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GPhiAce
10/04/2009, 06:30 PM
So for those that dose (vodka, mb7, AAs, Vit C, etc) do you dose you water change water to maintain the levels in your tank?? Just a question. I have not seen anyone post if they do or don't.

sedor
10/04/2009, 06:36 PM
It depends what type of salt you are using. Most reef salts you won't have to add anything, but if you use a regular salt like say Instant Ocean you would want to test the water and dose to match your tank. For people like me who use Reef Crystals some of the parameters are higher than my tank, for instance I keep my tank at about 8.6 dkh and RC is about 11. This can be undesirable, but not really a big deal for me, I just don't dose Alk for a day or two afterwards.

bertoni
10/04/2009, 06:44 PM
I wouldn't dose water for changes with carbon sources other than perhaps adding the normal daily dose that way. The same goes for the amino acids. Supplements like calcium and magnesium won't be needed unless the salt mix doesn't match the tank.

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/05/2009, 04:44 AM
I perform water changes (1% daily) to maintain the many things that I do not otherwise supplement or test for, as detailed here:

Water Changes in Reef Aquaria
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php

DeathWish302
10/05/2009, 09:20 AM
I perform water changes (1% daily) to maintain the many things that I do not otherwise supplement or test for, as detailed here:

Water Changes in Reef Aquaria
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php

+1

I adopted Randy's methodology on reefkeeping about 2 years ago with good results. I perform a 1% WC daily and I test my water about every 2 weeks. I know Randy hasn't tested water in years, but I prefer the reassurance by a test. I have maintained my levels w/o fluctuation for the last 18 months. When/if I add MB7, I dose to the tank and never to WC solution.

t5Nitro
10/05/2009, 04:52 PM
Can either of you elaborate on this method? Are you just doing a manual method of having premixed saltwater and grabbing a gallon a day and replacing it or is it automated somehow?

Would either of you like to elaborate please? I think this would be great. There are a lot of public aquariums that use this method of daily water changes and I'd like to set something up to do so. Only downfall is you need to test the new mixed water nonstop to make sure the Ca/Alk is correct?

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/05/2009, 05:09 PM
Here's a copy and paste from an earlier thread:

If you want to automate the water change, you can make changes with no level change in the aquarium. Just get a dual head pump and add water at the same time you are removing it. I do that with a Reef Filler, but a dual peristaltic pump works well too. Mine runs on a timer, so it does it when the time is on, whether I'm at work, sleeping, etc.

One big advantage of this type of system, aside from it taking no actual work to do it, is that you need not match salinity, temperature, or anything else since it is swapped in so slowly.


This has more on how that type of water change compares in efficiency to batch type water changes:


Water Changes in Reef Aquaria
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php

Billybeau1
10/05/2009, 05:15 PM
I can not speak for DW, but Randy's is automated. He would have to tell you how it is set up.

As far as checking the newly mixed salt water, once you know what the salt mix yields in the way of calcium and magnesium, you can mix it in before dosing if needed.

As far as alk, if you know what your tank is, know its consumption rate, you can adjust that as necessary.

If I remember correctly, Randy does not worry about alkalinity much because he uses Instant Ocean which already has a dkh of 12-13 or so and the automated water changes keep his alkalinity level constant. I suspect if he did test for alkalinity (which he doesn't), he would find it somewhere around 10 dkh.

Billybeau1
10/05/2009, 05:17 PM
Sheesh Randy, don't sneak up on me like that. :lol:

t5Nitro
10/05/2009, 05:35 PM
So if trying to keep alk at 7 to 8 dKh, changing 1 gallon per day on 100 net gallons is not a problem? Reef crystals has around 11-13 dKh.

Otherwise it's as easy as buying 2 of the lowest gph maxijets and buy 2 tubes for them. Turn the pump on to drain a gallon and another to fill another gallon?

Seems easy enough. This is more manual but it is less likely something fails.

Not to put the thread too much off course. :) I just saw the idea of constant WC's and thought it was a neat idea. Right now, lugging pales of saltwater upstairs, using a siphon and lugging those pales across the house again is annoying.

SWINGRRRR
10/05/2009, 05:40 PM
Just gotta to remember to empty your drain jug if you don't have a floor drain nearby. :(


Edit: Can I ask what about just a pump to drain and let the ATO kick in an top off that gallon? I top off with Kalk via a GEO RX. I was just think of a way to set-up a system, but thought "Hey why not use your Kalk? If I'm only changing 50 ml at a time, that a very small amount to top off. Of course I would have to add to my FW reservoir more often, but that's a lot easier then adding a whole nother tank and pump.

t5Nitro
10/05/2009, 05:42 PM
I wouldn't have it automated on a timer like Randy does. Too complicated of a system that if it decides to not operate properly you might have issues. :p

Instead of lugging lots of water weekly, I'd rather go downstairs, fill up a gallon jug of fresh SW, come upstairs, use a maxijet + hose and fill and empty gallon jug and then dump the new water in. Simple and fast and no chance for error. Aside from dKH may be a problem.

