Reef Keeper Elite v. Neptune Apex Aqua Controller [Archive]

unbreakable

09/24/2009, 08:06 PM

I like my RKE but the customer service is not great. It seems when I post here on the sponsor forums they tell me to post in their support forum for help, but I never get much help. Instead, it's usually the users there who help if they can. I never got one response by e-mail for help by them, and i know i've sent a few, even the most recent one was never answered. Luckily one of their staff members (Sebastian) helped me out with my last problem on their forum. I guess if you get the RKE, you're better off calling and not wasting your time with emails or support forums.

I have had a bug issue with my system shutting down and starting back up randomly. This issue is not common but in my situation it's very frustrating because no one has any clues on what to do. It's been a week or so since my last shut down so I'm hoping this thing was just a fluke. I've spent a lot of money on this system and everything is dependent on this controller except my powerheads. I have two tanks running with this controller.

Quality of the unit seems great to me, it's my first controller. Easy to get it setup and running. You cannot control equipment through the internet yet, only the Apex is capable of that, and the Apex already has the option of connecting to the internet right out of the box.

I like my controller, just don't agree with the customer service I have experienced from them (none..) and not happy with the bug I have.

I was and am still considering the Apex in the future, but for now I think it's better just to stay with the RKE.

btw i have these modules, accessories, and probes for this unit:

4xPC4
2xSL1 with 1 ORP, 1 PH probe, and 2 temp probes
1xNet
3 ATO float valves with brackets by DA

HTH :)

DaFishHead

09/24/2009, 08:25 PM

Unbreakable,
How old is your RKE and when did you start having proplems with it?

unbreakable

09/24/2009, 08:32 PM

Hm, I'm not sure how old, it's been a few months. I started having problems with it about a week or two after I purchased. When you have this type of problem or most problems the troubleshooting usually consists of:

What firmware do all modules have?
Is everything plugged in the appropriate channel?
Is it away from any electrical interference?
When you updated modules did you do a system reset?
Update modules again and do a system reset again...

Btw, when you reset your system you will have to enter info all over again. For the price, the unit is not bad. I like it, but like i said, not fond of their CS.

Like i said before, it's not a common problem, but if you're the unlucky one to have one like me, you're out of luck. You pretty much have to sit back and wait for DA to send out an updated firmware to fix anything

DaFishHead

09/30/2009, 07:23 PM

How about anyone with the Apex?
Please share your thoughts

rbnice1

09/30/2009, 07:49 PM

Got mine running this afternoon. Really like it so far. Time will tell how it holds up, but so far so good.

CalmSeasQuest

09/30/2009, 08:05 PM

I've had an Apex up and running for about a week. This is my first controller, so I can't compare it to the RKE, but so far I LOVE it. I travel a lot so the ability to monitor and adjust the tank via the Internet was a huge selling point for me.

The real time graphing functions let you closely track changes and make adjustments remotely - It makes tank maintenance (especially dialing in a new tank) much easier to do.

DaFishHead

09/30/2009, 08:19 PM

Got mine running this afternoon. Really like it so far. Time will tell how it holds up, but so far so good.

rbnice1 was it easy to set up? What accessories did you buy with it?

Zestay

09/30/2009, 08:38 PM

i could be wrong but i bet the rke and apex are very simliar on the inside.

rbnice1

09/30/2009, 09:19 PM

I just got the standard package, which has the base, display, pH, temp, and EB8. I took my old DC4 out of service and used my old DC8. Setting it up was easy if you know anything about networking. Programming it was a little different. I had a Jr. and the programming is a lot different. Thankfully we have a good group of guys in the neptune forum to help out with programming.

I would say overall it was easier to program then my Jr was when I fist started

herozero

09/30/2009, 11:10 PM

Curt from Neptune provides OUTSTANDING customer service. He is very responsive and I have had nothing but good experiences with him and getting help from users in the forum. I run an AC3 so I can't speak specifically about the Apex, but mine runs rock solid and I know I can count on top notch service when needed. If I needed another controller, I would have zero hesitation to get an Apex.

DaFishHead

10/02/2009, 09:41 PM

So I purchased a Apex the other day. My reefkeeper 2 keeps acting up. Now my reefkeeper turns off my MH lights at 6:30 each night. I have no idea why this is happening. The RK2 is programmed to turn the light off at 10:00 PM. Go Figure.

Anyone have set up tips for the Apex?

kc350twin

10/03/2009, 08:05 PM

Tagging along.. I am leaning towards the Apex myself but my RK2 is flawless. Keep us updated with your experience if you have the time.

rbnice1

10/03/2009, 08:28 PM

There are only 2 things I dont like about my apex at this time.
1. I like have graphs and data in monthly and yearly data. (They are working on a new version of notes that will do this)
2. My emal alarms are not working.(This might be something I am screwing up. I am still working on it.)

I have been on 90% travel with work for the last year so the web based access is huge for me.

As far as tips for set-up is was pretty easy. The EB8 auto configures. You just go in and modify the names and what the outlets do. For DC8 or HD4's you just do a add modual with the address. Make sure yhou know what your routers IP address and range is and on into the networking settings on the apex and set the gateway to your routers address and give it a static IP. Then there is some port forwarding you need to do for internet access.

I already do port forwarding for my Teamspeak server and for my VNC so I can remotely access my home PC's, so set-up on this hasnt been to bad.

DaFishHead

10/04/2009, 05:50 PM

wdt2000

10/04/2009, 05:56 PM

rbnice1

10/04/2009, 06:39 PM

No.... but you can only graph 1 day at a time. They are supposed to be chamnging it to up to 7 days at a time. More then that you would need a new version of aquanotes that isnt made yet.

wdt2000

10/04/2009, 06:47 PM

I am guessing the Aquanotes will not be free?

DaFishHead

10/13/2009, 08:02 PM

Got my Apex today. I have been playing with it for about a half hour. It has a lot of functions. Right now I am having difficulty even setting the time and date. :mad2: The display keeps switching screens when I don't want it to. I will play some more and report soon.

rbnice1

10/13/2009, 08:06 PM

Get it hooked up to your network and program it via the browser. Its much much easier.

DaFishHead

10/13/2009, 09:44 PM

It is all good now. For some reason the first time I pluged it in the display was not working. However I just unplugged and replugged it and it is working great.

Rbnice what software did you download to do that?

herozero

10/13/2009, 09:47 PM

web server is built in. check out the neptune forum if you run into problems, plug it into a router/ethernet switch or wireless bridge. follow instructions. and then obsessively check your parameters from anywhere with internet access.

rbnice1

10/13/2009, 10:33 PM

yup built in. just plug it into your home network. I assigned it a ip of 192.168.1.50 and then any computer on my home network can access by apex by simply typing 192.168.1.50 or http://apex into the Firefox/IE/Opera web browser.

Av8bluewater

10/14/2009, 04:50 PM

I have had both Apex and RK elite V2.
I had to send the Apex back for corrupt software. Got into an argument with them over shipping but they did end up paying after I produced a receipt.
Then I still could not get it to simply turn on the lights.
I suppose it's possible the problem was me but I read the manual cover to cover like 3 times. Got frustrated and sent the whole thing back to MD.

I think if it worked it would probably be a slightly nicer unit than the reefkeeper which is what is ended up with.

The cord for the display on the Apex is thin, nice and long. RKE is a clunky telephone cord.
The RKE has more mount options as there are 2 4 plug units vs. Apex has all 8 outlets at one spot. So I liked that.
RKE came with it's own PH calibration solution and a screw on cap for the probe. That was nice because you will have to buy that separately with Apex.

The Apex has a beafier longer temp probe. The one on the RKE can pop out of the tank easily which would mean the heater would then start heating things up too high. I put a clip on it to hold it in place. It's just a thin wire vs. the Apex has some weight to it.

One big thing I like on the Apex was the ability to name the outlets. That way I don't have to keep looking at the outlets to see what is plugged where.
Also the Apex seemed a little more simple to program basic things like what temp should the light go off if it get's too hot. It's all there with the RKE but I had to go through extra steps to get there.

RKE has several color to choose from for the display .. Big deal but it's kinda nice.
Both manuals are a little weak.
Overall I think the Apex is a little nicer but probably not $100 nicer.. maybe $20-$30 nicer.

I have only set it up for heater , temp , PH monitoring, lights, wavemaker. .. so I know I could get a way with a $100 controller but I like this display and may use other functions in the future.

suthrnmn

10/14/2009, 05:17 PM

i have been running the neptune aqua controller II for about 8yrs give or take. I had one of the very first sets of the dc4. 4 of them. I think they went back and forth to california at least 5 times with burnt connections in the socket. then they came out with the hd model and i had all mine converted to the hd. ive not had any problems since and i do run 400w ice caps. they were "pretty good" about fixing them though i had to pay shipping out. they paid it back...so thats my story.

DaFishHead

10/18/2009, 08:18 PM

So, like the apex. It was pretty easy to program the outlets. Still working on some more advance features like slowly increasing the amount of light as my T-5's turn on.

I love that I can program the controller from my computer.

addicted2reefin

10/18/2009, 08:50 PM

DaFishHead

10/19/2009, 12:24 PM

ok, i understand having remote acess for checking on your reef but what really can you "Adjust" if you only have standard equipt hooked up to it. by standard i mean top off, ights, pumps. I currently dont own any dosers or calc reactors, but i guess it would come in hand for remote dialing of a reactor. Is this what you guys use the remote access for?

Wouldn't you like to get a e-mail notifying you if your power went out, PH changed or there was a problem with your temp? Maybe if there was a problem with Temp or PH you could adjust it from miles away from home while you are on the road.

I am out of town quite a bit and this will be a little extra insurance that I will be notified as soon as a problem starts.:dance:

BigAl2007

10/22/2009, 01:36 PM

Wouldn't you like to get a e-mail notifying you if your power went out, PH changed or there was a problem with your temp? Maybe if there was a problem with Temp or PH you could adjust it from miles away from home while you are on the road.

I am out of town quite a bit and this will be a little extra insurance that I will be notified as soon as a problem starts.:dance:

I'm curious as to how it would email you during a power outage as all the rest of your equipment (router etc) would be out too. I am seriously considering the APEX (running AC Jr now) but can't get my mind around how it would notify during a power outage.

Allen

James77

10/22/2009, 02:15 PM

I'm curious as to how it would email you during a power outage as all the rest of your equipment (router etc) would be out too. I am seriously considering the APEX (running AC Jr now) but can't get my mind around how it would notify during a power outage.

Allen

Maybe running everything- router, computer, Apex- on a UPS? IDK if it would even work, but you would just need a couple minutes to email.

James77

10/22/2009, 02:24 PM

As for me, I am switching from the RKE to the Apex. The RKE has worked very well for me, but here are the reasons I am switching:

1. 2 pH probes on Apex. There is no need to buy another module, as the ORP can be used as pH. I am running a Ca Rx and it is nice to control inside the reactor as well as monitor the tank.
2. Outlet naming. I cannot imagine why DA would not allow this ability. It can get annoying referring to a list if you have several PC4s running. Apex can name outlets.
3. Tunze. I know RK is coming out with it, but its going to be a while. Apex there is no need to buy an extra module- only the cables.
4. PC programming. Comes with the Apex. The RKE needs an upgrade to get the NET module, and you still cannot program the RKE on your computer.

DaFishHead

10/22/2009, 09:03 PM

I'm curious as to how it would email you during a power outage as all the rest of your equipment (router etc) would be out too. I am seriously considering the APEX (running AC Jr now) but can't get my mind around how it would notify during a power outage.

Allen

Hi Allen,
I dont have mine set up yet to get the e-mail. However here is a thread about it.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1727133

Also here some information from Neptune's web site.

Apex System

The Apex System delivers a professional quality controller at hobbyist prices.

Built-in Ethernet

Integrated Ethernet port

Most advanced web server available

Interactive flash graphing application in the web server

Interfaces with AquaNotes iPhone application

Compatible with all Major web browsers (Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Safari)

Only aquarium controller with web server monitoring, control, and configuration

Compatible with wireless bridges or game adapters (802.11x) so that wireless network communication is possible

Email or text message alarms

Email alarms or audible alarms when Energy Bar power fails

Interactive flash graphing application in the web server

Interfaces with AquaNotes iPhone application

RSS and XML Support

BigAl2007

10/23/2009, 02:36 PM

Excellent! I can only guess that are thinking that either:

A) The controller and your network are on seperate power blocks

or

B) Maybe they are saying it will alert with the Controller Power-Bar goes down

Otherwise I can't get my mind around how it can notify you via email or anything else when there is a complete power outage. I'm not saying it's impossible but you'd have to "Power Manage" all aspects of the system.

BigAl2007

10/23/2009, 02:37 PM

Ok... I went and read the article AFTER I typed that and yes that's what they are saying. Your router/Cable Modem etc do have to be on some type of battery back-up system.

NOW it all makes sense. Battery back-ups are so inexpensive now it's a viable option and one I will probably integrate into my next system.

Thanks for starting this thread and the follow-up :)

DaveMorris

10/23/2009, 06:10 PM

4. PC programming. Comes with the Apex. The RKE needs an upgrade to get the NET module, and you still cannot program the RKE on your computer.

The NET module has nothing to do with being able to remotely program your system. When the myReef software is released, probably in December, you will NOT need a NET module to remotely program your RKL or your ELite. myReef software will also be 100% free. No upgrades are necessary.

James77

10/23/2009, 06:22 PM

The NET module has nothing to do with being able to remotely program your system. When the myReef software is released, probably in December, you will NOT need a NET module to remotely program your RKL or your ELite. myReef software will also be 100% free. No upgrades are necessary.

Then how is the RKE going to connect to a PC?

Will you be able to monitor your RKE from another PC using only myreef?

Can my reef send email alerts without using the NET module?

Will myreef be able to update firmware on all modules without removing each individual one?

mcoomer

10/24/2009, 09:24 AM

I've only had my RKE for a week now, so I can't comment on much more than the ease of setting it up. I still need to dress the cables for appearances but other than that my system is fully functional. With about an hour of button pushing I was able to:

Put my VHO's and metal halides on timers.
Set my metal halides so that they turn off when water temp goes above 85.
Canopy fans are turned on when water temp hits 82.
Return pump and skimmer are turned off for 10 minutes during feeding.
Return pump and skimmer are turned off for 30 minutes during water changes.
Probes for pH, Temp, and Salinity calibrated and installed in the tank.

I'm in the process of setting up the network adapter so that I can monitor the tank remotely. Once that's done I'll dig into setting up the NET module and getting my email alerts/RSS feed up and running.

Mike

DaveMorris

10/24/2009, 01:52 PM

Then how is the RKE going to connect to a PC?

Same way it does now via the SID and USB port on the computer.

Will you be able to monitor your RKE from another PC using only myreef?

I believe the answer to that is yes, but all of those details have not been released yet.

Can my reef send email alerts without using the NET module?

Same answer as above...not sure as those details haven't been released. I think the answer will be yes, but perhaps not directly from myReef.

Will myreef be able to update firmware on all modules without removing each individual one?

No. The individual modules will need to be updated off the bus, one at a time. I'm not sure if this will change in the future, but the general idea is to eliminate the need for module updates altogether. Once the 2.0 firmware is released and downloaded to all of your modules, the need to update them in the future will be very slim.

Keep in mind that the NET module provides quite a lot of functionality, which is why it costs money. Not everyone needs/wants that extra functionality so DA chose to not put it in the RKE head unit and force people to pay for something that they don't need or want. It is possible that when myReef is released it will further enhance the capabilities of the NET module, but DA has made it very clear that you will not need the NET module to run myReef and that myReef will work on both the RKE as well as the RKL.

James77

10/24/2009, 02:36 PM

Same way it does now via the SID and USB port on the computer.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the only way of connecting the RKE head unit to the SID requires removing the bus cable from the back connecting the HU to the other modules. Will something be made available allowing constant connection of the SID to the RKE head unit?

luther1200

10/24/2009, 03:43 PM

I have a RKE and I like it a lot. But, I do wish you could name the outlets. I have 3 PC4's now and I am going to get 1 or 2 more and its already tough to remember whats what. And I do agree that there customer service has a little to be desired. Its not the worst I have come across, but its definitely not the best. I would put it in the middle of the road customer service wise.

DaveMorris

10/25/2009, 03:18 PM

Correct me if I am wrong, but the only way of connecting the RKE head unit to the SID requires removing the bus cable from the back connecting the HU to the other modules. Will something be made available allowing constant connection of the SID to the RKE head unit?

For updating the firmware on the head unit, yes you would need to disconnect it from the bus and connect the SID directly to it. As for running myReef on it, it may be as simple as connecting the SID to the bus anywhere in the line. There is a huge difference between updating a module's firmware and monitoring/controlling the whole system. Utilizing the RKM-HUB you can connect modules like the head unit in a spider type layout, instead of in series. DA has not released details on myReef yet so I do not know exactly how this connection will work. I only know that two facts they have stuck to are myReef software will be free and it will not require a NET module to run. Since myReef will work with the RKL as well as the RKE, the NET module can not be a required module because the NET module will not work with the RKL.

DaveMorris

10/25/2009, 03:24 PM

I have a RKE and I like it a lot. But, I do wish you could name the outlets. I have 3 PC4's now and I am going to get 1 or 2 more and its already tough to remember whats what.

