Should I upgrade to T5 or MH?

[black_ice_pc]

I have a 95g tank (48L x 18W x 28H) currently running on 520w of PC. Stupid move buying the PC's in the first place, but oh well. It's been over a year now and the stock bulbs are noticeably fading. Time to upgrade!

After reading countless threads, I still can't decide between T5's or MH's.
The two setups I'm considering are:

2x 250w MH DIY------
Undecided electronic ballast
Bulbs: probably these (http://cgi.ebay.com/2-x-250W-250-watt-14000K-Metal-Halide-Aquarium-Bulb-14K_W0QQitemZ260360869988QQcategoryZ46314QQcmdZViewItem) to start with.
Good reflector like lumenarc or similar.

OR

7x 48" 54w T5--------
Undecided bulbs
Parabolic reflectors
Either Workhorse or Sylvania ballasts

My current lighting can just barely support red monti, with virtually no growth and bad color. I'm wanting to be able to keep SPS like acro with good color and decent growth, along with LPS, rics and zoas. Of the two options listed, which would be a better choice if either? Other suggestions are welcome.

[fox2589]

your tank is pretty tall..i would go with 2 250's with a lumenarc mini reflector..but thats just me lol-drew

[Reefbox]

mh no doubt, especially at that depth 28".

[black_ice_pc]

I agree about the height, but I'm planning on keeping mainly zoas and rics on the bottom. Then LPS mid to top, and SPS up top. Given that config, would you still say halides?
I also just realized that 7 T5's would fit over the tank. I'm leaning towards the halides myself, but want to see others' opinions.

[SaltFreek]

MH for sure... and do yourself (and your tank) a favor and skip the eBay bulbs. I guarantee if you buy those first, you'll just end up buying quality bulbs soon after.

[MCCOOL]

I think they are both good options, but I would go with the T5's personally. SPS would do fine on the top half of the tank and the zoas/rics and LPS would do great down lower.

[black_ice_pc]

One other issue: heat. The tank is in my bedroom. We keep the house at 79 but my tank sometimes gets up to maybe 82. My current fixtures are sitting above the tank with ~1.5" clearance, and run for 9 hours. I would hang the MH's or T5's. If I hang the halides say, 8" above the tank and ventilate the pendants with fans, would I still have heat issues?

SaltFreek ---
Do you have experience with those bulbs? What would you recommend instead?
Cheaper the better lol.

MCCOOL---
Why would you go with T5's over halides?

[tcwoodrn]

Why not both? At 48" you can find plenty of fixtures that have dual 250w halides and also have 4 t5s. If you're doing one or the other I would go with MH.

[black_ice_pc]

That would definitely be optimal, but I'm worried about keeping heat under control and I'm working on a tight budget. That's why both of the options I put are DIY lol.

[black_ice_pc]

Thanks for the input guys, keep it coming!

[MCCOOL]

You would save over 100 watts which would be alot less heat to deal with, also to get good colors with the mh you would need actinics or 20k bulbs but with the 20k bulbs the growth wouldn't be the best. With the T5's you can get great color and growth, all with minimal heat.

[MCCOOL]

I'll admit I've only ever had T5's so I'm probably a little partial haha

[tcwoodrn]

If heat is a concern than I think you personally need to go with T5s. To get enough light for a solid reef in a 90 you would have to have at least 2- 250watts which make a lot of heat. You can always have a fan blow between the lights and the tank, but that only does so much.

I also fully agree that unless you do 20k bulbs you need actinics to help the color. I use phoenix 14k and they are just too white if my actinics are off.

[grigsy]

I would go with halides. I have always been pleased with my tank when using MH.

I have been running Hamilton Cayman Sun 250W HQI Pendants over my tank for a few months now and am very happy with the results.

http://www.hamiltontechnology.com/shop/index.php?task=show&cat=Specials

[James77]

You could even go with 175w Iwasaki 15k bulbs, they give off as much PAR as some 250 watt bulbs. Color is a bright crisp white.

[Reefun]

I think you would get more light to the bottom of the tank with a GOOD T5 fixture or retro. I can grow anything on the bottom of my 75 including acros. The extra 6 inches deep your tank is would not make much difference. I have a 8 bulb TEK fixture. You could probable get away with 6 bulbs as long as you go with high par bulbs like Blue+ for the blue bulbs. And best of all much less heat.

[black_ice_pc]

Ok so now the sides have split. The supplemental actinic lighting for the MH is definitely a con to me, and the lower power and heat of the T5's is definitely nice. That might be the deal breaker for me.
If I were to DIY a T5 setup, I'd most likely be using Ice Cap 2.5" parabolics, so I could just barely fit 7 bulbs over the tank, but the edges of the outer reflectors would probably just dump a good bit of light on the floor. 6 would be more practical, but that's less light.
If I got a TEK 8 bulb that would maximize the bulb count above the tank. Might be the way to go, although price is much more than DIY. I guess that's just how it goes.

I wonder what PAR readings I could expect from the T5's vs. MH.


Reefun-----
How wide are the reflectors in the TEK? I know they're individual parabolic, right? But I've never heard how wide they are that I can recall.

[divewsharks]

you can use Aquatinic reflectors, at last check they were the narrowest available and are high quality. With those and IC ballast and high quality bulbs, you shouldn't have any problems with SPS quite a ways down in your tank.
My tank is 25" tall and i keep SPS right off the sand bed with clams on the sandbed.

[Boyman]

I've used T-5s since the beginning, about to set up my new tank with MHs just to have the shimmer effect.

Going for 1x250s over a 40 breeder for now

[Jared J]

I have this same dilemma. I'm planning a 120g now and I like the MH but I keep reading how people switched to all T5's. I think 8 T5's would be the max I could fit over a 120 but at 54w each I don't get how that's enough light without MH.

[black_ice_pc]

Jared J-----
The way I understand it, T5's are more efficient at producing light, aka more lumens per watt. So even though there's not as many watts, there's more light for every watt of power used. Watts are a measure of power used (Watts = Volts x Amps) and lumens, PAR etc are a measure of light.
So if I went with 8 x 54w T5, I'd have 432 watts of power used. If I used the 2 x 250 unsupplemented MH, I'd use 500w of power. So that's 68w difference, which isn't much. But the T5's are more efficient. So now that I'm thinking about it this way, I'm seeing that, depending of the quality of bulbs, reflectors etc there might be more available light (at least mid-high) from the T5's. Any experts want to chime in here? Grim?

[Jared J]

And this grows SPS's well? I'll have to try it. If I can keep the wattage down I may not have to run a new circuit. If I used a 2 MH fixture it would be 760w with the actinics. 432w sounds better to me. What about using the IceCap ballasts and getting 84 watts out of the bulbs instead of 54?

[E.intheC]

your tank is pretty tall..i would go with 2 250's with a lumenarc mini reflector..but thats just me lol-drew

+1. Unless you go with a super high end fixture like a powermodule, but even then, I think that 250's will be better.

Good luck.

[rtparty]

Alright I will chime in for you.

You will only need 6 bulbs over that tank. Squeezing 7 in will only light your floor and last time I checked the carpet doesn't grow too well!

Go to reefgeek and get the Aqua Illumination reflectors. You don't need the Ice Cap ballasts. Just get the standard High Output ballasts.

For bulbs do this:

ATI Blue Plus
UVL 75/25
ATI Blue Plus
KZ Fiji Purple
ATI Blue Plus
ATI Blue Plus

Also look at ordering an extra ATI Aquablue just in case the above combo is too blue for you.

Trust me, you will have no problem keeping any SPS down to 22" or so. I would bet low light SPS would grow on the sand bed even.

You have to remember that more of the coral is getting hit with light when using T5's. The light is spread out with T5 where as with MH it is a point source light which causes a lot of shadows. This is an easy choice in my opinion.

[black_ice_pc]

And this grows SPS's well? I'll have to try it. If I can keep the wattage down I may not have to run a new circuit. If I used a 2 MH fixture it would be 760w with the actinics. 432w sounds better to me. What about using the IceCap ballasts and getting 84 watts out of the bulbs instead of 54?

I'd like to run the Ice Caps myself, but they run ~$150 a piece, whereas an Advanced or Sylvania ballast runs about $55. And from what rtparty's saying, it sounds like it wouldn't be necessary to overdrive the bulbs anyway. Plus at $20-25 a pop, I want my bulbs to last as long as possible lol. I admit that I originally wanted to go with the IC ballasts too, but they're just too much money for me.

[bergzy]

i know that this does not even remotely apply to your situation but my 90g cube is lit with ONE 250w de bulb in a lumenmax elite reflector.

besides cutting my lighting costs in half, the aesthetics are so much cooler as it it creates a slight shadowing near the front glass perfect for softies.

the light is not perfectly centered over the tank. it is set a little towards the back.

the t5 vs mh debate is just as endless as which skimmer is the best or pepsi vs coke. ;)

[black_ice_pc]

Trust me I'm aware of the endless debate lol. I don't know how many hours I've spent reading the endless arguments. My hope was that people could help me given my specfic situation.

We all know that both systems have pros and cons, and one might be better than the other is specific instances. For me, it looks like T5's are probably the way I'll be going, mainly due to less heat and more color customization. The real issue in the first place for me was whether or not T5's could grow SPS well.

Oh and it's Coke for sure. Haha

[possys]

What about LED Light? T5 and MH are old techology. LED will be the way to go.

[black_ice_pc]

What about LED Light? T5 and MH are old techology. LED will be the way to go.

Like you said, "Led will be the way to go." Not only is the entry price exponentially over my budget, but I feel that it's not truly at its prime yet. New LEDs are coming out all the time, and the ones in current fixtures are far from the best out there. Plus two years from now the LEDs we have today will probably be far outdated. I think that LED is a very promising option that still needs more time.

