do you QT?

[vickreyreef]

I am interested to see how many people use a QT. I would love to see comments as what you put in it and for how long.

[reefergeorge]

I didn't QT my first two fish, and they got the good old white spots. I didn't treat for it, but every once in a while for a year I would see a few spots here and there.
Since then I QT every fish I buy for 6 weeks. For four weeks of that, I have the sg at 1.009. If I buy a predator such as a trigger or puffer I also treat them with prazi-pro in case or IP.

It is a pain, but my fish are pets to me, and I don't like killing them because of laziness.

[billsreef]

I QT all the time. The old adage, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" holds very true in regards to what happens when you don't QT ;)

IMO, a QT period should be a minimum of 4 weeks, ideally 6 to 8 weeks. A QT set up does not need to be elaborate or expensive. Sponge filters or biowheel filters work very well for biological filtration, the sponge or biowheel can be kept in the sump of your display in between uses to stay biologically active ;) Decor should be simple plastic type items, fake corals are good if you want to look good, otherwise simple PVC pipe scraps and fittings are more than adequate to provide the fish cover. The idea is to keep it easily cleanable and not have anything in the tank that might react with medications if needed.

[Playa-1]

Do yourself and your livestock a HUGE favor and QT all new arrivals. It only takes one unlucky break to wipe out your tank in a matter of a few days. Not to mention the great expense, time and effort it takes to rid a stocked DT and any survivors of a disease or parasite. Failure to QT is like playing Russian Roulette with your live stocks lives, or having unprotected sex with strangers. Some people get away with it longer then others but the consequences can and likely will be ugly one day if you keep dancing with death :)

A proper acclimation and QT program will likely prevent to future nightmare and many unexplained deaths in your DT. A simple QT set up can be a 20gallon tank or container. A seeded sponge filter, heater, thermometer, ammonia indicator and a few pieces pvc for shelter. I picked mine up used locally for $50

[vickreyreef]

great advice guys...
do you need a light set up for a QT as well?

[vickreyreef]

for those that AREN'T QTing do you have a reason as well?

[Playa-1]

I have a light that came with the tank but it's not necessary. Some people QT corals too so in that case special lighting may be required.

[ddinox64]

No QTing for me, and I add the water that they come in too. After drip acclimating for and hour or so. That water might as well be my water. To each their own.

[billsreef]

great advice guys...
do you need a light set up for a QT as well?

For fish and non photosynthetic inverts normal average Joe type fish tank lighting is more than sufficient. If it's in a well lit room, you might not even need light. Basically, just enough light for the fish to behave normally ;) If your QT'ing corals, than you need proper lighting for the coral.

[iFisch]

Very heated/opinionated/subjective subject.

[vickreyreef]

iFisch~ i certainly am not trying to start any drama and had no idea it was that kind of issue...I rarely add fish to my tank since all the ones I added over 3 years ago are fat and happy, but I lost my bi-color blennie and just wanted to replace it. My LFS rarely gets midas blennies and I had to order a fish online for the very first time and am not sure how comfortable I am with it, however it is arriving on Tuesday and I was trying to get a feel for if I should set up a quick QT tank or if it wasn't completely necessary or what popular opinion was.

[iFisch]

iFisch~ i certainly am not trying to start any drama and had no idea it was that kind of issue...I rarely add fish to my tank since all the ones I added over 3 years ago are fat and happy, but I lost my bi-color blennie and just wanted to replace it. My LFS rarely gets midas blennies and I had to order a fish online for the very first time and am not sure how comfortable I am with it, however it is arriving on Tuesday and I was trying to get a feel for if I should set up a quick QT tank or if it wasn't completely necessary or what popular opinion was.

Extremely popular topic. About once a month or so, there's a big thread on this topic.

Lot's of people practice it for ANYTHING, lots of people just acclimate and add, and some who QT depending on what it is, etc.

[bobparker]

i dont but i am strongly considering seance i've recently upgraded. too many horror stories

[Playa-1]

Keep in mind that many people like me have learned the lesson the hard way. I would never introduce another fish into my DT without QT first. You can learn from our mistakes or you can re-live them yourself. I always cringe when I hear somebody encouraging others to skip the QT process. ICH is almost a given and there's some much nastier diseases out there that are just as easily introduced into your tank.

[iFisch]

Keep in mind that many people like me have learned the lesson the hard way. I would never introduce another fish into my DT without QT first. You can learn from our mistakes or you can re-live them yourself. I always cringe when I hear somebody encouraging others to skip the QT process. ICH is almost a given and there's some much nastier diseases out there that are just as easily introduced into your tank.

