Skimmers... Why are people paying thousands???

[Scungili]

A few months ago I purchased an Octopus 150 recirc for my 180 gal.

Supposedly it can be used for a 200 gal...

I got it for about $200 bucks.

It works well, but I'm wondering how well, well should be?

I see people with tanks my size paying over $2000 for a skimmer not much different appearance wise.

For example, the Bubble Kings over $2000, Reefflo around $1200, Warner Marine $1100...

Are these skimmers really 5-10 times better?

Is it imperative to have a good protein skimmer?

[oceanicblue]

I think a protein skimmer is important, especially in a reef system. Paying that kind of money for a skimmer is a waste.

[stanlalee]

Are these skimmers really 5-10 times better?

Is it imperative to have a good protein skimmer?

You'll have people with these high dollar skimmers and lousy tanks and people with entry skimmers and great tanks (and vise versa). I personally think WAY too much emphasis is placed on the skimmer verses everything else that can be done (sensible stocking, frequent/sizable water changes, allowing tanks to mature without cramming them stocked full the 1rst 3 months ect). time and attention can make up for short comings in equipment but equipment cant make up for lack of effort in upkeeping. the last advanced aquarist on the subject suggested skimmers however good only remove a small amount of dissolved organics from reef aquarium water (they got 10% total, four good skimmers tested). If the quality of your tank lives on the threshold of that 10% or whatever help the skimmer provides then I guess it would be a very important. I would personally hope if I disconnected my skimmer right now my tank would still do just fine.


As for being 5-10x better thats sort of like asking is a porsche 2x better than a corvette. objectively would suggest not (your not going to get 5x the skimate from a deltec then you'll get from a like size Octopus extreme that cost a 5th of the deltecs price). I think realistically the differences in peformance between a $300 MSXs and Vertex vs high end skimmers is probably in the 0-25% range (you can guestimate some of this on dimensions and air draw figures alone). But ask a porsche owner if the extra cost is worth it and they will say absolutely (there's build quality, refinement, prestige, technology ect). Ask a corvette owner they'll say absolutely not (old tech pushrod V8 moves the car just as fast, make it better with the money saved, performance of a supercar why spend more). wether its actually worth it is subjective. If you bought a bubble king and dont regret it then its worth it.

[LobsterOfJustice]

You're right, a lot of them outwardly look similar, but a lot of the difference comes down to the pump.

[bobparker]

+1 It's more in the build of the equipment and not so much the efficiency.

[spamreefnew]

i am sure the pricey skimmers are better. that said i think its like buying a bently to go back n forth to work. a bit of a waste imo

[ChadTheSpike]

You'll have people with these high dollar skimmers and lousy tanks and people with entry skimmers and great tanks (and vise versa). I personally think WAY too much emphasis is placed on the skimmer verses everything else that can be done (sensible stocking, frequent/sizable water changes, allowing tanks to mature without cramming them stocked full the 1rst 3 months ect). time and attention can make up for short comings in equipment but equipment cant make up for lack of effort in upkeeping. the last advanced aquarist on the subject suggested skimmers however good only remove a small amount of dissolved organics from reef aquarium water (they got 10% total, four good skimmers tested). If the quality of your tank lives on the threshold of that 10% or whatever help the skimmer provides then I guess it would be a very important. I would personally hope if I disconnected my skimmer right now my tank would still do just fine.


As for being 5-10x better thats sort of like asking is a porsche 2x better than a corvette. objectively would suggest not (your not going to get 5x the skimate from a deltec then you'll get from a like size Octopus extreme that cost a 5th of the deltecs price). I think realistically the differences in peformance between a $300 MSXs and Vertex vs high end skimmers is probably in the 0-25% range (you can guestimate some of this on dimensions and air draw figures alone). But ask a porsche owner if the extra cost is worth it and they will say absolutely (there's build quality, refinement, prestige, technology ect). Ask a corvette owner they'll say absolutely not (old tech pushrod V8 moves the car just as fast, make it better with the money saved, performance of a supercar why spend more). wether its actually worth it is subjective. If you bought a bubble king and dont regret it then its worth it.

This is a really great answer to this question, IMO. I think that understanding the benefits and limitations (and how to deal with them) of various pieces of equipment and practices is FAR more important than anything else.

