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View Full Version : Want to eradicate ich am I on the right track?


forrealb50
11/17/2009, 07:41 PM
I had an ich outbreak early October and on October 31st my tank went fishless to start the process. I plan on keeping the tank fishless for 8 weeks. I also setup a quarantine tank complete with a UV sterilizer, carbon filter, heater, PVC pipe, and standard 50/50 light.

This is my plan, please tell me if I’m doing something wrong. When I do my water change at the end of the month I’m going to take water out of my DT to fill the quarantine and also add in 2 filter elements that have been in the DT for 4+ months to help maintain the cycle. Also, instead of running copper I would like to use hypo-salinity for all new fish to kill any ich the fish my be carrying. I then wanted to pick up a pair of Clark's and add them to the quarantine immediately. I will keep the new fish in the quarantine for 4 week. At the end of the 4 weeks my DT will have been fishless for 8 week and will add the fish to the DT.

Going forward, I will be adding fish to the quarantine tank for 4 week while they are monitored for any infestations.

As long as I follow this process I will be ich free - correct?

kaiserkid
11/17/2009, 08:32 PM
It sounds like you are on the right track. 8 weeks without fish for a host should be long enough to kill off the ick in the DT. If you are relying on your UV sterilizer to kill the ick in the QT make sure that the rate of flow is slow enough to do the trick (brand and model specific). The flow rate for UV sterilizers to kill parasites is much lower than to kill bacteria and algae.

You might also want to consider copper or hyposlainity in the QT. It would be a shame to rid your DT of ick just to reintroduce it from your QT. If you use copper remember that none of the rocks, filters, etc. that you use in the QT should be used with the DT again as they could leak copper into your DT. It is also recommended to only do one treatment at a time so not to shock the fish.

As far as your water change. I would be hesitant to introduce any water from the DT into the QT in the middle of treating the fish unless you are sure that the ick is gone. I would think that doing so might introduce ick in the free floating larve stage into the QT thus resetting the 8 week countdown. I don't know this to be fact...just a thought.

I hope it all works out for you.

forrealb50
11/17/2009, 08:45 PM
It sounds like you are on the right track. 8 weeks without fish for a host should be long enough to kill off the ick in the DT. If you are relying on your UV sterilizer to kill the ick in the QT make sure that the rate of flow is slow enough to do the trick (brand and model specific). The flow rate for UV sterilizers to kill parasites is much lower than to kill bacteria and algae.

You might also want to consider copper or hyposlainity in the QT. It would be a shame to rid your DT of ick just to reintroduce it from your QT. If you use copper remember that none of the rocks, filters, etc. that you use in the QT should be used with the DT again as they could leak copper into your DT. It is also recommended to only do one treatment at a time so not to shock the fish.

As far as your water change. I would be hesitant to introduce any water from the DT into the QT in the middle of treating the fish unless you are sure that the ick is gone. I would think that doing so might introduce ick in the free floating larve stage into the QT thus resetting the 8 week countdown. I don't know this to be fact...just a thought.

I hope it all works out for you.

I would like to use hyposalinity to treat the new fish. Am I wrong to think that with hyposalinity, the QT will maintain a healthy balance of beneficial bacteria? My belief is with copper it kills everything and harder to keep a balance - correct?

I will also use fresh RO water and saltwater for all water changes.

kaiserkid
11/17/2009, 09:13 PM
I think you are heading in the right direction. The reason that I mentioned hyposalinity and copper is because the only parasite killing thing that you mentioned was your UV (for the fish in the QT now, not new fish...are there fish in the QT now or did they all die from ick?) and I just wanted to make sure you had the flow slow enough to do the job.

I have used copper in the past with no ill effects. I find that it is easiest to keep the right balance if you mix it in the water that you are going to do the waterchange with rather than mix it in the tank. For instance if you use coppersafe and it says mix 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons, its easy to get a 5 gallon bucket, mix your RO water and salt, then throw in the copper as opposed to trying to get the right balance mixing it directly in the tank.