You also have to remember most of these fish are traveling thousands of miles as well. A decent amount won't even make it from the oceans to here - that depends on how they were captured, and the care taken by the collector.

Some people QT, but don't QT for long enough. Fairly common. People's opinion on this is just so mixed.

[ludnix]

A proper acclimation and QT program will likely prevent to future nightmare and many unexplained deaths in your DT. A simple QT set up can be a 20gallon tank or container. A seeded sponge filter, heater, thermometer, ammonia indicator and a few pieces pvc for shelter. I picked mine up used locally for $50

Keep in mind that a 20g is only going to work for certain sized fish. I would not quarantine a yellow tang in a 20g for the 6-8 weeks. Your quarantine should be big enough to prevent the fish from getting stressed which can make fighting off a disease much more difficult.

[reefergeorge]

I QTed my sailfin in a 20 long. He was only around 3" at the time, but was in an even smaller tank at the lfs.

And IMO, or lack of facts. A little stress will bring out all those underlying diseases, and parasites so we can treat them before its a problem.

[billsreef]

I wouldn't suggest using popular opinion for a decision, your better off going with informed opinion ;)

Something to consider, professional aquarists are firm believers in QT'ing. Large public aquariums and aquaculture facilities would not waste the time, space, and money on QT'ing new acquisitions if wasn't overwhelmingly beneficial.

[ludnix]

I QTed my sailfin in a 20 long. He was only around 3" at the time, but was in an even smaller tank at the lfs.

And IMO, or lack of facts. A little stress will bring out all those underlying diseases, and parasites so we can treat them before its a problem.

I think this is going to cause a lot more harm than good. Putting a fish into a bad situation to make them more susceptible to any potential parasites or diseases doesn't make any sense.

[MazdaSPD3]

I would QT but simply dont have the space and time to monitor closely. I just pick the healthiest specimen I can find (and if I don't I skip on them, until a good one does show up) and hope for the best.

If one day I have a huge house where I can build a fish room, my current DT will become my QT and my new DT will be HUGE! One can only wish right?

[Playa-1]

All my fish have gone thru the 20gal QT with flying colors. If I were purchasing larger fish then I would get a larger QT. I usually get my fish when they are on the smaller side. I even put my diamond goby thru the QT. I put some DT sand in a bowl and it did great. After a while he started moving the sand out of the bowl and made himself a bunker with the pvc. IMO there's less stress in a properly managed QT then in a fully stocked DT. The fish is already stressed out enough as it is. Don't forget about the stress that you're going to create when you unleash a nasty disease in the DT. The stress involved with a QT is nothing compared to that.

[NexDog]

Wow, shocked at the results so far....

[RLHornbeck]

I personally do not as of right now. I have a relatively new tank and not that much in it yet. I do however plan on adding a quarantine tank in the near future. I am just not sure if I am going to make it for fish only or corals also, as doing corals will make for a more expensive set up. I would be curious as to a more in depth poling to the effect of :
Does Not Quarantine
Quarantines fish only
Quarantines fish and corals

[billsreef]

Just take a look at how many people are trying to isolate sick fish from a display tank for treatment, or looking for the so far non existent holy grail of a reef safe ich treatment. Those are the folks that don't QT ;) Those of us that do practice QT don't need to treat our displays for disease or try and catch sick fish out of a reef tank :)

The more interesting poll would be of those that don't QT, as to why. Based on many years worth of these discussions, I think you'll find the overwhelming majority skip QT for reasons that are wholly based on personal convenience and not on fish health ;)

[am3gross]

i dont, the way i see it is like this...

i am sure the fish are stressed, from either being in small baggies from shipping, or being in a small tank waiting to be bought, or what ever stressful situation they are coming from. my tank is a 210 gallon tank that has plenty of hiding spaces where they can go to calm down. i soak all my food in garlic (strenghtens immune system)...

now i am by no means saying this is the way to do it. this is how I do it. qt is important depending on where the fish is going... if you were to put the fish back in the ocean would you qt first?

[techster]

at least 6 weeks

[NexDog]

if you were to put the fish back in the ocean would you qt first?
So you're equating a glass box with its naturally stressful environment to the ocean?

