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View Full Version : No LR in DT? Is it possible?


iFisch
10/17/2009, 02:13 AM
Is it possible to have most or all of your LR in a sump, and leave the display tank completely free and open for corals to grow and fish to swim?

I was thinking of getting a rimless tank, having it drilled, and have my skimmer and LR in a sump underneath the main tank, with a little PC or cheap white LED stripes for some light.


I thought I saw this a while ago, but never thought of it. Just having some sand, some nice SPS pieces flowing in the middle/back and a variety of frags, and smaller pieces in front.


What do you think?

lordofthereef
10/17/2009, 02:55 AM
Never seen it done but I don't see why not. Might be a little rough on the fish not having hiding spots though. Interesting idea.

iFisch
10/17/2009, 02:59 AM
Never seen it done but I don't see why not. Might be a little rough on the fish not having hiding spots though. Interesting idea.

I plan to flood the DT with large branching SPS to make cover in the middle/back. The only one fish that needs a "spot" is my Firefish who sleeps behind a rock at night.



Has or is anyone doing so? DT with corals/fish and all LR in sump?

Dejavu
10/17/2009, 03:28 AM
you might have a problem with fish fight over hiding spots.

iFisch
10/17/2009, 04:02 AM
you might have a problem with fish fight over hiding spots.

You don't think fish will use coral/coral branches for hiding spots?

I mean in nature, they use both the reef and corals to hide.



My damsel sleeps under a "cave". Pajama roams only the top 1/4 of the tank. I've only seen him grazing when the lights are totally off.

Firefish just needs somewhere to hide when lights go off, really.



And if I DO try this, since there's a bit more flow in the tank, than in a typical sump/fuge, can I just stack rock, or does it need lots nooks and cranny's for flow? For instance, in a given "compartment", can I just fill it with LR, and move on, or do I need a little bit of surface area? We're talking about 10-12lbs of LR here.


Just want to transfer to a rimless tank which is 12g. I think I'm at about 7.5g of "display area", minus the area taken up by the LR (So let's say 5.5g of "actual" swimming/growing area, but with the "sump" etc. the water volume is around 11g). So if I go with the 12g, and just sand, corals and fish, I would essentially be tripling the area for fish to swim and corals to grow. No?

Dejavu
10/17/2009, 04:32 AM
It's just that you would need rather larger corals. What will you do with larger fish. I know that I have minimal rock work in my 270 with only 13 fish now and it is a problem.... mostly at night when they sleep. Tangs, angels, butterfly's or any other fish of size will not adapt to this very easily.

am3gross
10/17/2009, 04:33 AM
sounds good to me... as small of a tank that it is you should not have to many fish in there anyways. i say go for it and show some pics when along the way....

iFisch
10/17/2009, 04:37 AM
sounds good to me... as small of a tank that it is you should not have to many fish in there anyways. i say go for it and show some pics when along the way....

I will get someone local who has a nicer camera to get photo's of the new tank, etc. and will have them come back when I get the SPS wall complete.

I plan on 3, 3" SPS pieces (Acro/Mille), maybe a small 2-3" rainbow brain and 2-4 clams, depending on what I'm left to work with. SPS first, then at least 2 - 2" clams, and if any sandbed room left, I may get a small brain or something. All depends on how big the SPS pieces actually are, inside the tank. I know, technically that's 9", but I'm not sure if 3" = round or high. I will have to e-mail the seller once that time comes around.

Oh, and I plan on 1 - 1,100gph Tunze Nanostream as my powerhead.


Fish - I plan on more exotic/rarer "nano" species. Not sure what I want exactly, but I DO know that I want the rimless tank and exterior sump. I'm happy with what I have now. The other stuff, like what fish I want to replace, etc. are all down the line (months away). I just want to order the tank and get all livestock transferred.


Tank from MD:

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/2870/az111999.jpg

iFisch
10/19/2009, 07:23 AM
^ Looking for some more opinions. :reading:

michael_cb_125
10/19/2009, 07:29 AM
I think that it will work, but you will need to plan on waiting it out with regards to fish. Letting the corals grow in before adding fish, will allow for more hiding spots when you do add fish. I have always been a minimalist when it comes to aquascaping and LR, but you must consider all variables. Yes it creates more swimming room for fish, more growing space for corals, it reduces dead spots, it allows for more water volume in the DT; But it also reduces the available space for fish territories.

As for an exotic nano species, do what I did and get a Lio.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t118/michael_cb_125/SANY0146-1.jpg

~Michael

Charlie Davidson
10/19/2009, 07:34 AM
I remember seeing many japanese tanks, that only had 3-4 tonga branches in them..
Michael, that is a awsome fish!

iFisch
10/19/2009, 07:36 AM
Michael, any pictures of your nano with hidden LR?

luv951
10/19/2009, 08:19 AM
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q309/leonardosreef/Formosa%20Forest/16web.jpg

One of my favorite tanks of all time.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1216333&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

michael_cb_125
10/19/2009, 08:25 AM
The Formosa Forrest is a prime example of what you are wishing to do.

Remember that you will need something for your Corals to adhere to, unless you are going BB.

My current tank does not have hidden LR because of the fish I am keeping (Trio of Multi-colored Angels). But I do have a small amount of Rock at 8lbs in a 20 gallon tank. Basically two spiny branches.

The carmabi is in my other tank (20 gallons with one 6lb rock)

~Michael

iFisch
10/19/2009, 12:59 PM
Remember that you will need something for your Corals to adhere to, unless you are going BB.


~Michael


What's considered a short sandbed (opposite of DSB)? I have to have some sand, it just looks more natural.



So in conclusion, set it up with LR and a little sand, let it do it's thing, wait, add corals, wait, add fish LAST, correct?

100%hydrophylic
10/19/2009, 01:08 PM
what your doing is pretty much opposite of natural to me, so saying that a sandbed is more natural is kinda contradictory. if i were you id do a bare bottom because most sps like high flow, and if your going to have no rocks your going to have to put your sps on the bottom, meaning the power heads are going to be close to the bottom. potentially a perpetual sandstorm.

luther1200
10/19/2009, 02:21 PM
I remember seeing many japanese tanks, that only had 3-4 tonga branches in them..
Michael, that is a awsome fish!

+1, its actually fairly popular in Japan from what I have read.

iFisch
10/19/2009, 02:26 PM
what your doing is pretty much opposite of natural to me, so saying that a sandbed is more natural is kinda contradictory. if i were you id do a bare bottom because most sps like high flow, and if your going to have no rocks your going to have to put your sps on the bottom, meaning the power heads are going to be close to the bottom. potentially a perpetual sandstorm.

That's fine. I just don't like the look of barebottom's. If it can only be done via barebottom, I'll skip the project.


Which is why I asked about a short sandbed, as apposed to a DSB. If 1lb/g would be enough.


I like the look, but that's just too much in corals (value) for me to spend. I want 3 medium sized colonies for the back, and fill in with LPS up front. I was thinking of angling two powerheads in the front corner, towards the back, to hit the SPS and bounce off the back wall providing some lighter flow to the LPS.

His tank is also 10x the size of mine.

iFisch
10/19/2009, 02:30 PM
+1, its actually fairly popular in Japan from what I have read.

Putting 3-4 Tonga branches in the DT?

iFisch
10/19/2009, 02:32 PM
what your doing is pretty much opposite of natural to me, so saying that a sandbed is more natural is kinda contradictory. if i were you id do a bare bottom because most sps like high flow, and if your going to have no rocks your going to have to put your sps on the bottom, meaning the power heads are going to be close to the bottom. potentially a perpetual sandstorm.


I'm also at 800gph in my 14, without the slightest sandstorm. Return exchanges gases and the other is about 50% of the way down, cornered, and hitting almost all spots in the tank.

luther1200
10/19/2009, 02:36 PM
Putting 3-4 Tonga branches in the DT?

LOL, no I should have been more clear. That they use little to no LR in the DT is what I meant.

100%hydrophylic
10/19/2009, 05:11 PM
oh ok, well if you can angle it right then by all means try putting a sand bed in. i had sandstorm problems forever in my med flow mixed reef, so i thought i should bring up the problem so you were forewarned. you could always do a more coarse grain sand. what size tank is this going to be?

BLKTANG
10/19/2009, 05:15 PM
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q309/leonardosreef/Formosa%20Forest/16web.jpg

One of my favorite tanks of all time.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1216333&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

ty for posting this i rember this.He also had a RDSB along with a fuge.I even remember what he was dosing.:frog:

wooden_reefer
10/19/2009, 05:24 PM
I don't see the point.

The rock gives a tank its appearance.

Also, rock is what gives fish hidding places. Free swimming room is one thing, but so are hidding places. You will generally have less incompatibility problem with fish if there are lots of hiding places.

michael_cb_125
10/19/2009, 07:46 PM
I don't see the point.

The rock gives a tank its appearance.


Once corals grow in the rock is no longer visible. What iFisch is trying to do is do away with the rock which will in turn provide more water for the growth of the corals, personally I like the idea.


iFisch- Since you want sand, but need a solid surface to adhere corals to, you could always epoxy sand to the bottom. This would give you the solid surface you need while still keeping the natural sandy appearance you desire. :)

~Michael

luther1200
10/19/2009, 08:01 PM
I say go for it also.

michael_cb_125
10/19/2009, 08:03 PM
iFisch- you are getting quite a few "go for it"s.

So hurry up and do-it already, I want to see a few pictures. I can live vicariously through you. ;)

michael_cb_125
10/19/2009, 08:09 PM
I will help ;)

http://www.adgshop.com/v/vspfiles/photos/102-8522-2.jpg
+
http://akamai.f3images.com/IMD/600/EM1123/EM1123_99.jpg
+
http://www.reefgeek.com/reefgeek/7430/powermodule_2_web.jpg
+
http://akamai.f3images.com/IMD/600/VX1113/VX1113_99.jpg
+
No Rock
+
Epoxy Sand Base
=

Sweetness

~Michael

iFisch
10/19/2009, 11:01 PM
I don't see the point.

The rock gives a tank its appearance.

Also, rock is what gives fish hidding places. Free swimming room is one thing, but so are hidding places. You will generally have less incompatibility problem with fish if there are lots of hiding places.

When you see 2+ year old tanks, LR is rarely seen. Corals are just covered and take over the tank. I am thinking of skipping this.

iFisch
10/19/2009, 11:03 PM
iFisch- you are getting quite a few "go for it"s.

So hurry up and do-it already, I want to see a few pictures. I can live vicariously through you. ;)


Not sure what to do now. A larger, FOWLR and exotic fish. Or a 1/3 smaller tank with SPS and LPS. Hmm... I'm finding out more info on the larger FOWLR and will make my decision in about 1 week or so.

Znut Reefer
10/20/2009, 01:13 AM
I have a friend that had a sps tank. He was having some algae issues. So he pulled all his rock out to cook it. He put all his corals on eggcrate. He noticed his acros were getting very light in color. So he had to put the rock back in after 1 month. Tank had a shallow sand bed. And plenty of fish.

So it may or may not work going without any rock. If you can keep the corals happy then you should be fine.

iFisch
10/20/2009, 01:14 AM
Thanks.