[RicksReefs]

'cause the Joneses just got one...

[Kieth71]

I think their is more then just performance when it comes to higher end skimmers.I have an octo extreme 200.This skimmer performs well and does what i need it to for a pretty good price.It comes with a decent pump,bubble plate and has all i need for my tank.When you move to higher end skimmers most of the time you get additional benefits that while everyone may not need it is nice if you have the money.Take for instance the bk skimmer.It comes with a red dragon pump that is more energy efficient and is much more quiet then my pump.This is very important to some people.It will prob last alot longer then my skimmer as well.While we may not all want to spend this money it is never good to lump everything into just performance although some of the higher end skimmers do perform better.

[superman100]

tagging along

[rbc1225]

I have upgraded my skimmer a few times and it came down to truth in advertising. The cheap skimmers are normally streatching the truth by about two if not more. Also the material is very expensive in the more expensive skimmers. Do me a favor. Just look at the skimmer you are talking about being expensive. Now go try to find the same acrylic tubing thickness and all that is put into those expensive skimmers. Just price it out. Acrylic is crazy expensive for what it really is.

It also depends on what you are trying to keep in the aquarium. In a FO or softies tank you can get by without a great skimmer, but if your doing SPS that is a different story. I know there are different theories out there and I am not going to debate that, but I have many beautiful SPS tanks around here in KC and they all rely heavily on a very good skimmer.

[TLParker]

I think a good skimmer takes you a long ways but I dont think you need to pay alot to get it.

I know the more expensive PS do more but is it worth the price to common everyday reefers.

[ang_99]

I've brought this point up before and got semi ridiculed for it from some trying to justify paying thousands for some plastic and acrylic pieces glued together. Its a joke thats been played on this industry for years. :jester:

I can buy a used honda for the price of some of these skimmers.

[Arthur1]

Lol ang I think the same thing to myself sometimes.

[rbc1225]

I've brought this point up before and got semi ridiculed for it from some trying to justify paying thousands for some plastic and acrylic pieces glued together. Its a joke thats been played on this industry for years. :jester:

I can buy a used honda for the price of some of these skimmers.

I totally agree, but try and buy just the acrylic parts and pieces it takes to make one. Price it out and see just how much a 12" tube 1/4" thick and say 18" long is and that's just the body. It is crazy what the acrylic people charge for that.

[redfishsc]

This is one of the advantages of dudes like me with small systems. I can make a DIY skimmer out of PVC pipe that blows away pretty much any skimmer made for these small systems (mine is around 45g total water volume). Granted, mine is air driven by two Luft pumps, and I make my own wooden air diffusers, but I dare anyone to find a commercially made skimmer for a 45g system that can produce half the suds that two Luft pumps can. Sure, Luft pumps are costly but for around $100 I have a DIY skimmer that competes with skimmers made for much larger tanks.



Personally I prefer on bigger systems to buy a used skimmer and just tweak it to work. I also don't overfeed my tanks (anymore, at least!) and have a mixed tank (mostly LPS/softies and a few SPS) so I really don't need something that will strip every organic molecule out of the water. For me, "good" is more than sufficient and "best" is a waste of money.

[Playa-1]

I suspect if you had 20 or 30k invested in a Reef Tank then you might be looking for the best piece of equipment that money could buy. Not everyone is PO like me. I think the performance, quality of build, warranty, service after the sale, noise level of operation, energy efficiency, proprietary features, and your personal cash flow situation all come into play. Something as simple as energy efficiency could easily get me to pull the trigger for high quality. If the numbers looked right and you were in for the long haul then the proper energy ratings and the unit would pay for itself in a matter of time. That would be a no-brainer. Think about LED lighting for a sec. I don't believe the lighting technology is quite there yet, but when it gets there then that will be a no-brainer. That's a situation where the unit pays for itself over time with lots of benefits on top. I have never looked at the high end skimmers all that close but I would be willing to give them a hard look if I were in the right situation.


Are these skimmers really 5-10 times better? Probably not but I wouldn't rule it out.