A display tank might be more natural looking than a bare QT but natural it is not. Yes, QT can be hard on teh fish and so many things can go wrong when medicating, or with hypo, or with maintaing water quality. But none of these things are insurmountable. I think it takes a real pro aquarist to endure QT and truly embrace it. The care level fish need in QT is not "sprinkle in some flake once a day and change water once a month". It takes a lot of dedication, time, energy and it can still all go wrong. I have a mthod now that if I stick to it by the letter the fish have a very good chance of getting through and they'll be healthy, fat and used to other fish and humans.

But I still learn new things like for instance in a recent QT cycle PraziPro hit a Potters Angel real hard and killed it. I followed the dosage to the tee yet it happened. So now I know to freshwater dip all fish before they even hit the QT to knock off some flukes so some fish don't bleed to death when being hit with Prazi and all flukes get knocked off. That Potters might have been fine had I put it in the DT. Or it might have intimidated by the other 20 fish including other pygmy angels and died anyway. Or it might have passed on the flukes to another fish.

I think most people don't QT because they don't have teh space for it, are impatient to see that new fish in their DT, don't want to maintain another tank and don't want the hassles of daily siphoning, regular salinity checks, copper checks, medicating etc.

All I know is that my DT fish are super hardy. Have gone through 3-4 months without a water change, temp spikes to 87F/30C and a major re-aquascape this year which made the water look like chicken soup for days. How often do you hear of a stressful situation causing fish losses or disease outbreaks? Something super-stressful will happen in your tank guaranteed and keeping fish pathogen free could often be the difference of life or death. That is why I QT even though I've had painful failures. At least those failures aren't coming from my prized DT fish. :)

[Kieth71]

I agree 100% with nexdog.Imo qt is not an option but something that should be done by everyone.Its not easy and takes time and maybe some failures to get right.Once you get a good qt regiment down it becomes easy and makes your life so much easier not having to worry about infecting your display tank with unwanted pests and also getting your new fish eating well and aclimated to life in an aquarium.

[Playa-1]

if you were to put the fish back in the ocean would you qt first?
Based on your QT practices, If it came from your tank, then it would be a good idea to qt if first before you moved it anywhere.

[tranto1]

i don't QT, i use too. I just leave it at the local LFS for a few days to see how it's doing before i take it home.

[akando]

Hmm, maybe a QT tank will be a good idea after all.

[am3gross]

what are the sizes of your tanks. i dont go buy a tang and come home and stick it in a 10 gallon tank.... i do research my fish. if they are prone to ick then most of the time i will not get them. truth of the matter is i only get fish from one source. qt is important for some people. like i said im not sticking fish that needs alot of room in a small tank neither do i stick them in a tank where they will tangle with other fish. stress is the number 1 cause of ick. take the stress away and make there immune system mgreated and you will have success. like i said these are my practices.... they are not recommended by most, but they are mine. my fish have been healthy and always will be. i know this will get into a big flame contest so i am done saying anymore.

[billsreef]

stress is the number 1 cause of ick. take the stress away and make there immune system mgreated and you will have success.

Nope. The one and only cause of ich is the ciliated protozoan Cryptocaryon irritans. Stress is not required for a fish to get infected with it, though stress can hasten an outbreak. The only thing required for fish to get ich, velvet, flukes, or any other parasite is the presence of that parasite. These parasites are fairly common in wild caught fish, after all it's on those fish that those parasites find their way into our tanks ;) Just observing the fish at the LFS is akin to playing Russian Roulette, sooner or later the hammer will fall on that loaded chamber. Might not be the first time, might not be the 100th time, but it will happen.

[NexDog]

My QT is a 50g that I keep running 24/7.

[stump1998]

I am in between. I don't go the full 6 to 8 weeks unless I see something wrong with them. I get them eating real good and they go in the DT. Most of the time aroung the 2 week mark.

[Aquarist007]

Nope. The one and only cause of ich is the ciliated protozoan Cryptocaryon irritans. Stress is not required for a fish to get infected with it, though stress can hasten an outbreak. The only thing required for fish to get ich, velvet, flukes, or any other parasite is the presence of that parasite. These parasites are fairly common in wild caught fish, after all it's on those fish that those parasites find their way into our tanks ;) Just observing the fish at the LFS is akin to playing Russian Roulette, sooner or later the hammer will fall on that loaded chamber. Might not be the first time, might not be the 100th time, but it will happen.

good post. I qt all fish for a couple of weeks ===if anything it helps reduce the stress on them, helps you get them to eat properly and allows you to treat them if needed without further stress of trying to get them out of the reef tank.
I also isolate live rock and corals for a couple of weeks in a fishless environment just to make sure they are not carrying the second stage of ich which removes itself from the fish.

