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der_wille_zur_macht
10/05/2009, 12:13 PM
Has anyone 'scoped the output from a Tunze controller?

I'm guessing it's a PWM signal, but would like to verify that, and know the frequency.

I know that several people have built DIY controllers for Tunze-based waveboxes, but from what I've seen in those threads, it's just turning the pump all the way on, then all the way off, every X seconds or so. I want real variable speed control.

And for the record, I don't have a controller to reverse-engineer myself, unfortunately. . .

BayAreaReefer
10/05/2009, 10:45 PM
Yeah! I'd be interested seeing those schematics as well. I have a 6100 on my 125g and its way too much power on full blast. I'm surrently using a 7091 but wanting that awesome wave like the wavebox.

Please keep us updated.

der_wille_zur_macht
10/06/2009, 11:30 AM
I will certainly keep folks updated, but I need someone with a Tunze-compatible controller and the appropriate tools to do the research for me first. :lol:

Surely it's barely been a day, but I'm surprised there isn't an answer yet - I had always assumed that this sort of information was just floating around for these controllers.

guitar8222
10/06/2009, 03:01 PM
Not sure if you can reference other boards on here, but on our local board (I'm from nj) we started working off of tunze controller that was done on here. It's under the DIY section and titled Wavemaker.

It is most of the way done, but no one has gone as far as producing a printed board yet. I am sure it could be adapted to reduce the power down versus off with a little work. The pin out info is in the threads too.

mabviper
10/06/2009, 06:53 PM
From what I remember, the Tunze has it's own motor driver. The motor driver receives signal from the controller. Most I've seen is a frequency ON-OFF controller for the DC tunze, done w/ a 555 timer. If you want real variable control, you need to vary the DC level at the control pin. I don't know the controller's operating voltages but say it's 5V @ 100% and 0V @ 0% speed, 2.5V at the control pin would give you 50% speed.

Take a look at 555 timer circuits in astable mode to vary duty cycle for DC control. The PWM frequency doesn't matter, it just has to be fast enough so you don't notice the motor turning on and off.
http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/555timer.htm

der_wille_zur_macht
10/07/2009, 07:20 AM
guitar, do you have a link to that thread? I'd love to see it. Maybe I should have clarified this above, but I'm not planning on building a standalone controller, but rather an extension to the DIY reef controller I'm building, so I can control the pump from the same software that's running the rest of the tank. However I'm guessing there's info in that thread that would be really handy.

mabviper, you're correct - the driver comes with the pump, and just gets a signal from the controller. I've got the flexibility to match whatever the off-the-shelf controller is doing, so I'd like to actually do that - I'm just not sure if it is doing a variable (analog) DC signal, or PWM, or something else, etc. Perhaps it's debatable that a high frequency 5v PWM signal at 50% duty cycle is equivalent to a straight 2.5v signal, but I'd rather know for sure than shoot in the dark until it works - especially since we're sending a signal to a driver that's expecting a specific format. If we were directly driving the DC pump, that might be a different story.

MichiP
10/07/2009, 07:43 AM
did you see this schematic for a d.i.y. wavebox controller?
should be what you're looking for.

http://ealex.aqua-web.org/wavebox/circuit.htm

der_wille_zur_macht
10/07/2009, 07:57 AM
Thanks - I haven't seen that website, but it's not exactly what I'm looking for - it just turns the pump on/off on a set frequency, while I want more precise control over speed (i.e. oscillate between 20% on and 60% on, with random spikes to 100% on, during the day, and something else at night). I can write the software, I just need to know what sort of signal I have to provide to the driver.

Still that'll be helpful, since it has info on the pinouts for the connector, etc. Plus, it looks like he's oscillating two additional Tunzes between 20% and 100% by feeding them a lower voltage (through a resistor) when the signal from the 555 is "off". Hmmm, interesting. . .

MichiP
10/07/2009, 08:08 AM
some postings in a german forum ( matuta.com - cant find the link anymore ) plus this page:
http://www.sl-aquaristik.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=1
state that this is a 0-8 volt interface that the tunzes accept.

so all you've got to do is convert your pwm signal with some "resistor capacitor" or some other DA thing to a 0-8v signal and feed your tunze with it.

der_wille_zur_macht
10/07/2009, 08:14 AM
MichiP, yeah, I kind of noticed that halfway through writing my post above (hence the sentence at the end and the "Hmm interesting. . .") - I should probably go back and edit it. :D When I first saw that schematic, I assumed it was just the simple on/off oscillator that people on here often use for DIY waveboxes.

That definitely answers the question - it appears that the control signal is analog 0 - 8v DC. And the driver supplies an 8v signal, so all I have to do is chop it up with a transistor driven by a PWM signal from my controller, then smooth it with an RC filter.

Time to dig out a breadboard. . . :D

MichiP
10/07/2009, 08:18 AM
i've edited my post above anyways. since its also a different schematic than i head in mind when writing :D

just follow the link i've posted. maybe this helps a little even if its in german. he uses some DA board to convert the signal to 0-10volts. and by changing one resistor he came to a range of 0-8volts.

mabviper
10/07/2009, 09:26 AM
Oh hey, I totally forgot. Controlling a DC tunze is as simple as controlling a pc fan. If the driver can accept analog voltages, a simple adjustable voltage divider is enough to control it.

stugray
10/07/2009, 12:12 PM
der_wille_zur_macht,

Are you wanting to remove the Tunze driver altogether or just stimulate the variable speed input to the controller with your controller?