Is it imperative to have a good protein skimmer?
I think that it's important to have a goof functioning protein skimmer. I don't think that it necessarily has to be expensive. It's good to ask these questions though. I think you might should have asked them before you purchased a skimmer :). I also think you should buy one of each and do a cost vs benefit comparison and report back to us with your findings.

[noahm]

Skimmer technology is still relatively new, and you are going to pay for the latest engineering. That being said, it is relatively simple technology and can be ripped off, so you can definitely wait a year and the middle of the road guys will have a skimmer that performs pretty similarly. The cost of materials is relevant, but not typically exponential, and the middle guys will have most of the features dialed in. Its the cheapo models that you need to watch out for from a quality and performance angle.

[jenglish]

Skimmer costs are driven by pump, acylric cost, machine costs, and design. A cone is harder to make than a tube, new designs cost money (or you can stop improving designs and slowly loose market share), acrylic is expensive and good pumps are a major cost driver. As far as the thickness of acrylic, there is definetly a point of diminishing marginal return. My skimmer need only be sturdy enough to handle pump pressure.... I'm not going to beating anyone with it. I think some of the higher priced skimmers overdo thickness. I think of skimmer value as diminishing marginal return.... you pay more and more for less and less improvement in the ultra high end skimmers. It ultimately comes down to if the 20% better is worth paying 50% more (just pulling numbers out of the air, not actual comparisons).

[elegance coral]

Skimmer costs are driven by pump, acylric cost, machine costs, and design. A cone is harder to make than a tube, new designs cost money (or you can stop improving designs and slowly loose market share), acrylic is expensive and good pumps are a major cost driver. As far as the thickness of acrylic, there is definetly a point of diminishing marginal return. My skimmer need only be sturdy enough to handle pump pressure.... I'm not going to beating anyone with it. I think some of the higher priced skimmers overdo thickness. I think of skimmer value as diminishing marginal return.... you pay more and more for less and less improvement in the ultra high end skimmers. It ultimately comes down to if the 20% better is worth paying 50% more (just pulling numbers out of the air, not actual comparisons).

I agree. I have the MSX 300 with about 1/8" thick body. It's solid and I don't think it's going to get broken sitting in a sump. Why would I need to pay 5 times the price to get a thicker body? Sicce and Askal pumps are energy efficient and work well without raising the cost of a skimmer by $1000. I can't see spending two grand on a skimmer unless it's 4' tall, 2' in diameter, and powered by a swimming pool pump.;)

[Scungili]

so am I ok with an Octopus 150 recirculating skimmer? It can pump out skimmate about the color of ice tea but no real black stuff. If I set it dryer it does nothing... My tank is 180gal. I feed 1 cube per day with a little flake, once a day.

Nitrates and Phosphates are low.

Mag 1350-1400
Cal 400-430
Alk 9.9-10.5

Ph is 8.1-8.35

[Misled]

I'm not going to beating anyone with it anymore.

Yea, but you've already put me in the hospital twice!!!


:eek1:

[ser_renely]

"so am I ok with an Octopus 150 recirculating skimmer? "

did you read the replys?

[luther1200]

I think its a good skimmer, but maybe a bit undersized for a 180. But if its working for you I wouldn't go and get a new 1 because some guy on the internet said to. The bottom line is how dose your tank look? Only you can really answer that question. What is your NO3 and PO4 levels?

[ang_99]

just looked up acrylic tubes and sheets online, they are actually very inexpensive.

[romanr]

If you want the best and can pay for it then do it. If you have budget limitations like I do then shop around, do your homework ask your fellow reefers and find the best bang for your buck.

I run a Remora Pro which is not the best skimmer by any means but when you pair it up with a Mag 7, a oversize cup and place it in a sump you can really enhance its performance and for my 65 it works great.

I think that a lot of the tinkering that some reefers do to get the most out of their skimmers (pump upgrades, mesh mods, etc.) will get you a great performing skimmer and save you a lot of dough.

[ser_renely]

wow a mag7 on a ramora...interesting.

[romanr]

It really wasn't my idea. You can actually buy it like that. And they make a special collection cup for this exact configuration.
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=AQUAC-REMORAP-M7XT&Category_Code=AquaC&Store_Code=PA

[reefergeorge]

I would sell my dnw-150 for 200 bucks in a second.
I wouldn't put it on anything over a 75, but my tank has a very heavy bio load.
If your into diy, there are a lot of mods for it to increase performance.

