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tegee
10/01/2009, 08:24 PM
I have been battling uncomfortably high nitrates (15-20ppm) for about a year now. I have been using API and Salifert test kits. Is there a better and/or more accurate test kit on the market? If this has been discussed before I apologize, but with the new RC format some of the treads are missing when i went on to search that topic. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thx............

uncleof6
10/01/2009, 08:33 PM
I would say that both La Motte and Elos are both excellent test kits, however the Salifert kits are highly regarded, with the exception of the alkalinity kit that has had a tendency to give extreme high false readings. I would suspect a problem with your nitrate export/processing in your tank, rather than a problem with a Salifert test kit, to be honest, though. And some adjustment needs to be made to your husbandry, or system. :)

Regards,

Jim

Billybeau1
10/01/2009, 09:09 PM
API is great for high range nitrate testing but not low.

Salifert is great for low range testing but not high.

Those are the two I recommend for each case.

I have not tested LaMottes or Elos's nitrate kits.

tntneon
10/02/2009, 03:48 AM
API is great for high range nitrate testing but not low.

Salifert is great for low range testing but not high.

Those are the two I recommend for each case.

I have not tested LaMottes or Elos's nitrate kits.

+1

greetingzz tntneon:)

xmjxflipx
10/02/2009, 07:15 AM
+1 on lamotte and elos.........but for functionality and price id prob get a salifert for me

bertoni
10/02/2009, 04:30 PM
If money is no object, the nitrate meter by PinPoint seems to be very nice, although not any easier to use than a kit. It has the potential to be quite accurate. I'd likely just stick with the Salifert, API, or Elos, though. :) They should be accurate enough to help with any needed diagnosis. Hobbyists don't need all that much accuracy in nitrate measurement.

Nanook
10/02/2009, 05:07 PM
I prefer Lamotte for low-range nitrate testing. Have used it for years.

tmz
10/02/2009, 10:11 PM
I use salifert and api.

Flipper62
10/02/2009, 10:42 PM
I have both the PinPoint Nitrate tester as well as the Salifert kit. They both seem to be very close when I compare them.

So......PinPoint...$275.00 Salifert...$25.00

You need to do the math on what you can afford to spend. In my opinion, I like the PinPoint. BUT the Salifert is much cheeper & works just fine.

Billybeau1
10/03/2009, 06:30 AM
I think with all of the vodka threads and reducing nitrates and such, it is time to test nitrate kits. It is about time to put this all to rest.

I'm on it. :D

After all, you all know I'm a testing fool. :jester:

tegee
10/03/2009, 08:43 AM
I plan on purchasing an Elos nitrate kit and already have an API and Salifert. Currently I have API at 20ppm and the Salifert is testing a bit lower at approximately 15ppm (tough to tell with the color chart:-).

I will post the three readings once I have all three kits going......

saltysteven
10/03/2009, 08:47 AM
HACH
is one of the best professional kits on the market for Nitrate

tegee
10/03/2009, 03:27 PM
HACH
is one of the best professional kits on the market for Nitrate

Where do you purchase Hach test kits? I may consider including in my mini experiment.

Billybeau1
10/03/2009, 03:30 PM
I prefer Lamotte for low-range nitrate testing. Have used it for years.

Hi Dave, I was looking at the LaMotte Nitrate kit in the catalog. Aside from it costing $56, I noticed that it measures nitrate nitrogen and not nitrate. I am wondering if the instructions explain that and tell you if you want your nitrogen reading you need to multiply your result by 4.4 ?<sub></sub>

Billybeau1
10/03/2009, 03:40 PM
Where do you purchase Hach test kits? I may consider including in my mini experiment.