I have built PWM speed controls for fans & LEDs so I could help either way.

Once you have built a PWM driver circuit you could either drive the Tunze input with it directly ( very low current draw ) or drive a MOSFET & a power supply, and you can remove the tunze driver all together.


Question: Ive never played with a tunze.... do they go in forward & reverse?
If they don't now, it would be easy to make it do so.

Stu

der_wille_zur_macht
10/07/2009, 12:38 PM
stu,

So far, I've assumed I would use the Tunze driver, and control it with a signal I generate. I'm using the Arduino platform for my controller, so I've got easily PWM output, but it's at 5V. So I need to convert that to 8v, and filter it smooth.

Since it appears that the Tunze driver provides +8v and GND to the Tunze controller, I would assume I can use the PWM signal from my controller to turn a transistor on and off, with the transistor between +8v and the control pin for the driver, and a resistor-capacitor filter in series to smooth it. Does that sound reasonable?

I don't know enough about the Tunze circuitry to know how easy it would be to do away with their driver. I understand the basic theory of a motor driver for DC, though, so I'd imagine it wouldn't be a big jump. Still, I'm assuming that the Tunze driver does an OK job as long as it's fed a "good" control signal, so I figure why replace it? Though, having a reversible pump would be interesting.

Clearly I'm rambling here, any thoughts appreciated. . . :D

MichiP
10/07/2009, 12:58 PM
@der_wille_zur_macht:
sounds good to me. but i'm no electronic pro. i'm better at programming and only have very basic electronic knowledge.

i would keep the driver since they're doing very well and don't make any problems. just feed the pump with a proper signal and it should work properly.

guitar8222
10/07/2009, 01:17 PM
Here are the two links to our discussion. You should be able to get what you need from it.

http://www.njreefers.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=13714.0

http://www.njreefers.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=17856.0

laverda
10/08/2009, 02:08 AM
I think you will fond what you need in this thread, half way down the first page. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1411393&highlight=wavebox

dr_fish
04/01/2012, 08:13 AM
@der_wille_zur_macht

i was wondering whether you succeeded with your plan to control the tunze from the arduino pwn signal? Could you maybe share the circuit you came up with?

I would like to do the same as I have an arduino here - but not sure how to control the 0-8V signal from the arduino 0-5V output signal.

Thanks for a short reply.

Nik

der_wille_zur_macht
04/03/2012, 08:03 AM
I gave up and instead went with a closed loop powered by an external pump run on a VFD to get variable flow in my system.

However I don't expect this would be very challenging to figure out. You could provide an 8v source (there is one on the Tunze cabling iirc) and switch it with a transistor driven by the Arduino's PWM signal.

dr_fish
04/07/2012, 12:02 PM
Thanks for the reply! Yep, I will try as you suggested, with a transistor using the voltage supplied by the tunze driver. Need to organize one of these DIN5 plugs first though :fun4:

biecacka
04/07/2012, 06:42 PM
Der I have an old Tunze controller 7094 I think that no longer works, I'd be interested in letting you play w it....
Corey

Bezz
04/17/2012, 12:11 AM
I ordered this - http://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/330682492640?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_2872wt_1119

Since I can connect any DC 12-24V to a tunze controllable pump, I'll feed the arduino PWM signal to this board to control the tunze pump.

Hope it works...

dr_fish
04/17/2012, 12:45 PM
Hi Bezz,

Which tunze pump do you have? I have checked the link you mentioned, but it states "not less than 12V" :hmm5: ??

I believe my tunze driver runs on 0-8V

By the way, I managed to control the pump in an on and off fashion (i.e. it turns on every 3 secs and then turns off for 3 secs) with the arduino, a MOSFET and a diode

To use the PWM pin of the arduino and to regulate the output voltage I believe that a "low pass filter" consisting of resistor and capacitor in front of the MOSFET are required. At least this is what I understood from this source: arduino analog write convert PWM to voltage (http://provideyourown.com/2011/analogwrite-convert-pwm-to-voltage/)

As a next step I will include a Potentiometer in my circuit so that I can make the on and off time variable and find out the "eigenfrequency" off my tank :uhoh3:

If you like, I can post my circuit as is here

Bezz
04/17/2012, 07:51 PM
Hi dr_fish,

Nice DIY you have there. I would really be interested if you could get this to ramp up and down smoothly, good luck :)

As for the ebay board, I was thinking of using it to supply power to my Tunze 6055. This will replace the crappy Tunze power supply which I had to replace once already. I figured the Tunze 6055 is a DC motor and just supply the power to run it high or low.

The arduino code I will run it on is this:


void loop()
{
int x = 1;
for (int i = 0; i > -1; i = i + x){
analogWrite(PWMpin, i);
if (i == 255) x = -1; // switch direction at peak
delay(10);
}
}


I hope this works

jamesbm1001
04/20/2013, 06:23 AM
just out of curiosity did it work? I know it's been a year but I figure that someone has to have had some success by now. From the last post it sounds like you were going to be doing away with the OEM 5 pin connector which the power supply plugs into and just wiring right into the microprocessor you purchased, did I understand this correctly?