10" bristle worm what would you do?

[adambirk]

hello well as the title says tonight i found a huge bristle worm in my tank. i had just switched everything from my 90 over to my 150 and as expected i had a few snails and couple sps die. anyway my rock and livestock came from my 90 and in 2 years i only ever saw 1 bristle worm in that tank. tried to catch it but couldnt.

so i see this huge bristle worm eating this dead snail. which is great but then i wondered if i should get this out of the tank. i can see were the worm is coming out of the rock and were the snail is is 10" away so this worm is at least 10" probably bigger cause his body is still in the rock.

now i know they can be good for clean up and since i have only seen one in two years in my tank(and always watch it at night with a light too) i know i must not have a whole lot. i always keep my tanks clean.

so what do you think? leave him in there or take out the rock he is in and freshwater dip it so he comes out? i am torn here. also i dont think i will be putting my hands back in the tank without gloves now. never had bristle worm bristles in me before but i have heard the storys and this one is huge.

[ludnix]

I don't see why you should remove it. You should be wearing gloves anyways so it sounds like he's doing you a favor.

They are not that bad to get stung by, it's like the little hairs on a cactus, they can be pulled out easily. A small one will be just as much a risk as a big one too, so just wear gloves when handling rocks or getting your hands wet.

[lougotzz]

IDK, its big, but id prolly let it be. Bristle worms are the only things in reefing that really freak me out. Them and octopus' lol

[little_mermaid]

I would remove it because it is bad for the tank when they get to big for the tank. Atleast thats what I have been told by serveral people in pet stores.

[Peter Eichler]

I would remove it because it is bad for the tank when they get to big for the tank. Atleast thats what I have been told by serveral people in pet stores.

Those people are wrong, large bristleworms are just as harmless as small ones.

[ludnix]

I would remove it because it is bad for the tank when they get to big for the tank. Atleast thats what I have been told by serveral people in pet stores.

Most LFS sell bristleworm traps so it's in their best interest to convince you that they are bad.

[adambirk]

yeah, they creep me out too. been doing it for years and never wore gloves. just swiched all my rock (150ish pounds) from my old set up to this one last week and didnt use gloves and played with the rock for days to get it right. man gives me the willies thinking that i might have almost touched that nasty sucker. hahaha


Ludnix not many cactus out here in michigan but i can imagine:-) also the montie frags i got from you a while back are doing great. they bleached a little from the switch over in tanks a week ago but they should rebound.

[adambirk]

yeah i will probably just leave him in there. and like i said i know they are good cleaners and get a bad wrap. but let me tell ya they are some ugly suckers when they are that big. but like i said this is only the second one i have seen so i am not so concerned.

just makes you wonder how somthing like that stays hidden for years expecially when i look at my tank as much as i do. at least he is taking care of the dead snail.

oh and i will be getting a pair of gloves tomarrow after work:-)

[ludnix]

Glad your frags are doing good. We don't have any cacti here either but they sell them in nurseries a lot. The bristles are very fine so you barely notice when they are in you, it's like a very minor splinter, but luckily it doesn't go very deep at all.

You should wear gloves not because of bristle worms but rather for risk of bacterial infection. There are a number of users on here who have experiences a bacterial infection from getting their tank water in small cuts on their hands.

I wouldn't expect you to wear gloves every single time you touch the tank's water, but if you notice and cuts on your hands you should glove-up, or if you're planning on moving liverock or doing something that could result in you getting a cut underwater.

[bubbly]

I would trap it out. I think one of the common traps is some scallop in a nylon stocking or you can build a trap out of a plastic jar with some "flaps" cut so that it can get in but can't get out.

Small bristle worms are an excellent part of your clean up crew, but the problem is that when they get large, they start realizing that they can "make their own food" rather than scavenge. That's when you start having problems.

I know a local reefer who had a large bristleworm take an eye off one of his fish (it was at night, and he saw it and got the worm off the fish, and the fish live for a few more years with only one eye). I had a large bristle worm take out a peppermint -- the bristle was large enough to play "tug of war" with the pepp and win when I fed pieces of scallop to the shrimp. I saw the bristle roaming the tank for food when I didn't feed it for a few days, then the shrimp molted and I saw the shrimp jammed in the hole at the top of the cave where he hung out (and where the bristle worm lived) -- I know the bristle ate him because he was newly molted and soft because the shrimp was jammed in a hole at the top of the cave rather than at the bottom (where he would have ended up if he had actually died first).

