Auto Water Change

[AGM1]

Hi,

Im new to the hobby but would like to install an auto water changing system to my tank. I have an integrated sump where I would hook up a small pump on a timer, and it would empty the waste water into a sink or other area. Whats the best way of adding new water to the tank? I have a 1/2 inch whole drilled on the top of the tank for a pvc return.
Thanks

[PRDubois]

http://www.autotopoff.com/products/

Use a Double switch so you have failsafe if one fails.

[IridescentLily]

Also, jbj top off unit is recommended alot. It's not expensive as others like elos osmolater are, but loads of reefkeepers say the jbj is the most reliable.

[waynem]

Auto water changes just scare me.

[billdogg]

^^^what waynem said ^^^ I have no issue with auto topoff, if the supply of topoff water is limited, but I prefer to be there for actual water changes just to make sure all is as it should be.

[Guy340]

I think some other member here on RC did exactly what you wanted to do. His system consisted of a Litermeter III though. He would pump waste water from his display tank to his remote tank, add newly mix water to his display, and also, remove the waste water from his remote tank.

[sedor]

Just don't forget to add some sort of fail safe so that if there isn't fresh SW in storage, the old water will not get pumped out.

[Plan>B]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15683706#post15683706 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billdogg
^^^what waynem said ^^^ I have no issue with auto topoff, if the supply of topoff water is limited, but I prefer to be there for actual water changes just to make sure all is as it should be.

+1 though I wouldn't mind having something that I could have 2 pumps working at the same time and just be present during the change.

[reefscape15]

If you can get a very oversized skimmer running on the wet side, you can just use the skimmate as the means of water removal. It may take a bit of time to get things adjusted in regards to salinity, but if you are willing to put the time and effort in, it is really the best, most stable way to keep your tank water fresh and clean/cleaned. There was a 380gal TOTM about 6 months back or so, and he used his skimmer to draw out his water changes. I think it was in February of 09, and his name was Double J.....I think:)

[cveverly]

You also need to know how much evaporation you have. If you keep adding salt water you will have the salinity of the dead sea before long.

With a good controller, auto top off switch and slowly changing water I suspect it could be done. You would need to monitor salinity and run the pump for saltwater when salinity was low. If salinity was high you could add RO water. Using the ATO switch to keep the tank/sump at the correct level.

Sounds like disaster to me.

[ajger]

We think alike - I try to minimize time spent on routine maintenance as much as possible. My water change setup isn't quite automatic (there's no way I'd trust a fully automatic system) but still very easy. I plumbed a high level overflow from my sump through the exterior wall, than ran ABS pipe out to a cleanout plug on the side of the house, so basically the sump overflow is direct plumbed to a drain. The sump overflow level is ~1" from the top edge of the sump so water should never reach that level normally. There's also a 2nd wall pass-through where I route things like the skimmer air inlet, auto topoff inlet, and a 3/4 clear vinyl tube for pumping new water in. I have my RODI unit and all the drain plumbing in an insulated plastic tool shed on the exterior wall. For water changes, I flip a diverter valve plumbed into the sump-to-tank return line which sends main return pump flow out the sump drain overflow instead of up into the tank, then I flip a switch under the sump which powers up a pump out in the 30 gallon Brute containing the new salt water and sends it through the 3/4 tube which is connected above the diverter valve, so it flows straight up into the tank. Basically new water comes into the tank, old water goes out the drain. I shutoff all powerheads in the tank during transfer to minimize new/old water mixing. I'm sure I'm losing at least a few gallons of new water due to transfer mixing in the tank but out of 30 gallons that's not too bad. Water transfers take a total of 10 mins with no equipment to move around whatsoever. The nice side benefit is the high-level overflow in the sump offers some insurance against water ever overflowing the sump and getting on the floor.

[reefscape15]

ajger - that sounds pretty awesome!

[cveverly]

ajger, that is a great sounding system for water changes. I also like the fresh air intake for the skimmer.

[spscoral101]

Congrats. I love my ATO.

[Plan>B]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15688993#post15688993 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefscape15
ajger - that sounds pretty awesome!

YEs.... pics would be great:)

[AGM1]

Okay, so I was thinking of a system.

What if I had a 50 gallon garbage can that was filled with RO water from a machine and I also put salt in. This would be the new water reserve.

Then I had a small pump in the integrated sump that was on a timer to remove 25 percent of the water.

Moments after that a small pump in the new water reserve would switch on and deliver half of the water in there to the tank

The RO machine would then switch on to refill the can.

All I would have to do is monitor salinity in the garbage can.
Any ideas for fail safes though? Because if a pump fails....

[ajger]

Here's an outline of the plumbing setup, I'm sure others have gone this route as well.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2563/3915181870_9042721688_o.jpg

In normal operation, Valve A is open, Valves B and C are closed.
For water changes, Valve A is closed, Valves B and C are open, with the switch powering the water transfer pump ON.

I used PVC ball valves but if I were to replumb it would be with gate valves, especially on C where you have to fine tune the flow to ensure the outgoing flow rate matches the incoming rate from the transfer pump.

Also, my inlet pipe up in the main tank points to the left side of the tank, and the overflow to the sump is on the right end of the tank. During changes I keep the incoming flow rate fairly slow and shutdown powerheads to reduce mixing in the tank and try to ensure most of what reaches the overflow is old water.

[ajger]

AGM - an automated system the way you describe it could work, the biggest concern for me would be trusting something to get the salinity right in the make up water. I'm a firm believer in Murphy's Law so like I said before I'd never completely trust any fully auto system. Rigging everything up so all that was required was for you to hit a switch to start the transfer would be as far as I'd go. It just gets too risky not to be there to monitor things when you have a lot of livestock and time invested.

If you go for it please post some pics and let us know how well it works out.

[Plan>B]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15694730#post15694730 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ajger
Here's an outline of the plumbing setup, I'm sure others have gone this route as well.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2563/3915181870_9042721688_o.jpg

In normal operation, Valve A is open, Valves B and C are closed.
For water changes, Valve A is closed, Valves B and C are open, with the switch powering the water transfer pump ON.

I used PVC ball valves but if I were to replumb it would be with gate valves, especially on C where you have to fine tune the flow to ensure the outgoing flow rate matches the incoming rate from the transfer pump.

Also, my inlet pipe up in the main tank points to the left side of the tank, and the overflow to the sump is on the right end of the tank. During changes I keep the incoming flow rate fairly slow and shutdown powerheads to reduce mixing in the tank and try to ensure most of what reaches the overflow is old water.

Wondering if you have your return pump AND water transfer pumps running at the same time? Thinking you could just run the transfer pump only during the water change and then turn the return pump back on after your water change. This way you wouldn't need a gate valve to: "fine tune the flow to ensure the outgoing flow rate matches the incoming rate from the transfer pump."

No idea as it is only theory to me.

[Intothedarkdeep]

Takes me less than 10 minutes to change out 20-25 gallon, saving that 10 minutes a week is not worth taking the risk of loosing my entire tank.

[ajger]

Yes, return and transfer pumps are on at the same time during changes. The problem with not pushing the water up to the drain with the main pump is it might not able to flow as fast as the transfer pump is pushing new water in, also the drain flange on the sump is 1.5" from the top edge of the sump, I wouldn't normally ever want water to get that high in the sump. The normal 'flowing' water depth in the center return section of my sump is ~4", just enough to submerge the return pump, but it rises another 6" if the return pump is shut down.