[lougotzz]

"so am i ok with an octopus 150 recirculating skimmer? "

did you read the replys?

lmfao

[Mark426]

Skimmerless for 2 years...sps doing great and looking great. So....skimmers are a good thing but not required for a great SPS tank wtih color that can match almost anyones.

[jenglish]

Yea, but you've already put me in the hospital twice!!!


:eek1:

That was a calcium reactor.. totally different Jesse ;)

[luther1200]

Skimmerless for 2 years...sps doing great and looking great. So....skimmers are a good thing but not required for a great SPS tank wtih color that can match almost anyones.

How many, and which SPS do you have? Not all SPS are the same. Some are very demanding. Like a birdsnest for example is fairly easy, so are Pavona's or most Monti Digi's, or Green Slimers. But some of the bright color stags or Efflo's are a bit harder, IME. Not to mention smaller tanks can go skimmerless if you have a good WC routine, but larger tanks are harder to do it. I'm not saying it can't be done, but there is a lot factors you have to consider.

[plyle02]

Skimmerless for 2 years...sps doing great and looking great. So....skimmers are a good thing but not required for a great SPS tank wtih color that can match almost anyones.


Mark426,
Is it possible to share your export regiment, stocking list, and husbandry approach? Would you mind posting some pics of your system/setup? Just wondering if you could provide more info, seems difficult but certainly possible...
Thanks,

[newtank]

Let us not forget that margins make the world go around.

[Carlos Arouche]

My oppinion is that instead of Skimmer price, we shoud think in Skimmer design.

At this moment, my oppinion is that Becket and Downdraft ones are still the best skimmer ever made...

They are not expensive in the purchase... but the pumps required to run those skimmers will increase your electric bill a lot.

That said, It´s easy to explain price for the BBking, Tunze and Deltec... they are engineering pumps and internal desingn to the extreme... and the research versus sales will make then more expensive than Reef octopus and others that do not develop anything... (not criticizing RO, but it´s a fact).

I live in Brazil with complicates a lot... purchases here are front payment, taxes double here the prices comparing to US and few stores can import with make proft be something easy... we pay here US$2.5K for a Tunze 9420 or US$3K for a Deltec 701 just to have an idea...

My oppinion is that the better skimmer you get... better you can feed your fishes and corals and helthier they will be...

But better here is... more energy eficiency, design eficiency and functionality and reliability.


So I gona give two answers (py oppinion) for your first question:

In case you want good SPSs and some tangs...
Probably a good RO a little oversized for your aquarium is probably OK, but you will be much happier with a BBking mini or those new Vortex Alpha...

In case you want LPSs and Softies ans less fishes...
Yes a RO150 is good enought.

Best regards.

[sminker]

"Skimmers... Why are people paying thousands???"

Because they have WAY TOO much money on their hands and it makes them feel better about themselves.

[Crazy Cracker]

Just for purposes of discussion, what is the consensus on running more than one skimmer in a single system? Why would you have to use only one skimmer at a time?

I paid about $285 for my Vertex 180, so I could easily buy 3 of them for the price of a comparable BK. At the end of the day, would the single BK still out perform say 2 or 3 Vertex skimmers running at the same time?

[luther1200]

"Skimmers... Why are people paying thousands???"

Because they have WAY TOO much money on their hands and it makes them feel better about themselves.

What a well though out an informative response. Its really adds to the knowledge base of RC.

[Hal]

What a well though out an informative response. Its really adds to the knowledge base of RC.
I feel pretty comfortable in agreeing with the statement that you're making fun of. Face it, some people have more money than brains.

Is a Bubble King better than an Octopus? Yeah, you probably get some quality and performance advantages.

Is it 3x better, as reflected by their 3x price? Probably not. But if money isn't an issue, hey. . . go for it.

[tkeracer619]

ang_99 can you link me to a 12" acrylic tube that is cheap? thanks in advance.

I do not think an octo150 is optimal for a 180. An octo 150 that pulls light colored tea out of a 180 is def not doing its job.

You can modify the OTP pump to make it skim a lot better.