I wouldn't freak out or worry, but if you have had some "mysterious" disappearances or deaths I would make a diy trap and remove at least one of the possible suspects.

[robs.mark]

Those people are wrong, large bristleworms are just as harmless as small ones.

+1 always better to give advise from your own experiences imo.
Bristle worm are good scavengers, and a large one would be no different in a tank than a small one. Leave him be!

[Reefbox]

Great scavenger. If u dont want it, ship it to me.

[JHemdal]

Not all "giant bristleworms" are harmless. We have two 3' long Eunice sp. in our 1500 gallon reef that eat soft corals. They've been there for at least five years - at least that is when they got large enough to notice. They live at the bottom, but stretch up and pluck soft corals off the rocks when nobody is looking. I was amazed to discover that they have really good eyesight. I also suspect them in the disapearance of a school of Bartlett's anthias, but the only thing I've ever caught them eating were the soft corals. This is the species known as the "Bobbitt Worm".
We've tried different ways to remove them (too large to trap). Baiting them out and the jabbing a knife attached to a stick was tried, as were tangle nets. Our aquarist even went into the tank with a mask and a knife and tried to get them.
In the Med. sea, they use a similar worm species for fish bait, and have devised a worm trap to catch them alive. A tube is baited and set near the bottom. When the worm takes the bait, a door closes and pins its head. Then, a float is released that gently pulls the worm out of its hole and to the surface - pictures of it in Debelius's Med. Invert book.

Jay

[Peter Eichler]

Not all "giant bristleworms" are harmless. We have two 3' long Eunice sp. in our 1500 gallon reef that eat soft corals. They've been there for at least five years - at least that is when they got large enough to notice. They live at the bottom, but stretch up and pluck soft corals off the rocks when nobody is looking. I was amazed to discover that they have really good eyesight. I also suspect them in the disapearance of a school of Bartlett's anthias, but the only thing I've ever caught them eating were the soft corals. This is the species known as the "Bobbitt Worm".
We've tried different ways to remove them (too large to trap). Baiting them out and the jabbing a knife attached to a stick was tried, as were tangle nets. Our aquarist even went into the tank with a mask and a knife and tried to get them.
In the Med. sea, they use a similar worm species for fish bait, and have devised a worm trap to catch them alive. A tube is baited and set near the bottom. When the worm takes the bait, a door closes and pins its head. Then, a float is released that gently pulls the worm out of its hole and to the surface - pictures of it in Debelius's Med. Invert book.

Jay

While this is true, not many people are going to mistake a Eunicid for an Amphinomid worm.

[Peter Eichler]

Small bristle worms are an excellent part of your clean up crew, but the problem is that when they get large, they start realizing that they can "make their own food" rather than scavenge. That's when you start having problems.

I know a local reefer who had a large bristleworm take an eye off one of his fish (it was at night, and he saw it and got the worm off the fish, and the fish live for a few more years with only one eye). I had a large bristle worm take out a peppermint -- the bristle was large enough to play "tug of war" with the pepp and win when I fed pieces of scallop to the shrimp. I saw the bristle roaming the tank for food when I didn't feed it for a few days, then the shrimp molted and I saw the shrimp jammed in the hole at the top of the cave where he hung out (and where the bristle worm lived) -- I know the bristle ate him because he was newly molted and soft because the shrimp was jammed in a hole at the top of the cave rather than at the bottom (where he would have ended up if he had actually died first).

I wouldn't freak out or worry, but if you have had some "mysterious" disappearances or deaths I would make a diy trap and remove at least one of the possible suspects.

Sorry, but there very little chance that your bristleworm killed your shrimp, unless it's a Eunicid worm like Jay was speaking of. Common fireworms just aren't capable of taking down a live shrimp. It would be like hunting deer with a shopvac...

