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Airborne
10/03/2009, 11:07 PM
I returned my Reeflo Super Dart Gold Pump per your recommendations. Please help with final planning so that I can hire an installer. My tank is a 120g 48x24x24 with a 2" bulkhead for the drain and 3/4" returns. My choices for installation are:

1) Sump under stand. Buy a ATB 1500 Flowstar pump(1500gph). Buy a 1/3hp chiller, place next to stand. All inside the house.

2) Sump in garage. Possibly return the sump for a 60 gal sump. Tank on other side of wall. Buy a ATB Flow Start or (2). Or buy one pump like a Iwaki 40 or 50 or the Reeflo Snapper or Dart and drill the sump. Chiller also in garage. Only the tank inside the house.

My concern was the temperature difference between the sump and the display tank due to the garage being hotter in the summer and colder in the winter. Also, will there be more maintenance and or problems with an external pump vs. internal.

Need to know what problems I may have both ways.

Once the tally is in, I will finish oerding my equipment and hopefully get someone out here this next weekend.

Thanks.

lordofthereef
10/04/2009, 12:15 AM
Keeping the chiller in the garage will be rough in the summer because it will have a harder time venting its heat due to the high ambient temps around it. Many people have posted that they have issues with that. There is generally much greater success putting the sump in the basement, thought I know they don't generally build houses with basements in Cali.

billdogg
10/04/2009, 05:45 AM
I guess I've missed the rest of this thread - why, if you are just setting up, do you think you'll need a chiller? The easiest way will be to put the sump under tank. If it then turns out you do need a chiller, putting it in the same room means you'll have to fight high temps in there to combat the chiller exhaust. you could then put it out in the garage if you had to. That would be my choice. BTW - I run a dart on my 150 - why did you return it? If it was for too much flow through the sump - how about a closed loop? Very simple to set up and a great way to rid the tank of powerheads, IMO.

As far as the internal/external pump - I prefer external pumps because of the almost complete lack of heat transfer to the tank. If you decide to go internal, my first (and only) choice would be a eheim, for your tank the 1262.

JM.02

Airborne
10/04/2009, 11:02 AM
Can you show me via a diagram of what exactly a clsoed loop system looks like. I keep haering of a closed loop but do not knoe wha that is.
I had a small 34gal red sea max before, and I had to have a chiller on that tank due to the high ambient temperatures in the house.

So I moved to a town that is even 10 degrees hotter. I know I will need a chiller. Maybe not right now due to winter months but by nect May/June I will be in trouble. It gets about 105-106 and the temp inside the house gets about 86-88.

Thanks

Playa-1
10/04/2009, 11:40 AM
I doubt you need or want that much flow thru the sump for one.

I would use the 2" drain and the 3/4" returns for a closed loop circulation system. Then I would install a separate 1" drain for the sump with an overflow box. I would run one pump on a closed loop for circulation and a separate pump for the return pump. I would likely run the eheim1262 as an internal return pump and then find a suitable external pump to run the closed loop. There is no reason to drill the sump. Then run the return line for the sump over the back of the tank leaving the outlet close to the surface to act as your siphon break.

Another option is to use the 2" drain to feed the sump. Plug the 3/4" return holes that are drilled in the back of the tank. Then use the eheim1262 for the internal return pump. Reroute the return line over the back of the tank. Then use powerheads in the DT for circulation. The holes that are drilled in the back of the tank are for closed loop. They are not going to be useful if you don't set up a closed loop. The benefit of the closed loop is you don't have as much equipment in the DT. The con of the closed loop is you don't have as many options as you do with using powerheads. The biggest problem with closed loop in California is the Electricity to run the extra pump. The powerheads use nothing compared to the big closed loop pump.

If it were mine, I would put the sump in the garage. I would get the biggest sump that you can. I would put the chiller in the garage and run a controller. The controller would be set up to control lighting, fans, heaters, chillers and also monitor ph, conductivity, water level, temp and ORP.

I would set it up so that the heaters operate on their own thermostat. The controller would be set to kill the power to the heaters at 80 degrees. I would use multiple heaters. In your case one in the DT and one in the Sump set at 1 degree apart. Say 76 and 77 degrees respectively. I would set the controller up to turn the fans on at 80 degrees, kill the power to the lighting at 85 degrees and then turn the chiller on at 86 degrees. In this case the heaters use their own thermostat and the controllers act as a failsafe to keep the tank from overheating. Multiple heaters protects the DT if the return pump were to fail for some reason and provides heat if one heater were to fail in the off position. Then have a fans set up over the sump and the DT. The controller is programed to turn the fans on and off at certain temps. The chiller is set up for emergencies only and would likely never come on in this scenario. I didn't even plug my chiller in this year. This year The controller killed the power to my lights a couple of times late in the afternoon. We rarely turn our A/C on for the house for two reasons. Number one we rarely need it and number two it's expensive to operate. It's usually windows open and a fan. When the A/C is on in the house there is no problems at all.

In SoCal along the coast we don't get the extreme temp swings like they do in other parts of the Country. You're garage will be hotter in the summer and cooler in the winter but that water is moving. It just means that your system will run a little cooler in the winter and a little warmer in the summer time. You can do things that can manipulate the temp without going to the extreme of a chiller. For example a fan across the sump will do wonders in the summer time for cooling the system down. I would suggest that a fan or two be installed and controlled by the controller that I also recommend. The controller turns the fan or fans on and off at preprogrammed temps. The chillers are expensive to run and a couple of well placed quality fans will usually get the job done without the chiller ever kicking in.

Other reasons to have the Sump in the garage are to keep the excess noise from the pump and skimmer somewhere else. By having a large sump in the garage you get much easier access and the extra water volume provides for a more stable system. Other considerations are If you have the chiller in the house they put out heat and noise. They sounds like a window A/C and chill the tank while blowing warm air into the room. If money is no object then you would be better off just turning down the thermostat on the central A/C a bit. The sump in the garage would likely help a bit with excess humidity in the house too. The sump in the garage would give you more options for many things.

Playa-1
10/04/2009, 11:49 AM
Can you show me via a diagram of what exactly a clsoed loop system looks like. I keep haering of a closed loop but do not knoe wha that is.
I had a small 34gal red sea max before, and I had to have a chiller on that tank due to the high ambient temperatures in the house.

So I moved to a town that is even 10 degrees hotter. I know I will need a chiller. Maybe not right now due to winter months but by nect May/June I will be in trouble. It gets about 105-106 and the temp inside the house gets about 86-88.

Thanks

You can get lots of diagrams by doing a google search. But close your eyes and invision this. A 2" drain line that goes directly to the inlet of a large external pump. Then the outlet of the pump is split 4 ways with a plumbing manifold and goes directly to the four holes drilled in the back of the tank. It's just water draining from the tank to a high volume pump and pumping right back into the tank.

The sump is a different animal and should be plumbed independently.