That will happen with the release of myReef. Outlet naming is one of the features that they expect to have in myReef. I am currently running five PC4's and one PC1 on my system and it is a real pain not having outlets named, but I use a cheat sheet to help me with that. Ultimately with myReef it will no longer be an issue.

And I do agree that there customer service has a little to be desired. Its not the worst I have come across, but its definitely not the best. I would put it in the middle of the road customer service wise.

Maybe I was always just lucky, but I have never had any trouble with support issues. Myself as well as several other extremely knowledgeable users are on the DA support forum regularly. Hopefully their support will continue to improve so that those people that haven't had as good of an experience will see aan improvement.

luther1200

10/25/2009, 05:51 PM

I think there service would be in the bad range if not for people like yourself on there support forum. But when you e-mail them directly IME, its hit or mis. Sometimes they are very helpful sometimes they are not. I have had 2 minor issue's so far. The first was just user error on my part, but they were very willing to help me before I eventually figured out what I was doing wrong. The second issue not so much.

digitalaquatics.com

10/25/2009, 07:22 PM

While we won't comment on future firmware updates until we're ready; I can say that a number of features are coming that we've planned for a while now that customer will really like!

As far as support we've had a number of events over the last month and a half that have stretched support staff a little thin. The customers that actively participate on our forum ARE a big part of makes the ReefKeeper systems a great product. We have almost 3000 customers on the forum and that ='s a lot of help, ideas, and support at all hours of the day and night.

Thank you,

Scott

Stay tuned!!! :)

DaFishHead

10/26/2009, 09:14 PM

In all fairness I have to say, I am now having some problems with my Apex. Trying to figure out why my lights keep flickering. I don't know if it has to do with the apex or not and I'm trying to work it out.

Scott I must say I hope that DA works out the staffing issues. You have a great product and I used to swear by it. Heck I am still using my RK2 next to my apex. However the DA's customer service caused me to have a affair with Neptune.

As far as features I think there are strengths in both controllers. It is just what the consumer is looking for.

mukymuk

10/26/2009, 10:07 PM

I have about a $1100 RKE system. I had a lot of problems getting it all going due to defective hardware and firmware. DA made good on all of it though and it is now working aside from a few outstanding firmware bugs. (OMG release a firmware fix for the SL2 ppt bug already!!! ;-)

My basic impression is that DA is a very small company with very limited resources. As a result, their product isn't really production quality--at least not relative to the consumer electronics industry in general. However, it's getting close though and I think their hearts are in the right place. I think it will be a solid product someday and I trust them to make right whatever goes wrong--given enough time and whine.

That's just my $0.02. A lot of people have had zero problems from day one.

For all I know the competing controllers might be even worse though...

The only thing I do really hate though is the fact that my buddy has an AC3 system which he can control via the internet. I don't. :(

digitalaquatics.com

10/27/2009, 10:51 AM

.
...control via the internet. I don't. :(

I know RC doesn't like us posting outside our forum, but I had to comment here. As many that were at RAP saw this week end, we had on display the new NET module 2.0 code that allows for control over the network. ;) You'll have what you're looking for soon!

Scott
DA

spoofer

10/30/2009, 06:06 PM

wow, nice thread and info...I'm torn on which way to go now...i'll keep waiting for further info

DaveMorris

10/30/2009, 06:31 PM

Within the next two months this decision will be made very clear. myReef should help a lot with that when it is released.

DaFishHead

11/01/2009, 09:41 AM

Hopefully I am not writing this to soon. I am having a problem with my Neptune Apex. It is not turning on my lights correctly. Very similar to the problem I was having with my RK2. Not a problem with the lights but rather with the controller.

With either of these controls I believe you will have a risk of it not working like it is supposed to. It may be a small risk but the risk is there. Although my problem is not yet resolved, Curt from Neptune has already sent nine e-mails, had one phone call, helped install software, and reviewed my problem in depth. Hopefully I will be able to tell you that I am up and running soon. However I can tell you that at this moment, I am VERY happy with Neptune's customer service!!

rbnice1

11/01/2009, 09:52 AM

DaFishHead

11/01/2009, 10:54 AM

ummm... If you have similar problems with 2 completely different systems that no one else has, I dont know if you can blame the controller for that.....

Tho I do hope you get it figured out.

Been about a month since getting mine installed, and other then not having monthly and yearly graphing options I like it so far.

Nope. One light is a Galaxy Ballast on a RK2 and the other is a sunlight supply ballast on a Neptune apex. Problem is not related or even possibly related. So, Yes I can blame the controllers for that.

The RK2 outlets just stopped working.
The Apex has a hard time taking the current that is produced with my Dual 250 MH HQI. However it appears that Neptune is just going to replace my EB8 with a new one while DA did not even respond to my e-mails asking for help.

DaFishHead

11/01/2009, 10:57 AM

Maybe similar was a bad choice of words.

rbnice1

11/01/2009, 11:01 AM

Hopefully I am not writing this to soon. I am having a problem with my Neptune Apex. It is not turning on my lights correctly. Very similar to the problem I was having with my RK2. Not a problem with the lights but rather with the controller.
[/U]!

Ohhh ok so the problem your having with your apex is not similar in any way to what you were having with your RK2..... :lolspin:

Hopefully your new eb8 fixes the light issues. I stagger all my halide and T-5 start up times and have never seen what your having, so hopefully its just a bum eb8.

clownnrnd

11/01/2009, 11:05 AM

dafishhead- glad to hear you were taken care of the way you were. Makes me feal much better about buying my Apex. I had thought about the RKE but had seen too many people report no customer support. These things are huge in these times as we are all feeling a bit of money pinch I would imagine. All the more reason to buy from people who stand by their products and take care of their customers. If we don't...someday they may not be there for us....then who are we left with??

Chad

luther1200

11/01/2009, 12:44 PM

However it appears that Neptune is just going to replace my EB8 with a new one while DA did not even respond to my e-mails asking for help.

Unfortunately this seems to be a common problem. I'm not sure what the deal is with DA sometimes. Somebody once said they thought it was because they weren't a huge company, but there is other smaller companies with stellar customer service, (I-Tech for example). So I don't really think thats it. Don't get me wrong I love my RKE and don't plan on getting rid of it any time soon, but I really hope they get better customer service down the road. People spend a lot of money on controllers and won't put up with that kind of thing more than once. Meaning they won't have many repeat costomers possibly, IMO. I have a minor issue with the buttons, and the graphing of my RKE V1 head unit, so it was suggested by them I may as well upgrade to the V2 which will likely solve the problem. So they gave me the price, and it was excellent I must say. But that was 3-4 months ago, while they were waiting for the next shipment to come in. I was in e-mail contact for about 3 weeks when they said they should have them. And that was the last I heard back in July maybe, no e-mails or reply's since then. I have sent 1 or 2 since then and got nothing back. I find it hard to believe they don't have them yet, so basically they just forgot or said the heck with it. Not very good, IMO. And if they really don't have them, a simple e-mail saying that is all it would take to make me happy.

James77

11/01/2009, 01:10 PM

The Apex has a hard time taking the current that is produced with my Dual 250 MH HQI

I assume it is the EB8 that is having the problems with the high current and not the controller itself? I am setting up the same balast, but I am using an expansion socket for the halides.

unbreakable

11/02/2009, 07:34 PM

DaveMorris

11/02/2009, 08:09 PM

You can control an ATO out of the box with an RKE. I believe that both the Apex as well as the RKE need at least a float switch added.

James77

11/02/2009, 08:15 PM

thought of switching over to Apex from the RKE. Can you control ATO out of the box with the Apex? I read a review that you could, if that's true it'll be ready for my 75g out of the box but would need one more EB8 for the nano

All that is needed is/are the actual float switches- that goes for either the RK or Apex. There are 6 switch inputs on the Apex vs 2 on the RKE SL1 module.

unbreakable

11/02/2009, 08:28 PM

but youd have to buy an SL1 or SL2 to control ATO. Does the Apex already have that built in the module included in the package or do you have to buy the IO breakout box?

James77

11/02/2009, 08:37 PM

but youd have to buy an SL1 or SL2 to control ATO. Does the Apex already have that built in the module included in the package or do you have to buy the IO breakout box?

The SL1 comes with the RKElite package, and I believe the Levell III package as well.

The Apex has the 6 switch inputs built into the package.

James77

11/02/2009, 08:38 PM

The switch inputs are on the same module as the pH/ORP and dimmable outlets(the main unit)

jjk_reef00

11/03/2009, 12:53 AM

DaFishHead

11/20/2009, 10:58 PM

I've had great customer support from DA. One of my pc-4 stopped working after a while and they sent a new one to me right away. They didn't receive my 1st email, but I sent a 2nd email 2 days later and they fixed it in no time.

They also upgraded my from a v1 to v2 head unit because my v1 was acting up.
I love my RKE and cannot wait for the new features.

The only downside I can see for DA is that it takes them a while to get in new products when they are 1st released or out of stock. I've been waiting on pc-1 for a while now.

Good to hear. Maybe DA is getting the message that customer service is important.

As for my problem with my MH and my EB8, Neptune's customer service was amazing!! Curt from Neptune and I probably exchanged 30 e-mails or so as he evaluated the problem. Neptune even purchased a MH Ballast from Sunlight Supply to find out if they could reproduce my problem. Curt watched videos that I posted on you-tube too. When all was said and done, Neptune sent me a new EB8. The EB8 is in the mail and we believe that I may have just gotten a bad one out of the batch. I suppose that could happen with either controller. However I am VERY VERY VERY impressed with all of the steps that Neptune has taken so far to help fix the problem.

Daniel Reef

11/22/2009, 10:53 AM

Does anyone else have input on this topic? I am contemplating buying a controller next year and want to know as much as I can. Thanks.

jlenhardt

11/22/2009, 11:11 AM

I bought my first AC in 1996 and traded it in on their new model AC Pro in 1998 and it is still working perfectly to this day. Love my controller They are the best in my opinion. My wife told me I need to buy a backup so I will probably buy the Apex. I try to do what I'm told. I'm on the road alot and need to be able to check up my system on the computer.

luther1200

11/22/2009, 01:03 PM

[QUOTE=jjk_reef00;15960725]I've had great customer support from DA. One of my pc-4 stopped working after a while and they sent a new one to me right away. They didn't receive my 1st email, but I sent a 2nd email 2 days later and they fixed it in no time.

They also upgraded my from a v1 to v2 head unit because my v1 was acting up.
QUOTE]

You seem to be the exception. My V1 is still acting up nearly 5 months after I first told them about it. And I can't even remember the last time they sent me an e-mail back.

DaveMorris

11/22/2009, 02:21 PM

insane

11/26/2009, 09:37 AM

I have been researching controllers, visiting company websites, reading product manuals, checking out accessories and searching RC for info.

Things that are important to me on my quest for the best:
Expandability
Flexibility
Longevity
Company History
Customer Support
Technical Support
Repairs
Backwards Compatability
Remotely Programmable
Price
Built in Features

If I am going to dump this ammount of money in a unit, I don’t want a new version to come out and not be able to work with the old units accessories. Neptune has been around for a long time and they still sell what they had sold long ago. They don’t just come out with a new unit and leave the previous models behind. Neptune did come out with a new unit but they also still carry the originals. They do things so all of their units can be updated and added on to.

I had been seriously considering a RKE but an Apex pretty much has everything already built in so you don’t have to add this $100.00 module to do what an Apex does out of the box. Who wants to have to add this module and that module and the two new modules they just came out with just to do what the Apex does from the start. I see a lot of thinking that went into the design of the Apex whereas the RKE was released without having everything ready and in place first. Who wants to hear, “We are planning to do that in the near future” or “We are going to change/fix that in the next firmware update”?

The original RKs are not being sold anymore while the old Neptunes are. I want a company that has been around a long time, has a good reputation and I can be confident that they will be there for me tomorrow.

I don’t want to seem like I am slamming DA. I am just stating what I think based on what I have read in many places including their own website. Reading “Modules are NOT compatible with the RK1 or RK2 systems!, “That feature is in progress”, We will be talking soon about doing that”, “It should be in the next firmware update”, “ReefKeeper1 (RK1) Discontinued”, ReefKeeper 2 (RK2) Discontinued” and” Product Manuals ***In progress***”, makes me think they don’t want anyone being able to save some money by using their new stuff with their own old stuff so you have to buy everything new from them if you want any new features. They have designed add-ons at Neptune not only for the new Apex but they also designed the Apex to work with other older modules.

I am sure many people are content and happy being able to buy a base controller for $99.00 but I am thinking about what is ahead moreso than what I can do right now. I don’t want stuck with something that might be discontinued next year for a new model and have none of my stuff be able to work with it. If these controller companies would use universal control cables and signals their businesses would boom just the same as the special effect/theater lighting industry did when most companies went with DMX control protocol about 20 years ago. One companys’ controller will work with anothers power pack. Hint hint. Old controllers could work with new power packs. Old power packs could work with new controllers. Not just within a brand but cross brand. Once they can get past having proprietary protocol their businesses will really grow. Ones that don’t do it will be left in the dust the same as it happened in the entertainment industry.

With the history of Neptune and their controllers, I won’t have to worry that my soon to be bought Apex will be an obsolete dinosaur anytime soon.

I was just told last night that I was getting a present for Christmas that I will love. I have decided that it will be the Neptune Apex! It will be hard for them to top themselves with new add-ons but I am confident that they will.

On a side note. When you guys and gals do decide which controller you are going to buy, go to the “Sponsors” (http://reefcentral.com/index.php/sponsors/) page here on RC and use the links there to go and buy your unit or accessories. That way RC will get credit for the reefferal (pun intended) and you will be helping support RC.

And here you will find the Neptune Systems forum (http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=368) here on RC.

and the Digital Aquatics forum (http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=329) here on RC.

Big Country_IL

11/26/2009, 11:54 AM

Although it isn't an Apex, I did just buy a Neptune controller after hearing about poor customer service from Reef Keeper. I emailed a question shortly after setting it up (I misunderstood something in the instructions) during normal business hours and Neptune customer support responded within minutes. Problem resolved within 10 minutes. Overall it is an easy controller to use and I would assume the Apex is similar.

kimber45

11/26/2009, 09:35 PM

not sure where all the negative support from da came from but they have been excellent for me.

has everyone tried the forums?

mojo~

11/26/2009, 10:20 PM

I have called DA several times and they have always taken the time to help me with what ever I needed.

DaveMorris

11/26/2009, 10:36 PM

I too have had tremendous support from Digital Aquatics from the day I first received my RKE, which was part of the first shipment. I have never experienced any significant issues and was so impressed that I am now a beta tester for DA and am actively helping them in testing new modules and software.

I find it funny that someone would think that if they buy an RKL system today that it won't be supported in the future. The RKE and RKl systems were a significant change from how the RK1 and RK2 were built. Because both head units use the same modules, they will always be compatible. DA chose a specific way to design their system and didn't "forget" or "not plan for" future implementations. With the RKE/RKL system an aquarist can purchase a very powerful controller for $99 and it will grow with his or her needs for quite some time. When they hit the 4 module limit on the RKL, they can upgrade the head unit to an RKE and the four modules they already own will work with the RKE. There was no reason to make the system compatible with the RK2 or RK1, even if there was a way to do so. There would not have been much advantage to doing so. Both the RKE and the Apex are great systems. I expect both companies to be one-upping each other for years and we are the ones who will benefit from the competition driving innovation and price.

insane

11/27/2009, 05:00 AM

There was no reason to make the system compatible with the RK2 or RK1, even if there was a way to do so. There would not have been much advantage to doing so.

The only reason to do so would be to save their customers some money. That would be the only advantage in still being able to use some of your previously purchased equipment with a new controller.

bella127

11/27/2009, 09:19 AM

Nope. One light is a Galaxy Ballast on a RK2 and the other is a sunlight supply ballast on a Neptune apex. Problem is not related or even possibly related. So, Yes I can blame the controllers for that.

The RK2 outlets just stopped working.
The Apex has a hard time taking the current that is produced with my Dual 250 MH HQI. However it appears that Neptune is just going to replace my EB8 with a new one while DA did not even respond to my e-mails asking for help.

Isn't a galaxy ballast a sunlight supply ballast. I am pretty they are

mclaman

11/27/2009, 12:40 PM

Isn't a galaxy ballast a sunlight supply ballast. I am pretty they are

They are.

Shard

11/27/2009, 03:43 PM

wtafuro

11/27/2009, 03:59 PM

I currently have an RKE and have had nothing but bad experiences with DA, when I even get a timely response. Matter of fact, I seem to pick up some level of rudeness and quip from their responses to me via email and post. I have finally decided to give up on DA and will be switching from the RKE to the APEX on my main tank over the holidays. I just can't wait anymore for "coming soon" and "trust us.. it will work this time", "we promise it's going to be better", "more features on the way"...

You may want to wait until next week before you purchase the Apex. Seems that DA will be making an anouncement about new updates next week after the holidays.

Believe me I'm looking also but I have learned from experience that new electronic products tend to all have problems on startup. I want to wait and see what the new software looks like before I make a decision. Marketing systems without all the parts is very common in electronics. If they wait to long or until they have everything finished befor they start sales, they tend to run out of money for development. Sales on the systems are paying for the "new stuff".

