I can keep fish but snails... die :(

[nanshaw2001]

Mothers day gift. 150 has been set up since May. No ammonia, nitrates, or nitrites... ph is high and alk low. Any input sincerely appreciated. Thought it may have been temp ( was at 80 first addition) or salinity ( little high then too) but I tried 3 more Cerith snails yesterday and they croaked immediately- temp is now @ 78 and sg @ 1.023. I have a half black angel and a couple of chromis in there now and they have been there almost since I set up the tank. Need to get the tank cleaned up so I can move some corals over there from my 55. Any ideas? TIA

[sweetleaf]

Do you test for calcium? It's necessary for snails to develop their shells.

Try testing, and maybe consider using an additive to maintain levels.

[widmer]

The probable causes:

1. Have any brown algae-looking stuff on the rocks or sand? If you do, it could be cyanobacteria, which can kill the snails pretty much immediately.

2. Is there any chance you could have copper in your water? IE you poured the water into your tank that the fish you bought came in, and the LFS had been keeping them in water that had copper in it. Snails are very sensitive to copper.

3. Are you totally sure that your specific gravity is accurate? I would see if an LFS can check your salt level on their refractometer, many LFS do this...

[100%hydrophylic]

how does cyanobacteria kill snails???

[Ritten]

Do you drip acclimate them well?

[ludnix]

The probable causes:

1. Have any brown algae-looking stuff on the rocks or sand? If you do, it could be cyanobacteria, which can kill the snails pretty much immediately.


I haven't ever heard this inside the hobby or out. Snails are well known for being one of the few grazers of cyanobacteria, what is your source on this?

[nanshaw2001]

Thanks all for you input! My tank is FULL of brown stuff which I assumed was anothed diatom bloom. What can I do to counteract it or test for it? More help please!!!!!!

[mm949]

sounds like an iron issue....do you use tap or RO.?
i would also check your PO4 levels

[nanshaw2001]

Tap.....I have a well. How to test and what is PO4? No flaming please...admitted newb!!!!

[nanshaw2001]

Tap.....I have a well. How to test and what is PO4? No flaming please...admitted newb!!!!

[kfisc]

You need to test everything you can with the best kits; PO4 = phosphate; nitrate, alk, calcium, magnesium. Even ammonia and nitrites. Water flow has to be strong enough to move detritus in suspension so your skimmer can catch it, and feeding has to be controlled to keep too much from deteriorating and fueling the algae. You must use RO/DI water unless you test your well water for just about everything (mighty difficult) that could cause problems.

Snails have to be carefully introduced; just lumping them in the tank is a guarantee that most will die of shock within days- you can drip acclimate (best method), or at least turn them loose at the top rim of the tank just at the water line so they can acclimate on their own.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Copper can kill invertebrates without killing fish, so it might be part of the problem.

Do you use tap water?

[fishsticks4sale]

your using tap water for top offs?? STOP LIKE ASAP do NOT use TAP WATER anymore... start buying your water if you cant get a R/O unit or R/O DI...
i was using tap water and it really damaged my tank im still dealing with problems from using tap water. goto your LFS they should sell R/O water if not ask them where u can get it.. sorry if im screaming just tryna save u:rollface:

[jbob]

his well water might be fine.

[moze229]

In my experience, snails have to be some of the most sensitive animals we can put in our tanks. I've been doing this for about 7-8 years, and I've had some times where maintenance wasn't quite what it should have been. One or two weeks of non-maintenance (no water changes) seems to kill my snails immediately. So, we come to the famous "It hurts when I do that. Well, don't do it then." analogy. "Snails die when I don't do water changes. Well, do more water changes!"

The thing is, I've checked ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, pH, phosphates, calcium, and alk during these times and all were within acceptable levels. So, I'm not really sure what the "no water changes" part could be doing except allowing toxins to build. Strangely, I've never detected any toxins during these times and the snails still die. Whatever it is - it's an illusive killer. Perhaps a phosphate or strange undetectable nitrate spike. I must do water changes weekly to prevent this.

