Identify: Small tube worm type things

[porschefan]

Hey Guys

My 55 Gal tank is becoming overrun with these small tube creatures. Ive never actually seen anything come out of the top but i have seen small almost invisible gossamer strings coming from them.

The cases are hard and they are growing all over the rocks, including on my Hammer which refuses to open as they grow very close to it.

Is it a pest? How can i control the numbers? Anyone know what their called so i can search for more info?

Cheers

http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww346/porschefan931/Hammer.jpg

http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww346/porschefan931/overflow.jpg

[jlinzmaier]

Those are vermetid snails. Do some research on them post back if you have more questions. There aren't any really good natural "reef safe" predators so the best means of control is manual removal and decreasing food particulate in the water that they capture with their "strings/webs" to feed on.

Jeremy

[Cracken]

That anemone is really small

[ludnix]

It's not an anemone, it's an hammer coral.

[Metal7fold22]

i have those everywhere...i always wondered what they were..usually if you disturb them by bllowing water on them with a turkey baster or somethin than usually that gooey stringy stuff comes out...gets everywhere..but i never had problems with them with other corals...they do hurt sometimes if you scrape your finger on them but there pretty brittle and easy to take off...if you dont like them just break them off

[jlinzmaier]

usually if you disturb them by bllowing water on them with a turkey baster or somethin than usually that gooey stringy stuff comes out...gets everywhere..but i never had problems with them with other corals...

That gooey string is what captures the particles like a spider web. They put out the string then bring it back in and pick through what it has collected. The string itsself is ofted irritating to corals - primarily SPS. The tubes of the vermetid snails are detrimental to LPS becuase as the LPS expand their tissue they will likely rub against the rigid and sharp tube causing damage to their delicate tissue.

Jeremy

[brendondreher]

From personal experience if you manually remove what you can from power heads, the back of the tank and open areas on your rock work, keep up with water changes and skimming the numbers will drop. Also helps to blow of the mucus that they use for feeding. Deny them food and they wont last long.

[porschefan]

Thanks Guys, i broke off the ones on the hammer and various other places, got some nice thin slash marks on my thumb now :) they are pretty hard.

Just did a water change, and i'll cut back on feeding.

Shame there isn't much in the way of natural predators for them

Thanks

EDIT: Now that i know what they are, found this interesting article http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rs/index.php

Thanks guys

[sahin]

I used to have a few vermetids in my old nano tank. No way as densely populated as you have though. Something in your tank must be feeding those, you either have the right right amount of detritus or other "food" in your water column for them.

You need to reduce dissolved nutrients and available suspended particles in the water column. Do you have a skimmer on your tank? You might want to use polyfilter or similar to remove these suspended particles and trap them in the floss so that the vermitids dont have as much food.

Also, are you what are you feeding the tank? These worms are feeding and reproducing at a great rate in your tank because the conditions are most suitable. Let me know what you are feeding your tank. Stuff like tiny flake food and smaller size such as cyclopeze may be contributing. Ultimately, by reducing thier food you will control their numbers.

Meanwhile, can you just use something hard that is plastic etc to push and break thier tubes? That would kill some of them.

[porschefan]

I think we may be feeding a little too much, only have 2 clowns a chromis and shrimp that helped tackle an Aiptasia issue we had a while back. We may be moving in a few months so we haven't been adding anything else to it.

Normally feed, dried pellets, a home made concoction of clams nori vitamins, spirulina and cyclopeze all varied throughout the week.

I have a Turboflotor 1000 skimmer and i did note i was getting some red slime algae in my sump and also some weird red fibrous algae on the rocks and overflow.

All this was pointing to the fact i was prolly overfeeding :) remedying that now

[arredondojason]

here is a good link with pics and ways to get rid of them have fun.

http://www.melevsreef.com/id/vermetid.html

[jlinzmaier]

The vermetids definately feed on suspended particles of food, detritus, etc... To remedy this you can add filter socks, feed less, and feed pellet food as opposed to stuff like rods food. Unfortunately what most poeple overlook is how important that particulate material is to the other marine life in your tank. By limiting the vermetids food supply you will limit their growth and reproduction however, you will also be limiting a food supply for other fauna that feed on that stuff too. The "other critters" that feed on tiny particulate material create a natural balance of a healthy supply of food for fish and corals as well as contributing to a healthy and thriving reef by managing waste and filtering the water. I've got a scenario to help understand the benefits of a biologically "well established" reef system:

Take a 100 gallon tank that has been up for several years and maintained with good husbandry. If you would scoop out some sand and pull out a rock to examine, you would find a whole world of life that you may not notice just looking at the tank - worms, pods, sponges, tunicates, etc....