You can order them from Hach's website at Hach.com

However, the nitrate color disc test runs around $110. I think I'll stick with the hobby grades. :lol:

saltysteven
10/03/2009, 04:26 PM
well i will say if your interested to know very precisely whats going on with your nitrate - buy HACH
pricey but what isnt in this hobby
http://www.hach.com/hc/search.product.details.invoker/PackagingCode=1416100/NewLinkLabel=Nitrogen%2C+Nitrate+Test+Kit%2C+Model+NI-14%2C+Color+Disc%2C+50+tests/SESSIONID%7CCVRJMk1pWm5kV1Z6ZEZCTldrOVpNVEkxTkE9PUNUWXdPRFk0Tg==%7C

Bryan
10/03/2009, 04:27 PM
Yes, the Lamotte instructions state to convert to Nitrate NO3, multiply by 4.4

I am wondering if the instructions explain that and tell you if you want your nitrogen reading you need to multiply your result by 4.4 ?<sub></sub>

tegee
10/03/2009, 05:52 PM
I think I might just stick with Salifert and purchase a new Elos and see what's up from there. Hach and lamotte; might as well try to find a good used digital nitrate monitor for that price imho.

I'll keep everyone posted as soon as I but the Elos. BTW: just check nitrate with API and Salifert. API came in at 15ppm and Salifert at 5ppm. Go figure??? Am I doing soemthing wrong or is this typical for API to read higher?

Many thx for ALL the great input.

Nanook
10/03/2009, 07:04 PM
Hi Dave, I was looking at the LaMotte Nitrate kit in the catalog. Aside from it costing $56, I noticed that it measures nitrate nitrogen and not nitrate. I am wondering if the instructions explain that and tell you if you want your nitrogen reading you need to multiply your result by 4.4 ?<sub></sub>

Yes, the instructions do.

catman78
10/04/2009, 04:03 AM
tegee,

Please do post results from Elos. I'm in the same boat as you. Have both Salifert and API.

Looking through the side of the Salifert for below 10 ppm. It's difficult to clearly differentiate between readings between 5 and 10.

Hope the Elos is easier to read.

tegee
10/04/2009, 04:29 AM
Yes, I agree the color variance is very difficult. Looking through the side on the Salifert you have to take that reading/number and divide by 10. Yesterday mine was just above the 25 color mark; which is actually 2.5 +/-. I ordered the kit yesterday from MD and it usually takes 3-5 days to get to the east coast. I will post late next week. I am hoping the color variation is more distinctive than Salifert; which is about the only thing I like about API.

Billybeau1
10/04/2009, 05:44 AM
Well, the only problem with API is once you get below 20 ppm or so, it is very difficult to distinguish the actual reading. I like it for high range testing though.

I think I'll get a fresh API, a Salifert, an Elos and a Seachem (why I do not know) :lol:. I've already got a Red Sea and a Sera. That is six brands. I'll have to pass on the LaMotte as the price is a bit much for me to swallow at this time. I really do not want to get into any nitrate kits that come in multi packs.

rsuplido
10/04/2009, 07:13 AM
+1 on LaMotte. Yes you have to multiply by 4.4 but it can measure down to to 1.1 (0.25 x 4.4) ppm. The kit (http://www.marinedepot.com/LaMotte_Nitrate_Test_Kit_3110_Nitrate_Test_Kits_for_Saltwater_Aquariums-LaMotte-LM1115-FITKNA-vi.html) sounds expensive at $57 but you can actually buy refills (http://www.marinedepot.com/LaMotte_Nitrate_Test_Kit_Reagent_Refill_Nitrate_Test_Kits_for_Saltwater_Aquariums-LaMotte-LM1135-FITKNA-vi.html) for about $23 (~50 tests).

Note however that the last step of test includes waiting for 10 minutes. This is why I test for Nitrate first and test for others on the wait-for-10-minutes stage.

Btw, if you are doing the vodka thing, I've managed to get Nitrates down to less than 4.4 ppm but never to 1.1 ppm. I can't even reach 2.2 ppm.

eggiel
10/04/2009, 07:15 AM
I prefer Lamotte for low-range nitrate testing. Have used it for years.

+1 and they have refills

Nanook
10/04/2009, 06:41 PM
Note however that the last step of test includes waiting for 10 minutes. This is why I test for Nitrate first and test for others on the wait-for-10-minutes stage.


LMAO! This is what I do as well. I test nitrate, then alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium...then I read nitrate, then test phosphate.

