Fish in a frag tank

[SaltSolutions1]

Just curious to know what everyone's opinion is on keeping fish in a frag tank.

Any fish that are recommended would be appreciated as well.

[dendronepthya]

It depends on the size of the tank, but as a general rule, I keep a Ctenochaetus tang (kole, chevron, tomini, etc.) a foxface, and if there is a sand bed an orange spot goby. Every one of my tanks has that trio, however I would not do that in a tank smaller than 100 gallons.

[SaltSolutions1]

my frag tank is a 40g breeder so I was shying away from tangs. My LFS advised that keeping a yellow tang would be ok but 40g is very small. I want something different.

[dendronepthya]

For something that size I would probably just keep it fish free. You can scrub algae all by yourself :)

[SaltSolutions1]

what about pests or algae on rocks and stuff.

I was thinking a six line wrasse
5-6 snails
5-6 hermit crabs
1 lawnmower blenny
1 coral banded shrimp

too much?

I have the snails and hermits in there now already as my LFS recommended it. But, like I said, they also recommended a yellow tang in a 40g tank too so I'm starting to question their advice.

[SaltSolutions1]

bump

[evoracer]

A six line is ok if you suspect you may be bringing in pests like flatworms. I have no fish in my frag tank, but I also QT for a minimum of 3-4 weeks before anything goes into the tank.

[SaltSolutions1]

I don't know what I'm going to be bringing into the tank. I do not have a QT tank. I am just interested in putting things into the tank that serve a specific purpose that will keep my tank clean, free of algae (other that coraline), and pests.

I plan on increasing my cleanup crew gradually until I have 40 snails and 40 hermits so I can rest assured the tank will stay clean and decrease my maintenance a little.

[evoracer]

The only problem with adding fish to a prop IMO is the added bio load and waste. If you are keeping SPS that require pristine water quality, you will have to skim and change more water to keep the water as clean as without the fish.

[SaltSolutions1]

so fish free would be the best option?

what should I feed the tank as far as food goes with blastomussa, birdsnest, a couple acros, digis, hermits, snails, and 1 nubibranch snail?

[LPS_Blasto]

Don't you need some kind of organics in the water? After all, thats what the zoanthelle algae, inside the coral, uses for food. I don't keep SPS though. I only keep LPS, zoas, rics and shrooms. I do keep one small fish in my frag tank. Damsel.

[1DeR9_3Hy]

If you have a nutrient control plan in the works, then fish poop is your best coral food :)

If you dont have a plan to keep N & P low, then fishless (or lesser) is better.

[SaltSolutions1]

If you have a nutrient control plan in the works, then fish poop is your best coral food :)

If you dont have a plan to keep N & P low, then fishless (or lesser) is better.

what kind of plan. can you help me with this. I have a sump/fuge, a skimmer, and I am doing 10% weekly changes. and all I dose is calcium to keep it around 450.

Unless my pH and alk get off I will buff the water and raise the alk but that's all I'm doing so far.

This is a new setup so I don't know what else I should be doing at this point.

What more should I be doing?

If you recommend that fish poop is a good coral food. what fish would be good to get for a 40g breeder, how many fish?, ect.

[1DeR9_3Hy]

what kind of plan. can you help me with this. I have a sump/fuge, a skimmer, and I am doing 10% weekly changes. and all I dose is calcium to keep it around 450.

Unless my pH and alk get off I will buff the water and raise the alk but that's all I'm doing so far.

This is a new setup so I don't know what else I should be doing at this point.

What more should I be doing?

If you recommend that fish poop is a good coral food. what fish would be good to get for a 40g breeder, how many fish?, ect.


Sounds like you have a plan in place :)

Clowns can eat a lot (which = more poop), and dont get too large. I would keep with a cleaner wrasse of some sort, and some clowns. Easy to keep, and they will do there jobs well.

[SaltSolutions1]

Sounds like you have a plan in place :)

Clowns can eat a lot (which = more poop), and dont get too large. I would keep with a cleaner wrasse of some sort, and some clowns. Easy to keep, and they will do there jobs well.

With the cleanup crew I plan to have in the tank I don't think a cleaner wrasse is necessary. If I do 1 snail and 1 hermit per gallon I should have no issues with algae.

I decided to go with a pair of tank raised black percula clowns. They look great and love their new home.

Thank you everyone for all of your input.

[catfishcity]

i have a six line in my 20g frag tank and it is doing great in there.

[LPS_Blasto]

what kind of plan. can you help me with this. I have a sump/fuge, a skimmer, and I am doing 10% weekly changes. and all I dose is calcium to keep it around 450.