Hyposalinity also works well, but just like copper or any other treatment, you need to keep an eye on your levels. It is necissary to keep the levels low enough to kill all of the different types of ick (assuming that you don't know specifically which you have) but not so low that it kills your fish.

Here is a good article about treatments:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

Putting new fish in a hyposalinity QT before introducing them into the DT should save you from a lot of trouble in the future. You are right on track there. Im just trying to make sure that if you have fish in the QT now that were infected with ick that they are cured before being reintroduced to the DT.

kaiserkid
11/17/2009, 10:39 PM
This thread might help you also.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1500214

wooden_reefer
11/18/2009, 11:19 AM
When I do my water change at the end of the month I’m going to take water out of my DT to fill the quarantine and also add in 2 filter elements that have been in the DT for 4+ months to help maintain the cycle.

It is good that you plan to have nitrification in QT. But you have to think about whether it will be enough.

Just having a filter medium (circulating I hope) in DT for 4 months will achieve significant nitrification, but will it be enough? If you QT small bioload it may be enough. If you are trying to eradicate ich in an existing tank with many fish, it likely won't be enough. For me, I will never rely on just circulating in DT for filter medium intended for QT. I will always boost the nitrification capacity by cycling the medium separate from DT using a source of ammonia.

I will NEVER allow the nitrification capacity in QT to be an issue if I can prevent it. Generally, I can unless I need to use a drug that interferes with nitrification in QT; cooper is not one such drug.

Circulating in DT is a very convenient and good way to seed a medium, but does not create a very dense and active medium. Just think about it. In general, the DT ammonia concentration is near zero. An equilibrum is reached between the amount of ammonia generated and the population of nitrification bacteria. The bacteria population in the medium will never be ideally high and you remove needed bacteria from your DT when you transfer it to QT.

This way of scounging for nitrification bacteria from DT to be used in QT may be useful in a bind, but should not be something that you plan for.

You need to support all you fish in QT for eight weeks of active treatment, not observation, to eradicate ich. Enough nitrification is critical to the ease and effectiveness of this task.

UV is good to much reduce the incidents of external bacterial infection. I use it for this purpose whenever I am not also using a drug that UV degrades. But UV is not uselful against ich, in general.

forrealb50
11/19/2009, 09:37 PM
I think you are heading in the right direction. The reason that I mentioned hyposalinity and copper is because the only parasite killing thing that you mentioned was your UV (for the fish in the QT now, not new fish...are there fish in the QT now or did they all die from ick?) and I just wanted to make sure you had the flow slow enough to do the job.

I have used copper in the past with no ill effects. I find that it is easiest to keep the right balance if you mix it in the water that you are going to do the waterchange with rather than mix it in the tank. For instance if you use coppersafe and it says mix 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons, its easy to get a 5 gallon bucket, mix your RO water and salt, then throw in the copper as opposed to trying to get the right balance mixing it directly in the tank.

Hyposalinity also works well, but just like copper or any other treatment, you need to keep an eye on your levels. It is necissary to keep the levels low enough to kill all of the different types of ick (assuming that you don't know specifically which you have) but not so low that it kills your fish.

Here is a good article about treatments:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

Putting new fish in a hyposalinity QT before introducing them into the DT should save you from a lot of trouble in the future. You are right on track there. Im just trying to make sure that if you have fish in the QT now that were infected with ick that they are cured before being reintroduced to the DT.

Thanks for the help. After more research copper seems like the safest bet to kill ich on any new fish. Life would be so simple if you could just add fish without the QT process...

krowleey
11/20/2009, 01:04 AM
Thanks for the help. After more research copper seems like the safest bet to kill ich on any new fish. Life would be so simple if you could just add fish without the QT process...

hyposalinity is the safest for the fish to treat for marine ich, copper creates stress for fish while hyposalinity reduces stress, and promotes fish to fight infections faster without worry of becoming dehydrated. it is more work for the hobbiest but much less stressful on fish. thats not my opinion but proven and documented fact.

seababy
11/20/2009, 09:41 PM
I have used APro Formalin it seems to take care of it.

seababy
11/20/2009, 09:42 PM
Careful it is very strong.

seababy
11/20/2009, 09:43 PM
It takes theO2 out of the H2O so you need to run some type of air stone while you are treating.

