO2 solenoids may NOT function correctly on the solid state operated outlets.

Again, maybe I missed it, but I don't think so.

You missed it.

[thefu]

hmm, page?

[tamu]

The very next section/page of the eb8 manual.

Talks about devices with poor power factors may not be able to turn off when running on the triacs.

[RussM]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15656022#post15656022 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tamu
... devices with poor power factors may not be able to turn off when running on the triacs.
Which likely means diddly-squat to most people. ;)
If that's what it actually says, then the manual would benefit from a better explanation in plain English.

[tamu]

Here...

NOTE: Some extremely small pumps (i.e. Aqualifter), may not shut off when controlled by an EB8 triac outlet due to their poor power factor. Work arounds include:

- Plug an additional load (small light bulb/wall wart transformer/fan) in parallel with the load.
- Use a socket expansion box to control the device.
- a DC4 or DC4HD to control the device

They can't possibly list every device...
I hope people in this hobby have a little bit of electrical knowledge. If not, I would recommend another hobby due to the health risk alone.

[thefu]

Tamu, you are so out of line. Of course they cannot list every device...how about starting with the 10 most common aquarium devices normally controlled by such a device and what outlets are best for them (should account for 95%)...lets see...

- lights (PC, T5, MH, LED)
- pumps
- kalk
- ozone
- CO2
- fans
- chiller
- feeder
- heater
- peristaltic pump
- ok maybe 15 if you add some more i can't think of right now...


I have a degree in computer science and I have designed circuits and laid out circuit boards for computer controlled devices.

Not only is this a poorly written statement for any average person, it discusses nothing of other common devices in the aquarium world that are likely connected to such a controller.

The simple fact here is that the documentation for this product is weak and what docs there are are not written for the average user for the most part. That said, I understand why given the fact that the market for these devices is not that big and Neptune is one step beyond a garage operation. One person, busily trying to get the product out the door...and he's a tech person. Nothing wrong with that, thats how many great products start out and some never need to grow their businesses past that.

I really like my Apex so far...but that does not change the fact that its not ready for prime time when it comes to an out-of-the-box-experience.

[tamu]

LOL...I knew you wouldn't be happy.
It falls in line with about 99% of your posts.

[PogoMonogo]

Sigh, anyway...Would you consider a desk fan from walmart such an item for a relay? Or is that again to big. The longer i play with the Apex, the more I am liking it. Sorry if I sparked off a disagreement here.

[RussM]

Pogo, a desk fan probably uses enough juice to reliably operate the triacs. My suggestion would be to try it in outlet 1,2,3,5,6, or 7 and see if it shuts off when directed.

[Wall_Tank]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15655279#post15655279 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thefu
Bingo! So this is the reason my CO2 solenoid has not been turning off! I took the whole thing apart and cleaned it.

This is the kind of stuff that would be nice in the manual...if its in there, forgive me, but i do not remember seeing it...


If you have already used your relay ports for other devices......here is a little trick for the CO2 solenoid. Go get a small incandecent light bulb and wire it with the solenoid valve. I used small night light bulb. This light draws just enough power to pull the triac voltage down when it is shut off.

[tamu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15657386#post15657386 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PogoMonogo
Sigh, anyway...Would you consider a desk fan from walmart such an item for a relay? Or is that again to big. The longer i play with the Apex, the more I am liking it. Sorry if I sparked off a disagreement here.

It is an awesome piece of hardware/software. You won't regret it. Don't hesitate to post any questions you may have.

[thefu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15657220#post15657220 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tamu
LOL...I knew you wouldn't be happy.
It falls in line with about 99% of your posts.

I simply call things as I see them.

I have said how much I like the Apex. I think it's the best out there.

That said, it can't always be a love fest, and as a consumer , I always hope that companies welcome constructive criticism. I am pretty sure Neptune does.

I agree with Tamu...if you want to squeeze the most out of your purchase, stay tuned here.