[NexDog]

capn - none of your proceedures guarantees to remove the crypto pathogen. New LR could have tormonts and they can take up to 28 days to hatch. But most LR collectors probably have the LR lying around lionger than that in a fishless environment.

I do hypo for just over 5 weeks. This covers the infected stage (trophont) for a week and 3 weeks for the tormonts. However, hypo is supposed to kill the tormonts and from what I observed hypo kills invertebrate life at around the 2 week mark so theoretically 3 weeks hypo is enough. But no harm in being thorough. :)

[Aquarist007]

capn - none of your proceedures guarantees to remove the crypto pathogen. New LR could have tormonts and they can take up to 28 days to hatch. But most LR collectors probably have the LR lying around lionger than that in a fishless environment.

I do hypo for just over 5 weeks. This covers the infected stage (trophont) for a week and 3 weeks for the tormonts. However, hypo is supposed to kill the tormonts and from what I observed hypo kills invertebrate life at around the 2 week mark so theoretically 3 weeks hypo is enough. But no harm in being thorough. :)


you are right--nothing guarantees the removal of ich. However it sure reduces the chances of it being fatal to fish compared to not gt'ing at all.
As does feeding fish a balanced and healthy diet which builds up the immunity system over time. Again no guarantee the fish won't get ich but a good chance they will be able to fight it off before it is fatal.

BTW the commonly stated norm on here for safely burning out the tormont stage is 12-14 days fishless.

[Chihuahua6]

I quarantine all of my fish for a minimum of five weeks. I also treat all of them for flukes and worms with Prazipro.

I quarantine first and foremost to protect the fish I already own. I would never risk the lives of my fish for one I just aquired. Larger fish get quarantined in a 55 gallon tank and smaller fish go into a 30 gallon.

[iFisch]

i soak all my food in garlic (strenghtens immune system)...




This does nothing. Factually.

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27158

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=294728#post294728


"garlic has no proven medicinal benefits for fish immune systems, it is strictly a diet stimulant it may help by keeping your fish eating when it may wish to stop eating due to stress or disease"


Finally, for those interested in QT'ing, I'd take a look at this:


http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27022

[iFisch]

Wow, shocked at the results so far....

I'm not, quite honestly. This has been discussed before, and this is the usual, typical results.

Some don't even know what QT is. Second, some don't even know how to QT, and third, some don't even know proper techniques for QT. Forth, you need to identify and be able to treat the "cause". You need to know all four to be successful.

I have nothing to QT. My fish are tiny. If I were buying something labeled as "expert only", is a poor shipper, etc. Most certainly would I do it. I may change my mind if I had a 75g+ as well.

[muttley000]

Interesting that such a high percentage of people don't use QT. Also interesting that so many that don't take the time to use QT didn't take the time to post a reason...

[iFisch]

Interesting that such a high percentage of people don't use QT. Also interesting that so many that don't take the time to use QT didn't take the time to post a reason...


I already posted my reasoning, and when I would QT.

[Aquarist007]

This does nothing. Factually.

"garlic has no proven medicinal benefits for fish immune systems, it is strictly a diet stimulant it may help by keeping your fish eating when it may wish to stop eating due to stress or disease"



IMO the fact that it enduces fish to eat may indirectly be building their immune systems and helping them recover from an outbreak of ich---the garlic getting the credit when it is really an improved immune system due to healthy eating

[iFisch]

the fact that it enduces fish to eat may indirectly be building their immune systems


Again, nothing factually.

[Aquarist007]

Interesting that such a high percentage of people don't use QT. Also interesting that so many that don't take the time to use QT didn't take the time to post a reason...

careful with drawing conclusion here---there are over 200,000 reefers on here---100 or so of them have voted and or reported.

The topic of quarantining fish is a long debated subject on RC and I doubt there ever will be any consensus.
Personal experiences with dealing with an ich problem tend to mold one's opinion on quarantining or not

[Almondsaz]

A QT is a must for saltwater aquarium systems IMO, for both fish and corals. That being said - I have one exception and that is for Leopard Wrasses. I don't QT them becuase they stress very easily and are delicate shippers. I acclimate them and put them direct into the QT. All other fish and corals get a stop in the QT.

[jason2459]

I believe that every fish should be put in a QT before adding to the DT. However, I do not practice what I preach. I definitely should and believe I should but I don't.

Reasons I don't:
I've already spent 150% of my budget on my main tank already and don't have the budget to get another qt tank setup.