Unless my pH and alk get off I will buff the water and raise the alk but that's all I'm doing so far.

This is a new setup so I don't know what else I should be doing at this point.

What more should I be doing?

If you recommend that fish poop is a good coral food. what fish would be good to get for a 40g breeder, how many fish?, ect.


That's a good plan. Start testing magnesium and strontium. I've found that magnesium is just as important as pH and alk for maintaining calcium levels, coral growth and vibrancy. Strontium is sort of a debate, but I think it helps calcifying corals, like SPS and LPS.

Get 1 fish. Doesn't matter what it is, as long as it won't outgrow the tank. Get a damsel. Cheap and it does the job. If it dies, you go get another one for $5. It's a frag tank. Put the pretty and expensive fish in your display. :fish1:

[1DeR9_3Hy]

With the cleanup crew I plan to have in the tank I don't think a cleaner wrasse is necessary. If I do 1 snail and 1 hermit per gallon I should have no issues with algae.

I decided to go with a pair of tank raised black percula clowns. They look great and love their new home.

Thank you everyone for all of your input.


Crabs + snails (not only do they mix rather poorly) = detrivours...i.e. they eat algae/dead coral tissue/and poop(s)

Cleaner wrasse = flat worm destroyer! 90% of the time a cleaner wrasse will be scavenging food from corals. This includes those damned planaria (sp?), or red flat worms! Think of them as your coral janitor :)

[SaltSolutions1]

That's a good plan. Start testing magnesium and strontium. I've found that magnesium is just as important as pH and alk for maintaining calcium levels, coral growth and vibrancy. Strontium is sort of a debate, but I think it helps calcifying corals, like SPS and LPS.

Get 1 fish. Doesn't matter what it is, as long as it won't outgrow the tank. Get a damsel. Cheap and it does the job. If it dies, you go get another one for $5. It's a frag tank. Put the pretty and expensive fish in your display. :fish1:

Oops! I was given 2 tank raised black perculas. I already put them in the frag tank.

The 180g reef tank already has 2 black perculas and 2 white perculas. Plus, it's on display at my office. I did not want to add any more clowns to that setup.

I was told by many including my LFS that the clowns would be a good addition. What do you suggest I do now?

I've had this frag tank setup for about a month now. After putting the two clowns in the tank now has life. It's the only tank in my house right now so I am enjoying having something swimming around in there.

What should I do? I like the damsel idea but it's a little late for that now.

[SaltSolutions1]

Crabs + snails (not only do they mix rather poorly) = detrivours...i.e. they eat algae/dead coral tissue/and poop(s)

Cleaner wrasse = flat worm destroyer! 90% of the time a cleaner wrasse will be scavenging food from corals. This includes those damned planaria (sp?), or red flat worms! Think of them as your coral janitor :)

I agree with you that these fish will destroy the flat worms if I ever have any but this is a newer tank still and I'm afraid that there won't be enough for the wrasse to survive in there. Plus they're jumpers and I have no cover on my tank.

[SaltSolutions1]

bump

[LPS_Blasto]

Leave the clowns in there. That'll work just fine.

[SaltSolutions1]

Leave the clowns in there. That'll work just fine.

Thanks LPS Blasto,

What are your thoughts on cleanup crew. The tank has been up for about 5-6 weeks and I am already getting some coralline all over my egg crate and the glass. I thought it would take longer but I used 40 gallons of water from my 180 to start this tank to decrease the cycle time so I guess it's working as planned.

I have 200 snails and 200 crabs in my 180 and I have yet to use the glass magnet cleaner thing once or any problem with algae.

I was thinking 40 snails and 40 crabs for the frag tank. I have about 15 snails and 25 crabs in there now. I am slowly adding them each week to increase the numbers to about one per gallon.

I also have a 30g sump/fuge plumbed in with an overflow.

I have 8 frags of birdsnest, a couple blasto frags, and a couple frags of SPS that I am trying out to see if my T-5's will do the job. They were a donation from the 180g. I thought I would try it and see what happens. Nothing yet.

Also, I am not collecting hardly anything at all in my skimmer. And when I do, it's very watery. I have a HOB MarineLand Cyclone skimmer. It's got plenty of bubbles but not a whole lot makes it up into the cup. Any suggestions or is this normal with doing so many water changes. I thought with all those frags and now two fish and all those critters I would be collecting more.

Thanks again for your input.

