Beware of fire hazard...

[dclaghorn]

Read all the way to the end.

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-sunset-plaza-fire,0,5197159.story

[Wolverine]

They don't say whether he was using GFCI, but I'm sure the insurance adjustor will find out the answer to that.

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15711934#post15711934 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Wolverine
They don't say whether he was using GFCI, but I'm sure the insurance adjustor will find out the answer to that.

Simply information:

The NEC does not require a GFCI outlet to serve an aquarium, (depending on location) and it is not a fire prevention device, per se, so it would not make a difference as far as "insurance" cause goes. The way a GFCI operates, with a direct short, you have a 1 in 3 chance that the GFCI would NOT trip. The possible shorts are:

Line (hot) to ground: Current in does not equal current out. Trip

Neutral to ground: Current in does not equal current out. Trip

Line (hot) to Neutral. Current in equals current out. NO trip.

The branch circuit breaker would trip, with the third scenario, however, depending on what was in close proximity to the short, a fire could start.

The other trouble is with ballasted light fixtures. Since a ballast isolates the line from the load, regardless of what happens on the load side of the ballast, on the line side current in would equal current out, the GFCI would not trip. NOR would the main circuit breaker.

It is a common mistake assuming that GFCIs are required near ALL water sources. The code lists specific places that require GFCIs-- some are not near water sources, however, it does not list appliances that use water......the 2008 code requires AFCI protection for all branch circuits serving oulets in a dwelling (except where GFCI protection is required,) but there is no retrofit requirement. BOMK.

Regards,

Jim

[Wolverine]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15713285#post15713285 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by uncleof6
It is a common mistake assuming that GFCIs are required near ALL water sources. The code lists specific places that require GFCIs-- some are not near water sources, however, it does not list appliances that use water..

Thanks for the info. I wonder how much those things are state (or company) specific. Because it was definitely required where we lived before (I have no idea about where we are now, since we've always used one on our tanks).

[uncleof6]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15713322#post15713322 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Wolverine
Thanks for the info. I wonder how much those things are state (or company) specific. Because it was definitely required where we lived before (I have no idea about where we are now, since we've always used one on our tanks).

State codes are generally more strict than the NEC, a lot has to due with local "problems" such as earthquakes (out here.) I can't address state and local codes throughout the country, only the NEC. Out here, there is no mention of aquariums in the codes. (but I do not have it memorized either :D )

It is only common sense that an aquarium SHOULD have GFCI protection, however, I still question the use of GFCIs on highly inductive loads, such as ballasted lighting and larger external motors (pumps,) though the code has tightened up on refrigerators in the kitchen.

Regards,

Jim

[lordofthereef]

Wow, sucks for that guy :/

[dcroucher]

That really sucks. Feel for the guy.

[dclaghorn]

So, Jim, aside from a GFCI on that line, most of us (probably) have all of our electronics (pumps, lights, maybe even other household stuff like TVs and stereos up-line) into a single line with a bunch of stuff all in a surge protector and into one or two outlets. If retro wiring a house isn't an option, what do ya do? Cross your fingers and hope for the best?

Dave

[uncleof6]

The most dangerous condition, except for the most obvious: exposed live conductors, is the tangled mass of cords associated with aquariums, and as you mentioned, home entertainment setups. I have yet to walk into one of these nightmares, and leave without the problems corrected. Most of these issues come in as "my circuit breaker keeps tripping, I need a new one" and all that this statement infers. Another great problem, with aquariums, is people use "various" electrical safety devices, because they have been told to, yet they have no idea how these devices actually work, and what the implications are. The two that I refer to, are GFCIs, and grounding probes. Using these devices, does not necessarily make your system safe.

So in essence, with the scenario you present, most are crossing their fingers and hoping for the best.

Jim

[DCS_888]

I just don't understand why did someone with 14million dollars worth of collectible don't make sure their electrical circuit is uptoday :(

I just put in two new breakers for my tanks. The electrican recommend a AFCI; hopefully this would works better the GFCI :spin2:

Chi

[uncleof6]

The AFCI should not be confused with the GFCI or ground fault circuit interrupter. The GFCI is designed to protect people from severe or fatal electric shocks while the AFCI protects against fires caused by arcing faults. The GFCI also can protect against some electrical fires by detecting arcing and other faults to ground but cannot detect hazardous across-the-line arcing faults that can cause fires.

A ground fault is an unintentional electric path diverting current to ground. Ground faults occur when current leaks from a circuit. How the current leaks is very important. If a person’s body provides a path to ground for this leakage, the person could be injured, burned, severely shocked, or electrocuted.


The National Electrical Code requires GFCI protection for receptacles located outdoors; in bathrooms, garages, kitchens, crawl spaces and unfinished basements; and at certain locations such as near swimming pools.

A combination AFCI and GFCI can be used to satisfy the NEC requirement for GFCI protection only if specifically marked as a
combination device.

So your electrician, did not really do you a favor here. Even though AFCI is now required by code in locations of a dwelling not covered by a GFCI, they do not provide the same function, and therefore the safety of your system is degraded. Though there is no code requirement for "retrofitting" these devices, it is common to upgrade recepticles to reflect code changes. He should have put in a combination device AFCI/GFCI, considering the intended use, and these devices are clearly marked as such.

Jim