I'm already completely squeezed for space in my cracker box sized home. Don't have the room for a QT setup.

I try and buy from trusted sources.

I certainly watch for any problems and if I had to I could pull out the live stock and I have someone that can QT for me in a pinch.

Actually, for the first time just had an issue with an unhealthy fish, flame angel. Started with fluke, then HLLE and then ich. I treated the main tank with Prazipro till the fluke was gone. Then treated with melafix and pimafix and the HLLE is going away currently. The ich I believe was allowed to take hold by the stress of the diseases but I didn't over react and pull right away. Two days later all signs of ich was gone. I do know that ich is present but being held back. I always assume ich is present and always watch out for it. I used to have a yellow tang before that would get a one day out break every other month.

[RBU1]

i dont, the way i see it is like this...

i am sure the fish are stressed, from either being in small baggies from shipping, or being in a small tank waiting to be bought, or what ever stressful situation they are coming from. my tank is a 210 gallon tank that has plenty of hiding spaces where they can go to calm down. i soak all my food in garlic (strenghtens immune system)...

now i am by no means saying this is the way to do it. this is how I do it. qt is important depending on where the fish is going... if you were to put the fish back in the ocean would you qt first?

Man i this a twisted answer.....

OK so you have been lucky. All it takes is one disease to make it to your tank and kiss all your fish goodbye...Trust me I have been through it twice now....and lost some really nice fish the I liked a great deal.

HUM.....How big is your tank...210...Far cry from the ocean my friend. Fish can swim away from ich in the ocean they sure can't in your 210.

Trust me like I said I have a 300 and lost fish twice. I will not put another fish in my tank that has not been treated...

[wooden_reefer]

I always always QT any source of livestock or water for at least eight weeks.

I have not thought of otherwise for over twenty five years.

It is a matter of instinct and ingrained routine.

[ddinox64]

Ifisch. You are correct. This subject is highly debatable.

My tank has been up for almost a year now with currently five fish. Three of which are original. Two from June. I have lost three fish due to a crab, not any illnesses. Crab has since been moved to sump. And fish have stopped disappearing.

To say those that don't QT are wreckless or wrong is just ignorant. Many many people have kept fish just fine for many years without QTing. And if you think I'm wrong. Next time you're driving and jabber jawwing while doing so. Reflect on this.

[RBU1]

Ifisch. You are correct. This subject is highly debatable.

My tank has been up for almost a year now with currently five fish. Three of which are original. Two from June. I have lost three fish due to a crab, not any illnesses. Crab has since been moved to sump. And fish have stopped disappearing.

To say those that don't QT are wreckless or wrong is just ignorant. Many many people have kept fish just fine for many years without QTing. And if you think I'm wrong. Next time you're driving and jabber jawwing while doing so. Reflect on this.


I guess you have been lucky so far......Your time will come. And please make sure you post that your fish now have ich and are dieing....

[Playa-1]

[Bites virtual tongue] :lol:

[richgoose]

i don't QT, it's difficult when you only have a nano in a small area.

[jenglish]

Ifisch. You are correct. This subject is highly debatable.

My tank has been up for almost a year now with currently five fish. Three of which are original. Two from June. I have lost three fish due to a crab, not any illnesses. Crab has since been moved to sump. And fish have stopped disappearing.

To say those that don't QT are wreckless or wrong is just ignorant. Many many people have kept fish just fine for many years without QTing. And if you think I'm wrong. Next time you're driving and jabber jawwing while doing so. Reflect on this.

I know there are many who don't QT, but the vast majority of them don't because they don't feel like putting forth the effort rather than because they don't think it is better. I used to ride without a helmut and have drove without my seatbelt... but not because I think that is the smarter option but sometimes I would just be... well, reckless.

[Aquarist007]

[Bites virtual tongue] :lol:

I think the thread did really well lasting for three pages without someone getting a little hot:blown:

[iFisch]

I would be curious as to a more in depth poling to the effect of :
Does Not Quarantine
Quarantines fish only
Quarantines fish and corals

A real poll would include the following, IMO.


Doesn't QT at ALL
Doesn't QT at all because buys from reputable sources with guarantee's
QT's certain fish
QT's all fish
QT's certain fish and certain coral
QT's all fish and all coral


That would cover everything.

[iFisch]

but the vast majority of them don't because they don't feel like putting forth the effort rather than because they don't think it is better.