Shard

11/27/2009, 04:09 PM

APEX has been out six months already.. It's not that new. I already got a semi response from DA.. 2.1 firmware will have control NOT programming... thats a major issue that sells me on the APEX..
The SL1 module does not have galvanically isolated ports.. hence you can get interference if you put two SL1 pH probes in the same water system.. meaning wrong readings.. that is dangerous if you it to control kalk dosing and/or a calcium reactor.
I called Neptune once and got someone on the phone..
Probably six phone calls to DA over the past year.. not once have I been able to speak to someone...
The problem with the RKE is that it is a limited piece of hardware in comparison to the APEX.. the APEX has more space for logging data.. and I believe a larger flash space for larger firmware... meaning more features... I could write pages about the possible hardware limitations the RKE has. The I2C bus control they use is really not sufficient for long distance communication for example.
Believe me.. I wish the RKE was a better product.. then I wouldn't have to switch to the APEX to get the features I need..
For the price the APEX is a better buy... I am tired of hearing "coming soon" from DA. They don't want to release details because they don't want the competition to know whats in store? If myReef V2 has been in development for over a year, and it is supposed to be out within the next month... and they are worried the competition is going to copy them.. it says volumes about their development abilities... 1 year to develop something they are scared the competition will be able to copy in 30 days?

Search around the forums here on RC.. you will find several people dumping the RKE for the APEX. I have yet to find anyone dumping the APEX for the RKE.. that says volumes about the two products.

sjm817

11/27/2009, 04:20 PM

If you have interest in controlling EcoTech Vortech powerheads via a reef controller, Neptune has announced that they will have this feature on the Apex. I haven't seen an announcement of support from DA yet.

http://www.neptunesys.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=55&Itemid=2

wtafuro

11/27/2009, 04:35 PM

APEX has been out six months already.. It's not that new. I already got a semi response from DA.. 2.1 firmware will have control NOT programming... thats a major issue that sells me on the APEX..

Shard

You are making a lot of good points on the systems. Fortunatlly I won't have to make a decision on this until sometime in January. I am just now putting my tank stand and equipment together.

Good learning on this thread.

Shard

11/27/2009, 04:37 PM

Anything to help.. Wish you luck!

Daniel Reef

11/27/2009, 04:56 PM

I will likely start my system in January too and so far for what I have read, I am leaning toward the Apex. The new announcement from DA is intriguing and I will look forward to it. Not sure if it will change my mind so far.

insane

11/27/2009, 06:29 PM

I find it funny that someone would think that if they buy an RKL system today that it won't be supported in the future.

Maybe because in the DA forum on here their very own spokesperson bragged on the RK2 about how it was a great part of their product line then and in the future?

Well this is the future and I don't see it in their lineup anymore. Are they still coming out with new modules for them?

What makes you think they will not be doing the exact same thing in discontinuing RKE and RKL when they come up with a new controller and not do what they have already done with the last two models?

Did you also say the same thing about RK1 and RK2? Show me even one single new module for them on their website. Or even one original module that they still make and sell.

I find it funny too.

spoofer

11/27/2009, 06:57 PM

i got say - there are way to many consitant reports of good quality and service for a little extra cash on the APEX and the DA seems to be hit or miss.... i'm going for the APEX.... I'll keep you posted..thanks everyone for the input- it makes it so much easier to decide.

serum153

11/27/2009, 08:13 PM

Several people switching from apex to rke definitely doesn't speak volumes about the products. Shard has been bashing da for a while now and I can't wait until he gets an apex so that I don't have to see his posts regarding his rke system. Why not spend 10 extra bucks to get an sl2 that you can use for the 2nd ph probe and also monitor salinity? I assume that you read somewhere on the neptune forums that the sl1 doesn't have galvanically isolated ports. god forbid you add a module that you can do more with.

I don't think there is a right or wrong one to go with as these 2 companies will always be one upping eachother, just like sony and samsung, microsoft and sony, ati and nvidia. One will always be better then the other for a little bit.

James77

11/27/2009, 09:09 PM

Several people switching from apex to rke definitely doesn't speak volumes about the products.

Yes, it does. There are not many, if any, Apex users switching to RKE. I switched because RKE made me wait far too long for some of the most basic features. They control neither Tunze nor Vortechs, and God knows when the Tunze module will be released. Vortech allowing 3rd party control? DA did not even bother to comment on it, let alone say they will go for controlling them. Neptune has controlled Tunzes for years, and will have Vortech early next.

There are also many complaints of mediocre service from DA, but those don't speak volumes either?

I assume that you read somewhere on the neptune forums that the sl1 doesn't have galvanically isolated ports.

Looks like he might have read it on the DigitalAquatics forum, straight from them:

The SL2's pH and Salinity ports are individually isolated. The ports on the SL1 are not. That is one reason for the prices difference - it's an added feature.

Here is the thread it came from:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1742832&highlight=galvanically

DaveMorris

11/27/2009, 09:26 PM

A couple things to note:

DA does still support the RK2, they just are not making it anymore. You can still get it serviced and you can still get replacement parts for it. The RK2 and RK1 were both designed and built as stand alone, non expandable systems. Highly successful systems at that. The RKE/RKL line is designed completely different and does not facilitate expanding the RK2 and RK1 for a number of reasons. Just because Neptune does it with their system doesn't make it automatically better. The cost for the pre-APex Neptune systems has also been significantly higher than the RK2 was.

As far as the idea that you can not program your RKE or RKL via a computer, that is not entirely true. The firmware alone will not make that happen, but the myReef software will. This was mentioned on the DA forum a while back.

I also have to laugh at the premature Vortech support announcement from Neptune. GHL has been saying the same thing for 6 months. Where are the modules? Come on...if they have been in development and "have working prototypes on the bench" where are the modules? What are they waiting for? This stuff takes time. We will always be seeing things launched in different time frames.

I have said many times...both systems are very powerful and do quite a lot to make our lives easier and provide stability to our tanks. Do your research and make a choice. With all of the help for both systems available online figuring out which one has the features, service, etc. that you want/need shouldn't be too hard. Different people have different things that are important to them.

James77

11/27/2009, 09:31 PM

I also have to laugh at the premature Vortech support announcement from Neptune. GHL has been saying the same thing for 6 months.

Neptune has done pretty well by their announced deadlines, so I don't see why you consider it a joke. Were you laughing at all of DA's endless delays?

As far as I have read, GHL has only said they were ready to work with Ecotech, and were simply waiting on Ecotech. I'd hazard to guess that both Neptune and GHL will have Vortech modules out long before DA even announces theirs.

serum153

11/27/2009, 09:43 PM

The thread you posted was his question that he already knew the answer to slick.

These two companies are heavyweights that will always be fighting to be great and we consumers just get to reap the benefits.

serum153

11/27/2009, 09:47 PM

I do like the way the apex shows the temp and ph. I hope digital aquatics makes it so that you can see multiple things on teh home screen

sjm817

11/27/2009, 09:51 PM

EcoTech announced the feature on 11/13. Neptune announced on 11/17. I'm not sure why anyone who read the announcements would think that modules would be available. Its an upcoming feature. The fact that Neptune has a history of controlling pumps (Tunze) and has made an announcement would at least for now, seem to be a better bet if this feature is one that is important to you.

Control, a little more of it never hurt.

We are extremely excited to announce the release of a development kit for third-party aquarium controller companies allowing them to create a wireless interface to our VorTech aquarium pumps.

In addition to offering customizable controllability of the VorTech remotely through your controller, EcoTech customers will be able to download firmware updates and be remotely updated as to the operating conditions of the VorTech. The limits of this platform are vast and are only just beginning to emerge as controller companies take interest and start working with the development kit.

This kit will be available to the industry’s leading controller companies and we are working diligently with them to wrap up the arrangements necessary to bring controller interfaces to production. While we know that there are still many unanswered questions and we are working to provide those answers to you, this is all the information that we are able to announce at this time.

Stay tuned for further announcements as controller companies begin their efforts with us to bring this desired technology to market.

James77

11/27/2009, 09:56 PM

The thread you posted was his question that he already knew the answer to slick.

And? I couldn't care less if he knew the answer or not. DA themselves stated it was true. You implied that the statement was incorrect because you assumed he read it off Neptune forums. Even if he did, it is still true that the SL1 does not have galvanically isolated ports.

Your post:
I assume that you read somewhere on the neptune forums that the sl1 doesn't have galvanically isolated ports.

insane

11/27/2009, 10:27 PM

As far as the idea that you can not program your RKE or RKL via a computer, that is not entirely true. The firmware alone will not make that happen, but the myReef software will. This was mentioned on the DA forum a while back..

The keyword here being WILL. You not being able to program your reefkeeper with your computer right now is absolutely true. You cannot do it unless you are one of them or are a beta tester for them. As for being mentioned by them, they do mention things, promise things, refuse to answer things such as direct questions, emails, phone calls.

Now do a search in the used good for sale forum for Elite then do one for Apex. One Apex is for sale while countless dozens of RK Elites are being dumped all over the place. That speaks volumes in itself even if DA support won't speak to you. People are tired of it and it shows.

A company that makes its' products backwards compatable IS automaticaly better than one that doesn't. They aren't just thinking about themselves, they are thinking about their customers and their previous products.

Any person with no knowledge of either company can see for themselves in the words from the company representatives exactly how they will be handled if and when they have a problem with the product. Many will base their purchasing descision on that alone.

I also have to laugh at the premature Vortech support announcement from Neptune. GHL has been saying the same thing for 6 months.

And what exactly does GHL have to do with a debate between a RKE and an Apex? Not a thing and that was a very weak attempt to defend DA. Let's try to stick to the topic of the OP. DA is the one that repeatedly falls behind on their promises and features. Apex already runs Tunze. They (Neptune) have been running them for years. Does any RK model do that? Even one ever?

insane

11/27/2009, 10:33 PM

And the announcement from Neptune.

Vortech Press Release
Neptune Systems Announces New Product for EcoTech Marine’s VorTech Pumps

November 17, 2009—San Jose, CA— Neptune Systems, the leading manufacturer of aquarium controllers is developing a wireless interface which will allow for the control of EcoTech Marine’s line of VorTech wireless pumps.

“We are extremely excited about this new product”, says Curt Pansegrau, president of Neptune Systems. “The feature rich interface module allows for the market leading VorTech pumps to be used to their fullest potential. With development underway and prototypes already running in the lab, we are pleased to be the first controller company to utilize this versatile wireless interface technology.”

The AquaBus based VorTech interface module will allow for the independent control of multiple pumps. In addition, firmware updates of both the interface and the VorTech pumps as wells as reporting of pump status and diagnostic information is possible. Like all Apex accessories the VorTech Interface Module is also plug-n-play, so setup and configuration is extremely easy.

Internal development has already begun with working prototypes running in the lab. Beta testing will begin shortly with full production scheduled in Q1 2010.

Visit www.neptunesys.com for news, information, and product descriptions.

:rollface:

Johnnydee

11/27/2009, 10:46 PM

This is going to be a tough choice. They both look awesome.

tamu

11/27/2009, 11:09 PM

This is going to be a tough choice. They both look awesome.

Not if you have used both systems on your tank. The Apex is above and beyond, in my opinion.

So much is built into the Apex already, that the RKE is still possibly trying to add with a new myReef which has to run on your computer.

DaveMorris

11/27/2009, 11:43 PM

And what exactly does GHL have to do with a debate between a RKE and an Apex? Not a thing and that was a very weak attempt to defend DA. Let's try to stick to the topic of the OP. DA is the one that repeatedly falls behind on their promises and features. Apex already runs Tunze. They (Neptune) have been running them for years. Does any RK model do that? Even one ever?

The point I was trying to make is that we as fickle consumers, will crucify a company when they put out a deadline and then don't meet it. DA has definately had their issues with this in the past. I don't blame them for not announcing any development that they do or do not have ongoing with the Vortech. It is, of course, a gamble because either option has its drawbacks. I brought up GHL as an example because I see no benefit in telling us consumers that we are working on it and waiting for the other company to work with us. People complain about that stuff all the time.

I have not seen, nor do I currently have any software or hardware from DA that isn't currently available to the general public. I have been happy with their products for years and I still am. That is why I continue to support them. If you don't like their marketing practices or their products, then don't buy them. It is the beauty of the capitalist market system. For those people who have had a bad experience dealing with them or their products, I only hope that DA will hear the complaints and address them. If they don't, then the market will bear that out.

James77

11/27/2009, 11:52 PM

I see no benefit in telling us consumers that we are working on it and waiting for the other company to work with us.

If a companies own deadlines can be met, then it is great for us consumers to know what is coming down the road. People that have equipment, like Vortechs, who are looking for a controller will want to know who is planning what. If a company makes numerous deadlines and breaks them all the time, they deserve to be crucified. It shows a lack of having a grip on what they are trying to accomplish.

GHL has an excellent track record of following their own deadlines, the Profilux 3 proves that. They gave that deadline out in the spring IIRC. Neptune has also done well on holding deadlines.

mclaman

12/10/2009, 06:28 PM

I was honestly dissapointed when DA announced a couple of days ago that they won't meet their own deadline of Q4 for MyReef. Now it is being pushed out to April of 2010. This is honestly frustrating for someone that bought the RKE over a year and a half ago.

Shard

12/10/2009, 06:38 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHA.... I have been saying that for a while. It is sad when people on DAs on forums were willing to bet $1000 it wouldn't be out this year.. I knew better than to take up that bet.. seems they were right.. as was I.

Shard

12/10/2009, 06:47 PM

Within the next two months this decision will be made very clear. myReef should help a lot with that when it is released.

Your right.... the decision is clear... now with the delay going for another 4 months because they can't meet their own Q4 2009 deadline... meaning over 16 months of waiting for myReef... Neptune Apex is the clear choice....

insane

12/10/2009, 07:05 PM

Is anyone really surprised?

Daniel Reef

12/10/2009, 07:14 PM

I'm new to this controller debate so I am disappointed that DA did not meet its own deadline. Although I will likely not even purchase a controller until around April 2010, I will likely go with Apex given the things that I have read about RKE and DA these past few months.

Wilberheim

12/10/2009, 07:23 PM

Daniel Reef

12/10/2009, 07:30 PM

Any speculations for an app for the APEX on the android OS? Reason being is I just got a DROID and I have an apex on the way to me.

Im sure it will come sooner or later if it's not already out since andriod is very very quickly becoming prominent in the cell phone industry.

I asked this same question in the Neptune forum. But I didn't get a clear answer. I am deciding whether to get a Droid myself.

Wilberheim

12/10/2009, 07:36 PM

I asked this same question in the Neptune forum. But I didn't get a clear answer. I am deciding whether to get a Droid myself.

AMAZING PHONE. Not trying to get off topic, But it would be an awsome platform for a nice app to control your tank from the road.

Only issue I have with the phone so far is the texting app has to "force close" but works immediatly after agian. I would highly reccomend you get one.

James77

12/10/2009, 07:59 PM

Is anyone really surprised?

I was actually a little. I knew they would miss the end of the year, I was figuring by a month or two. 5 months, and even that is not definite. :lol:

tamu

12/10/2009, 08:01 PM

Any speculations for an app for the APEX on the android OS? Reason being is I just got a DROID and I have an apex on the way to me.

Im sure it will come sooner or later if it's not already out since andriod is very very quickly becoming prominent in the cell phone industry.

It will have to come from someone in the community, like the iPhone App did. I have a BB and use the tankManager site that Ken wrote. It is great. It gives you the ability to control all the outlets and look at graphs. Not as cool as an app, but very useful.

James77

12/10/2009, 08:16 PM

On a more positive note, if anyone is in the market for a used RKE, I foresee alot of them in the next couple weeks.

insane

12/10/2009, 08:52 PM

I was actually a little. I knew they would miss the end of the year, I was figuring by a month or two. 5 months, and even that is not definite. :lol:

The same thing was done with Bio Shock 2 for PS3. Next quarter. I was shocked and dismayed! This is me being dismayed >>> :crazy1:
I still plan on getting it though & an APEX!

Shard

12/10/2009, 09:45 PM

Do people know that the parent company of DA is Dynon Avionics? Makes you feel real safe to fly doesn't it? If they cant even produce tank controller features and functions in a timely proper fashion, how are they capable of producing AVIONICS EQUIPMENT!

braddo

12/11/2009, 12:45 AM

Luckily Dynon avionics aren't certified by the FAA so the only time you might find yourself flying with their equipment is when taking a ride in your buddies homebuilt plane. :)

Takara

12/11/2009, 12:48 AM

I'm hoping the RKE's go cheap used from people switching to APEX, even if it isn't the best if the price is right ;)

tamu

12/11/2009, 07:07 AM

is the apex lite worth it? or should i just ge the regular one?
sorry for piggy backing

It depends if you want Tunze control or the ability to dim ballasts. If so, go with the regular version.

UFreefer

12/11/2009, 07:27 AM

AMAZING PHONE. Not trying to get off topic, But it would be an awsome platform for a nice app to control your tank from the road.

Have an APEX and love it! Curt's customer serivces is unreal...He's responded to my emails/called me on Sundays to help me set it up. I also have the DROID phone and its the most amazing phone I've used. It controls the Apex controller very well just by accessing my APEX homepage...I really see no need for an app.

Daniel Reef

12/11/2009, 07:50 AM

What ballasts can you use that can be dimmed?