Nanook
10/04/2009, 06:43 PM
+1 and they have refills

Yep, refills are about $20/each....tough to beat on price and very easy to read. Low range from a quality company....you can take all the rest and test them all you want, I know I have a great test kit that not many know about or use...no biggie that it isn't super popular to me either;)

tmz
10/05/2009, 10:38 AM
+1 on LaMotte. Yes you have to multiply by 4.4 but it can measure down to to 1.1 (0.25 x 4.4) ppm. The kit (http://www.marinedepot.com/LaMotte_Nitrate_Test_Kit_3110_Nitrate_Test_Kits_for_Saltwater_Aquariums-LaMotte-LM1115-FITKNA-vi.html) sounds expensive at $57 but you can actually buy refills (http://www.marinedepot.com/LaMotte_Nitrate_Test_Kit_Reagent_Refill_Nitrate_Test_Kits_for_Saltwater_Aquariums-LaMotte-LM1135-FITKNA-vi.html) for about $23 (~50 tests).

Note however that the last step of test includes waiting for 10 minutes. This is why I test for Nitrate first and test for others on the wait-for-10-minutes stage.

Btw, if you are doing the vodka thing, I've managed to get Nitrates down to less than 4.4 ppm but never to 1.1 ppm. I can't even reach 2.2 ppm.

Interesting observation. My experience with vodka,is the same. \It holds nitrates in the sub 5ppm range but not much lower. Maybe it would if I dosed more but more than 24ml per day of 550g gives me too much mulm and stringy bacteria.

eggiel
10/05/2009, 10:51 AM
Interesting observation. My experience with vodka,is the same. \It holds nitrates in the sub 5ppm range but not much lower. Maybe it would if I dosed more but more than 24ml per day of 550g gives me too much mulm and stringy bacteria.


Do you guys dose bacteria ?

tegee
10/05/2009, 12:15 PM
Do you guys dose bacteria ?


No, and I do not want to dose unless absolutely necessary. I may consider it in the future though if nitrates do not improve.

tmz
10/05/2009, 01:20 PM
Do you guys dose bacteria ?:fun2:No I seem to have plenty.

Billybeau1
10/05/2009, 02:34 PM
Yep, refills are about $20/each....tough to beat on price and very easy to read. Low range from a quality company....you can take all the rest and test them all you want, I know I have a great test kit that not many know about or use...no biggie that it isn't super popular to me either;)

I perform these tests and publish them to educate our members who have little experience with these products. I'm glad you have satisfaction with your product. This, like so many other products, has its pluses and minuses. Popularity has nothing to do with my testing as I have no affiliation with ANY company that sells products to our members. I simply try and provide our members with a snapshot of what they can expect before spending bucks & bucks on products that they may or may not need. Lord knows, this hobby is expensive enough already.

You'd be surprised how many questions we get on which test kit is the best. Kinda like which salt mix is the best, or which carbon is the best, or which GFO is the best. The list goes on and on.

I went ahead and purchased a LaMotte kit for my study and am looking forward to the results. I, personally, do not mind spending a extra few dollars for a product IF it is worth it. We shall see.

The only reason I decided to do this test is because of all of the vodka threads out there and the necessity to monitor nitrate levels while dosing. Otherwise, IMO, nitrate levels should only be tested every now and then in an established aquarium. :)

eggiel
10/05/2009, 03:36 PM
No, and I do not want to dose unless absolutely necessary. I may consider it in the future though if nitrates do not improve.

How long you guys been dosing vodka ?

Billybeau1
10/05/2009, 03:50 PM
I just started a few days ago. I tried it once before but became very negative because my fish got skiddish and I panicked and stopped. Turns out I was dosing way too much initially so I am trying it again with the dosage recommended by a recent article in Reefkeeping Magazine.

reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php)

I am on day 4 and keeping records of all parameters and dosing.