[mojo~]

Extruded tube is cheap. But look up cell cast tube. And not scrap pieces. For example the bubble king mini 's bottome of the cup is the transition piece as well. I bought a piece of pvc to make this part and it was $84 for just the piece. ITs not even the plastic that you have to buy. ITs the assembly of these pieces that make it tricky. I just made my second skimmer. And its not fun for me anymore. lol. You really need a cnc to make these pieces over and over.
For another example 3 8 in round pieces of acrylic at the local plastic shop were $19 each. Almost $60 for 3 circles. But try to cut a perfect cirlce with out putting a hole in it. It all sons good on paper. but to built a skimmer that doesnt look like it came off the shelf of the local home depot, be ready to spend some time and money. not to mention the pump!!
I have quite the range of skimmers and ratings are over rated for most. Most look at air numbers but do not account for water movement. Look at a sicce pump for example. PUlls a ton of air but very little water. Works great fro skimming butwith the amount of water 1 pump cycles I would say it would run very well up to about a 125 well stocked tank. After that I think if your tank is heavily stocked you will want your skimmer to cylcemore water than that pump can. yet alot of these sicce skimmers are rated at about 250gallon.

To the user about with the octo nw150. THat skimmer is good up to about a 90 gallon tank at tops. The octo 2000 pump just doesnt move enough water air to handle a 180 well.
I would say a ATB 1050a would be your best bet. Then a Warner Marine as 200, The msx 250A, vertex in 280. or even the swc cone. Just my two cents though.
Mojo~

[sminker]

What a well though out an informative response. Its really adds to the knowledge base of RC.

anything i can do to help. :thumbsup:

but seriously, unless its a 300+ gallon system then $1000 for a skimmer is rediculous.

[tufacody]

I think sometimes people act like having the money to afford something is somehow "bad". I've worked my *** off in school and in business for 42 years, and if I have the ability to afford something a little bit better, I do it. Simetimes I feel like these posts about skimmers turn into arguments about financial status instead of about skimmers, and I find it quite hypoctitcal. When I was younger and had less money I still wanted Nikes and Levis, when I could have worn walmarts and wranglers. Anyone that can afford to be in this hobby at all is probably no different.

But ya know, I DO feel better about myself buying nice things. Doesn't everyone? Doesn't make me a fool with my money. Most people that have the money to buy BK's know they are buying a luxury item, and they feel good that they have the ability to buy something a little bit nicer. Whether the purchase is "worth it" is subjective as well as objective.

The question behind these skimmer arguments should be: "I have "x" amount of money to spend, what do people think is the best skimmer for that price range?" You are only a fool if you spend good money on crap, or put yourself in the poorhouse buying a skimmer you can't afford.

[xJake]

It's a pretty simple explanation. People pay thousands because they can and they're willing to. Any sort of "advantage" to paying more for a "better" product is almost entirely based on perception - whether this perception proves to be true or not.

Does the fact that the product costs more guarantee anything in regard to quality or performance? No.

Does the fact that the product is of higher quality or performance guarantee a higher price? In the majority of cases, yes.

It's these two ideas, and where they overlap, that tend to cause confusion.

When discussing topics like this, people seem to lose sense of the difference between the two above ideas. Higher price does not necessarily guarantee higher quality; however, higher quality will usually always guarantee higher price (to an extent) - it's a fairly basic correlation that higher quality products will almost always require more expensive materials, or just more OF the same materials, leading to increased cost and increased price.

There seems to be quite a few analogies using cars in this thread, so I'll add my own to the bunch...

If you think of a skimmer in terms of a car, you can easily equate a car's engine to a skimmer's pump, the frame of a car to the body of a skimmer, and the performance of the car (gas mileage, speed, acceleration, etc.) to the performance of a skimmer (size, energy efficiency, amount of water being processed, the amount of air being injected, etc.)

Using this metaphor, the most important and basic factor that must be addressed is functionality.

That is, the most important question to answer is "Does it meet your needs for a car?"

If all you're looking for is a reliable car to get you from point A to point B, then there is no reason to spend more than you need to. If this basic factor was the only thing that influenced car purchases, then we would all be driving mass-produced, fuel-efficient, virtually identical cars. However, obviously, this isn't even remotely the case. So, why is that?