Take another 100 gallon tank freshly established and cycled. You will not find the same level of biodiversity in this tank simply becuase it hasn't had time to become as significantly biologically established. Even if this new tanks water params test perfect and everything is right on you will have a much higher mortality rate if you would add delicate corals as opposed to when you would add those same corals to the well established tank. Now, there are a thousand and one factors that can influence that experiment but just think about the basic concepts of the example. In the ocean, there is food of all varieties, shapes, and sizes that these fish and corals are exposed to on a constant basis. Biodiversity is held with much less importance than it should (IMO) and limiting various sizes and types of food sources will limit biodiversity.

Overgrowth of vermetids is a tough situation. Feed less small food and limit water column particulate to limit the growth of vermetids which "may" inadvertantly limit the growth and reproduction of other fauna -or- keep on as is and find another way to deal with the vermetids. The answer likely lies somewhere in the middle, but that is up to you.

I have a forcepts that I use to crush these guys and I'm able to keep them in check. There was a time when they were out of control in my tank and I was losing the battle (I had a higher concentration on my LR than what you show growing on the pump and cord in your picture). They were even growing on top of established SPS coral tissue which would cuase the tissue to die off in that area. I did the aforementioned filtration and limiting of particulate in the water column. I eventually started winning the battle but have since changed several aspects of my reefkeeping husbandry to allow for the best chance of fauna diversity possible. Currently, I feed massive amounts of small particulate food several times a day yet I still have only light reproduction of vermetids. I have also since changed my filtration system by adding an algae turf scrubber (ATS) at the same time removing all mechanical filtration from my system (all I have now is a powerful skimmer and my ATS). One would think that using an ATS, which essentially provides more particualte material to the tank than other means of nutrient management, and removing the filter socks would cause a huge outbreak in the vermetid populations (since both of those actions massively increase their food source). Not the case! I believe the ATS is providing enough filtration to clean the water of other unwanted nutrients that the vermetids likely need to thrive. I have no proof to show that vermetids need nothing more than particulate food to multiply like crazy, but my tank is a good example to show that by changing the amounts of small particualte food doesn't always directly affect the reproduction of vermetids.

I still occasionally have to crush 4 or 5 that are close to corals and causing some irritation, but they are far from being a problem at this point. At most, I may squish 10 a month yet the heavy feedings of various types of food has significanly increased the fuana diversity and significantly improved the health of the fish and corals.

Wish you the best of luck! Now that you know what your dealing with you can get a better handle on how to manage them.

Jeremy

[arredondojason]

take a tube of superglue gel and just cover the openings on the tubes they will die off and the easiest way to kill them

[reefergeorge]

I had them all over in my nano cube, and they just went away. I think they are just another thing people stress over that they shouldn't. Kinda like hair algae. :)

[porschefan]

Thanks for the input guys. I've been interested in an algal scrubber but never really pursued it, i'll have a read around see how difficult they are to set up.

@jlinzmaier you have any tips on ATS setup

[Mr. Brooks]

Those things are the devil.

[JeF4y]

needle nose pliers & 15 minutes worth of your time...

[jlinzmaier]

Thanks for the input guys. I've been interested in an algal scrubber but never really pursued it, i'll have a read around see how difficult they are to set up.

@jlinzmaier you have any tips on ATS setup

An ATS is the easiest and the cheapest DIY project I've ever done. Not to mention it has been more effective at nutrient management than carbon dosing and has only affected the corals positively (no chance of stripping nutrients too fast or too low as you might run into with carbon source dosing.) The maintenance of it only takes 5-10 minutes once or twice a week. Total cost for the project was no more than $30 and it took about 45 min to build.

Take a look at some info on them here.
http://http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=9&sid=13ebf9fd7dd10e7b8724ba3332857514

If you decide you want to use one and have more questions don't hesitate to ask.

Jeremy