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View Full Version : Treating a Long-spined Sea Urchin before QT


Hellaenergy
11/16/2009, 07:39 PM
I'm going to be bringing home a Black Long-spined Sea Urchin in the near future. What is the best way to treat this guy before introducing it into my QT? Will ReVive work? Perhaps a freshwater dip?

Gwynhidwy
11/17/2009, 08:00 AM
Definitely don't do a freshwater dip. Personally, I don't dip non-sessile invertebrates before quarantine. I quarantine them in a fishless system for 8 weeks.

Hellaenergy
11/17/2009, 09:50 AM
Definitely don't do a freshwater dip. Personally, I don't dip non-sessile invertebrates before quarantine. I quarantine them in a fishless system for 8 weeks.

So let me ask this then. What sort of pests and or diseases can these things harbor? And if found how are they treated?

Urchinhead
11/17/2009, 10:03 AM
Generally they do not need QT. They don't carry anything that would be harmful to our fish/inverts. You will need to drip acclimate it though as it doesn't do well with rapid salinity changes. If it starts to drop its spines then you have a urchin in distress and the odds of it recovering are very low and you should pull it from the tank.

Hellaenergy
11/17/2009, 10:13 AM
They don't carry anything that would be harmful to our fish/inverts.

How about stuff that could potentially be harmful to coral?

Gwynhidwy
11/17/2009, 10:42 AM
Generally they do not need QT. They don't carry anything that would be harmful to our fish/inverts.

I have to respectfully disagree on this. Because the are hard on the outside, they can bring tomonts, the reproductive stage of ich, into a tank. Anything wet has the potential to bring parasites and disease that can infect corals and/or fish and as such should be quarantined. It isn't terribly likely, but it does happen, and if you are set up to properly quarantine inverts, why not do it to be safe?

Urchinhead
11/17/2009, 11:13 AM
Ugh! Good point! I didn't even think about that. I was focusing on what they would be carrying internally.

JHemdal
11/17/2009, 11:25 AM
Gwynhidwy,

And don't forget eggs of Neobenedenia! These can get attached to live rock, urchin spines, plastic plants, all sorts of thing. I always hold inverts in a fishless system for 6 weeks - but your 8 week hold would be safer.

Jay

Hellaenergy
11/17/2009, 11:29 AM
they can bring tomonts, the reproductive stage of ich, into a tank. Anything wet has the potential to bring parasites and disease that can infect corals and/or fish and as such should be quarantined

How does one prevent or treat potential outbreaks? Are Urchins treatable? If so, what are some techniques? Or does one just cut their losses if something is found (if it's even detectable)? I know this is an open ended question given the range of things that could happen. I'm just curious as to if there are ways out there.

Urchinhead
11/17/2009, 11:32 AM
They are sensitive to copper so that is out. You could try formalin and/or hyposalinity BUT you will have to lower and raise it very gradually.

Hellaenergy
11/17/2009, 11:36 AM
They are sensitive to copper so that is out. You could try formalin and/or hyposalinity BUT you will have to lower and raise it very gradually.

Formalin specifically says on the bottle not to use it on inverts. How would you suggest administering it as a treatment? As a quick dip or over time? What level of salinity would you recommend if I went the hyposalinity route?

Thanks everyone for all your help/responses.

Urchinhead
11/17/2009, 11:50 AM
Ergh. Its *NOT* my day today. Sorry about that. I am sleep deprived I am afraid. Don't use Formalin. I can't really think of anything other than a 6 week+ period in a QT tank if you want to be absolutely safe. You don't need to do Hyposalinity actually as most parasites will have died off without a host to feed on at that point. A 5-10 gallon tank should be fine. Just keep the salinity stable and the 'trates under control. Feeding can be done once a week or so with a square of Nori in a location that the urchin can find it.

Gwynhidwy
11/17/2009, 12:41 PM
Good point Jay. ;)

As a general rule, there is no need to treat invertebrates like this with anything. Most diseases/parasites are somewhat specific, and will die without the proper organism to infect after a short period of time. 8 weeks is sufficient for most things. So in a tank with no coral and no fish, any disease or parasite that hitches a ride in on your urchin will very likely die.

There isn't anything that I am aware that would effectively kill most disease causing organisms without harming the urchin. Do NOT use hyposalinity, formalin, copper, or a freshwater dip as any of these will almost certainly kill the urchin. Simply keep the urchin isolated in a tank with no fish, and corals if you are concerned there, for eight weeks and you should be fine.

Urchinhead
11/17/2009, 12:52 PM
Hyposalinity wouldn't kill them but the lowering and raising would have to be done painfully slowly. ;) Pretty much everything else would though. And when you say Jay do you mean me? If so I am not Jay...

Gwynhidwy
11/17/2009, 01:47 PM
And when you say Jay do you mean me? If so I am not Jay...

Nope, I didn't mean you. ;)

JHemdal
11/18/2009, 10:04 AM
Definately do NOT try hyposalinity on any echinoderm! There are no freshwater echinoderms, and very few that would even be considered brackish.

Jay

Hellaenergy
11/18/2009, 10:17 AM
Well it's in the QT now marinating :cool: I was unable to find any information about treating Urchins so it will sit for 8 weeks as suggested.

If anyone does have anymore information please keep it coming.

Urchinhead
11/18/2009, 05:11 PM
Definately do NOT try hyposalinity on any echinoderm! There are no freshwater echinoderms, and very few that would even be considered brackish.

Jay

I think your definition and mine of what constitutes hypo-salinity may be different... To me its 1.015+ with brackish being at the 1.005-1.014 range and freshwater being <1.005 and ideally 1.000... So I believe[1] if the SG was lowered gradually down to 1.015 the urchin would not die... Regardless its off topic and splitting hairs. My apologies.

[1] I have not performed this experiment nor am I aware of anyone who has or any publications that speak to this so this is my personal opinion not backed by empirical evidence.

Gwynhidwy
11/18/2009, 05:29 PM
I think your definition and mine of what constitutes hypo-salinity may be different... To me its 1.015+ with brackish being at the 1.005-1.014 range and freshwater being <1.005 and ideally 1.000... So I believe[1] if the SG was lowered gradually down to 1.015 the urchin would not die... Regardless its off topic and splitting hairs. My apologies.



Well, while technically anything below natural seawater's salinity is hyposalinity, the majority of reef keepers think of 1.009 when someone says hyposalinity because that is what is used to treat ich and most commonly referred to as hyposalinity. However, I am not sure that even 1.015 would be tolerated.

1904
11/18/2009, 05:44 PM
I dont know why i got him because I cant stick my hands in the sump anymore

wooden_reefer
11/19/2009, 11:10 AM
Many inverts need algae to live on for eight or more weeks of isolation to eradicate ich.

Algae will grow with simple light setup, however, unlike for corals.

You can have an isolation tank for inverts that has a simple light setup a few weeks before for some algae to have grown in the isolation tank.