Wilberheim

12/11/2009, 08:15 AM

Have an APEX and love it! Curt's customer serivces is unreal...He's responded to my emails/called me on Sundays to help me set it up. I also have the DROID phone and its the most amazing phone I've used. It controls the Apex controller very well just by accessing my APEX homepage...I really see no need for an app.

I hadn't even thought about just logging into that from the browser. I guess when you look at it that way there is no need for the app. Although it would still be neat to maybe stream line it a little bit.

sjm817

12/11/2009, 08:23 AM

Same here. I access my ACIII from the regular Blackberry browser. Cant see what an app really does for you above that.

Daniel Reef

12/11/2009, 08:26 AM

I prefer apps because they are formatted for the screen and are easier to utilize. I don't have to worry about resizing the webpage or moving from one side of the webpage to the other in order to access the information that I want/need.

sjm817

12/11/2009, 08:30 AM

Here is the ACIII on a BB. You have to scroll up and down a little, but that is because the BB screen is small.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a370/Cheerleader555240/DSC_4107.jpg

Daniel Reef

12/11/2009, 08:40 AM

That doesn't look bad at all.

sjm817

12/11/2009, 09:21 AM

I was actually surprised first time I tried it. Works really well.

Shard

12/11/2009, 03:16 PM

insane

12/11/2009, 03:29 PM

Its so cool you guys have web control, and web apps for control. Maybe one day DA will get a clue and catch up. I guess I shouldn't be so negative on DA (even if it is the truth). The mods might lock this thread also.

I for one appreciate your honesty and bluntness. I don't own a controller yet but I read things everywhere, good and bad, about the two that are in my price range ($500.00 to $700.00) and that is how I make my decision on which way to go. I want as much for my money as I can get and I don't want it to become obsolete within a few years where there are no more new additions for the controller I buy.

Shard

12/11/2009, 03:56 PM

The RKE does work with the features it has now that they spent over a year working out the bugs.. the problem is it just doesn't have as many features as the Apex... For a lot of us.. web control and programming is a big feature, its the whole reason I need a controller. In my view... what good is a controller you cannot control remotely, if not program also?

DA keeps saying they are bringing control.. but the key thing to remember is control means on/off features, but you won't be able to program or change the settings on a channel. They say control (not programming afaik) is coming in version 2.1 or 2.2 firmware, but who knows when that is going to arrive? They are constantly late. myReef has been "coming out in 2009" this entire year and part of last, now it is delayed again until April 2010? I wish DA would hire some coders who were good, efficient, and quick, and would tell us what features are coming, but that is not the case.
The 2.0 firmware isn't even out yet.. and won't be until January at the soonest, and it might not have control (remember that may be in 2.1 or 2.2)

The ironic thing is they said the 2.0 wouldn't be out until january for atleast a month now, but maintained until the other day that myReef would be, even though 2.0+ firmware is a requirement for myreef? I extrapolated weeks ago from this myReef would not be here by the end of the year, and sure enough I was right. They could have just told us they were going to disappoint us yet again months ago probably, but thats not the case.

Considering they usually release about 2 firmware updates a year. (When I bought my RKE back in Oct/Nov 08 I think 1.10 was the firmware revision that was out). Will it be another year before 2.2 firmware gets here? In the entire time I have owned the RKE the firmware has only been updated from 1.10 to 1.11 for some of the modules, and 1.12 for some others, and only two newer modules sport a firmware revision title of 1.13 or 1.14. All of these are mostly just bug fixes and compatibility patches with no significant feature additions at all (I think one of the only features added to the NET module in this time was the ability to change the http port for example)

Believe me. I wish the RKE was an equal product to the Apex. Afterall, I have already spent a lot of money on the RKE, but my faith in DA catching up is next to none, not to mention my crappy customer service experiences (just one example: still waiting since Nov20th to get a response about fixing a LED on one of my PC4s). It actually hurts my future prospects with the system to tell the truth like this, because it hurts DA's sales, therefore their revenue, and the ability to do more research/work to catch up. That said, I feel like it is better to let other people know the truth instead of lie about my experience, even if it is not in my best interest. It is nice to hear from someone that they appreciate the honesty and bluntness.

Daniel Reef

12/11/2009, 05:13 PM

I appreciate your honesty Shard. I originally planned on purchasing an RKE for my tank rebuild next year because I was unaware of Apex. I have since learned about Apex on RC and given everything that I read and experiences like your own, I have decided that Apex is the product that I will purchase. Controlling and programming remotely is a big feature for me. I plan on going on vacations out of state and possibly out of the country. The idea of a controller piqued my interest because of my intent to feel somewhat secure while on vacation. But realizing that only Apex truly has this feature opened my eyes and was the straw that made me decide to switch from RKE to Apex. I also read a thread about a month ago where someone inquired about interest in a DROID version of Aquanotes that the poster was going to develop. Unfortunately, I couldn't find the thread. Because there is a good possibility that I may get a DROID phone by the end of the year and I have an IPod Touch, I want the flexibility to have control on both platforms. Anyway, I hope it works out with your circumstances.

braddo

01/12/2010, 11:53 PM

I have to agree with Shard, being a ReefKeeper Lite owner I desperately want to like Digital Aquatics and be a ReefKeeper fan boy. However I feel like I am continually left waiting for promised features. I've seen a lot of posts here telling other members to calm down and to not get so upset about DA delays and that delays are common with all companies and products. I agree that many products slip their release date however there is something about the way DA handles the slips that really rub me the wrong way. Time after time they announce a product and a release time frame only to have it fall into oblivion. When they are questioned on why the product isn't out they give unfriendly responses like "we never said that" or "the quarter isn't over yet!" and again the product is never released. When questioned again 'when the quarter is over' you find out their priorties have shifted to another product.

Even with all the 'attitude' I feel like DA throws around here and their own support forums I planned to stick with them and even planned to upgrade to the Elite. I still actively promote the ReefKeeper Lite basic to those who ask questions about it, for $100 I think its a tough product to beat.

Today in DA's 2.0 firmware announcement they seemed to elude to the fact that you would need a computer connetced via the SID to control the RK remotely and it wouldnt be possible to control the RK over the net solely using their NET module. Since I don't want a PC hardwired to my aquarium I will now have an APEX on order shortly. :(

DaveMorris

01/13/2010, 12:11 AM

Today in DA's 2.0 firmware announcement they seemed to elude to the fact that you would need a computer connetced via the SID to control the RK remotely and it wouldnt be possible to control the RK over the net solely using their NET module. Since I don't want a PC hardwired to my aquarium I will now have an APEX on order shortly. :(

Actually what they eluded to was that myReef will need to be attached to the system via the SID module. The remote control is not directly a part of myReef. It is part of the 2.0 firmware and you will be able to control the system from the web via a NET module. Since the myReef software will be free, I do not think that it would go over well if DA required you to buy a NET module in order to use the "free" software. There are multiple things at work here.

braddo

01/13/2010, 02:10 AM

Fair enough, I jumped to conclusions here and apologize for spreading any possible misinformation. It was poor wording on my part when I posed the question to DA. They list SID 2.0 as a REQUIREMENT for myReef. I was looking for clarification on whether SID was actually a requirement or if the NET module could be used as the link when available.
I will reword the question on their forum to see if I get a better response.

The only hint of remote control ability with the 2.0 firmware was this listed feature.
-NET security setting (restrict remote control)
Nowhere have I read that 2.0 expressly allows remote control from the web.
From one of your older quotes,where someone asked about the possibility of web based remote control you state that myReef will be needed.http://www.forum.digitalaquatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3077&p=13499&hilit=remote#p13499

mixer911

01/13/2010, 12:00 PM

Actually what they eluded to was that myReef will need to be attached to the system via the SID module. The remote control is not directly a part of myReef. It is part of the 2.0 firmware and you will be able to control the system from the web via a NET module. Since the myReef software will be free, I do not think that it would go over well if DA required you to buy a NET module in order to use the "free" software. There are multiple things at work here.

So can you use the net module with the "free" my reef software with the RKE? Kinda dumb to have to hardwire that to a PC if not.

JonnyD91

01/13/2010, 12:33 PM

I have my APEX on order. I will be making a bunch of apps when i get it in. The quickest for me to make will prob. be for windows mobile 6. But it think im going to start with a Windows vista/7 gadget for the PC. I will be looking into blackberry and DROID after that.

DaveMorris

01/13/2010, 12:47 PM

The only hint of remote control ability with the 2.0 firmware was this listed feature.
-NET security setting (restrict remote control)
Nowhere have I read that 2.0 expressly allows remote control from the web.

You missed a line:

ReefKeeper™ Elite
-New and improved graphics, menu flow and general look and feel.
-Advanced module capable.
--What is an advanced module?
---RD1
---NET 2.0
---SID 2.0 (Needed for myReef™)
-NET module control (on/off/auto)
-NET security setting (restrict remote control)

Channel programming looks like it will still be done either on the head unit or through myReef. Turning channels on and off remotely and monitoring the system will not require myReef.

As far as the earlier post about needing myReef for remote control, obviously I had misunderstood. I am going off what has been most recently posted. Sorry to confuse things.:twitch:

DaveMorris

01/13/2010, 12:53 PM

So can you use the net module with the "free" my reef software with the RKE? Kinda dumb to have to hardwire that to a PC if not.

I'm not sure I understand the question. You have to use a PC to run the software anyway. If you are asking if you can use myReef to program the RKE via the NET module and not the SID, then I believe the answer is no. That is how it was posted by DA. I don't see a whole lot of scenarios where I would want to do much more than turning something on or off unless I was at my tank anyway. Some people may want to make adjustments to their programming remotely, but I sure wouldn't. I won't make any changes like that unless I can see first hand what effect it has on my system. Aside from that, you can always set it up to remotely control the computer that is connected to your RKE.

peiloy3196

01/13/2010, 01:34 PM

Does NET 2.0 mean that there is going to be a second version of the net module that we need to buy? Or does it mean that the software on the net module will have to be updated to 2.0?

DaveMorris

01/13/2010, 03:49 PM

Does NET 2.0 mean that there is going to be a second version of the net module that we need to buy? Or does it mean that the software on the net module will have to be updated to 2.0?

It represents the new version number of the firmware for the entire system. All modules will need to be updated to the 2.0 firmware. Nothing needs to be purchased for it to work.

mixer911

01/13/2010, 05:04 PM

I'm not sure I understand the question. You have to use a PC to run the software anyway. If you are asking if you can use myReef to program the RKE via the NET module and not the SID, then I believe the answer is no. That is how it was posted by DA. I don't see a whole lot of scenarios where I would want to do much more than turning something on or off unless I was at my tank anyway. Some people may want to make adjustments to their programming remotely, but I sure wouldn't. I won't make any changes like that unless I can see first hand what effect it has on my system. Aside from that, you can always set it up to remotely control the computer that is connected to your RKE.

I would want remote programing capibility. Things can go wrong when out of town or you are not at the location where the head unit is. I have tanks that I monitor that are not here with me and to be able to make those changes on the fly would be a lot nicer than having to drive there, hook up the laptop and then program, or use the head unit display. Not only that, why have to hook up a USB to a portable to change the settings with myreef. Ethernet just seems a lot more logical to me. Most everyone has a network already setup, not a computer near their tank :confused:

DaveMorris

01/14/2010, 02:29 AM

Daniel Reef

01/14/2010, 07:46 AM

n2585722

01/14/2010, 07:52 AM

I would have to agree with Dave on this. There is no way I would attempt to change programming remotely. It is too easy to make a error and not be there to notice till it’s too late. Also if it was working properly in the first place and a problem occurred it means something is wrong. Remotely you would be relying on sensors that could be what is causing the problem. Not to mention being venerable to hackers with $$$ worth investment on the line with online programming.

Danny

Daniel Reef

01/14/2010, 08:00 AM

If you are going to go through the trouble of buying a controller with net capabilties, setting up an ethernet connection with a PC (or a wireless adapter), receiving internet updates about your tank from a remote laptop or your PDA, why not just spring for a remote controlled webcam so that you can view your tank, rather than being away out of state or out of the country knowing that there is potentially a problem with your tank but you are helpless to do anything about it. There are limitations of course, but if you can visually confirm some situations, why not spend the extra money for some extra sense of security?

mixer911

01/14/2010, 09:59 AM

Well obviously different people do things different ways. That is just how they designed it. Personally, I would never adjust programming parameters when I was away from my tank. I would want to see that what I did didn't screw up something else. I actually have a dedicated PC set up for my tank anyway. If I really wanted to remotely program it, I could log in and take over that machine. I really doubt that I will do that though. I don't imagine ever doing anything remotely besides turning channels on and off.

You are correct and glad there are other options out there. We all know saltwater and electronics, especially a computer tower with fans sucking in air, do not mix. And not everyone can afford this option either. Not only does someone have to buy the controller and modules, now they have to buy a PC and stick it near their tank. I understand your logic in not wanting to program the controller from a remote location, but what about the people who only want a ethernet cable run to their controller to allow programing from the next room, where their computer is in a office or bedroom? Who would make an ethernet controller and limit the capibilites to it?

cbrguy

01/14/2010, 11:04 AM

I am not happy that they are going to use MyReef as the method to program the RKE. I don't understand why the didn't just have it all built into the net module. I can understand not wanting to do any remote changes (I feel the same way) but I would like to sit in my office and make changes while I'm home. Not in my basement holding a laptop connected to my RKE over my 100 gallon sump. Also, this makes it harder for people with a MAC.

n2585722

01/15/2010, 07:57 AM

cbrguy

Ok, max usb length is 15ft. If that is not enough you can get extenders that use cat 5 cable to extend the USB up to 150 ft. I think they cost less than $50. Just googlle "usb max length". Hopefully that is long enough to make it to the closest computer.

Danny

DaveMorris

01/15/2010, 06:27 PM

andywe

01/16/2010, 11:15 PM

Another way to extend the lenght is to use a powered usb hub. Theya re very cheap, and repeat the signal (at least mine does). That can but you some extra length.

luther1200

01/17/2010, 02:51 AM

The point I was trying to make is that we as fickle consumers, will crucify a company when they put out a deadline and then don't meet it. DA has definately had their issues with this in the past. .

So we are now fickle consumers because we expect a company to keep to there word??

n2585722

01/17/2010, 08:17 AM

Luther

Dates given for release of new product that are still in development are estimated at best. If everything goes right(mostly never happens) the release can be before date given. If unexpected things happen dates have to be pushed out. It happens all the time even with the likes of Microsoft & Boeing. It is just as disappointing to the company as their customers. Giving dates too far out in the future is not very good either but it would keep them from ever missing a release date. The only way to give a definite date is if everything is already done and it is just a matter of shipping or releasing the product. So be disappointed or upset but don't keep beating them up over it. If we do they may just keep quiet and not say anything about their intentions. I for one think that would be worse than them missing a few dates. The way they are doing it at least I know what they are planning to do and how long they think it will take them to do it.

Danny

n2585722

01/17/2010, 08:27 AM

cbrguy

01/17/2010, 08:55 AM

Actually you can run USB cables quite a bit longer than 15'. I believe this all revolves around how often you need to tweak the programming on your system. If you are doing it all the time, then this setup would not be super convenient for you. If you only have to adjust the programming every few months or so, like I expect most people are, then it really isn't a problem.

My point was that no one wants to run wires through their house. especially when we have wireless routers. And IMO It's just silly to use windows based software, when just about everything can be accomplished via a web app.

n2585722

01/17/2010, 09:19 AM

cbrguy

I guess I am different then. I have CAT 5 outlets in every room except the bathrooms. Some rooms even have more than one outlet. Google wireless USB extender. Would this work for you? As far as the Mac I think some people have used it to program their modules. I think it requires the right software to do. You can always bring this point up on the DA website forum and see what they have to say. I can see your point but they haven't released much info as to what can be done through the net verses the SID. If it was accessible through the net module it could be accessed through the Internet

Danny

braddo

01/18/2010, 12:02 AM

@Danny its not that the company misses the dates they announce its how they handle the slips. For example the latest firmware revision was supposed to be released on 1-2-10. When I asked on 1-2-10 they, after some coercion, said that the firmware was done but being held back until the manual was completed. Finally on Friday 1-15-01 they released the new firmware update package. However if you look at the modified dates for the individual firmware files you can see that many of the files were still being edited long past 1-2-10 and the firmware for their NET module has a last modified time of less than 1hr before they released to the public. To top it off the NET firmware didn't work when released and required another release.

Again I don't so much mind a company missing a release date as explicitly lying to me and giving me patronizing answers.

DaveMorris

01/18/2010, 12:42 AM

So what is DA supposed to do if they have the firmware finished, are waiting for the manual to be finished, and in the mean time find something else in the software that needs to be fixed? Are they going to not fix it because they are worried about somebody such as yourself checking revision dates to make sure that you aren't being lied to? I don't know anything about programming this stuff, but how do you know that the firmware wasn't finished and the final release file was only compiled right before release? BTW...I had no problem at all with the NET firmware, as it was released, so I'm not sure what you are referring to. The very notion that DA explicitly lied to you makes no sense either. I never realized how many controller manufacturing specialist were out here on RC. It seems that all of you know more about designing and building these systems than DA does. Maybe you should give them a call to tell them how to do it all.

braddo

01/18/2010, 01:10 AM

I tried they never responded. :) I have 10 years of experiece releasing software and consumer electronics and live very near their headquarters.

