Profilux Probe questions

[stealle]

It looks like the Profilux probes (i.e. conductivity, pH, etc) are kind of expensive. I'm trying to find out more info about them but the product descriptions on the retail sites are lacking. Makes me want to consider using third party probes instead. Is that possible? Can you tell me what makes your probes different from other third party probes? How accurate are your probes? Also, are there any other probes in the works? Like is a calcium probe possible?

[AQD_ottawa]

Hiya

ALL GHL probes originate from German pharmaceutical probe manufacturers. Where as 99.99% of all other probes come from the far east, i can happily post here links to the manufacturers over in China, you will see some very familiar probes!!

GHL Probes come with lab test certificates please see image below

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i159/monitors-direct/scan0001.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i159/monitors-direct/scan0002-1.jpg

ALL GHL probes have warranties as follows

pH - 6 months
Redox - 6 Months
Salinity/Cond - 1 year
Temp - 1 Year
oxygen - 6 months
Humidity - 1 year

Most probe manufacturers offer limited 3 month or no warranties at all on probes as they are classed as degenerative in other words they start to break down the moment they are used and subject to many variances. However GHL put their faith in probes used in labs with proven test certificates.

In regards to quality/cost other than what is stated above, have a look round other forums and look for actual genuine probe failures then come back on this forum and see if you see any difference especially with temperature and pH probes. I am not saying I have never had a sibgle probe fail, of course I have but so very very few, I think 3 "GHL" pH probes in 3 years, 1 salinity (due to the platnum being scratched off in over zealous cleaning) and no Redox probes that i am aware of, and no temperature probes.

In regards to using other probes, for pH yes you can, we actually supply a cheaper probe for those who want it. Other probes no, GHL prefer to make sure their units only are attached the best possible quality that they can govern.

Calcium probes are a long way off, there are some dip test probes out there but I have had bad experience with these a long time ago. The membranes used have to be cleansed after reading and as such can not be used for permenant use.

I hope this goes a long way in answering your very important questions

I would also urge you to look at this post.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1711730

Recently GHL opened their doors to the GHL facility so you can see exactly where your equipment comes from, nothing hidden, I would love other manufacturers to be this open it would really show buyers how and where their controllers are developed and made.

I will never shy from the statement GHL IS more expensive, I am proud that it is as the money you spend is in quality, reliability and strong future development. GHL will never get involved in cut throat price wars that could potentially leave not much for future development or investment into their important client base.

[AQD_ottawa]

One thing I will add, I see a lot of miss information on RC in regards to GHL price, one user recently stating it would cost them over $1000 for a GHL and Doser, well naturally this depends on what package they are looking at but normally based on entry level price comparisions

http://www.progressivereef.com/proddetail.php?prod=GHL2ECO
http://www.progressivereef.com/proddetail.php?prod=PL-0348

Total $801.00USD!!

German quality for a lot less than $1000. We see this a lot on RC over inflated pricing being mentioned, sadly i am unable to defend the product in the open forum.

[stealle]

Wow! very thorough answer. Thanks! If I have a choice between saving a few dollars vs quality... I'll pick quality every time. I figure instruments like this MUST be accurate otherwise why even bother using them.

Do you have numbers on accuracy? (i.e. temp probe accurate to +/-.1 degree; pH probe accurate to +/- .01) I guess what I'm asking is what is the margin of error. Most devices that measure something are known to be "off" by a certain degree of measurement. For example a temp probe that is only accurate to +/- 1 degree is not a very accurate probe IMO, while a temp probe that is accurate to +/- .5 degree is better.

[AQD_ottawa]

Hiya

PH is accurate to .001

Temp is accurarate to .1 degree-C

You can also set an offset in the software for the temp if you wish to doubt its accurate reading :(

[Reefun]

One thing I will add, I see a lot of miss information on RC in regards to GHL price, one user recently stating it would cost them over $1000 for a GHL and Doser, well naturally this depends on what package they are looking at but normally based on entry level price comparisions

http://www.progressivereef.com/proddetail.php?prod=GHL2ECO
http://www.progressivereef.com/proddetail.php?prod=PL-0348

Total $801.00USD!!

German quality for a lot less than $1000. We see this a lot on RC over inflated pricing being mentioned, sadly i am unable to defend the product in the open forum.

http://www.progressivereef.com/proddetail.php?prod=PL-0507 517.46

http://www.progressivereef.com/proddetail.php?prod=GHL2ECO 465.05

So 982.51 I guess I was off a few dollars But I was thinking I would have to pay shipping. I really think that is close enough to call it a grand. Sorry if I offended anyone. I am still really considering at least going with the 4 pump stand alone doser. And I did also say if I could just get what ever I wanted I would go with the Profilux controller and doser.

[stealle]

http://www.progressivereef.com/proddetail.php?prod=PL-0507 517.46

http://www.progressivereef.com/proddetail.php?prod=GHL2ECO 465.05

So 982.51 I guess I was off a few dollars But I was thinking I would have to pay shipping. I really think that is close enough to call it a grand. Sorry if I offended anyone. I am still really considering at least going with the 4 pump stand alone doser. And I did also say if I could just get what ever I wanted I would go with the Profilux controller and doser.

