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dement
10/09/2009, 08:08 AM
I've been asked to help with 4000 l (about 1050 gal.) FO aquarium which is running about 1 year. There is a huge red slime algae and cyano bacteria bloom there.
After testing water parameters I have found that NO3 level is over 100 mg / l ( > 100 ppm). PO4 is undetectable.
Reason of this fact seems clear because there is undersized home-made skimmer and tank is probably overfeeded. Undetectable PO4 level can be explained I think easily. There is a home-made uncontrolled Ca reactor wich can produce enough Ca+ ions to reduce level of PO4.

I put another one skimmer to the system and it started produce dark skimate immediately. And now my dilema is: can I start vodka dosing if there is so high NO3 level but undetectable PO4? Will vodka dosing support bacteria grow to reduce NO3 if there is undetectable PO4?

Thanks for your ideas and support.

jtrasap
10/09/2009, 08:32 AM
What skimmer are you running now? If you start dosing vodka in a 1000+ gallon tank with high nitrates, you're going to need a monster skimmer.

When I started dosing vodka, I was having to empty my skimmer cup 2-3 times a day, and I had a fairly large skimmer. My new skimmer has a much larger cup, so I only have to empty it once a day but it's pulling some nasty stuff out.

I also had undetectable po4 and 100+ no3. Vodka has helped me reduce my no3 to below 20 ppm now and I am adding a larger refuge to the system to add more Cheato and ween my system off of the vodka.

A lot of people seem to be having success with the VSV(vodka sugar vinegar) method. You might want to look into it.

Weigh the pros/cons. Read through some of the dosing threads and see what you think. There are some people having great results with vodka, and others with negative results.

tmz
10/09/2009, 08:45 AM
Ethanol (vodka) or other carbon sources may not have a very fast effect on NO3. Heavy skimming is needed when dosing any organic carbon.A sulfur , coil ,or carbon reactor are alternatives to consider.

dement
10/09/2009, 08:49 AM
hello jtrasap
thanks for response. There will be no problem with skimmer, it's possible to drill it and put a tube inside to allow skimate flow out of the cup.
What I was asking is if it's possible to use this method when there is high NO3 level an unmesurable PO4. I have read many articles and all of them are talking about decreasing NO3 and PO4 level (both). Now thanks to your response I know, that it's possible and I can go for it. Also I'll propose to reduce feeding and hopefully this will help. The new one skimmer is ATI BM250 and if it will appears insufficient there is enough space in the sump to add some more.
Thanks once more.
Martin

dement
10/09/2009, 08:52 AM
Tom, thanks for answer I already started reactor filled with carbon to reduce DOM (DOC?).
Carbon will be changed every 2nd-3rd day.
Sulfur seems very dangerous for me... I hope vodka + skimmer + carbon will help.

tmz
10/09/2009, 10:47 AM
Martin ,
There should still be enough phosphate around if you are feeding the tank even with undetectable PO4 levels.
Your question relates to the bacteria's need for carbon, nitrogen and phosphorous( ratios are variable but generaly in the neighborhood of 116 parts carbon to 16 parts nitrogen to 1 part phosphorous). The absence of anyone of these will limit bacterial activity. The reason for dosing vodka as a carbon source in an assumption that the bacteria in the tank are limited by a lack or organic carbon relative to the amount PO4 and NO3. They could be limited by a lack of nitrogen or phosphorous but in a fed tank this is very unlikely.

mm949
10/09/2009, 11:49 AM
one tablespoon of plain white sugar will get those nitrates down in less than a week w/daily dosing

HighlandReefer
10/09/2009, 02:51 PM
Sugar can be quite potent and overdosed more easily than vodka.

I would follow Genetics recommendations for anyone interested in dosing sugar: 1/4 teaspoon sugar per 100 gallons water volume, every other day until your nitrates drop to zero. After that 1/16 teaspoon every other day for a maintenance dose, which can be adjusted as necessary. ;)

lordofthereef
10/09/2009, 03:39 PM
When I started dosing vodka, I was having to empty my skimmer cup 2-3 times a day, and I had a fairly large skimmer.

You can always add a reservoir for your skimmate by drilling a hole and adding tubing to your skimmer cup. I have seen some tanks with a 5 gallon sparklets jug holding the skimmate so that it doesn't need to be emptied as frequently.

jtrasap
10/09/2009, 04:18 PM
You can always add a reservoir for your skimmate by drilling a hole and adding tubing to your skimmer cup. I have seen some tanks with a 5 gallon sparklets jug holding the skimmate so that it doesn't need to be emptied as frequently.

Yes, on my old ETSS skimmer, I had a drain tube ran to an external reservoir, but that was long before I started dosing vodka. I have since upgraded skimmers twice, and neither have had drain tubes, but I may mod this one with a drain. Regardless, even when I skim fairly wet, I still get loads of nasty bubbles which would not make it into the drain tube and would require being emptied.

dement
10/12/2009, 04:19 AM
Hello guys
thank to you all for responses. It seems Vodka dosing is possible for this tank although there is undetectable PO4 ( as tmz wrote undetctable doesn't mean unexisting :idea: ). I hope I'll be able to inform you in a short time there is also "ubdetectable" level of NO3.
Thanks,
Martin