At this point I would never attempt to put any inverts, especially snails, in a tank without RO/DI water. Even delicate fish and coral seem hearty compared to inverts.

Matt

[moze229]

his well water might be fine.

Likely it is - for drinking. If my memory serves me correctly, well water has some of the highest concentrations of metal out there. But to know for sure, a test would be in order.

I remember going to my grandparents house who used to live "out in the country". They had well water running to their farm house. I remember coming in on a hot summer's day and taking a big drink from the well. Nice and cold - and tastes great! But if your used to drinking RO water (as myself as of late), well water brings a very metallic taste. I can taste the metal in well water. Perhaps not copper, but something :) I'm not sure what the effects of others types of metal have on reefs.

Matt

[nanshaw2001]

LFS has a test for copper and I would assume if there is copper there is also probably iron. I f that is the case....can I use bottled spring water or will the ro/di be cheaper? Ya'll have given me some really good info to go on...keep it coming!!!!!!

[discented]

It could very well be stray voltage. If you have any pump/ heaters in your tank then it could very well be leaking stray voltage and if its bad enough snails wont even come out of their shell and die. Try testing your water with a volt meter. (this is likely your issue.) If you test for voltage and their is some then you would want to purchase a grounding probe.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

LFS has a test for copper and I would assume if there is copper there is also probably iron.

If you detect any copper it is too much. If you detect none, it may still be too much. These kits are not very sensitive.

[Skunkbudfour20]

I had the same problems with my inverts dying... turned out it was a pinhole in the cord of my grounding probe (when i used one and didnt know they are a bad idea) that allowed copper wire to be exposed. That and the small amount of electricity basically ate the entire copper cord.

If you are on a well, i can almost guarantee its iron (and maybe copper?) and if you live anywhere near farms, theres a chance you could have fertilizers, pesticides and other crap in your water.

Best idea: take a sample of your well water to the county and have it analyzed... they will give you a break down of EVERYTHING thats in your water, even trace amounts. And if you cant afford that (its fairly cheap where i live), call them and get a copy of an older test... all wells have to be tested at one point.

[FlyinggFish]

I had this problem. Only temporary. I forgot what the problem was. LOL. Just wanted to let you know you're not the only one, I guess.

[Grassroots]

I dont believe phosphates can kill snails but could be wrong. Test your standard things, Ph, Nitrates, Nitrites, and Ammonia. Could there be metals leaching into your well? I would switch to RO water although you an do this slowly. Just switch your water over time when you do water changes. Simple things probably are your culprit in this situation.

If you keep on top of your water changes and dont have extremely calcium demanding corals your CA should be alright.

[bobparker]

brown dusty algae is most likely silica which is in well water<all water>. According to it's density will kill inverts. as your water evaporates the silicate stays and only builds up over time. The longer you run your system on the well water the denser the silicate levels, even with water changes you're still adding more silicate. Even a cheaper Home depot/Lowes brand of water filter will improve the conditions in your tank. If you can afford it do your research and buy a good ro/di system. How long do you plan on being in the hobby? It may be your best investment yet.

[nanshaw2001]

I know nothing about ro/di except I did enquire about it at my lfs yesterday and they no longer sell it. I will test for the stray voltage Sunday. Ho w about the bottled water until I can afford to do something else. We have been hard hit by the recession.....there are little funds if any right now for my addiction!!! Will also contact my county agent Mon to see what a water test is going to run. Will post my findings as we go along. Thanks for everyones help!!!!

[youpey]

distilled water in bottles is usually ok

[Cozmo4]

It will be cheaper in the long run to buy your own RO/DI unit. Check out The Filter Guys web site. I highly recommend them. Great units and great customer service.

[clownfish222]

My hermitcrab ate my ninja and turbo snails. any awnsers why.