[BeanMachine]

I've got a 10 incher!


http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt158/jbean7693/BWorm2.jpg

[MarkD40]

I think B worms are good for the most part and I leave them alone. I keep several large snails in my refugium and noticed that occasionally one die for seemingly no reason. I have dozens of B worms in my refugium and asked in a post if they could be eating my snails and the consensus was no. Recently a large snail got wedged between a rock and the glass in my frag tank. All around the snails foot were large and small B worms that were clearly trying to get between the foot and the snails shell. I have come to the conclusion that these guys will eat big stuff if they are hungry, but I still feel that overall they are a good thing to have in your tank.

[Peter Eichler]

There is a species of bristleworm that specializes in eating snails, same goes for coral... They're so rare in the hobby that they're almost not worth mentioning and they're typically easy to pick out because of their behavior.

[Blown 346]

I would aslo remove it. They become more of a pest once they reach lengths over 6 inches normally. They will or I should say can, start to tear a tank apart literally.

[adambirk]

i am not keeping any softies in my new tank so that is not a concern at all with me. and i have never had a fish or invert just come up missing. and the snail that the worm was eating on was probably on its way out anyway cause i had a few of them that did not take well to the new switch over.

like i said i am pretty sure that it is harmless and who couldnt use another good scavenger. and i am sure the only reason that i have finally seen him is because i made sure i rinsed all my rocks off real good in saltwater to get any detris buidup out of them and there is all new sand in the new tank so there wasnt really much for it to scavange on yet so it went for the only thing in the tank dead or dying snails out in the open.

i was just kind of curious as too see what everybodys consensis was when they got big. still nasty buggers if you ask me but i dont plan on playing with it so i guess who really cares as long as it eats poop.

[chort55]

I have a couple bigger ones (6-8"+) in my 20g, they are fun to watch and harmless IMO. I actually like them all though, sometimes I sit there and watch their blood flow over my white sand while they are sifting :)

[clownaround2]

As I started this hobby, I had one that was about 20 inches (went all around a bucket bottom). That thing almost gave me a heart attack, because I was so scared catching it. Whenever I see a big bristleworm or fireworm and I have the opportunity to catch him, I'll get them out. Just don't trust them.

[adambirk]

see i guess that is the weird thing cause i never see it. i mean that was the second time in 3 years i have seen one in my tank. and the first time it was small less than 3 inches that i could see. and i watch my tank more at night with a light (both red and white light) durring the week than i do during the day cause of my light cycle and work hours. so it was kinda like wow were did you come from. then you wonder how many more are in there like that. i almost want to put a trap in there just to see how many i could trap so i had an idea how many i had in there.

but i did see someones avatar that was a really cool looking fire worm. now why cant i find something cool like that in my tank.:-)

[Peter Eichler]

I would aslo remove it. They become more of a pest once they reach lengths over 6 inches normally. They will or I should say can, start to tear a tank apart literally.

I would like for you to descibe how they "tear a tank apart" and how/why they magically become a pest 6"...

[tcwoodrn]

I had a foot long guy in my 29g biocube. I didn't tear anything apart to get him. I just figured out where he was hiding, lured him out with food, and caught him with tweezers. After that I dropped him in my buddies fuge.

[fantastic4]

had 10 year old live rock, about 200lbs, this has been my experience....

they are agressive for food and will cover evey inch of your tank for anything edible when the lights go out.

if you see one... trust me you have much much more,

they can grow to two if torn, so pulling one and tearing the end off just makes two.

they sting your skin like fire ants and make your skin turn to callus where the britsles stuck over a few days.

you can not rid your self of them unless you kill your live rock with fresh water soaking, or boil, I even took out every rock and hand plucked them with tweezers... not until I killed my LR did they vanish.... also they hide in the live sand.... and they will get into your fuge no matter what.....

starving your tank of food will not kill them, they simply just wait forever.

the only fish reasonably big enough to eat them is the dragon wrasse, and he did eat them, but only the ones he could get to..... so you never get rid of them and he did not eat the big ones.

they mate and create babies fast....

and they are so ugly,

Sorry worm lovers...

GL

[ludnix]

I don't understand why you're treating them like a pest. The only bad you mentioned was that they have a sting, which you'll only feel if you accidentally grab one of them, it's not like they will seek out your hand and try and sting it. The only time you should have to be concerned about them is when you're moving live rock.

[The Escaped Ape]

While this is true, not many people are going to mistake a Eunicid for an Amphinomid worm.