Most companies keep seperate version. Once a piece of code has been completed and signed off on you don't touch it and instead continue working on a copy of the code that way no bugs are introduced at the last minute.

If you dont believe me about the NET issue take a look at the DA support forums. I wasn't the only one to hit the problem and they had to make a last minute fix and release.

braddo

01/18/2010, 01:12 AM

Obviously I have had some bad experiences with DA so I'll stop taking jabs here and just leave the thread alone.

n2585722

01/18/2010, 02:44 AM

braddo, I can see you point but all modules are actually v 2.00 and it is unfinished. So maybe they just made the call to release a later copy of all the modules firmware because of last minute improvements that they felt were worth incorporating in this release. I don't think they had any intentions of deceiving anyone. In my opinion I don't even think it was intentional that they give the 1/2 release date for firmware even if it was releasable at that time. After reading their post I think the release was for the preorder of the RKL with the Net package and not the firmware. The way it was worded it led everyone to believe it was firmware to be released also on 1/2. I know when posting on the forums I have written things that didn't necessarily come out the way they were meant to. It's not like they are getting proof read before the statements are released. It is kind of informal and should be considered that way. My system is the RKE so I am still waiting for 2.00 but with this release it give me a peek at what is to come. As far as the dates on the files it would have been easy enough to change the date on the computer then compile them before the release if they were trying to deceive us. You might just write them and give them your constructive criticism it can't hurt.

Danny

mixer911

01/18/2010, 11:01 AM

My point was that no one wants to run wires through their house. especially when we have wireless routers. And IMO It's just silly to use windows based software, when just about everything can be accomplished via a web app.

+1 - I am just Glad the APEX has a web app and is accessable via its ethernet port! Since this a REK vs APEX thread, for those just scanning and not reading our jabber. This should sum up the past few days of discussion.

APEX - Remote programable via ethernet from day 1 of ownership.

RKE - Needs to be teathered to a computer via USB or bus cable (phone cable RJ-11) when you want to program it with the MyReef software, when that is released.

braddo

01/18/2010, 11:59 AM

braddo, I can see you point but all modules are actually v 2.00 and it is unfinished.

What firmware version number should I have expected to see released for my modules? Certainly not 1.10 since some modules were already up to firmware version 1.14.

Version 2.00 is not available for the RKE head unit but who said version 2.00 is unfinished as far as the modules are concerned? I would hope they didn't release it without fully testing it or at least calling it a beta firmware.

andywe

01/18/2010, 12:03 PM

The v200 firmware was only released in the RKL section and when programming a module with V200 the programmer even has a popup stating it is for the RKL only. As it stands now, V200 is only modules connected to RKL systems. That will change when DA will then release a new package to include the RKE.

DaveMorris

01/18/2010, 04:23 PM

If you dont believe me about the NET issue take a look at the DA support forums. I wasn't the only one to hit the problem and they had to make a last minute fix and release.

I never said that I didn't believe you. I said that I haven't had any trouble with mine. The point I was trying to make is that if the testing occurred on my setup, or one like mine, it would have been deemed ready to go. Obviously there are a lot of things that influence this stuff and different configurations may have a lot to do with it.

I really don't know what you living near them or having software and consumer electronics background has to do with this. Unless you have been designing and building aquarium controllers it really doesn't matter.

My only issue with any of these threads, or more speccifically a lot of the posts in them, is the constant attacks and badgering as you put it toward DA. When you go back and read through a lot of this stuff you can really see who has a grudge and who doesn't. Expressing opions and sharing personal experiences is what these forums are for, but bashing the manufacturer accomplishes nothing. I haven't really seen that from you, so please understand that I am making a very general statement here. Take this thread...it has morphed pretty far away from what the original post asked about. I am guilty of helping that process along just as much as others. When that happens, and we all argue back and forth it really doesn't do munch to address the original question.

braddo

01/18/2010, 04:43 PM

It doesn't matter if its a cell phone, an mp3 player, an aquarium controller or simply a stand alone piece of software, the same basic development and testing practices apply. I sent them a message offering my service to make the product better, they never responded. Living near by I would have been happy to come in for focus group and usability testing.

FirstContact

01/18/2010, 05:21 PM

Competition and having choices between manufacturers in the hobby is a good thing. Sometimes companies rush to be first to market with their innovations. Microsoft's Xbox 360 comes to mind with QC issues at release date. Luckily their backdated warranty came into affect the day after mine stopped working. I've owned one for years, and think it's awesome. But, I think I would have been pretty angry at shelling out $450 and then having to pay for a new one less than a year after purchase. I like the look of DA products and think they've done great things for the aquarium hobby. I would certainly be willing to purchase an RKE controller from them. I just don't think I'll be one of the first to pony up after March when new product modifications are made. I'd rather wait and see if the product has any more issues before supporting DA.

Midnightsun

02/11/2010, 06:20 AM

Wow, awesome thread and glad I found it. I actually have a RKL3on order but the darn thing is BO. Was promissed 2 weeks ago they would have it but still no go. I decided to cancel and am looking into alternatives mainly the RKE however.... If there is one thing that ticks me off it's difficult customer support and broken promises and that is all I have read here since page 1. Seems like DA is working hard at trying to satisfy all but just never really getting there. kinda like politicians promises. Correct me if I am wrong but so far the only advantage of the RKE is the separate 4 bank plugs vs the 1 bank 8 of the APEX. Price wise they are the same if you include the net module on the DA

Can somebody convince me to go with the DA NOT based on what they may do in the future?

schwaggs

02/11/2010, 10:21 PM

I currently have an Apex. I had an ACIII and an ACII before it. I have never owned a DA product so I can't comment on them. I can say that either Neptune has mastered the art of cloning people and there are several Curts running around that place or that guy never sleeps. Neptune's support is awesome.

I bought the PX-1000 port expansion for the ACIII to monitor/control my CA reactor and run many X10 modules to control various things around the fish room. I am VERY impressed that all these things are compatible with the Apex. I literally unplugged the ACIII and plugged the Apex in and everything I owned is supported.

I know many people have problems with X10 but there are some things it can do that you can't do very cost effectively with outlet bricks. For example, I have a large system that needs 3 heaters. I have them placed in various tanks in my common sump system. With one X10 address, I can turn them all on and off at the same time.

Don't underestimate the convenience of programming your system from a web browser anywhere on your network. Granted, it isn't often that I would be changing things from my home office or my iPhone but it is nice to be able to tweak an email alarm when you are thinking of it and not have to wait until you get home. Also, the remote control feature is key. If you get an email alarm that your tank pH has dropped to 7.0, don't you want the ability to disable the CO2 on your CA reactor until you get home and have time to look at it? I don't need to see my tank to confirm that I should turn off the CO2 until I can figure out what’s going on...

I personally love DA since they provide competition in the market once dominated by Neptune. Competition makes everyone stronger, even the market leader.

unbreakable

02/11/2010, 10:40 PM

I made the switch from the RKE to the Apex and it's incredible. It's incredibly easy to program and I'm happy with it, can't believe I didn't make this choice long time ago. When I had the RKE I had problems from the first day I set it up--- over time the problems went away, no one knew what were the causes. I've had zero problems with the apex. I can log on using Kenargo's Tank Manager, check the status of my pH, ORP, temp, etc, and tap a button to turn things on and off from my phone. I can log on to a computer anywhere and access my Apex and modify any outlets. Updating the firmware is less of a hassle. I hated having to unplug every single module from the RKE to update the firmware.. Neptune's forum is much more active, so if you need a question youll most likely get a response the same day from the community, from Kenargo, or Curt himself

Trickman2

04/30/2010, 10:30 PM

Running a Apex unit here, so far I like it, seems like they are coming out with some new modules soon.

ser_renely

05/06/2010, 07:29 PM

I have the RKL, and it is great, never had any problems with it. In saying that if I could redue it, I would get the apex.....we'll see though when myReef comes out, maybe it will make it a lot better.

....

Azazael13

09/10/2010, 02:12 PM

First off I realize this thread is 4 months old. But I find myself in the market for a controller, and there seemed to be a lot of good info in this thread.

The general consensus I saw was APEX was the way to go. Is this still the case, or did RKE catch up?

Shard

09/10/2010, 03:52 PM

Nice to see people from my general area on here. I live in Valdosta GA, about an hour away from Tally.

I currently have units from both companies in use (RKE, Apex, and an RKL). To answer your question in short, I feel the Apex is still the way to go.

If you would like to see both units in person, let me know, your welcome to stop by and take a look and I can go over the differences in detail. If you want to give me a call I would be happy to answer any questions. I hope one day the RKE does catch up so we will have a little more competition, but at this time I still feel the Apex is ahead of the game.

Cheers,
Landon

sfboarders

09/10/2010, 04:21 PM

I had an RKL. It did the job but I ended up replacing it and getting an Apex. DA is in the works of putting out it's web based software. The salinity probe is still in testing stages. So many more features with an Apex and also a lot more modules.

Shard

09/10/2010, 04:42 PM

I really didn't want to have to go into great detail, but I will add a little to what is said above.

If sfboarders is talking about myReef, it is not web based, it must be run from an attached PC. If he is talking about the firmware for the NET module, see below.

The RKE now has web based control via the net module's firmware, but remote programming can't be done via the web interface. If you want to program it remotely you have to leave the PC running that has the myReef software and the USB connection to the RKE. You must connect to the PC via remote desktop (or VNC or whatever your choice) and use that PC remotely to change any programming. While the firmware on the Net is web based, calling myReef web based would be a stretch. It is really a desktop application accessed remotely.

In reference to the Salinity probes... they have been in testing for months from what I see. DA initially released the SL2 module which handles the probe back in April 2009 (maybe early May 09?). It wasn't long before issues started to arise with the probes.

It is now roughly 18 months after the release of the module and there is no replacement probe suitable for use with the module. I remember a user making a post questioning whether the warranty on his SL2 would expire before he even had a probe to use with it.
DA has since extended the warranty to 2 years on modules, for which they deserve some credit. Hopefully there will be a usable probe soon.

LifeAquatic

09/10/2010, 06:38 PM

I didnt take the time to read through this whole thread. I have used/owned both Neptune Apex and Digital Aquatics Reef Keeper Elite. I sold the APEX.

First Impression:

Apex: Packaged to a somewhat professional extent. Instruction manual for Apex is completely useless and will only confuse you. You might read it front to back a few times and still not understand how to do a simple function like turn on a light. This will frustrate you bigtime after spending $500 for this product. 90% of people who are savey will still have to call Neptune Customer support to get it working. When mine was running I kept having issue with the Seconds skipping around on the head unit. Also had problem with the Vortech interface. I know most products have bugs and errors to some extent but I didnt feel like I got what I paid for. Some people swear by the Apex. I think they are the people that dont want to admit they were ripped off. It is well known that APEX has very good customer service.

ReefKeeper Elite: Professionally packaged. Instruction manual is very clear and well written. You will be able to set up a ReefKeeper Elite within an hour with no calls to customer service. Functions on Reefkeeper are menu driven. No code to program. Like the APEX reefkeeper can control anything. I have read customer service complaints about digital Aquatics. I have dealt directly with DA and can say they responded to all my emails in a timely manor. I never had one problem getting anyone on the phone. The also replaced a pc4 for me with no questions asked. I sent the PC4 back because the status indicator for the sockets was crooked.. not becuse it was a faulty unit.

Conclusion: ReefKeeper gets my vote for ease of use. Both are powerful units. Reefkeeper is 100 times easier to set up and adjust.

James77

09/10/2010, 06:42 PM

You might read it front to back a few times and still not understand how to do a simple function like turn on a light. This will frustrate you bigtime after spending $500 for this product. 90% of people who are savey will still have to call Neptune Customer support to get it working.

Working off the network connection, setting up most anything is very basic. Their are menus for light, pumps, heater- all with simple on/off times. I did not use the head unit to set the Apex up, but it has very similar programming language as the ACjr. It is not that complicated.

James77

09/10/2010, 06:51 PM

I have used many of the controllers- the Apex, RKE, RK lite, and Profilux. I was not all that impressed with the Profilux, the cheaper controllers can do the same things for alot less.

The RKE pros are its PC4 strips, alot more versatile than the Apex 8 strip. They also give you 2 more relayed outlets that the EB8. The RKE head unit has better contrast than Apex, and choosing colors is a nice option. RKE getting 3rd party control someday would be nice, it is a major con to it when the other controllers have had it for years. MyReef 2 is good, Id rather the connection be web based as opposed to USB, but it works fine.

The APex is great for its Tunze control out of box, plus it can control Vortechs as well. The ORP port being able to be used as a 2nd pH port is also helpful. Programming is not as straightforward as RKE, but very easy once you learn it. Web connection was simply plug and go for me. The head unit contrast could be alot better. The DC8 is limiting as well, you easily max out a circuit with one strip.

Can't really go wrong with either. If RKE would get 3rd party pump control, the choice would be very difficult.

James77

09/10/2010, 06:54 PM

DA has since extended the warranty to 2 years on modules, for which they deserve some credit. Hopefully there will be a usable probe soon.

Last I read on their support forum a coupel weeks ago was they had a probe lined up, and were in the final stages of testing it. Have not checked on it since though.

LifeAquatic

09/10/2010, 07:03 PM

Does anyone know why Neptune salinity probes work and Da salinity probes don't? Or does Neptune Salnity probe have hidden issues? Neptune doesn't make their own probes. I was under the impression Neptune and DA buy their probes from pinpoint. If they are both made by pinpoint how come Neptune hasn't pulled their salinity probe. I looked at the Neptune probe in person and it uses the same connection as the DA sL2.

Shard

09/10/2010, 07:27 PM

Apex: Packaged to a somewhat professional extent. Instruction manual for Apex is completely useless and will only confuse you.

The packaging seemed the same to me... both were packed in white cardboard boxes.. nothing special or bad on either account.

As for the manual, the one that comes with the Apex is not great, but there is a huge Apex manual made by a user in the Neptune forum. It blows the official Apex manual and the RKE manual out of the water. It is somewhere around 100+ pages and covers all kinds of setup topics. There is even a section for router and network setup. Hopefully someone will get around to doing the same and writing a large one for the RKE. The manual seems to be a great help to the less technically oriented users.

Does anyone know why Neptune salinity probes work and Da salinity probes don't? Or does Neptune Salnity probe have hidden issues? Neptune doesn't make their own probes. I was under the impression Neptune and DA buy their probes from pinpoint. If they are both made by pinpoint how come Neptune hasn't pulled their salinity probe. I looked at the Neptune probe in person and it uses the same connection as the DA sL2.

I think both Neptune and DA offer probes from American Marine (Pinpoint), but they also have their own branded ones. I think the Salinity probe offered by DA was a branded one they had manufactured for them by another company. I think the end issue with the DA salinity probes was they just didn't hold up to the saltwater environment over time, so maybe a manufacturing flaw? I have no experience with the ones from Neptune. They probably just used a different third-party manufacturer.

The BNC connectors on the probes are pretty much standard these days, so that doesn't have much to do with anything. Most all probes for monitors these days come with BNC connectors regardless of manufacturer, that way you can use various manufacturers probes on different monitoring equipment. The BNC for probes is kind of like USB for computers, just a standard connection interface.

Last I read on their support forum a coupel weeks ago was they had a probe lined up, and were in the final stages of testing it. Have not checked on it since though.

Not to be overly pessimistic, but a lot of DA products and updates are always 'just around the corner'. I have just learned to take what they say with a grain of salt and anticipate a delay with everything. The persistent failure to meet projections has made me adjust my expectations accordingly.

That being said, I do like the RKE product. It is still a good piece of equipment. I just feel the Apex is a better unit at the moment, and it appears it is going to stay that way for some time because the developmental momentum behind the Apex is just stronger. Each has its strengths and weaknesses, but there seems to be more +'s and less -'s on for the Apex.

DaveMorris

09/10/2010, 08:22 PM

To answer a few of the latest questions that have come up in this thread:

Salinity probes - The newest version of the DA probes should start shipping in a couple of weeks, first to people who had issues with them and then to dealers and making them generally available. They are being made in-house by DA, as opposed to being made in China where most of the probes in the industry are made. The DA probes have temperature compensation built into them and most others do not have that.

RKE manual - A new one is being printed and should be out soon. They were criticised for it in the past and it seems to me that all of the controller companies have issues with this. I know it may not seem like it, but I know writing these manuals is not only time consuming, but difficult as well. Hopefully the knew one will be more helpful to people.

RKM-APC - This is the Tunze control module and was driving a 6055 Tunze head in a tank at MACNA. It isn't available yet, but it works and will be out soon.

myReef and "web-based" software - myReef is currently in beta build 67 and for most people anyway, completely stable. Some promised features are not working yet, but I would expect them in the next release which should be posted in a couple weeks or so. As far as it being "web-based" as Landon pointed out it is not unless you utilize a remote desktop solution. I do not know all of the reasons behind the decision for developing it as a stand alone Windows app, but a big one is cost and the lack of a need to re-program remotely. Personally I would not ever want to change programming for my system if I am not there to see how it is affecting my tank. Toggling channels between ON/OFF/AUTO would be enough for me. Some people would disagree, but that is the way DA chose to go. It is free software and is not necessary to use the system, unless you are updating the firmware.

