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View Full Version : High Alkalinity...can't bring it down


Reef Ridster
10/12/2009, 06:36 PM
I have a Solana 34g ( six months) and something is not right. Parameters are all within range albeit, I can't seem to bring down the alkalinity: 12-13

Obviously Calcium has been difficult to raise.

Solana 34g
NEP Light 9 Hour cycle
Stock Skimmer
No bioballs
Purapad in second chamber
Weekly 5 gallon water changes
Extreme Typhoon RO/DI
Reef Crystals

Bioload:
Mated Maroons
Cleaner Shrimp
Emerald Crab
Assorted hermits and snails

Corals:
Frogspawn was 6" across and very happy, now opens maybe to 2"
Hammer was 5" across now opens to an inch and lost two heads
Candy Canes used to be full and plump now tight and half open
Xenia's from Biocube29g grew awesome with intense pulsing: two months in the Solana barley pulse and no further growth.
Red Sea Xenia went from white to brown placed mid tank

Parameters:
Ammonia 0
Nitrates 5
Alkalinity 12-13
Calcium 410
Mag 1280
Phos 0

The corals are telling the story but the parameters aren't giving any insight. Dosing only Calcium and Magnesium...no dkh.

Test results are from LFS using Salifert.

Could something be going on with RODI and Reef Crystals? Overskimming?

Over two months trying to solve it and nothing....frustrated!

bertoni
10/12/2009, 06:44 PM
[welcome]

What's being dosed into the system? Alkalinity should drop on its own if it's not being added. That level of alkalinity is not high enough to cause problems in most cases.

SWINGRRRR
10/12/2009, 06:46 PM
Chemistry and the Aquarium (http://web.archive.org/web/20021127040526/http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm)

Reef Ridster
10/12/2009, 07:05 PM
What's being dosed into the system? Alkalinity should drop on its own if it's not being added. That level of alkalinity is not high enough to cause problems in most cases.

I am not dosing anything in the system other than what I stated in 1st post? My understanding is Alk should be around 9. Okay, I am not that bad but something is clearly the culprit.

As far as dropping on its own, two months ago it was at 14...should have had better results by now....

Bn251
10/12/2009, 07:26 PM
iv been having a hard time raising mine... i wish mine was higher...

Bn251
10/12/2009, 07:27 PM
how often are you waterchanges?

Henry Bowman
10/12/2009, 07:31 PM
The level your alk is at is not "bad". It is a bit high. If you try to change it quickly you will stress your corals and tank livestock. What are you using to check SG with? I'd double check to ensure you are running 1.025-1.026

Reef Ridster
10/12/2009, 08:30 PM
The level your alk is at is not "bad". It is a bit high. If you try to change it quickly you will stress your corals and tank livestock. What are you using to check SG with? I'd double check to ensure you are running 1.025-1.026

Refractometer: 1.025

Like the original post says: I have tried all the easy answer stuff and still Alk remains a bit higher and corals continue to display there is a problem.

Reef Ridster
10/12/2009, 08:31 PM
Chemistry and the Aquarium (http://web.archive.org/web/20021127040526/http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm)

Read this before posting, I am assuming I am in Zone 3

greenmonkey51
10/12/2009, 08:34 PM
Salifert alk tests have been known to be off in the past.

Reef Ridster
10/12/2009, 09:04 PM
I hear ya Greenmonkey, that is why I went LFS and got them tested again. Both were similar. Coralline growth has stalled for over two months so I naturally thought it was related.

Let's say parameters are fine....the questions remains, what is causing the my corals that were once quite happy to recede? what is causing Coralline to stop growing?

bertoni
10/12/2009, 10:12 PM
All of the other numbers are reasonable. I don't see any supplements at all in your first post. Usually, this sort of problem is caused by a pH buffer product, all of which raise alkalinity. Have you tried testing the alkalinity of some freshly-mixed saltwater and the RO/DI water? Maybe the RO/DI is having problems.

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/13/2009, 04:53 AM
What are you dosing for calcium and magnesium?

Never added any buffers?

9501gle
10/13/2009, 03:34 PM
I feel your pain. I had the same problem when I got started. With some good advice from Randy I was finally able to get a handle on controling alk. What helped me was stop adding anything to the tank for cal supplementation and use only Kent Marine Turbo Calcium to raise the cal level to where you want it then daily as needed to maintain. Test your freshly mixed wc water. Test anything else you add also. The alk is getting a boost from somewhere. If you are doing frequent wc's with a high alk make up test before and after to see how much its rasing alk. Once I got this under control my corals looked much better. I now keep mine 7-8 dkh.