The answer is a simple idea, but at the same time, it's extremely difficult to explain. If a person has more money and is willing to spend more money than what is needed to meet their basic needs in a car, then they will. They pay more money for things like more powerful engines, highly engineered bodies, a custom paint-job, and in the great majority of cases, the BRAND of the car. Whether or not these are even truly advantages, people pay more based on the perception that they're getting a "better" product.

Is a $250,000 Lamborghini going to do a better job than a $35,000 Toyota at safely transporting you to work? In the most basic sense, no, the Lambo provides no real advantage. This is where perception steps in. The *perception* is that a Lamborghini is a "better" brand of car - despite whether or not it actually provides any real, worthwhile advantage over the Toyota. People are then willing to pay more money for this "advantage" whether it is real or fictitious.

Can you purchase a $300 skimmer that performs well? Sure.
How about a $2000 skimmer that performs well? Absolutely.

Is this huge jump in price any sort of guarantee for ACTUAL advantages one skimmer provides over the other? Nope.

The $300 skimmer could have thinner acrylic, a less powerful pump, and a less than perfect design. The $2000 skimmer could have thicker acrylic, a high-powered custom-engineered pump, and a state-of-the-art design.

Does thicker acrylic, a better pump, and a great design provide a healthier aquarium? It *can*, but if the same goal can be achieved using the $300 skimmer, then the "advantage" of the $2000 skimmer's "improved quality" quickly loses its value.

[sminker]

It's a pretty simple explanation. People pay thousands because they can and they're willing to. Any sort of "advantage" to paying more for a "better" product is almost entirely based on perception - whether this perception proves to be true or not.

Does the fact that the product costs more guarantee anything in regard to quality or performance? No.

Does the fact that the product is of higher quality or performance guarantee a higher price? In the majority of cases, yes.

It's these two ideas, and where they overlap, that tend to cause confusion.

When discussing topics like this, people seem to lose sense of the difference between the two above ideas. Higher price does not necessarily guarantee higher quality; however, higher quality will usually always guarantee higher price (to an extent) - it's a fairly basic correlation that higher quality products will almost always require more expensive materials, or just more OF the same materials, leading to increased cost and increased price.

There seems to be quite a few analogies using cars in this thread, so I'll add my own to the bunch...

If you think of a skimmer in terms of a car, you can easily equate a car's engine to a skimmer's pump, the frame of a car to the body of a skimmer, and the performance of the car (gas mileage, speed, acceleration, etc.) to the performance of a skimmer (size, energy efficiency, amount of water being processed, the amount of air being injected, etc.)

Using this metaphor, the most important and basic factor that must be addressed is functionality.

That is, the most important question to answer is "Does it meet your needs for a car?"

If all you're looking for is a reliable car to get you from point A to point B, then there is no reason to spend more than you need to. If this basic factor was the only thing that influenced car purchases, then we would all be driving mass-produced, fuel-efficient, virtually identical cars. However, obviously, this isn't even remotely the case. So, why is that?

The answer is a simple idea, but at the same time, it's extremely difficult to explain. If a person has more money and is willing to spend more money than what is needed to meet their basic needs in a car, then they will. They pay more money for things like more powerful engines, highly engineered bodies, a custom paint-job, and in the great majority of cases, the BRAND of the car. Whether or not these are even truly advantages, people pay more based on the perception that they're getting a "better" product.

Is a $250,000 Lamborghini going to do a better job than a $35,000 Toyota at safely transporting you to work? In the most basic sense, no, the Lambo provides no real advantage. This is where perception steps in. The *perception* is that a Lamborghini is a "better" brand of car - despite whether or not it actually provides any real, worthwhile advantage over the Toyota. People are then willing to pay more money for this "advantage" whether it is real or fictitious.

Can you purchase a $300 skimmer that performs well? Sure.
How about a $2000 skimmer that performs well? Absolutely.

Is this huge jump in price any sort of guarantee for ACTUAL advantages one skimmer provides over the other? Nope.

The $300 skimmer could have thinner acrylic, a less powerful pump, and a less than perfect design. The $2000 skimmer could have thicker acrylic, a high-powered custom-engineered pump, and a state-of-the-art design.

Does thicker acrylic, a better pump, and a great design provide a healthier aquarium? It *can*, but if the same goal can be achieved using the $300 skimmer, then the "advantage" of the $2000 skimmer's "improved quality" quickly loses its value.

i like the way you think

[jenglish]

To the user about with the octo nw150. THat skimmer is good up to about a 90 gallon tank at tops. The octo 2000 pump just doesnt move enough water air to handle a 180 well.
I would say a ATB 1050a would be your best bet. Then a Warner Marine as 200, The msx 250A, vertex in 280. or even the swc cone. Just my two cents though.
Mojo~


I think these are all excellent skimmers and likely worth the money if you can afford it and it is worth it to you. That being said I have also seen some beautiful SPS tanks rank with the MSX and Vertex skimmers running the cheaper Sicce pumps rather than Askoll.

[mojo~]

The bad thing about a stock sicce is the directional volute. I have tested 5 sicce pumps now and the best I have gotten is 65% in the right direction. So the custom volute on the sicce pump is a big deal to me. But for a 180gallong I would look at a skimmer that uses two of these pumps like the msx 250 but for that I Would just get the vertex in280

[aquariumclown]

Skimmerless for 2 years...sps doing great and looking great. So....skimmers are a good thing but not required for a great SPS tank wtih color that can match almost anyones.

Please post some pictures to back up your claim. Thanks

[aquariumclown]

Just for purposes of discussion, what is the consensus on running more than one skimmer in a single system? Why would you have to use only one skimmer at a time?

I paid about $285 for my Vertex 180, so I could easily buy 3 of them for the price of a comparable BK. At the end of the day, would the single BK still out perform say 2 or 3 Vertex skimmers running at the same time?

IMO, it definitely can.

[sjames]

nothing like a good wealth envy thread to get the day started.

[sminker]

IMO, it definitely can.

I would LOVE to see some pictures to back up your claim also.

[birdmike]

Depending on your system needs (IE: stocking level), you will likely not need a skimmer if you can practice patience and restraint when stocking your tank. A well-balanced system I believe is far more important than a high powered skimmer.

[stealle]

Here is a slightlly different viewpoint as to why "paying thousands" might be worth it to some...

This hobby can be very complex. There is so much information for enthusiasts to learn. Let's face it, if you are a newbie and you want to dive into this hobby, you just can't learn enough to "dive" in in a reasonable amount of time. I have only been in the hobby for about three years, I have read several books, spent hours on the forums, and I still have plenty to learn.

I think sometimes people who have the money for these expensive skimmers, just figure "you get what you pay for" and "I don't want to spend hours and hours researching, my time is valuable. I'll just spend the money and know I got a good one." It is very difficult to judge skimmer performance. Sure, we can look a pics of skimmate, compare pumps, water flow, and airflow, but that's about all we got. Let's face it, it would be easier to just spend an hour looking through some of the threads and say "most people seem to like that skimmer, sure it's $1000, let's buy it."

There are also those people who read the threads that are going to see people who constantly upgrade their skimmer. You know "this ATB blows away my old deltec". Some people are going to spend a lot of money thinking "just buy the best the first time, instead of wasting money on the cheap ones."

Personally I'd rather people spend their valuable time researching the care of their livestock. If they want to spend a ton of money on a skimmer that's their business. It will only promote further research on skimmer technology which will eventually lead to higher performing low-end skimmers.

[Runfrumu]

It's just like anything. You can drive a Ford Focus, or you can drive a Ferrari. Both will get you from point A to B. It's just a matter of personal preference. I don't care if a person buys a $3000 skimmer or a $30, if they are happy with their purchase, thats all that really matters.

People are always too concerned with what the other guy is doing and what he's spending his money on. It's your money, do what you want to with it and don't worry if someone on RC think's your "crazy" for buying what you want.

[stealle]

Also, someone mentioned earlier in the thread about feeding less. I used to be a nano tank owner. It was common practice to feed fish once every other day. I don't like the idea of withholding food to keep good water paramters. Sure, we have to show some restraint with feedings, but I'd rather feed my livestock as heavily as possible. This might be an area where that extra 10-20% performance gain in an expensive skimmer can possibly shine through.

