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View Full Version : Hard Time Stabilizing Alk and Calc


reefyourself
10/01/2009, 09:27 AM
Hey everyone,

This is what I currently have in my tank:

Stony:
Frogspawn, Crocea, Ora Red Planet Frag, Montipora Frag, Open Brain Coral, CandyCane, Acans (13 heads)

Softies:
Zoas, Pulsing Zenia, 2 Ricordias, 1 mushroom


I seem to have a hard time stabilizing my parameters.

Everyday I get a drop of
ALK: 4meq/L to 3meq/L
CAL: 440ppm to 410ppm

I am not sure if I should be dosing everyday to keep these levels up. Water changes don't actually keep my parameters up but bring them down.

Please help appreciated.

Henry Bowman
10/01/2009, 09:41 AM
You are in a position now that requires daily or every other day dosing. Most hard corals (SPS especially) are quite sensitive to Alk swings, even small ones.

My corals never really took off growing until I started automating this part of the supplementation process. This is done either by Calcium Reactor or Dosing pumps.
I had a Ca Rx but did not particularly like the depressed pH that tends to happen when using one so I went with a doser. I now dose 3 parts, Ca, Alk and Mg. All of which you can get from a reactor also.

Depending on what you are using to supplement, you can calculate the needed daily addition to make things somewhat simpler. I would recomend obtaining and sticking to one brand of Ca / Alk / Mg supplement. I use Bulk Reef Supply. They are the least expensive. I follow thier recipes but WEIGH the dry ingredients so that the solutions are as consistent as possible. If you chose to dose a pre-mixed 2 part like ESV, follow the instructions closely. There is also a good 2 part calculator here

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

While figuring the exact amount of chemical to add to my tank, I burned through Ca, Alk and Mg test kits. Now, I only check these parameters weekly. They are very stable and my corals love it (grow and color nicely) !

For the health of your tank, I'd recomend getting the supplements, extra test kits, get the daily dosage figured out and dose daily, test often and enjoy how your tank looks !

Chris27
10/01/2009, 09:48 AM
Have you tested your Magnesium? Very low levels of Mg will make it almost impossible to keep Carbonate and Calcium levels stable.

Billybeau1
10/01/2009, 09:58 AM
Also water changes should not lower your parameters unless you are supplementing. It sounds like you are not.

Depending on your tank size, that does seem a little excessive for a daily consumption rate.

Can you give us tank size, which salt mix you use and how often and what % are your water changes ?

reefyourself
10/01/2009, 10:25 AM
Total system volume is 25 gallons

reefyourself
10/01/2009, 10:25 AM
The salt mix I use is Marine Environment and I do 12% water changes weekly (around 3 gallons of water)

Billybeau1
10/01/2009, 10:39 AM
Well, the good thing is your magnesium level is probably ok. ME has more than enough for your reef. Your water change schedule is more than adequate IMO.

You probably will need to supplement alkalinity daily or at least every other day as Henry stated. You can use baking soda for this and mix it in your top off water. Lets say you evaporate 1/2 gallon every 2 days. Then just use the calculator Henry posted and adjust your alkalinity that way. You can also boost your calcium maybe once a week between water changes to keep it at or above 420 ppm. Any calcium chloride product will work for that as well as some of the diy's on the market today. If you do not like diy's, Turbo Calcium by Kent and Reef Complete by Seachem will do the job nicely. They are both listed in the calculator.

Good luck.

reefyourself
10/01/2009, 10:42 AM
I just finished measuring Magnesium and I am at 1325ppm

reefyourself
10/01/2009, 10:44 AM
Is my dosing regimen supposed to be based on what alk and calc stabilize in 2 days and take it from there or daily?

Billybeau1
10/01/2009, 10:49 AM
It is really up to you and your husbandry schedule. You may very well get away with supplementing every couple of days. Then again maybe not.

If you have the time to supplement daily, this can only help improve the consistency of your water quality which is what we are striving for.

Only some daily testing for a week or so will tell you that. Once you get it figured out, only occasional testing will be needed.

Henry Bowman
10/01/2009, 11:31 AM
Is my dosing regimen supposed to be based on what alk and calc stabilize in 2 days and take it from there or daily?

The idea is to be as consistent as possible.

If your Ca / Alk is not dropping more than say .2 per day, you are going to have a difficult time determining actual consumption since the test kits are generally not accurate to this level.