Not IMO. I believe a vast majority don't know how to do it properly. I STILL don't know how to properly QT. There's just SOO many opinions on what's best, what method to use, what size tank to use, what to look for etc. etc. I'm more confused now, than when I was before I knew what QT'ing was.

I do however QT all corals.

Additionally, there's a certain LFS here that QT's all fish, and will QT fish for you at an expense. Treating for ich, or whatever.

There's just no concrete evidence on how to do it properly, I don't. You say one way is correct, the next guy disagrees. The next guy disagrees and the next one agrees to an extent. Until there is concrete procedures for knowing what to treat for, how to treat for, etc. I will continue to pay to have the LFS QT any fish.

Yes, they stock all the QT medicine and know what they're doing. I trust them. Plus, no 30g tank, etc. etc. Just drop off, pay, pick up in approximately two months. Very simple, and I'm sure they make a good portion of money from it.

[scaryperson27]

I work at a fish store, so I only bring home what has been there for a couple of weeks. I also keep prepared to do a treatment to the display if necessary.

[jenglish]

Yes, they stock all the QT medicine and know what they're doing. I trust them. Plus, no 30g tank, etc. etc. Just drop off, pay, pick up in approximately two months. Very simple, and I'm sure they make a good portion of money from it.

Paying someone to QT is still an endorsement for QT procedures... just paying someone else to do it and putting faith that they know what they are doing and are actually doing it. If you surveyed LFS you would probably find no more consensus than you do asking here. It is unltimately always just someone's opinion on what makes for good QT. I prefer to do my own rather than pay someone in hopes they know as much or more than I do. You may be paying for nothing.

[wooden_reefer]

I don't believe the subject of QT is debatable in general, except in a few circumstances.

Lets say you have a tank with even mix of inverts and fish, and you have stocked all but the last fish. In this case, putting the last fish (from any commercial source) in DT without QT is just insane. This is the extremely case in practicality. It is reckless disregard for the well-being of all those that are already stocked.

The first fish you put it is DT is a little less critical. The price of error is less daunting.

QT has always been not difficult for me, though I won't go so far as to say it is easy. I have a well-tried out routine for QT that works well. All it takes is patience; very little actual work is required. Adhering to rigorous QT is easy for me.

It slowly emerges why so many people regard QT in general as stressful. I think may be the number one reason is that many still do not cycle the medium for QT, not very well or not at all. People still have questions about hypo and copper on nutrification, for example.

People also place too much weight on water quality and nutrition that is suggested to promote immunity, and not enough weight on the confinement, the absentce of the dilution effect of the ocean, of the tank.

External bacterial infection result from the lack of previous exposure and concentration of patheogenic bacteria in the confinement of the tank.

And for ich, the confinement factor is even more dominant than for external bacterial infection.

[Toddrtrex]

The only time I have QTed was for a pair of WC clowns, just to make sure they didn't have Brook, and as luck would have it they didn't.

Other then that I haven't QTed, and have never had a tank wipe out; haven't seen any ick on my fish in about 10 years and have maybe lost 2 fish to it.

Not suggesting that other people skip QTing, but not QTing has worked for me (( been in the hobby since 1992 )). I personally believe that fish do better in a mature tank and settle in sooner.

[wooden_reefer]

I personally believe that fish do better in a mature tank and settle in sooner.

What do you mean by a mature tank?

[Toddrtrex]

What do you mean by a mature tank?

One that has been up and running for a while -- 6 months or so -- at least for more delicate fish, with a good deal of live rock to provide food for the fish while they are adjusting to prepared food.

[wooden_reefer]

One that has been up and running for a while -- 6 months or so -- at least for more delicate fish, with a good deal of live rock to provide food for the fish while they are adjusting to prepared food.

What is so magical about six months?

What have happened in those six months that make the tank much better for a fish than a tank that is only one month old?

------------------

Some fish will not eat well soon in a small tank. This is a valid point. But there are plenty that will to choose from.

[Toddrtrex]

What is so magical about six months?

What have happened in those six months that make the tank much better for a fish than a tank that is only one month old?

------------------

Some fish will not eat well soon in a small tank. This is a valid point. But there are plenty that will to choose from.

6 isn't a hard and fast time frame, but I knew that you would have asked how long if I had only said "a while". It is more of a feel thing, but there will be more life on the rocks after 6 months then there will be after 1.

I was taking about myself, the last fish I bought was a Potter's dwarf angel, which are known for being difficult to get onto prepared foods.

