Tank Weight Floor Load... Bracing Req'd?

[Hookup]

Hey,
I have a 180g, 6x24x24 which will run parallel to the floor joists. The joists are manufactured i-beam style wood.

Do I need to brace with some additional supports?

Thanks in advance,
Tim

[crooks]

I will be setting up a 180 soon in the same way and I am going to put a support beam towards the far end of the tank away from the wall. I have 2x10 joists and will just use another one across with two floor jacks. I know nothing about structural engineering but I think I need the support and it should be pretty cheap piece of mind.

[arredondojason]

i but a 240 gallon tank on the first floor of my house it is a house from the 1890s and it has a full basement under it and i did not add any supports and it worked out fine plus my old 150 gallon tank is sitting across from it and still no problems.

[stugray]

If you are running parallel to the Joists, I would say yes, you need additional bracing.

I would add stiffeners between the joists & suck them up to the flooring above.

Then I would put a column at each end of the tank below.

You didnt say what is directly below: finished basement, unfinished, crawlspace, etc.


I have a 125Gal, perpendicular to joists ( crosses 5 of them ) only 6 feet from the concrete wall.

If the kids jump around by the tank, you can feel the floor bounce up & down.

Stu

[el aguila]

You are roughly talking 1,500 lbs in water to fill your tank when there is nothing in it. Add to that weight of tank, stand, rock, substrate, and equipment and you should easily get the weight up to a ton. I seriously doubt that your floors are engineered to support that much constant weight.

My 190 sits parrallel with my floor joist. I put two 14"LVLs (1 1/2" x 14" plywood beam - very strong) perpendicular to the floor joist in the middle of the tank with two block piers under this. it is a little overkill, but my floor doesn't move when adults jump next to the tank.

In this picture the LVLs are covered by drywall. http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff101/rasocelaguila/100_1174.jpg

[Hookup]

Not sure what difference the basement makes... other than the amount of damage I have to do if support is required...

On the PLUS side, it's unfinished space, so adding bracing is easy...

If I cannot get a firm, no you do not have to, answer, then I'll do it for piece of mind..

My thought would be to add some 2x6 (x3 so 6x6) beams that will run perpendicular to the floor joists and put beams in to support those... so 4 jack posts at each corner of the tank (roughly) and 6x6 cross-braces (out of 3 glued and screwed 2x6's) ... I'm confident that would hold things..... just why do all that work if you do not have to... :)

Tim (aka lazy)

[waldomas]

[QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15700924#post15700924 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by el aguila
[B] Add to that weight of tank, stand, rock, substrate, and equipment and you should easily get the weight up to a ton. I seriously doubt that your floors are engineered to support that much constant weight.


Are you saying that ten 200 lb people couldnt stand together on your floor? That sounds like poor construction!

[Hookup]

see this is my point!


A tank might weight 1 tone.. ok it does.. fair... but a house party with 60 people in your house, is crowded as all get-out but no one is thinking OMG no more people or the supports will give out...

In fact, put me and 3 other 300lb people on my couch, and first, I'll take a photo cause there's bound to be some humor there, and second, I'm not thinking OMG 1500lbs in one spot... oh noess... (ok i am but that's cause I'm a self loathing sadistic person... not an engineer)...

So many things in this hobby are over engineered it's crazy... Tank Stands made out of enough 2x4's to hold up a cement truck full of cement all for a 90gallon system... is a good example.. :)

[albano]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15701347#post15701347 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by waldomas Are you saying that ten 200 lb people couldnt stand together on your floor? That sounds like poor construction! [/B] If you've got ten 200 lb people in a 6'X24" space...your house will be condemned for OTHER reasons!....HOOKUP, You need additional support, THIS IS CONSTANT WEIGHT AND STRESS, not a 2 or 3 hour party, Have you ever heard about a deck collapsing???...double up the beams, a 180g tank with stand, rock, sand, and water, is over 2000 lbs, PLUS you and 1 or 2 friends standing there looking at it, so add another 500+ lbs., once it starts to sag, it's a problem, easier to prevent NOW! I had a structural engineer come to my house for my new 450g tank, which would be over a steel beam, and was advised to add 'knee' walls in the basement!

[stugray]

Hookup

"My thought would be to add some 2x6 (x3 so 6x6) beams that will run perpendicular to the floor joists and put beams in to support those... so 4 jack posts at each corner of the tank (roughly) and 6x6 cross-braces (out of 3 glued and screwed 2x6's) ... I'm confident that would hold things..... just why do all that work if you do not have to...

Tim (aka lazy)"

If you are willing to do that, then it is perfect, AND you are not lazy.