[divewsharks]

The real issue in the first place for me was whether or not T5's could grow SPS well.


won't have a single issue growing SPS with rich/vibrant color. just use quality reflectors and bulbs.

[Puffdragon]

I have a 120 with 6 T5's all with IC SLR's, 4 overdriven by a IC ballast. I also have a 37 column with a 250w DE on a ARO ballast. Both tanks are 24 inches tall. The MH is a 14K Phoenix, the T5's are closer to 20K. There is not a nickels worth of difference in the amount of light in the tank. The coral colors are slightly lighter with the MH, but really pop under the T5 combo I use. I have a Crocea clam growning on the the sand bed and a red monti cap also on the sand bed, growing like a weed. SPS growth in the 120 is great.
Here are the differences I see.

More even light and any color I like with the T5's. Shimmer with the MH. Bulb life, 12-14 months on the electronic driven DE MH. 12-15 months on the T5's, overdriven also. If yo go witth the single end MH, you are looking at 6-8 months.

[James77]

What about LED Light? T5 and MH are old techology. LED will be the way to go.


They are old technologies that work very well. They both are reasonable in cost and very reliable, and have proven long term results and success.

When LED prices can compare to them, and as their reliabilty increases, then yes, LEDs will probably give MH and T5 a run for their money.

[black_ice_pc]

I think that the LED's day is coming. I'm actually a flashlight enthusiast, so I know about the LED's that are out there and do alot of DIY in that hobby. The fixtures out there right now aren't even using today's high-end LED's. So there's no way they'll still be competitive in say, two years from now.
Once somebody makes an LED system with an array that allows:
Precision color customization
MH intensity(or better) output at a lower power level
Proven durability using non-overdriven LED's
A price that can be stomached
Then I'll be interested, and I definitely think that day will come.

[possys]

I just got two LED for Eco Lamps one is KR91 for LPS other one KR92 for SPS and I love them. I showed them to a few of my friends and I have to order a few more for my friends too. I wish I can show you the lamps. but if anyone intersted I can get you 15%. Don't get me wrong, I am not sellig the lamps for them. I just know someone working in the company that can hook you up to get discount. Let me know ahead of time, if you are going to purchase from them, I will let them know to give you the discount.
http://www.eco-sell.com/

[black_ice_pc]

Check this (http://www.hellolights.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1824) retro out. Anybody have any experience with this kit? It looks interesting for $200, and it'll give me some bulbs to use for a little while till I get good bulbs. I'd buy two. I contacted hellolights with a few questions, but still haven't got a response to my email.

With two of these kits I could have a 8 bulb T5 setup for $400.
I ran the numbers and I think it would cost about $580 total for an 8 bulb DIY. I'd use:
8 Aquactinics 2" reflectors
2 Sylvania ballasts
Other necessary hardware
Bulbs-----
4 ATI Blue Plus,
2 ATI Aquablue,
1 UVL Super Actinic,
1 GE 6500K.

[spoofer]

i'm with rtparty... it's about PAR out put and results... i'm currently using a combo MH/T5but switching to ATI PM 8x54... colors are better and consitant light....it's a matter of opinion though.

I like this hobby for the growth and color of my reef... .. bottom line...i want it to look HOT!

I keep seeing awesome T5 setups...i'm going to try and if it sucks then i'll go back eventurally...

Good luck either way

[divewsharks]

i have no personal experience with those reflectors, but from what i have read, they aren't the best. Aquatinics reflectors are very good.

[RLHornbeck]

I have a 30" deep tank now with 250w MH's and love it. I can keep almost anything but you must think about where you are going to put things due to high light up high and less as you move down. I just went with the cheap spider reflectors, and so far so good with those.

[rkb]

I have used PC, T5s and now MH. I liked the ATI Aquablue specials, nice bright blue white light. But for me nothing beats the shimmer you get from a single point of light like MH. However I am not in the 20K MH bulb camp. I prefer a 10k bulb mixed with actinic, this gives a bright tank that has a bluish tint but does not appear unatural. If heat is a concern than the T5 is the better option, that said while not as extreme as MH, T5s will put off some heat. And, 7 or 8 of them mounted close to the water's surface in a warm room will most likely call for some cooling fans beyond what is stock in the fixture.

[black_ice_pc]

Ok I'll keep going on the DIY route. Sounds like that retro isn't that great, and I want something that I'll be truly happy with and not regret getting, like my PC's.

[rtparty]

Ok I'll keep going on the DIY route. Sounds like that retro isn't that great, and I want something that I'll be truly happy with and not regret getting, like my PC's.

Then AVOID the Hellolights stuff. T5 is the one place where more expensive usually means better performance. The ATI stuff is the best available today. Reefgeek retro's are number 2. If you spend a little more now you will be happier in the end.