[wooden_reefer]

6 isn't a hard and fast time frame, but I knew that you would have asked how long if I had only said "a while". It is more of a feel thing, but there will be more life on the rocks after 6 months then there will be after 1.

I was taking about myself, the last fish I bought was a Potter's dwarf angel, which are known for being difficult to get onto prepared foods.

Actually, you do have a point in saying that some fish need algae on the wall or live rock to pick on to do well. But many do not. Stocking fish that don't eat well soon is a special challenge. In this case, I would isolate in QT and delay active treatment. I can transfer LR into QT to let the fish pick on it. Otherwise, doing without QT is the tail wagging the dog.

There is nothing magical about six months, as far as microbial balance that is essential to fish is concerned. Fish in QT need nitrification, not denitrfication or other microbial balance. Nitrate is pretty much harmless to fish except at really high concentration.

Immediately after cycling, using the seed and waste method, medium for QT can handle many many fish all at once. A fish does not know if the tank is "mature" as long as its needs are met.

[jayk198030]

am3gross......... i agree with most of what you say but the fish are usually sick from strees and the LFS's other sick fish. having hiding places doesnt cure illness.

i have lost to many fish not to QT them. I quartine for 6 weeks.

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt314/jayk198030/Fish%20Stuff/Picture055.jpg

[iFisch]

Paying someone to QT is still an endorsement for QT procedures... just paying someone else to do it and putting faith that they know what they are doing and are actually doing it. If you surveyed LFS you would probably find no more consensus than you do asking here. It is unltimately always just someone's opinion on what makes for good QT. I prefer to do my own rather than pay someone in hopes they know as much or more than I do. You may be paying for nothing.

No comment. You have no idea on their procedures, or their knowledge. Trust me, 100% (or my life on it) they have more experience doing this than you. You can think what you want. They provide a service, just like many other service businesses. They do not rush anything, nor do they say come pick the fish @ so and so. They have a variety of tanks from 10g to 60g. When the treatment is complete, the fish eating (they only provide the finest foods), they release it back to the owner. They actually CARE for the customer, unlike many places, which is common.


Oh well.

[jenglish]

No comment. You have no idea on their procedures, or their knowledge. Trust me, 100% (or my life on it) they have more experience doing this than you. You can think what you want. They provide a service, just like many other service businesses. They do not rush anything, nor do they say come pick the fish @ so and so. They have a variety of tanks from 10g to 60g. When the treatment is complete, the fish eating (they only provide the finest foods), they release it back to the owner. They actually CARE for the customer, unlike many places, which is common.




Oh well.


I'm not being argumentative here, I am merely saying paying someone to QT is not the same as saying you don't QT or that it is not worthwile. I never stated they did not know how to QT as I don't know what there procedures are. But it doesn't seem that they do either. There are some very knowledgeable people at LFS, but there are plenty that do not know squat either. How do you know how much they know or I know without asking what their procedures are? I would not bet my life on any LFS unless I knew at least enough to form an opinon of what they do. Some of the people posting thier opinions on some of the QT debates on here likely have more expereince than your LFS. There are some experts who post on these forums. I am not an expert, but assuming your LFS must know more than anyone on these forums may not be wise.

[ddinox64]

ifisch. It's a no win situation. Everyone is a pro, yet very few are working in a fishstore.

Just as the person that posted they have a nano(12g), because maybe they rent only a room from someone or that's all they wanted. Some would suggest they get out of the hobby because they don't Quarantine.

And those that are positive that those that don't quarantine, their tanks are going to fail. Hogwash. Again. Millions of people everyday around the world are adding things to their tanks without ill effects. And no, not everyone of those tanks is going to have a major fish die off.

Everyone loses a fish now and then. Even those that quarantine and if they say they don't they're liars. For if that were the case they'd never be able to add another fish to their display for they'd run out of room because all their fish would be centuries old.

Funny how they call those that don't QT lucky and not smart. Maybe we just have better and more stable setups that our inhabitants do better. Who knows? No one does. That's why there are so many opinionated ideas in this hobby and different approaches. You like Ketchup. I like Catsup. As I stated in my OP. To each their own.

[iFisch]

I'm not being argumentative here, I am merely saying paying someone to QT is not the same as saying you don't QT or that it is not worthwile. I never stated they did not know how to QT as I don't know what there procedures are. But it doesn't seem that they do either. There are some very knowledgeable people at LFS, but there are plenty that do not know squat either. How do you know how much they know or I know without asking what their procedures are? I would not bet my life on any LFS unless I knew at least enough to form an opinon of what they do. Some of the people posting thier opinions on some of the QT debates on here likely have more expereince than your LFS. There are some experts who post on these forums. I am not an expert, but assuming your LFS must know more than anyone on these forums may not be wise.