[Runfrumu]

BTW, when someone actually acts mad about someone else being able to buy a $2000 skimmer, it's always a jealousy issue. Saying someone has more money than brains is absurd. If a person has the money, what does it matter to you what they spend it on? Are you paying for it?

[Misled]

Saying someone has more money than brains is absurd



I agree with this. He probably has the brains and that's why he has the money. Crap, just made myself feel stupid.


:lol:

[jbird69]

Saying someone has more money than brains is absurd.

Take a look at the majority of professional athletes. The majority of professional entertainers... America in general has more money than brains with its entertainment driven economy.

In most cases, when I am shopping for a product, I like to say "buy the best quality and cry once, or buy cheap and cry every time it needs to be replaced"

With that said, do the research and see what is best for you, it may not be the top dollar item. Its silly when people pay top dollar because they believe that alone means its the best product for them. JMO

[t-bone2]

Saying someone has more money than brains is absurd.

tell that to jay leno he said on tv thats the was he buys cars.:rolleyes:

[lougotzz]

"Skimmers... Why are people paying thousands???"

Because they have WAY TOO much money on their hands and it makes them feel better about themselves.

That was a pretty dumb answer dude.

[lougotzz]

As far as that "some people have more money than brains" line, I absolutely 100 percent agree with that.
I got a cousin with more money than God, he was having his basement finished, and he was given an estimate of about 12 grand. At the end of the job the contractor turns around and says his final payment of said amount, totals 18k. My cousin stupidly pays it, and after he has been given the shaft, and finished bad mouthing him to me, about 6 months later he turns around an rehires him to fix what he put in wrong. I would also like to add, I am in contruction, the contractor was over priced at 12k. I told him this after he payed the 18 grand.
Now I couldnt care less what people do with their money, but I think that statement is true to some extent.

[luther1200]

Even if it is true, its really nobody else's business how some one spends there own money. And the whole comment is very transparent, as jealousy, IMO. Its like saying somebody is dumb for buying a lavish house or car.

[ser_renely]

interesting.... I would think two of the same skimmer would be an interesting idea...

[lougotzz]

Even if it is true, its really nobody else's business how some one spends there own money. And the whole comment is very transparent, as jealousy, IMO. Its like saying somebody is dumb for buying a lavish house or car.

Oh no I dont care what anyone does with their money. Thats like my whole political view point (flaming conservative here), Im just saying, some people spend their money with out thinking. I dont think its stupid to buy a car like a Lamborghini. I think it is stupid though to be taken advantage of, and then go back for more like my example above. Someone buying a 2 thousand dollar skimmer does not make them stupid in my eyes. I also agree with you as its jealousy. I just think there are times were that comment is true.

[luther1200]

I got ya.

[mikeatjac]

I guess I could get 3 cheap skimmers and a sump to handle them all. On second thought I will just get one expense skimmer. It amazes me how few people know what a real skimmer can do.

[swiseman]

I don't really get the point of this thread. People buy expensive skimmers because they can. Thats it. The same reasoning can be applied to the house you live in, the car you drive, or the restaurant you and your spouse enjoy.

Imagine the backlash there would be if someone with a Bubble King 600 started a thread asking, "How do People Keep their Tanks Alive with Skimmers Costing Less Than $1000".

[stealle]

interesting.... I would think two of the same skimmer would be an interesting idea...
I've seen a few members here on RC run two skimmers.
I dont think its stupid to buy a car like a Lamborghini.

... but it would be stupid to pay 50% more for the Lamborghini than what it can normally be purchased for. (just sayin' I agree with lougotzz's statement above)

[sminker]

That was a pretty dumb answer dude.

thanks!! :thumbsup:

i think its awesome how everyone takes my comment out of context. whats wrong with having too much money and buying stuff to make you feel better? heck between me and wife i couldnt even tell you how much useless crap we buy....lol

[sminker]

I guess I could get 3 cheap skimmers and a sump to handle them all. On second thought I will just get one expense skimmer. It amazes me how few people know what a real skimmer can do.



Im pretty sure a real skimmer can, umm, hmm, let me think, oh yeah!! SKIM!!!!