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/05/2009, 07:12 PM
So if trying to keep alk at 7 to 8 dKh, changing 1 gallon per day on 100 net gallons is not a problem? Reef crystals has around 11-13 dKh.

Water changes won't maintain alkalinity in most reef systems. I show that in the article. :)

SWINGRRRR
10/05/2009, 07:51 PM
Can I ask what about just a pump to drain and let the ATO kick in an top off that gallon? I top off with Kalk via a GEO RX. I was just think of a way to set-up a system, but thought "Hey why not use your Kalk? If I'm only changing 50 ml at a time, that a very small amount to top off. Of course I would have to add to my FW reservoir more often, but that's a lot easier then adding a whole nother tank and pump.


Randy, any input on this? Using Kalk and ATO to refill the gallon that will be drained over a 24 hour period?

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/06/2009, 04:33 AM
A pump to drain? Replacing tank water with limewater?

SWINGRRRR
10/06/2009, 04:54 AM
Never mind. Now that Ive had some sleep, I realize that my top off with Kalk is FW. Using this to replace tank water that is changed daily will slowly drive my SG down.

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/06/2009, 05:12 AM
:thumbsup:

Happy Reefing. :)

DeathWish302
10/06/2009, 07:43 AM
So if trying to keep alk at 7 to 8 dKh, changing 1 gallon per day on 100 net gallons is not a problem? Reef crystals has around 11-13 dKh.

Otherwise it's as easy as buying 2 of the lowest gph maxijets and buy 2 tubes for them. Turn the pump on to drain a gallon and another to fill another gallon?

Seems easy enough. This is more manual but it is less likely something fails.

Not to put the thread too much off course. :) I just saw the idea of constant WC's and thought it was a neat idea. Right now, lugging pales of saltwater upstairs, using a siphon and lugging those pales across the house again is annoying.

I change 1% (0.5gal) every day when I get home from work. I have a 5gallon bucket near the aquarium with fresh SW. I turn off my ATO (it has a wired on/off switch) and pull the 0.5gal from the aquarium into a pitcher. The fresh SW is then poured into the aquarium.

In perfroming this method of WC, I have had no effects of pH, alk, Ca & Mg. I never test these parameters. The only thing I'm concerned about is salinity. I mix up 32gal at a time and once I get the salinity correct, I never check it again until this water is gone. My daily additions of DIY 3-Part solution make up for any differences in the WC. My parameters have been rock solid and only shift when I change my dosing amounts.

As for the automated system, 2 aqualifters could be used for this. The only problem I have is the sump is no close to a drain, so manual changes are not too much of a pain. I can do a WC, feed, wipe the glass & clean the turf scrubber or skimmer cup (every few days for either) in about 20min.

LPS_Blasto
10/06/2009, 08:03 AM
This sounds complicated to me. Maybe I'm just old fashioned.......... or stupid?

I change a little water every week for each tank. So I guess I'm in the "small changes weekly" club. I keep a 30g trash can full of NSW all the time. I use a siphon to remove a predetermined amount of water from each tank. I have several tanks ranging in size from 30g up to 240g. Then I use a 1g pitcher and dip into the NSW trash can. Run around and fill each tank back up to the correct level. I maintain about 500g of water this way.

When I'm done filling the tanks, I plug in my RO/DI unit and fill the trash can again. Dump in an approximate amount of salt and let it mix for a day or two. Check salinity and make a couple small adjustments throughout the week. Next weekend I am ready to do water changes again.

Nuthin' fancy, but it gets the job done.

t5Nitro
10/06/2009, 12:41 PM
I like the idea of just storing the water in a big tub. Does it need to be consistently moved with a power head or can it sit after being mixed for 2-3 days?

Doing 1 gallon a day would be cake. Mark the 1 gallon line inside a pale and go. :)

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/06/2009, 12:44 PM
New salt water, at least types without vitamins, can sit as long as you want unstirred. Weeks is fine.

DeathWish302
10/06/2009, 12:52 PM
My NSW sits in the 32gal trash can for ~2months. The one thing you need to watch is mold growth in the container. In the summer I get a musty smell in the container by the time I get near the bottom. I just mix less when the temp where the container resides is higher than 75-80F. The higher the temp the sooner the musty smell comes around.

t5Nitro
10/06/2009, 01:00 PM
Nice. This is what I'm going to do as well then. 1% daily.

EasyEd77
10/06/2009, 02:29 PM
I have a 14 gallon biocube and am very interested in trying this method. Is it necessary to replace the water and fill it at the same time? Wouldn't it be just as effective if I removed 16 ounces of water with a measuring cup and poured 16 ounces of SW back in daily?

t5Nitro
10/06/2009, 02:48 PM
That would be the same thing. I think Randy just has it automated so it drains and fills at the same time. That's how I'm going to do 1 gallon per day is pump 1 gallon out (into pale with 1 gallon line marked) and then take a gallon out of the tote I have new saltwater in and fill it back. :bounce3: