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davemc1234
10/13/2009, 12:15 PM
I know people run carbon 24/7 but every time I run rowa carbon for a week I have big problems with my sps they seem to strip ,at first I thought it was light shock ,but I only use a small hand full in a sock in a 7' system does any body have any ideas. I am getting to the point where I am frightened to put it in,and is it necessary.

9501gle
10/13/2009, 03:17 PM
Are you rinsing it well.

Boomer
10/13/2009, 03:20 PM
You are having those issue in *your* tank because you keep destabilizing the nutrient level of the tank. It is not could for coral health to keep changing the nutrient level as they get use to one level, do fine and then you change it back to another in a week. Either let it run 24/7 or run it once a day (24hrs) /week and not a week at a time. If you decide to run it 24/7 start it with 1/8 cup / 50 gals, the next month up it to 1/4 cup 50 gal and the next month to 1/2 cup / 50 gals.

davemc1234
10/13/2009, 03:46 PM
Thank you Boomer that makes a lot of sence .Is it necessary to run it at all ,would I still get the same effects if I use it for 24hrs once a month is that what you are saying .

Boomer
10/13/2009, 04:34 PM
To run 24/ 7, once a week or not at all is a choice, I advise 24 /7. And running it once a week will not give the same effect as 24/ 7 by a long shot, as far as cleaning up the water of DOC and other unwanted organics.

Flipper62
10/14/2009, 02:18 AM
To run 24/ 7, once a week or not at all is a choice, I advise 24 /7. And running it once a week will not give the same effect as 24/ 7 by a long shot, as far as cleaning up the water of DOC and other unwanted organics.

Boomer.......This post kinda baffels me.

I run it 24/7..& change it out every 2 weeks.........WHY would anyone just run it once a week ?????

CleveYank
10/14/2009, 06:07 AM
Boomer.......This post kinda baffels me.

I run it 24/7..& change it out every 2 weeks.........WHY would anyone just run it once a week ?????



Maybe boomer's reason will be different.

But running carbon longer in some setups (they'll all different like snowflakes) the carbon can actually cause problems in that yes it's removing tint from the water and warfare chemicals from leathers and zoas. It can in some systems become an active biofilter and thereby disrupt where bacteria grows for ammonia and nitrite uptake and can then become a nitrate factory and thus push down the bacteria strength in the liverock and with the added nitrate cause hair algae. Some systems don't skip a beat from it and some it can bring in issues so only occassional use is best for those setups.

Boomer
10/14/2009, 09:07 AM
WHY would anyone just run it once a week ?????

Some think it strips the water of to many nutrients, which is bad for their tank. I disagree.

As far as it running to long and becoming a nitrate factory I agree and is why I always tell you guys most of the time to remove it once a week and rinse it well in RO/DI water and replace it once / month. I mean, there are some waste-water systems where GAC is used to create a bio-filter.

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/14/2009, 11:35 AM
While we're on the topic, Boomer...

Any idea how much bacteria like to colonize GAC relative to other surfaces in the tank, like live rock, sand, polyethylene, or glass?

The reason I ask is in wondering with organic carbon dosing, how much export of bacteria is likely to occur from GAC, recognizing that much of the GAC surface is not accessible to bacteria (based on size exclusion) and that the tank has a lot of other surface area.

TIA


Oh, by the way, did you happen to see the recent crappy movie on Sci Fi called Megafault? It had a demolitions guy named Boomer. :D

Mr. Thingdoer
10/14/2009, 11:47 AM
I just wonder what the effect of the chemicals absorbed by carbon has on the bacteria that would colonize it.

Boomer
10/14/2009, 11:52 AM
Yes, I watched that the other night also and caught the name :) Also have been watching all the new dino stuff on NG, extra cool :) Looks like Jack has ****ed off, once again, lots of people :lol: But to me he is right on target as he has crap loads of thinkin' way outside the box :)

Any idea how much bacteria like to colonize GAC relative to other surfaces in the tank, like live rock, sand, polyethylene, or glass?

Off hand no but many carbons have 600 - 1,000 m<sup>2</sup>/gram of SA. If we use 5 grams (@1,000m<sup>2</sup>)/ gal GAC x 50 gal net = 250,000 m<sup>2</sup> (~2700 ft.<sup>2</sup>). For all practicable purposes the Iodine # = SA. I'll see if I can find something in my GAC books and links.

Boomer
10/14/2009, 11:53 AM
I just wonder what the effect of the chemicals absorbed by carbon has on the bacteria that would colonize it.