There has not been enough information provided for anyone to definitively identify what the OP saw in his tank. I'm quite surprised that people are coming up with definitive answers based on that ("it's definitely no problem/you should definitely get it out"). Creatures that are known by one overarching name to the casual aquarist are quite often from quite diverse species, with quite diverse maximum sizes, habits, diets and suitability for the aquarium.

While it might not be a eunicid worm, it could be a fireworm, rather than a bristleworm (both Amphinomid worms), which would be enough in my book to consider removing it, as they are known to eat coral and are big enough to give a much more potent sting than a bristleworm.

Here's a thread to highlight this point.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=753088

Let's go back to basics with this thread. The first question should have been:

"Does it look like any of these?"

1. Fireworm

http://marinediscovery.arizona.edu/alex%20tuttle%20webpage/fireworm.jpg

Another pic from someone's tank.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/Ruth001/Whatisit.jpg

2. Bristleworm

http://www.reefcorner.com/images/BristleWorm.jpg

3. Eunicid worm

http://scienceblogs.com/zooillogix/Giant%20Reef%20Bristle%20Worm%20Newquay.jpg

Unlikely to be number 3, I'd imagine, given that the OP is unlikely to be from the planet Arrakis, but quite possibly number 1, particularly at 10". However, if it's just a long, thin version of number 2, then I'd agree with the people saying it should be left as is.

[greenbean36191]

Well the OP's description pretty much rules out the bearded fireworm, which is the troublemaker (all amphinomids are fireworms). These guys are diurnal and very conspicuous because they crawl around in the open. The OP's worm is nocturnal and has only recently made an appearance and when it did, it only partially extended from a hole. That's not a description of Hermodice.

Peter's comments are mostly on-point. Aside from Hermodice, any of the fireworms are fine, regardless of size. They do not switch diet and they are not predators of healthy prey no matter how big they get. As he mentioned they have no jaws and literally lick their food to bits- not a very good adaptation to eating live prey. Like he and others have pointed out, there are other large worms like Oenone and eunicids which are a problem, but they're a problem because of the type of worm they are, not because they just got too big.

[Blown 346]

I would like for you to descibe how they "tear a tank apart" and how/why they magically become a pest 6"...



What I menat when i said tear a tank apart is they can become a nuisance. Some will eat corals, shrimp,snails. Why is everyone so defensive

[Lightsluvr]

I had a heavily fed seahorse tank with many zoanthid colonies in it... because of the abundance of food, the bristleworms reached infestation levels. They were living in the zoathids because there was constant competition for the prime hiding spots. They were irritating the zoas, causing them to close up when the worms came out to forage at feeding time.
When I shut that tank down, I was determined I was not going to transfer the infestation to a new tank. I gave the LR and zoas a RO/DI dip and got rid of hundreds of worms!
The worms below came out of one small zoa encrusted rock:
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff125/lightsluvr/bworm2-1.jpg

and these out of another:
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff125/lightsluvr/bworm1-1.jpg

and these came from underneath a single piece of LR:
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff125/lightsluvr/bworm3-1.jpg

and this monster is a Eunicid that was living amongst the bristles:
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff125/lightsluvr/bworm13.jpg

You can see the Eunicid in the container along with the bristles. RO/DI dip did not kill the Eunicid - only a vinegar dip and the garbage disposal took care of that issue.
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff125/lightsluvr/bworm04.jpg

IMO, if you can get a 10" worm out without sub-dividing it, go for it.

LL

[The Escaped Ape]

Well the OP's description pretty much rules out the bearded fireworm, which is the troublemaker (all amphinomids are fireworms). These guys are diurnal and very conspicuous because they crawl around in the open. The OP's worm is nocturnal and has only recently made an appearance and when it did, it only partially extended from a hole. That's not a description of Hermodice.

Peter's comments are mostly on-point. Aside from Hermodice, any of the fireworms are fine, regardless of size. They do not switch diet and they are not predators of healthy prey no matter how big they get. As he mentioned they have no jaws and literally lick their food to bits- not a very good adaptation to eating live prey. Like he and others have pointed out, there are other large worms like Oenone and eunicids which are a problem, but they're a problem because of the type of worm they are, not because they just got too big.

All that makes a lot of sense, although all the bristleworms I had in my last tank were pretty diurnal as well. I take the point about only half extending from the rock though. You're right, that's a clear indicator.