Shard

09/10/2010, 08:44 PM

Hey Dave,

Thats good news for SL2 owners, I know many have been frustrated with the wait.

I think manuals in general across all controllers seem to be a little lacking... the poster above was actually commending the RKE manual, which is probably one of the better official ones, although it could use some improvement. The solution may be like the one for the Apex.. an un-official manual.

There are some things that are good about myReef being a desktop app. The ability to connect multiple systems is one. The ability to log information like dates for bulb changes and stuff is another. There is a lot of flexibility in a desktop app versus an integrated browser.

That being said, I just think it would be better to expand the RKM-NET firmware capabilities to match the flexibility of the Apex. To me, that would be a step in the right direction. The desktop app should help complement the features that cannot be integrated into the firmware. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

Again, each person's needs are different, and one should weigh the pros and cons of each system. If anyone reading this is looking to buy a controller, then try and find someone else with the systems you are interested in and compare them side by side. In the end you have to pick what you are comfortable with and what you think fits your situation better.

unbreakable

09/10/2010, 09:45 PM

James77

09/11/2010, 06:56 AM

James, what did you think of the Profilux? Did you have the P2 or the P3? I'm thinking of trying out the P3 but I like my Apex so far. I have already tried the RKE and not going back to that.

I had used the P2 Ex. They are good controllers, I just think that compared to the Apex or even the RKE, the higher cost of the Profilux is not really justified. The immediate argument froma Profilux owner is that you never need to buy a new controller when they upgrade. I think it is a weak argument, since the RKE and Apex are modular, and they will be looking to avoid that. Neptunes hardware AquaController hardware- DC8, DC4, AquaSurf, breakout box- are all still usable with the Apex. The upgrade kit to move the PII to the PIII is $360, so you still have to spend a substantial amount of money to keep the controller current. That price almost buys a whole new RKE-kit- RKE, SL1, 2 PC4s, temp and pH probes and switches.

The remote head units are a great thing, and the Profilux lacks that- they have the View, but that does not control. They have the touchscreen coming out, but thats going to be another added cost to the controller- although definitely a cool thing. When I had asked about using their 4 pump doser as a slave with the controller, I was disappointed to find that they would not recommend drawing water from below- only at level or having the dosing solutions above the doser. That immediately nixed my plans to dose from my basement to my tank, as well as the small daily water changes I was planning on doing.

The Apex and RKE are very easily added on to, at a very low cost- pretty much just the module and bus cable. To expand on the Profilux, you need a $400 expansion box after you fill up the original computer. The digital powerbar, while nice having 6 relayed switches, was awkwardly long- over 2' IIRC.

You can't beat the value and functionality of either the Apex or RKE. I think Apex is ahead of the game now, they are more ambitious. The Profilux is a good controller, and I don't doubt its quality. I just think the Apex and RKE are geared more towards what people need, balanced with a decent price.

AQD_ottawa

09/14/2010, 03:08 PM

When I had asked about using their 4 pump doser as a slave with the controller, I was disappointed to find that they would not recommend drawing water from below- only at level or having the dosing solutions above the doser. That immediately nixed my plans to dose from my basement to my tank, as well as the small daily water changes I was planning on doing.

ALL GHL dosers have been tested to draw up from 50 feet below just as an FYI ;)

James77

09/14/2010, 03:38 PM

ALL GHL dosers have been tested to draw up from 50 feet below just as an FYI ;)

Then it is pumping up that poses a problem? When I sent an email asking if your dosers would be able to handle drawing from 5-6 feet below, and then pumping up to my tank about 4-5 feet, i was told it was not recommended. I am trying to find the email so I can quote the person who answered my questions, but I cannot find the email on either of my PCs- I'll check the work one tomorrow.

AQD_ottawa

09/14/2010, 03:41 PM

HI

If post on the GHL forum I can give you all the "accurate" answers

110galreef

09/14/2010, 05:37 PM

just got done reading...much of the info is older....late 2009 early 2010.

I am now looking between the RKE w/ Net and the Apex Neptune.

***I want to track pH, temp, ....ORP & salinity probably...Both do all, salinity issue w/ DA?? pH, ORP & temp std w/ Apex. Ph & temp std w/ RKE.
**Want 0-10v control for LED drivers, appear need ALC to get 2 w/ RKE, while apex has 4 std??
**want ability to name outlets..Apex & with myreef2.0 yes
**want to be able to control top off via 3 float switches...appears 2 included w/ apex..2 part of the SL1 included
**want to be able to program system via a computer ( be it thru network or direct via a computer...please explain differences here
***want email or txt notification...appears both do this
**want to view status via a remote PC...appears both do this
**Possibly make changes remotely....Apex only
**track & graph or chart......appears both do this
**want to run lunar simulation via moonlights...appears both do this & offer the LED moon lights as well with extra module. RKE has a few differnt colors tho.
***want standby/feed option at push of a button....RKE yes...Apex??
battery backup or some sort of memory saving in event of power failure...plus ability to notify me via txt or email if power goes out....???
software free or included or separate purchase??????
** want Vortech controls.....Only Apex??

Here is a breakdown of what I want & know these two have. Pleas inform me if I am wrong or add to what I wasn't sure about.

Thanks!

James77

09/14/2010, 06:22 PM

You are right on all except the following things/notes:

ph and ORP are standard on Apex and RKE- the Apex can have its ORP port be used as a 2nd ph port

(4) 0-10 v are std with the Apex- these control the Tunzes, ALC needed on RKE

You can now name outlets on RKE with myReef2

Apex has feed buttons

software is free for both

Only Apex for Vortech

Battery backup....not 100% sure in this area but Ill give it a shot. The Apex base unit has an auxillary 12v power that can be run on backup, to get emails you would need to have your computer and router on back up as well. The RKE gets power only from the bus connected to a PC4. IDK what happens if one PC4 is on back up.

Rockys_Pride

09/14/2010, 06:26 PM

thanks, very informational as I am looking for my first controller.

andywe

09/14/2010, 06:37 PM

Battery backup....not 100% sure in this area but Ill give it a shot. The Apex base unit has an auxillary 12v power that can be run on backup, to get emails you would need to have your computer and router on back up as well. The RKE gets power only from the bus connected to a PC4. IDK what happens if one PC4 is on back up.

If 1 PC4 is on a UPS then the system head and net module will remian powered. As was stetd, you need your router pwoered as well tog et outgoing mail in a power iutage situation.

As for feed modes...easily enough done...RK users use standby setting for it....we program duration to a standby and then as part of the socket programming, whether the socket shuts down or not during that standby timer. DA also has the hub, which has a 9v port in it that you can hook up a 9v battery or 9v power supply on a ups and that keeps the head unit powered during a power outage. PC4's need the wall current though,,no getting around that hehe.

Last, I am very happy with the low key, very informative thread on this. Good stuff everyone.

Shard

09/14/2010, 07:58 PM

Hey andywe,

I want to add a little bit here....

I ran some tests a while back on my RKE by putting only 1 PC4 on battery backup to see if my system would stay up in the event of power failure, then killing the power. I obviously only put my most basic needs on the 1 PC4, such as return pumps.

The system would run for a few minutes, and then would shut off. I assumed it was either a firmware issue or power input issue. I thought it was most likely firmware related, as it seemed the GC1 headunit was beeping then shutting it all down. It seemed the system was going into a default state of shutdown, possibly because it lost contact with most of the modules. Maybe this has been addressed in more recent firmware releases, but I don't really know, as I haven't had a chance to retest.

It is good now that DA has added default states to the outlets, which if the system goes down, and only the 1 PC4 is left on, then it should at least keep running with the default states (albeit without any system control). Regardless of the possible firmware issue I was having, this sort of deals with the problem I was having of the whole system going down, but not in a way I would want. I would prefer to still have the headunit in control, instead of a default fallback setting that is static once initiated.

Based on this I would say the battery/UPS backup feature is a little "spotty" and possibly not very reliable. Again, maybe this issue has been addressed, I don't know.

Now on to some of the finer points of using a UPS to backup either an RKE or an Apex....

On my other system, which is an Apex, I have it setup to where all the EB8s (socket strips like the PC4s) are on a UPS, but the 12v Auxiliary power for the Apex Base is on a regular outlet. When a power loss is detected on the 12v Aux line, the Apex has a feature where you can add this line to any outlets program:
<code>
If Power Apex Off 000 Then OFF
</code>
This will tell the individual outlet to turn off immediately, because the system is running on battery backup. To me I like this because I am able to keep the whole system powered via UPS, but selectively turn of outlets that would draw a lot of energy like Metal Halides and Chillers and what not. In other words I can have individual outlet control to turn off things which reduces power consumption all while keeping the whole system powered.

I do not have to selectively connect PC4 modules to a UPS which forces me to either keep all four outlets on, or all four off. In this type of setup with the RKE there is no individual outlet control in event of power failure like there is on the Apex.

Also, when power is restored, the Apex simply turns back on the outlets. In the case of the RKE, the modules have to re-establish communication on the bus, as they were not visible during the power outage. This seems a little less refined to me.

Another problem is that when the RKE is backed up this way, even if the headunit stays on (via 9v power or PC4), I can't really think of a way to set it up so an email is sent telling you the power is out. On the Apex you can add this line of code to the Email Alarm setup:
<code>
If Power Apex Off 000 Then ON
</code>
This line of code will trigger the email alarm to send you an email, telling you specifically that the power is out, and also give you a complete status of all outlets/modules/probes at the current moment. In the odd event that the Apex base unit goes down (I couldn't see how this would happen with the EB8(s) still powered) you still have the default state setting for each outlet as extra redundancy.

In my observation from owning and utilizing both systems, it would appear that while the RKE has power backup capabilities, they seem to be more of an afterthought, or side effect, of what can be accomplished by a selective setup of the components, not really an explicit feature.

On the Apex, the power backup capabilities seem more refined, as they are integrated into the firmware and there are specific settings and program functions tied to them. They also seem a little more complete since you have so many options available for complex controls during the outage that are not present on the RKE.

Maybe this issue can be addressed in the future with the RKE, however I would first like to see the bugs worked out of the RKE beta 2.0X firmwares, a completed myReef 2.0, along with some other things that DA needs to catch up on. I still like my RKE, it does have some good features, but I still feel the Apex is a better product with a richer feature set, and the above analysis of UPS/power backup functions is just one part of it.

Landon

110galreef

09/15/2010, 08:02 AM

Do either of these system work wirelessly for programing or do they need to be hooked up via a ethernet conection into the network and then programed via a computer?

110galreef

09/15/2010, 09:36 AM

csarkar001

09/15/2010, 09:44 AM

Also w/ the 0-10v control between the two.....
can they simply be ramped up or do I have to set a time & voltage? Say like from 9- 10am go from 0v-10v over that period

can they be part of the sunrise sunset feature?

the advanced lighting control (ALC) module on the RKL which i'm considering buying for my DIY LED project is still using Beta grade software. there does not yet appear to be any documentation on this software - at least not that i could locate.

my suggestion is for you to ask this question directly on their user forum (http://www.forum.digitalaquatics.com/viewforum.php?f=34).

i have found their service to be top notch in terms of replying to these types of questions. (but providing detailed manuals - not so much.)

also, a couple of their customers have posted that they have sucessfully used the ALC and beta software for their LED implementation.

if you do end up locating documentation on the ALC feature set, please PM a copy of it to me if it would not be too much trouble.

my concern going into the project and thinking of using the ALC is that there may be too many button presses involved on the user panel to override the lighting settings temporarily.

hope this helps.

James77

09/15/2010, 11:08 AM

Do either of these system work wirelessly for programing or do they need to be hooked up via a ethernet conection into the network and then programed via a computer?

You can use a wireless gaming adapter for the Apex, but I it needs direct wiring for programming. The RKE uses a USB connection for myreef, and people use a USB to network adapter of some sort to attach it to their networks, so I'd imagine there is a way to go wirelss.

Shard

09/15/2010, 11:24 AM

Do either of these system work wirelessly for programing or do they need to be hooked up via a ethernet conection into the network and then programed via a computer?

The Apex base has an ethernet port, with the RKE you can buy the Net module, which has an ethernet port, or use the SID to have a USB connection to a computer (running myReef). With either of the ethernet options, you can use a wireless gaming bridge to make it wireless. With the network connections you don't necessarily need a computer. The RKE has a iPhone app you can see the status with, and the Apex has an iPhone app you can both see status and control the unit with. You can log into the webpages on both with about any device with a browser. There are tons of options.

If you want to know more about their remote and network capabilities read back a few pages in this thread, and check their manuals and user forums for the products.

Also w/ the 0-10v control between the two.....
can they simply be ramped up or do I have to set a time & voltage? Say like from 9- 10am go from 0v-10v over that period

can they be part of the sunrise sunset feature?

I have no experience with the ALC, so I cannot tell you, although I would like the module to try. On the Apex there is a ramp and script function for the 0-10v. It may be best to ask these questions on their sponsor forums, where you might get a more detailed answer.

Landon

Miller_Time

09/15/2010, 08:45 PM

So can we use any salinity probe with the SL2 then? It doesn't have to be the DA specific probe?

110galreef

09/16/2010, 07:21 AM

So can we use any salinity probe with the SL2 then? It doesn't have to be the DA specific probe?

Yes the SL2 allows to hook up a salinity probe. However it is proprietary so you must use the DA probe. They have supposedly found a maker that passes their QC and will be selling these soon after they replace current user's faulty ones

kermit_criminal

09/19/2010, 11:54 PM

does APex have wifi? my pc and modem/routers are in a different room and i dont want to have a long cord going across the entire house for my apex system whenever i go on vacation

Shard

09/20/2010, 12:42 AM

No, it has built in ethernet. If you want to make it wireless you would need a ethernet wireless bridge, sometimes called a game adapter. Last I looked, I cannot think of any major production units that have wireless built in.

The only controller that has wireless is the Reef Angel, which is an open source controller that isn't quite up to the same level yet as all of the major production controllers like the Apex.

Cheers,
Landon

schwaggs

09/20/2010, 05:52 AM

Also w/ the 0-10v control between the two.....
can they simply be ramped up or do I have to set a time & voltage? Say like from 9- 10am go from 0v-10v over that period

can they be part of the sunrise sunset feature?

For ramping on the Apex, you specify the starting and ending intensity (0-100%, 30-90%, 90-0%, etc) and the period of time you would like the controller to ramp (over 15 minutes, 60 minutes, etc).

Yes, it can be used with the sunrise/sunset feature.

Neptune also just announced the VDM which will interface with Aqua Illumination LED fixtures to provide sunrise/sunset control and weather (cloud cover, etc).

110galreef

09/20/2010, 07:02 AM

For ramping on the Apex, you specify the starting and ending intensity (0-100%, 30-90%, 90-0%, etc) and the period of time you would like the controller to ramp (over 15 minutes, 60 minutes, etc).

Yes, it can be used with the sunrise/sunset feature.

Neptune also just announced the VDM which will interface with Aqua Illumination LED fixtures to provide sunrise/sunset control and weather (cloud cover, etc).

Excellent! Thanks:bounce2:

Azazael13

09/20/2010, 09:10 AM

so I have been looking more and more and have decided on an APEX I think (kicking myself that I didn't stop at the booth during MACNA). I have a couple final (maybe final) questions.

The difference between the standard and the lite models seems to be the standard can do 2 probes nad has 4 ports on the end, which I think are: Integrated Variable Speed Ports
0 to 10V output interface
Can directly control up to 4 variable speed Tunze stream pumps (like AquaSurf)
Can dim ballasts with 0 to 10V interfaces (like some T5 ballasts)

As someone without dimable ballasts and without variable speed pumps, what use are these ports for? Do they make a module that I can buy later if I ever get one of the above (which I doubt I will).

schwaggs

09/20/2010, 09:22 AM

You are right, the difference between the Apex and Apex Lite is an additional probe port (pH or ORP) and 4 variable speed ports.

You can add an addtional pH or ORP port by adding a PM1 (~$75)(also includes a temperature probe port)

You can add variable speed ports in the future by adding the VXM (newly announced, not available for another month or 2).

Shard

09/20/2010, 07:41 PM

The above post is correct. The addition of a PM1 and a Variable Drive Module (VDM) would add the 4 variable ports and the extra pH/ORP port to the Apex lite which the regular Apex has. You would also get 6 more switches and another temp probe port on the PM1, and Aqua Illuminations LED control with the VDM, if you so needed these functions.

Just a slight correction on the above note for the release of the VDM.... Reef builders has it listed as coming out "in about late September or early October." We will see I guess.

txbonds

09/22/2010, 11:50 AM

Shard

09/22/2010, 07:27 PM

So if you wanted the net, aqua illumination control, basic auto top off, ph, temp, and wireless vortech controll and what not, would it ultimately be cheaper to buy an apex lite or the full apex? Sounds like you have to add on with either to do what I want. Thanks.

Well, both the Apex and the Apex lite handle top off (via switches), pH, and temp. For either unit you will need the VDM (Variable Drive Module) to control AI lights, and the WXM (Wireless eXpansion Module) to control the Vortechs.

So it would be a little cheaper to get the Apex Lite + WXM + VDM than it would be to buy the Apex + WXM + VDM. With the VDM you also get 4 Variable Speed Ports, so if you had a regular Apex, you would then have 8 VSPs.