[ehayden]

I have decide to move away from hermits. Just a mix of snails. Ceriths, nassarius, and trochus. It seems like there is more diversity in my tank this way. Hermits eat everything they can get a hold of.

[madean]

IMO I would stay away from the crabs as well. Heck if your water flow is great, I mean great no dead spots no areas for detritus to build up i would even consider not having any clean up crews other then maybe a six line wrasse. But that idea is really hard to achieve. So IMO stay with the snails that have smaller shells. Snails are notorious for knocking over frags. No turbos, astraea, or any big shell snail. Small ceriths, nassarius, nerites, money cowries, and possibly even a bumble bee ( maybe only one or two of these). I really like the nassarius over the bumble bee but the bee is so small and does a great job, IMO should only be put in a BB tank though- they will scavenge good sand dwellers. If you keep the tank healthy and the nassarius happy they will lay eggs on the glass and when the eggs hatch its free food for the corals. Free is always a plus. Just my opinion though. I have found shrimps to be bad because they will steal food from your corals especially cleaners. Which will stress and starve your coral. Keep good feeding techniques like rinsing food with ro water to decrease as many phosphates entering the tank. Also have a plan for reducing phosphates like a phosban reactor. IMO they are very cheap to buy and operate/maintain and it will go a long way with decreasing algae blooms or build up. Stay on your water changes and be consistent with testing. As your number of frags increase and decrease so will your demand for adding nutrients ie ca. To me it is almost worth it to have ca and other monitors in place. Yeah it costs more in the beg but in the long run it will be cheaper and you will be better prepared IMO to adjust nutrient additions. Also a par meter will go a long way. It will help you place corals in the right areas of your tank not to mention the exact placement of your lights above the tank. I have a custom built 8 x t5 light that is 36" x 30" and it is mounted a single bent galvenized pipe. The cabling is adjustable so that I can raise or lower the height of the light, but it does not matter if I cant tell the par level of where my corals placement. I could guess how intense that area is but it would help to know the par level and If I change coral that I am propping then I can adjust the light height to better accomodate said corals needs. I know this might sound like a lot but IMO the more info you have the better your chance of success is.

[SaltSolutions1]

IMO I would stay away from the crabs as well. Heck if your water flow is great, I mean great no dead spots no areas for detritus to build up i would even consider not having any clean up crews other then maybe a six line wrasse. But that idea is really hard to achieve. So IMO stay with the snails that have smaller shells. Snails are notorious for knocking over frags. No turbos, astraea, or any big shell snail. Small ceriths, nassarius, nerites, money cowries, and possibly even a bumble bee ( maybe only one or two of these). I really like the nassarius over the bumble bee but the bee is so small and does a great job, IMO should only be put in a BB tank though- they will scavenge good sand dwellers. If you keep the tank healthy and the nassarius happy they will lay eggs on the glass and when the eggs hatch its free food for the corals. Free is always a plus. Just my opinion though. I have found shrimps to be bad because they will steal food from your corals especially cleaners. Which will stress and starve your coral. Keep good feeding techniques like rinsing food with ro water to decrease as many phosphates entering the tank. Also have a plan for reducing phosphates like a phosban reactor. IMO they are very cheap to buy and operate/maintain and it will go a long way with decreasing algae blooms or build up. Stay on your water changes and be consistent with testing. As your number of frags increase and decrease so will your demand for adding nutrients ie ca. To me it is almost worth it to have ca and other monitors in place. Yeah it costs more in the beg but in the long run it will be cheaper and you will be better prepared IMO to adjust nutrient additions. Also a par meter will go a long way. It will help you place corals in the right areas of your tank not to mention the exact placement of your lights above the tank. I have a custom built 8 x t5 light that is 36" x 30" and it is mounted a single bent galvenized pipe. The cabling is adjustable so that I can raise or lower the height of the light, but it does not matter if I cant tell the par level of where my corals placement. I could guess how intense that area is but it would help to know the par level and If I change coral that I am propping then I can adjust the light height to better accomodate said corals needs. I know this might sound like a lot but IMO the more info you have the better your chance of success is.

Thank you very much for your detailed response. Here are a few pics of the setup and some corals.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/mlesmes/180greef066.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/mlesmes/180greef059.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/mlesmes/180greef068.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/mlesmes/180greef057.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/mlesmes/180greef056.jpg

[1DeR9_3Hy]

Nice, how long has it been setup now?

[SaltSolutions1]

for 2 months

[madean]

i like your setup and love the clowns

[SaltSolutions1]

i like your setup and love the clowns

Thank you.