Sorry, I was a bit puzzled why people were dismissing the idea that it might be a pest out of hand when there was so little info to go on. But you've helpfully pointed out the key bits I missed. Thanks. :)

[Peter Eichler]

What I menat when i said tear a tank apart is they can become a nuisance. Some will eat corals, shrimp,snails. Why is everyone so defensive

Because they don't eat living things and are not predatory in any way, excluding eunicid and Hermodice worms of course... There has been a lot of misinformation about bristleworms for a very long time and it gets tiring to see it repeated over and over again.

[Blown 346]

That information is in books and over the net. I dont see how it could be mis information.

[adambirk]

i already knew that this way a bristle worm and not the others. i too know that bristles get a bad wrap from alot of people. getting blamed for killing fish, coral, inverts and what ever else. now i dont think that they are killers or anything like that. i also know that they are great little helpers.

i just wondered what the general consensis was about when they got really big. and since he is holed up in a rock that is super easy to get out of the tank i figured i would just find out if there might be anything that i should worry about when big.

i guess a good way to look at it is the bigger they get the more detris they eat!!!

[Peter Eichler]

That information is in books and over the net. I dont see how it could be mis information.

So wait, because it's on the net or in an aquarium book it's fact?:hammer::lolspin: Aquarium books have been one of the biggest sources of bad info in this hobby for years, the interent has recently surpassed books...

[adambirk]

i too agree that not all information out there is correct. i mean 15 years ago it was though impossible to keep sps corals in home aquaria and have them grow and thrive. 5 years or so ago it was said that you could not keep sps and clams under any lighting other than metal halide or they would die.

as the hobby advances we constantly learn new things. i do agree that a bristle worm is harmless as well. but some time in the past either a different worm ate a coral and they thought it was a bristle worm or caught a bristle worm eating (scavageing) a dead fish or invert and thought that it had to be the killer.

that is why i love rc so much because you can go on and talk to so many people that have been doing this for years and find out what there opinions are or what they have seen or experienced and then take all that information and make your own decison on what you should do in your situation.

i do like reading the aquarium books out there but i like being able to talk to multiple people that have had the same or similar experiences and gather info from them. to me that is a much more reliable form of info than what i read in a book.

thank you to all that have replyed to this thread this has been a pretty good discussion so far!!!!!!!!!!

[fasteddie99]

I have a slew of them as well. I have seen the same ones grow at such a fast rate that it does make me wonder if I have "hundreds" of them at this size (most about 3" long) in a 55gal, what will happen when they all get to be 10" or so?:eek1:

I guess they will be easier to catch as they get larger, but I have to say that I havent had a problem with them so far. They eat up all the leftovers and are usually the first critters to smell a freshly dead snail or invert and devouer it in no time.

They irritate my zoo polyps and tend to congregate within them, but they open back up within a few minutes so no harm done. As far as I am concerned they are good to have. They may sting a little if you touch them but so do urchins, just have to treat them like any other stinging tank inhabitant. I've touched them by mistake while moving rocks around but I've never fealt any sting so I couldnt tell you if it hurst or not:twitch:

Here is a pic at feeding time a few months ago, they have grown since. You can see possibly 7 just in this little area.

http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu209/fasteddie99/IMG_7677.jpg

[adambirk]

dude that is crazy i would never stick my hand in there again. haha

[fantastic4]

I don't understand why you're treating them like a pest. The only bad you mentioned was that they have a sting, which you'll only feel if you accidentally grab one of them, it's not like they will seek out your hand and try and sting it. The only time you should have to be concerned about them is when you're moving live rock.

very true, no disagreement. In my specific case my live rock (carrried forward from one tank to another over 10 years) had an abundance of them, to the point where at night they would smother the live rocks. When I sifted the sand to remove the black bacteria layer from the glass, they were always there as well, I guess I could of worn gloves when sifting. In my case, I just had to many, and they became unsightly and agressive with fish feedings over time. One night they all came out (seemed like thousands of them) and they were in some milky spawning session. At this point I realized I had an army of them, tried everything.... sparse feedings, stockings with food, bottle traps.... I honestly believe over time, these britsle worms will breed and grow to the point where they are your main bioload, .....for me I took out the LV and reseeded and all is fine again.