My thanks to Dave for waking up an old man. :)

eggiel
10/05/2009, 04:11 PM
I just started a few days ago. I tried it once before but became very negative because my fish got skiddish and I panicked and stopped. Turns out I was dosing way too much initially so I am trying it again with the dosage recommended by a recent article in Reefkeeping Magazine.

reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php)

I am on day 4 and keeping records of all parameters and dosing.

My thanks to Dave for waking up an old man. :)

Iam just thinking of the effect that TMZ and Tegee are having dosing Vodka and not getting to lower there nitrate lower than 1.1

Could needing a source of a bacteria will help to lower these parameters or skimming wet, control fedding
Maybe they have big fishes that poop to much and could be the effect of not getting lower nitrates

Also Billy correct me if iam wrong the Lamotte test kits reads Nitrates Nitrogen thats the last process of nitrates
so the reading will be the lowest side of the nitrate

Billybeau1
10/05/2009, 05:03 PM
With hobby grade test kits, If one could actually measure 1 ppm of nitrate, I'd say that is about as good as it gets. I'm sure most reefers would be very happy with 1 ppm nitrate.

I do not think adding any extra bacteria would be beneficial to a tank.

On the LaMotte, yes it reads NO<sub>3</sub> -N and not NO<sub>3</sub>.

So if you measure 0.25 ppm (which I understand is the lowest reading), you would multiply that result by 4.4 to get your actual nitrate reading. In this case 1.1 ppm.

In any case, if your nitrates are that low, I suspect you have nothing to worry about. :)

tegee
10/05/2009, 05:41 PM
Iam just thinking of the effect that TMZ and Tegee are having dosing Vodka and not getting to lower there nitrate lower than 1.1

I want to reenforce that I have not tried dosing vodka and I am trying like heck to not at this point for the simple fact I just do not want to dose another product until I get my nitrates under control. I have upgraded my skimmer, added a fuge with chaeto and trying to feed very judicially. I am not against vodka, but want to try to attack it at this level for know. The purpose of the nitrate test kit issue is I have not been lucky with consistent reading from Saifert and API in a comparison and needed to know about others out there that may be more accurate. I have purchased an Elos and will compare all three and report back asap. Unfortunately MD on the west coast takes forever to ship to NY and I am hopeful to have by weeks end.

Hope this helped.......

eggiel
10/05/2009, 06:18 PM
Oh yeah my bad it was rsuplido and TMZ
Anyway tegee I think nobody has gotten to ULN just using chaeto and a fuge as chaeto and fuge will absorbe some nutrients but you have to be cleaning it constantly , and doing weekly water changes to help it

With hobby grade test kits, If one could actually measure 1 ppm of nitrate, I'd say that is about as good as it gets. I'm sure most reefers would be very happy with 1 ppm nitrate.

I do not think adding any extra bacteria would be beneficial to a tank.

On the LaMotte, yes it reads NO3 -N and not NO3.

So if you measure 0.25 ppm (which I understand is the lowest reading), you would multiply that result by 4.4 to get your actual nitrate reading. In this case 1.1 ppm.

In any case, if your nitrates are that low, I suspect you have nothing to worry about.

I think this is the lower we could get with any carbon source system to reading more clear than the color chart as i have tested and still do with the lamotte test kit getting lower to the color of the chart

On the bacteria. Adding more bacteria wont it benefit to lower more nutrients cause adding more vodka will only give you more of a carbon source but if there is a limited group of bacteria and not the enough of them What will consume the extra carbon source ?

tmz
10/05/2009, 11:51 PM
Iam just thinking of the effect that TMZ and Tegee are having dosing Vodka and not getting to lower there nitrate lower than 1.1

Could needing a source of a bacteria will help to lower these parameters or skimming wet, control fedding
Maybe they have big fishes that poop to much and could be the effect of not getting lower nitrates

Also Billy correct me if iam wrong the Lamotte test kits reads Nitrates Nitrogen thats the last process of nitrates
so the reading will be the lowest side of the nitrate

:p
I know about feeding and wet skimming. I have plenty of fish poop with over 40 fish in the 550gallon system along with plenty of mixed corals including sps. .If I didn't or wanted to have skinny fish or less fish I wouldn't need to dose carbon and could manage quite well with more conventional methods alone and wouldchoose them first. I have been dosing vodka/vinegar for over 9 months this time and logged every day. I tried it for about 6 months 4 years ago as well.