I guess the question is do you see a need for the second pH/ORP port and the 4 VSPs on the Apex? If not, then get the Lite.

txbonds

09/23/2010, 04:34 AM

Well, both the Apex and the Apex lite handle top off (via switches), pH, and temp. For either unit you will need the VDM (Variable Drive Module) to control AI lights, and the WXM (Wireless eXpansion Module) to control the Vortechs.

So it would be a little cheaper to get the Apex Lite + WXM + VDM than it would be to buy the Apex + WXM + VDM. With the VDM you also get 4 Variable Speed Ports, so if you had a regular Apex, you would then have 8 VSPs.

I guess the question is do you see a need for the second pH/ORP port and the 4 VSPs on the Apex? If not, then get the Lite.

Sounds like the apex lite will do what I need. Am I correct in thinking that the apex lite could be turned into an apex by replacing the aquacontroller piece, but the display is the same for both? Versus on the RKE and RKL, the display is different as well?

Just thinking that from an upgrade standpoint, one is a little easier to upgrade possibly, but maybe I'm not understanding properly how the pieces work together and differ among the two systems.

Shard

09/23/2010, 04:46 AM

Am I correct in thinking that the apex lite could be turned into an apex by replacing the aquacontroller piece, but the display is the same for both? Versus on the RKE and RKL, the display is different as well?

Yes you are correct, the only difference between the regular Apex and the Lite is the base module itself. This displays are the same. So to make an Apex Lite an Apex, you would just need to change out the base, because the base module is the "brain".

On the RKE/RKL units, the displays are different, and the display itself is the controller/base or "brain". They are integrated into the same module.

Landon

MechEng99

09/26/2010, 05:41 PM

What's the warranty on the Apex & RKE? I must be blind - can't find the warranty info anywhere for Apex.

Shard

09/26/2010, 06:03 PM

What's the warranty on the Apex & RKE? I must be blind - can't find the warranty info anywhere for Apex.

It in the Apex manual, most recent version, it says 1 Year Warranty. It doesn't say whether it is transferable or not, but I am going to assume it is, since it doesn't specifically say it isn't.

See page 109 here in the PDF available at the Neptune website, under downloads:

http://www.neptunesys.com/APEX-20104032_WEB.pdf

For the RKE, it was 1 Year, but they extended it to 2 years not very long ago. A good plus, but a key point of their warranty, is that it is not transferable, it only applies to the original owner. So if you buy second-hand/used equipment, it doesn't matter if its only a few months old, or a few days old, it is not covered by the warranty.

See the post on the DA forum for details here:
http://www.forum.digitalaquatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=45&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

If you buy either system new, then it doesn't matter, but if you are searching for used equipment, be sure to understand this.

Probes (pH and such) appear to be the same for each company, 90 days for their own probes.

Landon

txbonds

09/26/2010, 06:23 PM

I went ahead and ordered the apex basic setup with standard ph and temp probes. I thought about the lite version, but decided to just get the full one. Will have to pick up the wireless and aqua illumination modules next.

Thanks again for the help.

Sounds like the apex lite will do what I need. Am I correct in thinking that the apex lite could be turned into an apex by replacing the aquacontroller piece, but the display is the same for both? Versus on the RKE and RKL, the display is different as well?

Just thinking that from an upgrade standpoint, one is a little easier to upgrade possibly, but maybe I'm not understanding properly how the pieces work together and differ among the two systems.

MechEng99

09/26/2010, 08:23 PM

Thanks Shard - you'd figure a company or a company selling a controller would put the warranty details on the main spec sheet...kinda something people care about when they're dropping several hundred dollars! Sorry to have you dig through the manual.

MechEng99

09/27/2010, 06:46 PM

Just purchased the Neptune Apex with 4 LED setup - looking forward to it. :) Will post my thoughts in a few days.

unbreakable

09/27/2010, 07:03 PM

If you setup the apex to the Internet first, programming will be a breeze

MechEng99

09/27/2010, 07:21 PM

unbreakable

09/27/2010, 08:45 PM

That's what we are planning to do. Our house is all wireless, so I don't quite understand the need for the controller to have a bridge/gaming adaptor. I'm assuming I can pick that up at any gaming store/Walmart (last resort)?

not sure about this, I don't have mine plugged in that way. there's an ethernet port on the apex base and if anything you can plug it into a router thats connected to your modem for the internet for the time being to get things going. the gaming adapter is if you dont want to deal with having an ethernet cable running through the house. you also have to be careful not to update your apex with the gaming adapter plugged in; you can find out why and how to do all what's needed in the unofficial manual

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1834783

MechEng99

09/28/2010, 04:57 AM

Hum, ok, this will probably have to be a wait-to-see it sort of thing. Our router is on the second floor on the opposite side of the house, so not sure what we'll do. Thanks for the unofficial reading...I'll get started on that tonight. :)

Azazael13

10/22/2010, 08:50 PM

took the plunge and bought an APEX Lite and PH Probe yesterday. Should be here Wed. Then I shall return here with lots of questions I am sure :)

Shard

10/24/2010, 10:48 PM

took the plunge and bought an APEX Lite and PH Probe yesterday. Should be here Wed. Then I shall return here with lots of questions I am sure :)

That's good news. If you need any help we will be here. The Neptune forum is also a great place for support. The unofficial user guide available there is invaluable to most.

Landon

aleonn

10/25/2010, 05:59 PM

Very insightful thread, will do more reading up and will buy one of these controllers soon, most likely the Apex.

lostmyz

03/07/2012, 05:50 PM

I have a 72 gal bow front with a 29 gal sump/refugium with this equipment:

RadionXR30w x2
MP40wES
MP10wES
Reef Octopus 110
BRS Dual Reactor - Phospban and Nitrogen Pellets
Coralife Turbo Twist UV sterilizer 16W
Chiller and a heater set to same temp
Tunze Osmolator
Koarlin Calcium Reactor

I am interested in either getting a Reefkeeper or the Neptune Apex unit. I have read mixed reviews on both and people liking the Apex unit more. A LFS told me the Apex is more for commercial usage and the Reefkeeper is more residential. I plan on upgrading to a bigger tank probably a 150gal min in the future so I would like to re-use as much of my equipment as possible. What do you all think is best for my current and future set up?

Thanks

insane

03/07/2012, 06:53 PM

A LFS told me the Apex is more for commercial usage and the Reefkeeper is more residential.

Don't believe everything a LFS tells you.

James77

03/07/2012, 07:55 PM

If you want or plan on controlling the vortechs, only the Neptune can of the two.

Let me guess, the LFS happens to only carry reefkeeper? :p
The Neptune is intended for residential use.

One plus towards the apex is it coming with a ph port and an ORP port that can be used as a second ph port, great for reactors.

lostmyz

03/07/2012, 08:58 PM

I agree with you on that one, but this guy doesn't push more expensive stuff. He always tries to steer you in the right and possibly less wallet busting option. and that doesn't answer my question :)

James77

03/07/2012, 09:20 PM

I agree with you on that one, but this guy doesn't push more expensive stuff. He always tries to steer you in the right and possibly less wallet busting option. and that doesn't answer my question :)

It was worth a shot.....now I have to give a more detailed answer :D.

I am a fan of Neptune products, the only other controller I consider at this point is Profilux, though their quality comes at a higher price. I have owned Neptune Apex full, ac jr, and Apex jr. i have owned Reefkeeper Elite twice and reefkeeper lite. I have also owned Profilux II, but it was very brief and not enough to accurately review. I did like Profiluxs Tunze/0-10 v control options and its randomness.

The Apex is the only one of the ones you listed that controls vortechs, profilux does as well. Im not sure if they control the radions as well, I would ask in either the Neptune or EcoTech forum. I assume (:worried:) that the Apex can control the radion. Please look into that further and not take my word :).

The rest you list is very basic controller things, both can do all of it. As I said, the Apex has the option of 2 pH ports right out of the box if needed for a reactor. Sooooo....it comes down to things like quality, service and overall opinions. I can go into detail on all of it if you want, my past posts cover it well though. Neptunes service, ambition and quality all win over the ReefKeepers in my experience on all of them. Also, the Apex is much more consolidated than the RKE....the Ph, ethernet, dimmables, orp/ph, switch inputs are all on the base unit.

USC-fan

03/07/2012, 09:32 PM

One big downsize about the apex is programming it. Yes it can do just anything if you spend enough money but you have to program it.

I would look over the Neptune forum for the user guide and make sure you can handle that part.

I think that is the reason your LFS told you reefkeeper is for residential is because it so easy to set up compared to the neptune products. Most people just need a timer / temp control / ph control and maybe ATO. All the reefkeeper can do out the box. Plus its easy to set up with out a computer.

You have a very advance set up and you are going to have to learn a lot to set that up with neptune. If you are very computer smart and dont mind coding it will be easy for you.

James77

03/07/2012, 10:03 PM

Yes it can do just anything if you spend enough money but you have to program it.
.

Spend enough money? Right out of box it will do more than any RK at the same price, and beat it by a couple hundred bucks.

I would look over the Neptune forum for the user guide and make sure you can handle that part.
Plus its easy to set up with out a computer.
You have a very advance set up and you are going to have to learn a lot to set that up with neptune. If you are very computer smart and dont mind coding it will be easy for you.

Again, I am going to call out this nonsense. The Apex is not difficult to program. I CAN DO IT!! I am clinging on by a fingernail to computer and network "technology". If it does not work with the most basic of hooking up, I may as well sit there and babble my lips like a schmuck....yet I have never had a serious issue with the Apex. Yes, some minor programming help, but no more than with the RKE.

95% of the programming can be done off SIMPLE menus either on the head unit or throuhg the web based ethernet connection. How simple? What time you want your lights on and off, temp controlling heaters chillers or light, ph switched on and off, doser timing. All off it can be done off an interface easy enough for a child to understand. Yes, it can be more complicated, but you that is when you start piling on all sorts of cool things. The best part of the Apex is that it allows you to do such.

You never did end up replying in another thread, USC.....which Apex do you or have you owned? I'm just curious of your first hand knowledge of the Apex being difficult to program.

USC-fan

03/07/2012, 10:15 PM

I have owned a ACIII. What is so hard to understand, its in my sig? The APEX is nothing new, you program it the same way.... Sure you can program VERY basic things from the display but this is not what this guy is talking about. Its crazy you leave out the programming details. He talking about setting up LED control and vortec control....yet dont mention one word about programming which is the biggest downfall for the APEX system.

Well since you can do it then anyone can....??? Funny thing is you can not even access your APEX from outside your network.

You give out good advice all the time but for reason when it comes to controller threads you seem to be very biased. To compare programming the RKE to apex is just silly. Its like night and day.

I read many thread where people order the apex and it just sit in a box because they cant get over the learning curb. It is so bad that the forum has written an "unofficial guide"...i mean come guy...

insane

03/07/2012, 10:17 PM

this guy doesn't push more expensive stuff. He always tries to steer you in the right and possibly less wallet busting option.

If the guy told you that the Apex is more for commercial usage and the Reefkeeper is more residential then he isn't telling you the truth. He made it up. He is steering you alright.

insane

03/07/2012, 10:20 PM

Funny thing is you can not even access your APEX from outside your network.

That is absolutely untrue.

I used to program my sisters APEX located in Urbana Illinois while I was sitting on my couch in Peoria Illinois.

All you have to do is set it up to do it.

USC-fan

03/07/2012, 10:22 PM

If the guy told you that the Apex is more for commercial usage and the Reefkeeper is more residential then he isn't telling you the truth. He made it up. He is steering you alright.He is telling the truth. The neptune product is for the hardcore/commercial reefers. Who want to control everything and will spend the time to learn to write the code to program it.

The Reef keeper is more of the main stream residential/everyday reefer.

I dont see how this LFS is giving out bad advice. Think for a second if this LFS sold neptune controller and had to help someone over the phone set this thing up....good night. I dont blame the LFS.... :reading:

That is absolutely untrue.

I used to program my sisters APEX located in Urbana Illinois while I was sitting on my couch in Peoria Illinois.

All you have to do is set it up to do it.I was talking about that poster, not the controller sorry that wasnt clear. Yes the apex out the box can do that.

If you know how to set up a DNS server.....

James77

03/07/2012, 10:42 PM

I have owned a ACIII..

So in other words, you have not owned an Apex. Similar to program, yes. Also SIMPLE to program. I am tired of hearing the same old crap like it is rocket science to program this thing. If you can do menu slected things, then chances are you will have ZERO problem.

Its crazy you leave out the programming details. He talking about setting up LED control and vortec control....yet dont mention one word about programming which is the biggest downfall for the APEX system

Its crazy? :hmm4: LOL. I have controlled DIY LEDs with the Apex, and again it was SIMPLE. I simply set up the rpofiles I wanted and told it what times I wanted it on at. Profiles? Yes....you can choose how long and at what length of time you want the dimming to happen. AGAIN, it is all simple pull down menus.

I
Well since you can do it then anyone can....??? Funny thing is you can not even access your APEX from outside your network. .

Yes, I have and can easily can access my Apex out of my home network. You are trying to use my complete lack of knowledge of DNS servers as proof that the APex is hard to program. Failed at that one. I have had it setup and it worked pretty dam easily....I just have little use for it. Just nice to know it can be done out of box with the APex....with ethernet and not tethered to your computer. Tethered.....is that computer lingo???

You give out good advice all the time but for reason when it comes to controller threads you seem to be very biased. To compare programming the RKE to apex is just silly. Its like night and day..

Yes, I am very biased. Why? Because I have owned both, and dealt with bot is terms of waiting for new features, reliability, and SERVICE. Sorry if I picked the one that does not STINK ON ICE.

You are the one being silly, USC. The Apex programming is simple pull down menus of what time and at what values you want things to happen, please tell me you are nor incapable of that. Is there more advanced programming possible? YES. Is it harder than menus? YES. BUT, it is far from what I would call "coding". Try neptune forum and email support for help. Now try the same for digital aquatics. Ill save you the trouble.....skip right over the forum here on RC and emailing them, go right to fellow user support.

I read many thread where people order the apex and it just sit in a box because they cant get over the learning curb. It is so bad that the forum has written an "unofficial guide"...i mean come guy...

Please post links to 5 of those threads, wouldya? Should not be too hard with there being many of them.

Yes, the unofficial guide. :lol:, what is so bad about that? It is extremely helpful in working the more advanced features. Maybe you should have read it? Oh, thats right you have not owned the Apex. BTW, its learning curve.

James77

03/07/2012, 10:46 PM

He is telling the truth. The neptune product is for the hardcore/commercial reefers. Who want to control everything and will spend the time to learn to write the code to program it....

Listen to your NONSENSE. Hardcore commercial reefer? Wow.....I guess 75% of the people here are such?

USC-fan

03/07/2012, 11:04 PM

wish they would just make a computer program where u didnt have to type computer code and u just pushed damn buttons to do what u wanted.. why does this have to be so damn difficult, paying 1,200 bucks for all this apex stuff just ticks me off, this is too hard to configure for the normal person.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2142278&highlight=help
HELP
Ok standing in my garage freezing my butt off trying to set this up,with no luck
Any one want to let me call them, or call me to help please (Russ) lol
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19963915&postcount=10

I just bought a Apex also and it is sitting on my couch for a couple of months, I will get my kid to get it configured to my Apple and then I will start playing around with it. I also have a RK 1 (ONE) basic controller but I wanted something that I could get on a computer and check my tank when my kid calls and says it is making weird noises again and I won't have to shut down the system to fail-safe until I get home.

That was just from this WEEK do I need to keep going, im sure i can find 5 from this WEEK if I keep looking....?

Funny just the other day you told me you couldnt access your apex from outside you home network.

Most people that come to a reef forum are pretty hardcore....

Clearly you are letting your biased for the neptune come through. I have owned both products and they both are great products. Even if I havent own the apex system it is just an improvement in the ACIII. They shared the same code based. Programming for them is the same....

"I am tired of hearing the same old crap like it is rocket science to program this thing. If you can do menu slected things, then chances are you will have ZERO problem." Again letting your biased come through... this is very valid point that i have proven. The things that sell the neptune are not the "menu selected things."

James77

03/08/2012, 12:05 AM

Most people that come to a reef forum are pretty hardcore....

You got that right :D. Ok.....lets make this easy :)....USC prefers ReefKeepers and I prefer Neptunes. Both are good controllers, IME/IMO the Apex serves me better.

USC and RC, my apologies for being over the top with my last couple posts. They were uncalled for...... we are all hobbyists :beer:

PM sent.

Shard

03/08/2012, 06:34 AM

Just thought I would add my experience.

I have/had a RK2, two RKLs, two RKEs, and two Apex units.