They would "eat" lots of it :)

davemc1234
10/14/2009, 11:58 AM
Hi and thank you for your advice,although I have been keeping sps for about five years I can not say I have had great success.This being one of my main issues on how to use carbon right because every time I use it my corals strip,so on the advice given I will use it slowly like boomer explains.

davemc1234
10/14/2009, 12:26 PM
Hi when you say start with 1/8 of a cup to 50 gallons and then slowly increase is there an exact weight ,bearing in mind cup sizes are different and not sure what size to use are there any articles links that you recommend I could read many thanks dave mc

Randy Holmes-Farley
10/14/2009, 12:37 PM
If you didn't live in the UK, you'd know that a cup was 237 mL. :D

dwanner
10/14/2009, 12:51 PM
Boomer,

I run my GAC in a reactor, would you recommend removing it from the reactor once per week and rinsing it or is that recommendation more geared towards GAC ran in a filter bag.

Boomer
10/14/2009, 03:56 PM
Dave

You reall can not go by weight of vol. here is an example. You have a large container we are going to fill with golf-balls and steel ball bearings which both have the same vol displacement. But the golf-balls have dimples in them so they have more SA and less weight than the ball-bearings. Now we go by weight and it is obvious the ball-bearings weigh allot more. We add 10 lbs of ball-bearing and 10 lbs of golf-balls to the container and you should know that the golf-ball vol we much more so than the ball-bearings vol /SA. One would need a data sheet for any GAC you use with is bulk density and SA. SA and bulk density is also not a final the final word, as you also need to look at pore vol and how accessible they. The adsorption rates of Wood vs Peat vs Lignite vs Bitum vs Coconut Shells are all different, even if they had the same SA and bulk density, due to a difference in the pore sizes.

I go only by vol as that is the easiest for must ans must do not have weightometers or weight balances. Any body has cups, teaspoons , table spoons, fluid oz, etc. I will add that all cups, tsp, Tbs etc, are different here than in the UK or Europe i.e., 1 Cup USA = 0.8 Cups UK. So, as Randy pointed out for you, liters is the best i.e, 1 Cup USA = 237 mL


dwanner

I do not think this is needed for reactors as they are somewhat self-cleaning

ksed
10/14/2009, 07:22 PM
Boomer

Any idea if Rox 0.8 carbon is a good carbon.

As I am thinking of taking up on the offer of buy one and get a free GFO.

Thanks

Kevin

Boomer
10/14/2009, 10:33 PM
It sure as hell better be :) It was me that brought it to this hobby 20 years ago, then called ROW. I have posted on it here for years and BRS read my posts on it here, to include their Lignite Acid Washed and then they started selling it. ROX is 1.5 - 1.75 more adsorbent than any other GAC we use in this hobby. ROX 0.8 is the real name of it, sold and manufactured by American Norit.

Flipper62
10/14/2009, 10:50 PM
Boomer, So I guess from what you have said....I'm OK.

I run carbon 24/7...I rince it every week & replace it every 2 weeks. I know replacement of the carbon every 2 weeks is a bit soon. But thats just how anal I am about my tanks. The cost of the carbon is not an issue. I have much more invested in the tank.

Boomer
10/14/2009, 11:04 PM
Yah, you are good to go and better than most :)

Joe
10/15/2009, 05:41 AM
Hi,

Has anyone used the Brightwell Aquatics Carbonit P (pellitized)? Is that comparable to, or the same as, the ROX 0.8?

Thanks,

Joe

ksed
10/15/2009, 06:02 AM
It sure as hell better be :) It was me that brought it to this hobby 20 years ago, then called ROW. I have posted on it here for years and BRS read my posts on it here, to include their Lignite Acid Washed and then they started selling it. ROX is 1.5 - 1.75 more adsorbent than any other GAC we use in this hobby. ROX 0.8 is the real name of it, sold and manufactured by American Norit.

Thanks Boomer

Is thats a division of Norit N.V. A Dutch firm.


Kevin

davemc1234
10/15/2009, 11:35 AM
Thanks for all your advice boomer.

Boomer
10/15/2009, 12:10 PM
Kevin yes it is.

You bet Dave

Joe, no it is not ROX by a long shot. BA is a VPC ( Vapor/gas Phase Carbon) and can be used for water but is not designed for water and can not be as good a LP (Liquid Phase Carbon). It is crap GAC for a reef tank IMHO. BA is a large pellet carbon and ROX looks like broken mechanical pencil lead. That 0.8 = 0.8 mm in diameter. That BA looks like "trout chow pellets".

I always get a charge on their line of misleading BS

Features high capacity for organic removal (high Molasses number), high Iodine number, low ash content, minimal dust, and immeasurable phosphate (verified with lab-grade water analysis equipment).
Average particle size encourages optimal flow and effectiveness; may be employed in canister or passive filtration

Hmmm, so why not give us its Ash, Molasses and Iodine number and the mesh size of the GAC. I guess he does not want us to know ;)