You can buy the adjustable screw columns cheap.
Anchor the posts so there is no way an "accident" knocks one out of place.

Stu

[Hookup]

I'm convinced... cause as pointed out... $100 or so and 2hrs of work = a lifetime of sleeping soundly...

I'll admit I was hoping for a different answer, but this is what I expected...

Thanks for helping everyone!

[herpboyben]

floorjacks are like 26 bucks at lowes. ive got a 180 acrylic plus a 30 gallon frag tanks and a 100 gallon sump in my room. i put 3 floorjacks under my floor, plus there is a steel I-beam running the length of the tank. i know its overkill but houses aint cheap.

[scrombussquared]

I have a background in structural engineering and residential construction. If you have engineered joists, they are engineered to exceed any NORMAL load encountered in a residential application. They are either on 24" centers or 19.2" centers. Make sure there's at least two joists under the tank, then go with the tripled 2x6's at each end, with the screw jacks on each corner. In addition, add some vertical 2x4 blocking against the plywood(oriented strand board or OSB) portion of the joists, from the bottom of the top chord to the top of the bottom chord at each corner of the tank. This will help keep the OSB portion of the joist from crushing and blowing out. Another thing to remember is to never, ever cut the top or bottom chord of the joists for any reason. You can, however cut up to a 6" hole in the plywood portion of the joist without compromising the integrity of the floor system. As a side note- I was at a trade show back in the 90's and TJI, inc.( a manufacturer of engineered floor joists) had a display with a 16'x16' floor system supported only on the 4 corners. They had a live elephant walking on the system with less than 1/8" deflection. That's roughly an 8000 lb. live load on 16 foot joists and 1-3/4" LVL's on each end.

[rezaktp]

I have been folllowing similar threads on the same topic as I am getting ready to fire up my 180g soon!
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1567664
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article28.html

[jtrasap]

The concern is not only the floor itself, but the tank. If your floor gives when you walk by your tank, that 180 ish gallons of water sloshing around and the tank twisting and moving just a bit, puts quite a bit of stress on the glass and the seems.

[tangtang clown]

Taggin along. I will be putting a 125 perpendicular to joists, about 2 feet off of the wall. The foundation is brick, and I have crawl space underneath.

[el aguila]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15701347#post15701347 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by waldomas
[QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15700924#post15700924 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by el aguila
[B] Add to that weight of tank, stand, rock, substrate, and equipment and you should easily get the weight up to a ton. I seriously doubt that your floors are engineered to support that much constant weight.


Are you saying that ten 200 lb people couldnt stand together on your floor? That sounds like poor construction!

No, I'm just saying good luck if you put the tank in with no supports at all. The tank is a constant load that over time most likely will affect the structure of the house. You fill the tank then add several people standing around the tank with no support and you will most definitely feel the vibration when someone else walks by.

Granted what I did was way over engineered, but I had the materials sitting around my house left over from a construction job (no out of pocket expenses).

[earthboy17]

I had a similar question; here's how mine went:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1697654

[snoel614]

i have a 240 gallon tank that runs perpendicular to the joists.i just doubled all of them up to be safe.to not worry about the weight is ridiculous.better safe than sorry,that's a lot of weight.

[Mark]

I'm about to do the same thing, but perpendicular to the joists. I'm looking forward to hearing how it turns out.

[Rhodes19]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15720038#post15720038 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mark
I'm about to do the same thing, but perpendicular to the joists. I'm looking forward to hearing how it turns out. Ditto with my 180. :)

[Hookup]

k, i'll put photos into my build thread when I do that part as well... :) I warn ya, sometimes I like to work naked.... ;)

[tangtang clown]

Anybody know where to get floor jacks besides Lowes? I found some that will go from 2ft 10inches to 4ft 7inches for $35. I will need 2 jacks, 4 solid concrete blocks, and one 4"x6" to go perpendicular to joists.
I doubt I can find them for cheaper.

[crooks]

Any home store should have them. The ones I looked at in lowes where 8 foot and 9 foot tall for $35-$40. I dont plan on putting any concrete blocks under mine.

[Galantra]

Been paying attention on this I myself will be having my 300g I plan on adding some support beams under the tank. The only thing is that my entertainment room is right under so i need to make the floor jacks not noticeable any ideas?

[tangtang clown]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15725379#post15725379 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crooks
Any home store should have them. The ones I looked at in lowes where 8 foot and 9 foot tall for $35-$40. I dont plan on putting any concrete blocks under mine.

I have to put blocks under because they will be on dirt in my crawl space.