You guys are pricing different pumps. AQD_ottawa is posting links for 3-pump and Reefun is posting for 4-pump

This seems like the best deal I can find (although I haven't looked at shipping):

4-Pump Model for $391.14
http://www.ghl-direct.com/proddetail.php?prod=PL-0349

3-Pump Model for $328.03
http://www.ghl-direct.com/proddetail.php?prod=PL-0348

Profilux II basic for $465.05
http://www.progressivereef.com/proddetail.php?prod=GHL2ECO

So the lowest cost I can find is: 3-pump setup for $793.08 or $4-pump set-up for $856.19

[stealle]

Also, Reefun, you are pricing the "stand-alone" 4-pump model. The stand-alone has a built in "controller" that allows you to program the dosing pumps schedule. You would only buy the stand-alone model if you are not using a profilux controller. If you are using a profilux controller you would just use the lower cost 4-pump unit since you would control the pumps with the controller.

[stealle]

AQD_ottawa gives a better description of the dosing pumps here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1714058

The first post in that link he describes the "SA" (stand-alone) model. In the second post he describes the "slave-model".

If you don't own a Profilux controller and are only interested in controlling dosing pumps then you would want to buy the stand-alone model. (plus you can add an additional slave model to have up to 8 pumps)

If you are considering a Profilux controller (interested in controlling lights, dosing pumps, a variety of water pumps, monitoring pH, temp, salinity, oxygen, and many more features) then you only need the "slave model".

[Reefun]

Stealle

you are correct I was looking at the wrong doser the one I would want is 400$ not 500$
Thanks for the links I am saving for the controller and doser combo as of tonight might take two or three months but I'm going for the good stuff. Thanks for the help and the info :)

[stealle]

Stealle

you are correct I was looking at the wrong doser the one I would want is 400$ not 500$
Thanks for the links I am saving for the controller and doser combo as of tonight might take two or three months but I'm going for the good stuff. Thanks for the help and the info :)

Sure no prob.:beer:

This is an expensive hobby. Sometimes you can cut corners, go cheap, and save money. This is one area of the hobby I don't plan on cutting corners. This controller is like the life support system for are reef tanks. I'm saving up and will most likely get the Profilux 3 and a 4-pump set-up. I don't think we will regret our decision.;)

[AQD_ottawa]

Hi to both of you on our forum, it is great to see you here where you can get all the right info. I do watch the posts on the general forum but am unable to chime in and help people out. It is nice to be able to interact and have a good old fashion bar brawl over controllers, I love it :) we always have a beer and make up aftwerwards of course.

In regards to pricing, you will see some variations depending on where you buy, much of this is down to the fact the product is imported into canada first and so canadian dealers historically have been more inclined to stock the GHL over other brands that come out of the USA. We also do not flood the market with the controller, this just leads to inter dealer price wars and a real mess, i prefer to have control over my dealers and make sure everyone gets fair play which ultimately is positive for the client, less time racing around trying to find that golden nugget deal.

Progressive reef price in CAD but also show the live USD$ currency exchange rate so PR have become the number 1 purchase point for GHL in the USA.

GHL direct is our own site, set up for those who like to purchase direct from the distributor. Prices there should equal PR's prices at present I think there is a variant that needs adjusting.

In regards to packs and the differences in the controllers and functionality from pack to pack. The ProfiLux plus II no matter what pack you buy has the same functions the differences are in the upgrade kit fitted to the EX giving onboard salinity and redox and a 3rd level port. You also get a 6 socket digital power bar with ALL packs above entry level, remember the controller in the entry level is the exact same controller in the rest of the packs with the same functions remembering what I just said about the EX though

The family tree

ProfiLux Plus II is the bed rock controller from there by fitting upgrade kits it can be turned into a ProfiLux Plus II EX and by fitting a ProfiLux 3 kit you can turn it into a ProfiLux 3 EX

You can also buy a profiLux plus II EX out of the box just as you will be able to buy the P3.

Now dont get confused by this :)

You do not need to have a plus II EX to turn your controller into a profiLux 3!! BIG misconception that one

The upgrade kits are totaly seperate from each other!

A plus II can be turned into a Profilux 3

A Plus II ex can be turned into a Profilux 3EX

At any time you can turn a ProfiLux 3 into a P3 EX by installing the EX upgrade kit

Does that make sense ? Boy and thats all before my first coffee of the day!

Price wars - I just will not get involved! My question will always be at what impact to development or quality?

GHL have seperated themselves out of this type of market and focused on (as always in the past) building units with product development in mind and above all quality. GHL are happy to show you inside their facility so you can see what goes on, you can see where you money is spent and give you a snap shot of the development of your controller.

No GHL is not cheap and it never will be, however it is priced as low as possible without compromising future development and investment. The last thing GHL wants is the client in 2 years time having to throw away that large investment and buy new even if you did get a deal at the time, if you did that all of a sudden that cheap deal you got 2 years ago is no longer that cheap! GHL want the client to grow with the brand and enjoy the benefits and upgrades that come in time. Yes pay more now by investing in your controllers future and more important reliability.

How far can GHL keep expanding the P3 as it is now? Who knows, it is purely client driven in regards to what features they will require in the future, but one thing is for sure, I know many things GHL are working on right now, you guys are in for a fun ride ;)

When you look at the amount of third party accessories that can be controlled by GHL then look at where you will save money by not having to buy extra stand alone controllers for example tunze, again GHL suddenly becomes rather affordable! Yes other controllers can or most likely very soon control Tunze as well, but GHL is not limited to just that pump, and furthermore I am not sure if the software (which may cost you extra) matches that of the ProfiLux control? i dont know I am actually asking? Can other controllers control 8 Tunzes? And can they match the same level of functions available? Can they control the wave box?

What i am trying to say is that what you pay for something when it is more expensive, does not mean you are JUST paying a more expensive price, how can that more expensive controller SAVE you money down the road?