I don't think dosing bacteria is necessary .There are plenty of viable bacteria in the tank. What particular strains of bacteria are you dosing btw?

I don't think 0ppm nitrate is necessary Nor are pricey nitrogen supplements employed in the so called ulns systems. If I did I could get to 0ppm nitrates faster by putting my sulfur denitraor back on line. I do not want to dose more than the 24ml of vodka daily because I don't want more harmful extra organic carbon in the tank wether it's free ethanol, acetic acid, glucose.etc or in the bacteria that consumed it. I do not believe that wet skimming alone will export it all.

Anyway,this whole vodka discussion is better left to one the many vodka threads since I don't wan't to participate in hijacking this thread beyond politely answereing your questions and responding to statements about my methods.

So Billy, I'm looking for ward to your test results on NO3 test kits. Glad you took this on.

eggiel
10/06/2009, 09:44 AM
I cant see why not dosing any other bacteria to the systems are not need as looking to Sunnys thread and his great tank and the succes he has have dosing vodka with bacteria strains. Bacterias has there depredators also so they will tend to disbalance one way an other. Thats the reason i think you should dose more bacteria. Because it will add to your exsisten population and lower more your nutrients with you current vodka dosing


Anyway looking to see how the Billys no3 test come out with the diffrent brands i think lamotte will come out good on the test and easy color chart to determine the amount of nitrates
But maybe bad on the process of waiting time. Witch I dont consider it bad

tmz
10/07/2009, 11:30 PM
Eggiel, My tanks are doing fine. Dose bacteria to your tanks if you want.

What particular stains bacteria do you think are better than others and how do you know those in a commercial product are better or different than those in your system? Why should they be? There are plenty of heterotrophic bacteria in my reef system as in most via livestock , rock, etc. Most of which comes from natural bacetrial habitats.

Dosing a commercial concoction to a cycled system won't decrease nutrients unless you dose more carbon for them to consume along with the nitrogen and phosphorous. The basis for carbon dosing is an assumption that a tank is organic carbon limited relative to phosphorous and nitrogen content thus slowing the growth of heterotrophic bacteria. When you add more organic carbon bacteria grow until carbon, nitrogen or phosphorous are limited by consumption and export. Just adding more bacteria will not result in more consumption since there is inadequate organic carbon for the bacteria already there. Adding more organic carbon alone will result in N an P reduction.

As for diversity of bacteria , that has to do with the variety of carbon sources(ethanol, acetic acid, ascorbic acid, glucose, commercial mixes,etc.) since certain strains of bacteria prefer different types of carbon sources and may get an edge or disadvantage if a single type of carbon is dosed..

I'm not totally opposed to adding some proven bacterial strains that would remain viable but I don't think that's the case at all with most if not all commercial products. if it was you wouldn't have to keep dosing them.

Finally, I would not ever tell you what to do with your tank unless you asked and expect the same courtesy.

tegee
10/08/2009, 04:09 AM
Let's leave this bacteria discussion in a Vodka treads:love1: Test kits should be here tomorrow and will post result Friday evening.

tegee
10/11/2009, 07:02 PM
Well the Elos kit finally got delivered and I had a chance today to test all three kits. The API and Elos both cam out about the same; reading in the 15-20 range. The only exception was with the Salifert and that read about 2.5-5.0. Do not know why it read much lower than the other two? The instructions state, on the low range readings, to read through the side and than divide by 10. The is at least how it tested out.

In any event I will continue to test mid-week this week to see if there is any changes with the three different kits, but I at least wanted to post something to nibble on. I am please with the Elos kit, first time Nitrate for me, but the color variation is still tough to make out like the API and Salifert. The color charts are too close in colors and not easy to read IMHO.

Attached ae some pics to see what's up. If my nitrates continue to climb I will make some decisions on what I should do. Likely I am in the process of a new tank build and that should help with new sand, flush the rock and major water change, etc.

