My green monti caps stay creamy instead of green, why?!

[plancton]

Hi, this problem has been going on in my tank since forever. Green monti caps become creamy in coloration in my tank. In other tanks they´re either militar green or fluorescent green in coloration, but they always turn creamy in my tank. (Do not mind the algae on the pic, I had dinoflagellates long time ago, the tank has been clean for a year now)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/avillax/IMG_0700.jpg
I used to have T5s, and now I have HQIs and no difference. Green encrusting montis do remain very green, but don´t know why monti caps just don´t.

[fishnut321]

looks dead...

what are your parameters and system configuration?

[Beaun]

How are you other corals doing?

[scubasteve247]

try adding, iron, will greatly increase green pigments,

do you have any t5'S?

[luther1200]

It looks to have expelled its Zooanthellae to me. How long have they been in the tank? If its been a while then they should be used to the lights by now. If so I would guess your nutrient levels are to high and causing the Zooanthellae to reproduce to much causing excess O2 locally, I beleive. So the coral expelled them. Usually to much nutrients will brown a coral from the excess Zooanthellae, but I believe it can cause them to expell them also. I could be wrong on the cause, but it defintely looks a little bleached to me. Now you just have to find out why.

[luther1200]

try adding, iron, will greatly increase green pigments,

do you have any t5'S?

Not trying to be a jerk, but do you have a link or something that talks about this? I would like to read if you know of 1, thanks :)

[jenglish]

I have some orange Monti frags in a QT (not like it's rare ;) ) and it stays much paler under a single PC (no skimmer)than the mother colony under 4 T5s (oversized skimmer). It has stayed that sickly color for months and months without actually dying. I do see signs of growth on yours.

[plancton]

The monti is not dead, its even growing but slowly, all other corals in my reef look amazing, if it has expelled its xoanthelle as you said, its been like that for two years, wouldn´t it be possible for it to gain its color again?.

I added a Tyree baby blue polyp cap 4 months ago, the color is not that creamy, but its sort of yellow creamy with baby blue polyps, its not much different in coloration to the green monti cap except for the blue polyps. That´s why this whole thing is suspicious.

And it can´t be the lights because I used to have t5s and now I have HQI+t5and there´s no difference in their coloration.

They suggested to me before that iron would work, I haven´t tried it yet, but I just can´t believe my tank would have lacked iron its whole life or something, plus I don´t understand why green encrusting montis do remain green:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/avillax/IMG_1551.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/avillax/grinchclosup.jpg

My setup: 3x250 watt hqi (2x phoenix 14000k, 1x ushio 20 000k) with galaxy ballasts. 2x80 watt ATI blue plus.

Nitrates: < 1 ppm
Phosphates: 0
Alkalinity: 9.5 dkh
calcium: 450 mg/l

[luther1200]

The monti is not dead, its even growing but slowly, all other corals in my reef look amazing, if it has expelled its xoanthelle as you said, its been like that for two years, wouldn´t it be possible for it to gain its color again?.



Yes, I had bleached corals come back before. We just have to figure out why this has is bleached and fix it.


If you feel you have low nutrient level than maybe, they need food.

[plancton]

They´ve told me that monti caps like "dirty water" and when water is to clean its no good for them, I don´t know if that is true and if it is my problem. I have Kent coral accel, its aminoacids, I stopped using it cuz a friend told me it caused him algae.

I did use it for a 2 month period or something like that, I don´t recall very noticeable changes in coloration.

I guess I could try using iron, but I would have to buy the supplement which is another expense, so before I do so I need to find out if that´s the problem. As you can see, green encrusting montis are fine.

[jbird69]

Two observations...judging by the amount of algae present around the coral, you may have some high nutrient issues. Also, youve had this coral for 2 years?...it should be bigger than a dinner plate under decent conditions. Monti caps do not "like" dirty water. They can tolerate a little more than most sps but still need excellent water quality.

[plancton]

Yeah but that´s an old picture when I had a dinoflagellate issue that started because of a bad hydrometer. There´s no algae now. And I just tested again and nitrates are about 1 ppm.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/avillax/IMG_1591.jpg

[Mark426]

EDIT: Whoops...you posted that your nutrient issue has been solved as I was posting this.

[luther1200]

Well your Acro's all look great. So maybe you have some Monti pest? But only the Cap's are really having problems you say. Maybe a fish is picking at it? Maybe take it out and put it in a QT tank if you can for a while and see what happens.

[xJake]

Very interesting... I've been having similar issues with my green M. capricornis colonies. It started after began dosing a combination of sugar and vinegar as a source of organic carbon. I didn't have any major nutrient issues before or after dosing; I was simply interested in the subject of dissolved organic carbon, and wanted to at least try it - I was attempting to find a topic for a research experiment.

I was dosing only the minimum amounts of vinegar and sugar recommended in most discussions, and most of my corals responded positively to the dosing regimen with both increased growth rates and increasingly vibrant coloration. A few of them didn't show any noticeable difference, but there was only one case where a coral was "negatively" affected. Of course, by "negatively" I mean only in terms of what is seen as "positive" and "negative" in the reef aquarium hobby - it could very well be in a much better state of health than before, but there is no way to know for sure.

My green M. capricornis colonies responded with highly increased growth rates, but unfortunately, quickly began fading in color. These colonies started showing substantial white growth rims, and were growing noticeably larger every day I saw them; however, as I mentioned, the vibrant green color quickly began to shift to a similar "cream" color - in fact, virtually identical to yours. I don't have any recent photos of the colonies, but here are a couple from last March, before the color began to fade...