Ok. QT'ing, and not doing it properly, is just the same as adding it directly to the DT, essentially.

QT'ing, and NOT knowing what the disease, parasite, etc. ARE, and how to fix the problem, nullifies the time and money to setup one.

So, why not put my trust into someone (actually two owners) who have nearly 30 years in this hobby and almost 5, QT'ing for customers. They have done thousands of fish. They obviously must be doing something right, when there's nearly always a waiting list. Furthermore, they have very good connections and can get you almost any fish you want, and QT it there. When your time comes, pick it up, acclimate and you're good to go. This is not a LFS that sells stuff. They sell fish, coral and their service. No bulbs, tanks, dosing products, etc. They are a very specialized company. I would bet my life, because I'm obviously betting my fishes life, that if anything happens, I can trust their knowledge and experience to fix it. I think of them as a Doctor. Some Doctors have more knowledge and experience than others. This just happens to be some of the most knowledgeable people about fish, that I know.

[billsreef]

For if that were the case they'd never be able to add another fish to their display for they'd run out of room because all their fish would be centuries old.

Some of us do run out of room in our DT's and need to set up more tanks in order to get more fish ;)

[jenglish]

I can respect that Ifisch.

FWIW, I can that there are certain specimens that QT is not a viable option in most setups. I have a goby/pistol combo that I have in "observational QT" with sand and rock. Some would say this is not a QT at all. To me it is observing a pair I would rather not split in a natural enviroment before putting them in my DT. Is it as safe as removing the goby and treating pre-emptively? no, but it is a calculated risk on my behalf.

[iFisch]

I can respect that Ifisch.



Thank you.

I care to educate myself in other areas. Fish diseases and treatment is not one of them. If this store wasn't around, I'd have someone in my reef club help me out. Many QT, because many have 200+g setups, and can't risk it, because there's already so much money invested into the tank.

[sminker]

is this thread a conversation, debate, or an all out non-QT'er bashing? i cant tell....
:confused:

what works for some might not work for others and vice-versa. lets try to remember that in some of these responses.

someone commented earlier about why none of the people that voted for (Dont QT) never post a response, would you post a response with all this negativity and single minded "my way is the only way" mentalities in this thread?

[iFisch]

is this thread a conversation, debate, or an all out non-QT'er bashing? i cant tell....
:confused:



Not sure. A bit of everything, I guess. That's why these threads always get heated.

It's worse than T5 or MH threads.

[sminker]

not sure. A bit of everything, i guess. That's why these threads always get heated.

It's worse than t5 or mh threads.

t5... :)

[Pimps]

This thread makes my newbie head spin :rollface:

[iFisch]

t5... :)

AI - LED FWIW. :bounce3:

[Aquarist007]

Not sure. A bit of everything, I guess. That's why these threads always get heated.

It's worse than T5 or MH threads.

or why can't I have a naso tang in a 30gal?:rollface:

[jenglish]

I have ich in my ATS/DSB system and wondered if garlic and ich attack would effect the high levels of acidity I am using to test ocean acidification :rollface:





This thread has actually been much more civil than most QT threads :lol:

[iFisch]

or why can't I have a naso tang in a 30gal?:rollface:



:fun4:

[iFisch]

This thread has actually been much more civil than most QT threads :lol:


It has. Aside from our little "skirmish", it's been well. :bounce3:

[ddinox64]

Again. To each their own.

Pimps. You do what is the best of your capabilities, and apply lessons you learn here in these forums that work for those that tend to follow or lead to what you are trying to achieve.

In this thread some would have you believe that nonQTers do nothing but dump their fish in their display. Although there very well may be those, most aren't. We take the time to acclimate our new charges in order that they may become a healthy part of our hobby.

So garner from everyone what they're doing, and notice that many are doing great things with little(not just money, but in methods as well)as some are doing great things with lots. Science is involved, but it's not rocket science. Just as there are many to tell you your idea wont work, there are just as many to back it up.

[RBU1]

Another thing to think about...Is should all itmes in water go thru a 10-12 week QT period? I mean after all some of us are going thru the pains of Qting stuff. You can introduce ich via water in a snails shell just as easy as on a fish. Is everyone QTing all wet stuff?

[wooden_reefer]

Is everyone QTing all wet stuff?

I am, from cmmercial sources.