Thanks for all the help and I look forward to any insight......


http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq218/turfster26/IMG_0396.jpg

http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq218/turfster26/IMG_0393.jpg

http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq218/turfster26/IMG_0394.jpg

http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq218/turfster26/IMG_0397.jpg

Boomer
10/11/2009, 09:59 PM
The best Nitrate Test Kit

You need to be careful when you make that comment when I'm around :) I can show you Nitrate test kits, yes test kits, that cost as high as ~ $600, they use a test kit in conjunction with a Nessler Tube/Nesslerizier. In the early 90's just the Nessler unit was almost ~$400 and the NO3 - kit ~$100. Or others that use CIE Iluminator Comparators, both that use optical glass lens, not plastic like others.

Nessler Comparator

http://orbeco.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/aquatester.jpg

CIE Iluminator Comparators
http://orbeco.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/200901271122-2.jpg

Billybeau1
10/12/2009, 09:55 AM
Boomer, we are talking "hobby grade" here. Yours do not qualify. :D

I just finished my 8 kit nitrate study. My head hurts. I will chew on the results and post in a new thread. :)

Good job tegee. Nice picks.

tmz
10/12/2009, 11:07 AM
Tegee, thanks for the pictures. I use the salifert and api regularly and don't get the variance you do. They are pretty close in my experience.

Boomer
10/12/2009, 11:32 AM
Boomer, we are talking "hobby grade" here. Yours do not qualify.

I looked and could not find the word "hobby" in the text :D

Billybeau1
10/12/2009, 12:39 PM
:lol2:

tegee
10/12/2009, 01:57 PM
Tegee, thanks for the pictures. I use the salifert and api regularly and don't get the variance you do. They are pretty close in my experience.

Interesting. Are you taking the "low end reading" and dividing by 10 as the instructions state? Because if I do not divide by 10 than the reading/color is about the same 20-25ppm.

LMK

tegee
10/12/2009, 04:56 PM
What are everyone's thoughts regarding the use and/or purchase of a Nitrate Monitor? If my nitrates stay in the 5-15 range is it really worth spending the $$$ on a monitor?

bertoni
10/12/2009, 05:23 PM
If your tank looks the way you want it to look, a nitrate meter is a lot of money for little gain. Generally, I think nitrate test kits are sufficient for hobbyists. If you have a color-blindness problem and coral problems, the meter might be a good investment.

redfishsc
10/12/2009, 05:45 PM
Interesting observation. My experience with vodka,is the same. \It holds nitrates in the sub 5ppm range but not much lower. Maybe it would if I dosed more but more than 24ml per day of 550g gives me too much mulm and stringy bacteria.


I have dosed carbon off and on for the past 6 months (mostly sugar as sucrose or glucose) as well as running a refugium that is about 10% of my system volume size, and I have no trouble at all keeping nitrates at 0.0- 0.25ppm.

I stopped dosing carbon for a while since I suspected it was killing my montipora species, but proliferation of bryopsis and a lesser amount of standard GHA has "forced" me back to dosing glucose. I never once read nitrate above 0.25ppm even after I stopped dosing carbon. I believe the refugium is doing well, it's full of chaeto.


I think with all of the vodka threads and reducing nitrates and such, it is time to test nitrate kits. It is about time to put this all to rest.

I'm on it. :D

After all, you all know I'm a testing fool. :jester:


Looking forward to the results.

My API kit will show a "bright yellow" meaning basically 0-5ppm, meanwhile my Salifert will show a 0.0 or 0.25, depending on how recently I fed and how much.

tmz
10/12/2009, 11:38 PM
tegee, I take the low end reading viewed through the side divided by ten.When nitrates are higher I look through the top with no division.

tegee
10/13/2009, 04:13 AM
tegee, I take the low end reading viewed through the side divided by ten.When nitrates are higher I look through the top with no division.


Thanks tms, that is what the instructions say to do. I do not know if that is what others are doing because it is stated all the way do bottom and not all that clear, so just double checking.