..... this is how I would determine the need. It could be done daily, every 2 -3days etc. If the test kit is not showing a significant drop, extend the time by a day so you can get an idea of what is really going on.

If your tank's inhabitants are not stressed, start with not supplementing for
(3) +/- days, or wherever you are comfortable with starting. Take Ca and Alk readings a few hours after you do a water change. Then take the same readings at near the same time of day three days later. (no water change in between, doing so will skew the results). At this point you can use some supplements to bring the Ca and Alk back closer to targeted goals. With 3 +/- days of "consumption" you should be able to get an idea of "average consumption"...

Then, start supplementing and testing on a regular schedule, daily, every other day etc. Make sure during this time period you test beforehand, the add supplements, wait a few hours and test again to confirm the supplement addition. After doing this a few times, you will have a real good idea of the actual daily consumption and should be able to keep your reef stable.

It's a task and somewhat difficult when you start but down the road your reef will reward your efforts with better growth and colors.

Hoping I havent been too redundant and somewhat helpful...I have too much caffeine in me this morning and the ADD is really kicking in:D

reefyourself
10/01/2009, 12:05 PM
Is it possible that sand absorbs carbonates?

Tommy Tang
10/01/2009, 12:47 PM
I have same issue Can same one pales ex plane me how much of the 2part i need to add to to my system?
akl 7
cal 390
mag 1280
my akl swing a lot
thank you

Billybeau1
10/01/2009, 12:57 PM
I have same issue Can same one pales ex plane me how much of the 2part i need to add to to my system?
akl 7
cal 390
mag 1280
my akl swing a lot
thank you

Use this calculator to determine dosage.

Reef Chemicals Calculator
http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

Billybeau1
10/01/2009, 12:59 PM
Is it possible that sand absorbs carbonates?

Your tank will always consume alkalinity. The trick is to maintain it at an acceptable level. Most of not all tanks have this problem.

Tommy Tang
10/01/2009, 01:19 PM
Use this calculator to determine dosage.

Reef Chemicals Calculator
http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

thank you i did use the calculator to get Akl and cal up, my question is now that things are correct how much of the 2part i need to add to keep things stabilize.
tomek

Billybeau1
10/01/2009, 01:22 PM
You need to find out what your tanks consumption rate is say daily or every two days, then apply the numbers to the calculator to maintain it.

It may take a week or so of daily testing, but once you get it figured out, you will only have to test every now and then to check.

Tommy Tang
10/01/2009, 01:43 PM
OK i will, just so i have clear understanding and correct me if i wrong.If my akl is now 9 and i check tomorrow and is 8 so my consumption is 1 ml per day?
tomek

Billybeau1
10/01/2009, 01:59 PM
Well, it gets a little more complicated then that. There is usually a little test noise in hobby grade test kits, so I would not bet on it being exact every time.

Usually a kit can be off 1 dkh either way. Just the nature of the beast.

I might try checking in 3 days and see how much it drops. Then adjust and do it again in another 3 days to verify your results.

Soon you will get a feel for your consumption rate.

Tommy Tang
10/01/2009, 02:03 PM
Thank you but i know Akl swinging is not a good thing.
tomek

reefyourself
10/02/2009, 09:38 AM
Does anyone know where I can find Prestone or Dowflake? I live in the Montreal area?

bertoni
10/02/2009, 04:34 PM
Winter's coming up soon, but at the moment, you might have to go online to get anything.

Tommy Tang
10/04/2009, 09:29 PM
Well, it gets a little more complicated then that. There is usually a little test noise in hobby grade test kits, so I would not bet on it being exact every time.

Usually a kit can be off 1 dkh either way. Just the nature of the beast.

I might try checking in 3 days and see how much it drops. Then adjust and do it again in another 3 days to verify your results.

Soon you will get a feel for your consumption rate.

so i test on day 1 it was 8 today is down to 7, i add some of part 2 so it dose not fall more.
Tomek

DeathWish302
10/05/2009, 09:37 AM
Does anyone know where I can find Prestone or Dowflake? I live in the Montreal area?


I have a 5gallon bucket of Prestone Driveway Heat you can have if you pay for shipping.

reefnjunkie
10/05/2009, 09:44 AM
For those with tht large swings, have you considered a calc reactor.
Mine keeps me dialed at Ca450 and KH 10.5.
Intial investment may be a drag, but I dont regret it at all-peace of mind for my Acros-Those swings are not good-IMO