Percula9
10/14/2009, 09:51 AM
How often do you do water changes? Try a different salt. How old are your bulbs? What is the pH?

SirToppemHat
10/14/2009, 12:15 PM
+2 for Salifert Alk tests being too high, I would get an ADI to test, and start using ADI as the primary alk test. I had a very similiar situation before I switched.

Reef Ridster
10/16/2009, 05:16 PM
Hey Fellas, didn't mean to disappear but took time to replace all my filters in RODI setup including membrane.

Have you tried testing the alkalinity of some freshly-mixed saltwater and the RO/DI water? Maybe the RO/DI is having problems.

Tested water coming from DI (new filters) and Alkalinity is at 1 (salifert). I will take freshly made Salt water tomorrow to LFS and get tested.

What are you dosing for calcium and magnesium? Never added any buffers?

Calcium: Brightwell Aquatics Calcion 10ml every other two days
Magnesium: Brightwell Aquatics 10ml every other two days
Dkh: Nothing added for two months

I feel your pain. What helped me was stop adding anything to the tank for cal supplementation and use only Kent Marine Turbo Calcium to raise the cal level to where you want it then daily as needed to maintain.

I will try this but of course just bought a new bottle of Brightwell Aquatics Calcion

How often do you do water changes? Try a different salt. How old are your bulbs? What is the pH?

Weekly water changes, Nova Pro Extreme four months old. PH had been testing low but stopped as I read it was related to Alkalinity.

I am now down to the salt: Reef Crystals. My other tanks (also suffering) will require water changes this weekend and I will test the new Salt water to see where Alkalinity falls.

Hopefully the issue was with filtration however with the low reading now, if it is the salt, I will switch salts as suggested.

I do appreciate the feedback and feel free to enlighten me where needed.....

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/16/2009, 05:36 PM
My guess is that something is causing the hard corals to not calcify, and that stops the demand for alkalinity, keeping it high. Phosphate, maybe, despite the test result.

No need to change the calcium additive.

Reef Ridster
10/16/2009, 05:51 PM
Interesting you say that Randy because when this all started I had a significant hair algae outbreak, which made me aware of the high phosphates and that is when I began looking at the filtration setup has exhausted.

I run everything stock in the tank and use only a Purapad in Chamber 2. Live Rock is about 35to 40lbs and one inch of sand.

I have begun to wonder if I am light on mechanical filtration although moved away form that when all the other parameters including phosphates came into acceptable levels.

Reef Ridster
10/17/2009, 09:56 AM
I mixed a batch of salt with reef crystals and normally use (5) 1/2 cups for 5 gallons. After sitting all night salinity which usually comes in right at .025, is at .30....I am wondering if salt is bad. Parameter tests on new water to follow later today.

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/17/2009, 11:22 AM
Probably just a bit less moisture in the dry salt than you got previously. No need to suspect a problem.

Reef Ridster
10/17/2009, 11:33 AM
So Randy, you don't think it is salt, rather it is the filtration?

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/17/2009, 12:11 PM
That causes what? Lack of much calcification?

What is the tank salinity?

Reef Ridster
10/17/2009, 12:18 PM
That is causing my Alk to say high...Tank Salanity is good at 1.025

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/17/2009, 12:23 PM
No, I do not think it could be solely the salt unless you are changing massive amounts.

If you change the equivalent of 1% daily (30% monthly), the amount brought in by a salt mix being 4 dKH above the tank is only 0.04 dKH per day, while a typical reef tank will consume 0.5 to 2 dKH per day. So the demand must also be unusually low.

Reef Ridster
10/17/2009, 12:36 PM
Makes sense, what causes alkalinity demand?

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/17/2009, 01:43 PM
Generally, calcifying corals, coralline algae, and other organisms. They do not calcify well if phosphate is high or if calcium or alkalinity is low.

Reef Ridster
10/17/2009, 03:24 PM
With what you just said, I had a hammer coral, a large torch coral, three candy cane corals all needing calcium plus other things you mentioned. Combine that with the filter that needed changed and maybe it started the whole episode. I just didn't think those corals would soak up that much calcium....I guess that is what they call the learning curve

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/17/2009, 03:42 PM
:thumbsup:

Good luck. :)