From my experience...
with DA:
(1) The RKEs units were full of bugs from the start
(2) The company never even produced some of the promised modules.
(3) Their customer service was horrible.
(4) They were even outright rude to me at times.
(5) They still don't have Vortech support, nor have announced it.
(6) It took them what? 3 years to produce the Tunze module? Lets not even start on the other constant 'delays' with both modules and software.
(7) I remember when the SL2 module that controls Salinity came out, then they announced the probes were defective and it took them MORE THAN A YEAR to produce functional ones for all the people who sank over $200 in their faulty design. That is just one example of several design flaws in my opinion.
(8) I also hated having to completely disassemble the system to update each module individually in hopes they would finally have a working firmware without bugs. I should also mention their software usually crashed during the updates and it had to be repeated several times to get it to work.
(9) Not being able to program it from the web interface meant I had to use the tiny head unit LCD and few buttons on the front for setup. So much more difficult in my opinion than point and click web setup. Programming via the head unit versus a nice web interface (like the Apex) is like comparing web surfing on your cell phone to your computer. You can do it, but it takes forever, and gets annoying after a while.
(10) I also really didn't appreciate the way the company 'manages' itself. They would frequently delete critical threads, or whitewash their own support forum to make it look like everything was ok. They even removed the entire sub forum of threads about the myReef software it got so bad, (hundreds if not thousands of bug reports, irate customers, and general complaints about their bad business practices).

The MyReef 2.0 software release was just one example. They waited until the last minute at the end of the year, knowing full well months before they were never going to make their end of the year deadline, and deceived people into believing it was coming right up to the end. Then they missed their next projection, and finally released a buggy failure in May (initially it was due out 'sometime' 2010, then late 2010, then April 2011, finally released with limited functionality and chocked full of bugs in May 2011, and not really functional or useful until sometime around August or September 2011). I think they are still trying to integrate features mentioned back in 2009 or 2010. Did they ever add a backup feature? I really hated having to reprogram EVERYTHING after a firmware update. With the Apex you don't have to reprogram it after a firmware update, and you can backup your setup with just a few clicks.

With Neptune:
(1) The Apex has a more full featured web interface (and for the record you have to setup DNS for the RKE as well. There is no difference in setting up the external access, just that the Apex has a more functional interface.
(2) You can program it from the head unit just as easily, if not easier than the RKE (THERE IS NO NEED TO PROGRAM UNLESS YOU WANT TO).
(3) It worked with my AI lights immediately, and my Tunze pumps, minimal setup, mostly point and click.
(4) Their customer support is awesome, I got responses within hours, and on weekends, with DA I wouldn't hear from them for weeks, and then they would just say they lost the email or some other excuse.
(5) The system doesn't have to be touched for an update, just point and click, no disassembly required (A huge plus feature for people who don't feel like tearing down their entire electronics tangle to update).
(6) The software is not full of bugs like the RKE, no late night shutoffs, or constant email bombing, or any of the other problems with the RKE.
(7) It actually costs LESS to get MORE features with the Apex. A similar RKE setup costs $100-200 more, and you still get less software wise.
(8) Bug fixes (the few needed) come in a timely fashion, the firmware updates are more frequent, and usually contain new features, and the products come out as promised in a timely fashion. I believe the Vortech module was 6 months from announcement to market. (Still no word on one for the RKE, and the Tunze one took what? 3-4 years?)

USC-Fan you may have your preference, but if you look around on RC you will see about 30 or so people who USED to own an RKE and dumped it for the Apex. The inverse of this is that I have only seen one person who actually sold their Apex for an RKE. If someone reading this doesn't believe what James77 or I have to say, let the collective mind speak for you. In 95%+ of the cases where someone has owned BOTH the RKE and the Apex, we pick the Apex (and usually dump the RKE altogether).

And for the record, my two Apex units are currently running my systems, with an RKL on a side tank that only needs some basic stuff. I put the RK2, an RKL, and an RKE in the closet, and sold the other RKE. When I get home from medical school this summer, the rest of my RKE/RKL equipment is going as well. Anyone interested in both controllers should do themselves a favor. Go ahead and get an Apex, or you will be upgrading to it later.

Hope this helps,
Landon

Azazael13

03/08/2012, 06:53 AM

Apex isn't that hard to setup (but maybe it is because I am on of those fancy pants computer people). The amount of flexibility I get with my Apex is why I love it. I love being able to control my closed loop based on time/temp/season.

I also love being able to turn outlets on or off via my droid. Before reading this thread I realized I didn't turn my light back to auto this morning (was forced off for the last two days) and all it took was opening the app and tapping my phone screen three times.

Another feature that I really enjoyed is the way I can set up my lunar lights to follow the exact lunar cycle (you can do the same with the main lights as well).

Maybe the ReefKeepers can do all of that, I don't know for sure.

/edit: I will also say that the customer support with Apex is top notch. I had issues with a bad base unit shortly after I got the system and they responded and tested remotely over the course of 3 hours.

USC-fan

03/08/2012, 08:36 AM

Shard- things have changed since 2009. You still post like a jilted lover. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1743492

I had a bad temp probe last Friday at 6pm. Email tech support they reply in 2 mins. Then email back a couple times helping me out and we found out it needed to be replace. Called them at 7:15 pm and got a someone on the phone right away and a replacement sent out. They shipped it free both ways. I know saw some post for 2011 that they had made changes in their CS... so maybe that is why it awesome now.

Plus they even have a tech support forum and gotten help buying the correct USB cable for my Rke. That is a support forum and they post that they will deleted thing that are not support related. Yet you are surprise they do this?

New SL2 module is out and i read that owner gotten free upgrades.

You have to understand that rke was a huge upgrade from the rl2. Its like night and day. Apex was a minor upgrade at most compared to the ACIII. I believe everything you say about the bugs with the rke and what not but you act like they are still here. I just brought a RKE and its was so easy to set up and i did it all on the web. Not sure what you are talking about. My reef 2.0 works amazing and I can access that through remote log in on my PC and i did not set up a DNS server. So i dont not even in the net module.

I do have a preference for my system but i'm not biased like you guys. Both are great products in 2012. I like both systems. I used a rke because I found it used for cheap from something getting out the hobby. I have used both systems.

I do see some people sell their RKE but it seems they want the more advance programming features of the Apex. Maybe in the past in 2009-2010 it was more of the case like James and you but its 2012. People are not buying a RKE from 2009.... DA had made the changes and the rke is a good product. I use it in my system without any problems that you talk about.

I even have vortec/ tunze pumps and see no need for another controller for it...maybe you do but its seem like a waste of money.

doctorgori

03/08/2012, 08:49 AM

And for the record, my two Apex units are currently running my systems,

Two Apex units? Not to steal the thread but I need help with trying to access two units....pm sent

Shard

03/08/2012, 08:58 AM

Shard- things have changed since 2009. You still post like a jilted lover. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1743492

Thank you for posting proof that their customer service was awful, yes that is my post. Also, no need for you to make it personal and call me a jilted lover. Im a former customer because they are not a good company. If they would have responded to my emails within two weeks, or actually provided service, I would have a better opinion of them. There are hundreds of other examples of their horrible CS out there as well. The owner of Neptune makes calls on the weekends to satisfy customers, DA can't even keep their own phone system working some days.

That is a support forum and they post that they will deleted thing that are not support related. Yet you are surprise they do this?

No, Im surprised when they delete hundreds of threads ABOUT SUPPORT. i.e: the ones that continually posted updates about the constant bugs, or asked for help in getting their product to actually work. They nuked the entire forum because it was proof of a bad and defective product (MyReef 2.0 in May 2011). How are threads about defective firmware and lack of features that were promised in a product not about support?

New SL2 module is out and i read that owner gotten free upgrades.

Well that was nice of them after taking $200 or more (probe+module) from people over a year earlier. So you call it a free upgrade when they fix something they screwed up a year ago?

Can you send me $200? Don't worry, I won't send you anything functional now, I will just give you a 'free' upgrade in a year.

You have to understand that rke was a huge upgrade from the rl2. Its like night and day. Apex was a minor upgrade at most compared to the ACIII. I believe everything you say about the bugs with the rke and what not but you act like they are still here.

You should have read my post more carefully, I still own one, and yes, it still has bugs. This is why it sits in my closet. The Apex is also a completely different system and an entire overhaul. It was not simply a ACIII update. The entire way the system functions has been re-engineered.

I just brought a RKE and its was so easy to set up and i did it all on the web. Not sure what you are talking about. My reef 2.0 works amazing and I can access that through remote log in on my PC and i did not set up a DNS server. So i dont not even in the net module.

So you have to leave a computer running 24/7 to get remote access? Exactly why I think myReef is a mostly useless program. I would rather have a web interface on the actual controller than a $1000 accessory to access it (a computer). Not to mention a remote desktop is slower, and a completely arcane way of managing such a simple device remotely.

I do have a preference for my system but i'm not biased like you guys.

Well we can just differ on opinion here. I would say a person with extensive ownership and experience with both products is the one who is unbiased, the person who touts one product without firm experience with the other is biased in my opinion. My loyalties are with whichever product is better, because that is what I am paying for, a better product. Here in another few months, if the Cerebra lives up to the expectation it may be my new controller.

People are not buying a RKE from 2009....

I think the problem is that they are. There haven't been a whole lot of major changes since the device came out, at least none that really put it ahead of any of the competition. Neptune constantly adds software features and has new modules and product improvements in the pipeline. DA is constantly playing catch up trying to keep up with Neptune in terms of expandability, software, and hardware.

Hope this helps,
Landon

doctorgori

03/08/2012, 08:59 AM

...one glaring goof up in the design of the Apex was leaving off "out the box" float switch support...it seems like such a natural to have ATO built into the base unit; but to do so means shelling out $40 and adding that goofy Break out box (and $80 for a PM1 if you own a Jr.)

...but who knows, maybe they thought leaving it out was a way to keep cost down (but curiously built in vortech ports)...go figure

...I agree that the programming is a lil clunky, but its hard to be flexible/extensible w/o a command line type interface...GUI's are inherently inflexible or hard to design for every possible eventuality (I'm no programmer, just well experienced working with them)

USC-fan

03/08/2012, 09:05 AM

You can build break out box for cheap....DIY plans are all around the net.

Shard

03/08/2012, 09:05 AM

Two Apex units? Not to steal the thread but I need help with trying to access two units....pm sent

Multiple ways of doing this. I assume you have a router at your house? Use port forwarding. Forward one port to one, and another port to the other.
ie:
public IP port 85 to the LAN IP of Apex #1 port 80
public IP port 86 to the LAN IP of Apex #2 port 80

USC-fan

03/08/2012, 09:26 AM

Thank you for posting proof that their customer service was awful, yes that is my post. Also, no need for you to make it personal and call me a jilted lover. Im a former customer because they are not a good company. If they would have responded to my emails within two weeks, or actually provided service, I would have a better opinion of them.

No, Im surprised when they delete hundreds of threads ABOUT SUPPORT. i.e: the ones that continually talk about the constant bugs. They nuked the entire forum because it was proof of a bad and defective product (MyReef 2.0 in May 2011).

Well that was nice of them after taking $200 or more (probe+module) from people over a year earlier. So you call it a free upgrade when they fix something they screwed up a year ago?

Can you send me $200? Don't worry, I will give you a free upgrade in a year.

You should have read my post more carefully, I still own one, and yes, it still has bugs. This is why it sits in my closet. The Apex is also a completely different system and an entire overhaul. It was not simply a ACIII update. The entire way the system functions has been re-engineered.

So you have to leave a computer running 24/7 to get remote access? Exactly why I think myReef is a mostly useless program. I would rather have a web interface on the actual controller than a $1000 accessory to access it (a computer). Not to mention a remote desktop is slower, and a completely arcane way of managing such a simple device remotely.

Well we can just differ on opinion here. I would say a person with extensive ownership and experience with both products is the one who is unbiased, the person who touts one product without firm experience with the other is biased in my opinion.

I think the problem is that they are. There haven't been a whole lot of major changes since the device came out, at least none that really put it ahead of any of the competition. Neptune constantly adds software features and has new modules and product improvements in the pipeline. DA is constantly playing catch up trying to keep up with Neptune in terms of expandability, software, and hardware.

Hope this helps,
Landon
What bugs are with the current rke?

What is new with the ACIII vs apex? Besides the new modules that are out now there is no difference in setting up beside the new modules. I remember when the APEX was released and no was was upgrading bc the only reason was "The Apex is the current model out, and is the one they will be basing all future work on. " That was the main difference. I still see thread in 2012 about people still debating upgrading from ACIII.

I like how you dismiss my ownership of ACIII, guess this doesnt compare to the apex...lol. Apex was a MINOR update to AC III when it was released.

I run my Myreef on my Media center PC that is on all the time. Slower??...you dont know much about remoting into computers...lol. Love that you say you have a computer[$1000] to access it yet you dont, but you need something to access the APEX JR or you cannot do anything with it.

Both are great products....

Shard

03/08/2012, 09:43 AM

What bugs are with the current rke?

I just updated some modules before I left. MyReef still crashes, and some of the modules take several attempts to actually properly load the new firmware.

Other than bugs there is the lack of features or inadequacies. Did they ever add the promised backup feature? Did they ever figure out a way so you don't have to reprogram the entire system when you update it? Can you update it without tearing it apart? The answer to all of these is no.

What is new with the ACIII vs apex? Besides the new modules that are out now there is no difference in setting up beside the new modules. I remember when the APEX was released and no was was upgrading bc the only reason was "The Apex is the current model out, and is the one they will be basing all future work on. " That was the main difference. I still see thread in 2012 about people still debating upgrading from ACIII.

I like how you dismiss my ownership of ACIII, guess this doesnt compare to the apex...lol. Apex was a MINOR update to AC III when it was released.

I don't dismiss your ownership of the ACIII, but it was a major update. I used to be a CS/CE guy so I understand how these are designed. The system is an entire overall, new architecture, new bus system, etc. They did however add a port so you an use your old ACIII modules, which was nice of them to consider their previous customers who may still want to use modules from an older system, DA didn't do that for the RK1 or RK2 (to be fair it isn't really possible the way their system is designed, kind of like how you will never be able to remotely update it and will always have to break it apart to update the firmware, but anyway, back to topic). Saying it is only a minor update from the ACIII to the Apex is like saying the RK2 to RKE was only a minor update.

Slower??...you dont know much about remoting into computers...lol.

Actually I do since I used to do this kind of work, a remote desktop connection is inherently more taxing on a connection than a HTTP connection (web interface). Remote graphical interfaces are always a lot more data intense. I think anyone else here who understands networking will also get a laugh out of your comment. haha.

Also, consider that some people may not like needing to have a computer within USB length of their tank, or the added expense of running a computer 24/7 for remote access.

you need something to access the APEX JR or you cannot do anything with it.

Well, it is a $150 product, and was designed that way intentionally. I actually like the concept. To me, a head unit is becoming less of a necessity as controllers progress in capabilities. For $150 you get net access, temperature, and outlet control? That would cost you $240 with DA products (RKL basic + NET module) and the only other thing you would get is a 2 line LCD and less web interface features. I would rather save the $90 and go with the Apex JR. Thinking of apps.... I use ones on both Android and iOS (iPhone) for both platforms, and the ones for the Apex units are by far superior.

Hope this helps,
Landon

USC-fan

03/08/2012, 10:07 AM

I'm sure they used different chips and new buses to make people buy the new stuff[power bars]. Still doesnt change the fact there were really no new features in the APEX compared to the ACIII. Comparing rke from rk2 to apex from ACIII makes me doubt anything you say....

More taxing on a computer, barely and that is not what you said. You say slower....

I can do all that on a rkl for $119. The only thing I do not get is email alerts and since I use gmail i never even set this up with my ACIII. I couldnt live with out my display and standby buttons. Standby buttons where the main reason i brought a new controller. It takes a simple router failing at the wrong time and you could be in big trouble with the APEX JR.

You paint the picture that the RKE is a flawed product even today... that couldnt be further from the truth. If DA didnt listen and make changes then you points would still be valid. There is still some issue that are still out there, the updating and backing up are still valid. I have never done either. But all systems have their downsides.

Shard

03/08/2012, 10:41 AM

More taxing on a computer, barely and that is not what you said. You say slower....

Actually what I said was...
a remote desktop connection is inherently more taxing on a connection than a HTTP connection (web interface).

As for this, you still don't understand what is being said. I did not say it was more taxing on a computer, it more taxing on your CONNECTION, and is therefore slower. Lets see how simple I can state this. The internet connection you have at your house is most likely a DSL or cable modem, as it is for many people. While they have quite nice download speeds, they often have very limited upload speeds, often as low as 256kbps for some DSL lines. You see, when you have to feed a video/graphical connection (remote desktop) over a 1/4 (256kbps) of a megabit of data bandwidth, it gets difficult. The connection bogs down because there is too much data to 'fit' inside the limited amount of space. This results in a lag between what you do and when you get a response, and in general these types of connections are clunky and slow unless your lucky enough to have an extremely good internet provider with great upload speeds, a much better one than the majority of the country.

Now when comparing a remote desktop connection, to a web interface, it is a no brainer. Sending text data is much easier, faster, and requires less bandwidth, and auxiliary graft. You get a faster response, and it can be done from a web browser and doesn't require extra software such as Remote Desktop Connection, or any other VNC/RDP client, or some Java web based thing like I imagine you use. Are you really trying to tell me this hodgepodge setup of a computer wired to your reef tank via USB and constantly on is in some way better than the device actually having a full featured web interface to do all these things itself? haha.

Other than this, I'm done. Think whatever you want, but if I remember correctly the ACIII doesn't control Vortechs, Tunzes, AI fixtures or other LEDs, as well as several other things. I guess those aren't new features. I'm with james, haha, I give up. Keep beating the drum if you want.

Landon