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh277/jgraving/Marine%20Lab/montipora.jpg
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh277/jgraving/Marine%20Lab/montipora2.jpg

I'll be sure to post some up-to-date photos of them as soon as I can.

There is also the possibility that this loss of coloration is related to some other factor. I replaced my 14,000K MH bulbs with 10,000K bulbs a few weeks after I started the dosing regimen. I didn't notice any major color shifts in any of my other corals after the lighting change, and the M. capricornis had already been losing color during the weeks prior. I suppose changing my lighting spectrum could possibly have played some role in the color shift, but I definitely don't think it is the main cause.

I've since stopped dosing any sources of organic carbon, but the coloration hasn't shown much improvement. I gave a frag of the M. capricornis to a friend, and it shifted back to the original vibrant green color in his tank. His setup and maintenance routine is very similar to my own, the only major differences being that he has a higher overall bioload, and runs T5's instead of MH lighting (the PAR readings are very similar). We both dose 2-part supplements daily and maintain our calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium at similar levels. We both do regular (bi-weekly) water changes, and use the same salt mix (Instant Ocean). Other than those few things, the systems are kept very similarly to each other, yet the frag I gave him returned to the original vibrant green color within less than a week's time.

try adding, iron, will greatly increase green pigments

I've never read, or even heard of, anything about green fluorescent pigments being influenced by dissolved iron levels, and the basis for the idea itself doesn't make much sense to me. Coral pigmentation is caused by the production fluorescent proteins (known as mycosporin-like amino acids, or "MAA's"), which don't contain any significant amounts of iron that I've read about and more than likely don't require any significant amounts of iron for production.

Do you have a source to support this claim? Or at the very least a discussion thread on the topic? I'm not trying to call you a liar or anything; this is just the first time I've even thought about such a correlation. Plus, just from the point-of-view of being a scientist, I'm always skeptical about new claims.

If there is some data to support the idea, then I may take advantage of some of my research funding to explore the possible influence of dissolved iron levels on coral growth, health, coloration, etc.

[jbird69]

What a beautiful tank! Maybe this coral is unhappy in its location. Have you tried moving it around the tank?

[luther1200]

I have been dosing Iron for several months for my fuge and have not noticed any improved green color. I might suggest the OP try dosing AA, but I'm not sure it will help.

[plancton]

xjake: So it does seem like the problem is water being "to clean", you mention that the only difference between you and your friend is that he´s got a higher bioload, which means more nutrients.

My tank also has a very low bioload. I´m thinking this is going to be the issue, anyways I was planning on adding more fish, so I´ll guess we´ll see what happens. I´m not gonna buy the iron supplement.

Jbird: Yeah, before it was in a high light high flow area, and I moved it to an area with a bit less light and moderate flow, no difference, the tyree baby blue polyp cap took its place and is no greener.

Everything seems to indicate the issue could be lack of nutrients.

[xJake]

xjake: So it does seem like the problem is water being "to clean", you mention that the only difference between you and your friend is that he´s got a higher bioload, which means more nutrients.

My tank also has a very low bioload. I´m thinking this is going to be the issue, anyways I was planning on adding more fish, so I´ll guess we´ll see what happens. I´m not gonna buy the iron supplement.

Everything seems to indicate the issue could be lack of nutrients.

It definitely seems to be a strong possibility; however, it's been just over a month since I stopped carbon dosing, but the coloration still hasn't returned to normal.

I've been toying with the idea of possibly dosing potassium nitrate, some kind of amino acid supplement, or perhaps a type of live planktonic food (protein-based, such as rotifers) to help increase the available nutrients. However, all of my other corals are doing so well that I'd rather not mess with anything if I don't absolutely have to.

What a beautiful tank! Maybe this coral is unhappy in its location. Have you tried moving it around the tank?
Jbird: Yeah, before it was in a high light high flow area, and I moved it to an area with a bit less light and moderate flow, no difference, the tyree baby blue polyp cap took its place and is no greener.

I thought the same thing. I tried moving frags to different locations in the tank, but none of them showed improved coloration.

[luther1200]

I recently had a Milli with blue tips lose the blue tips and they turned more green than blue. I don't know why. But I started feeding Oyster feast 3x a week, not for any reason execpt I wanted to try it. And the blue has started to come back. I don't think Oyster Feast increases blue color, I just think the coral needed more food. Actually I mix Oyster Feast and Coral Frenzy and feed that 3x a week. Its only been about 2 weeks, but so far it has seemed to help. But I run Polyp Labs Reefresh which is like vodka dosing, but it has AA, and a few other supplements you add. I think it works great, but the coral wasn't getting the best color it could so I tried Oyster Feast and Coral Frenzy.

[Gary Majchrzak]

beautiful aquarium but why does all the liverock look white and sterile?
Did those Acropora grow like that in your aquarium or did you purchase those as larger frags/colonies?

All my caps are most colorful when PO4 levels are low. They fairly explode with growth and color right after each water change.
The Fe (iron) suggestion is BS IMO/IME.

[plancton]

The rocks look like that because many were taken out and dried up in order to kill a mantis shrimp, it worked. In the old tank, the rocks were getting covered with coraline but extremely slow, except for the glass.
The big colonies grew in my tank from frags. I´ve always used seachem advantage calcium and seachem reef builder, but I´m thinking is getting old, I will be switching to kent A B before in order to look for a more stable ionic balance before I buy the calcium reactor.