RBU1
11/21/2009, 09:19 AM
I would tend to lean towards 12 weeks of your tank being completly fishless. As far as treatment I would go with Cupramine in the treatment tank but make sure you add it slow. If your dosage amount in 10ml I would dose 2ml wait 48 hours to make sure the fish are still eating and acting normal, then add another 2ml and repeat till you get to the 10ml. Adding cupramine slow just insures your fish are going to tolerate it and if you see any negatives gives you time to remove the copper before you lose the fish.

g8gxp
11/23/2009, 11:21 AM
It is good that you plan to have nitrification in QT. But you have to think about whether it will be enough.

Just having a filter medium (circulating I hope) in DT for 4 months will achieve significant nitrification, but will it be enough? If you QT small bioload it may be enough. If you are trying to eradicate ich in an existing tank with many fish, it likely won't be enough. For me, I will never rely on just circulating in DT for filter medium intended for QT. I will always boost the nitrification capacity by cycling the medium separate from DT using a source of ammonia.

I will NEVER allow the nitrification capacity in QT to be an issue if I can prevent it. Generally, I can unless I need to use a drug that interferes with nitrification in QT; cooper is not one such drug.

Circulating in DT is a very convenient and good way to seed a medium, but does not create a very dense and active medium. Just think about it. In general, the DT ammonia concentration is near zero. An equilibrum is reached between the amount of ammonia generated and the population of nitrification bacteria. The bacteria population in the medium will never be ideally high and you remove needed bacteria from your DT when you transfer it to QT.

This way of scounging for nitrification bacteria from DT to be used in QT may be useful in a bind, but should not be something that you plan for.

You need to support all you fish in QT for eight weeks of active treatment, not observation, to eradicate ich. Enough nitrification is critical to the ease and effectiveness of this task.

UV is good to much reduce the incidents of external bacterial infection. I use it for this purpose whenever I am not also using a drug that UV degrades. But UV is not uselful against ich, in general.

so how do you maintain adquate nitrifying bacteria in a quarantine tank for 8 weeks? I ask because i am also getting ready to do this same procedure. As for copper or hypo, i've heard that hypo makes it very hard to maintain ph and such because of the decreased buffering capacity of the water. I hate the thought of making something swim around in a bath of copper but it seems like the only surefire way...

wooden_reefer
11/23/2009, 12:16 PM
so how do you maintain adquate nitrifying bacteria in a quarantine tank for 8 weeks? I ask because i am also getting ready to do this same procedure.

Cycle the filter medium intended for QT very well.

If you don't have fish to treat yet, you can cycle in the QT.

If you do now, cycle in a separate container. I prefer cycling in a separate container always, regardless.

Use bacteria seeds, a source of ammonia, circulate and promote gaseous exchange during cycling.

If you drip water over the medium (wet-dry) instead of having it submerged, the time to cycle is reduced to three weeks. Cycling is very very very easy. There is no need to change any water during cycling for QT.

I always cycle in a separate container using a small amount of water and then transfer the cycled medium to the tank, taking care of close enough water parameters of course.

You can QT a large number of fish against ich all at once if necessary. There will be no ammonia at all no matter what the bioload in QT is, in general (except when you have to use a drug that interferes with nitrification, copper is not such a drug.)

blennielove
11/28/2009, 04:14 PM
Greetings,
I recently moved my fishes out of DT and into a 55 gallon hospital tank. I'm going the hyposalinity route as I will not be getting Quinine Sulphate until Tuesday.
Questions:
1. SG at 1.013 now, should I continue to lower to 1.009, holding it there and add Quinine Sulphate, or should I be trying to bring the SG back up to 1.023 for Quinine?
2. I will be doing a water change tonight, would you add 1 ml/25 gallon of 37%formaldehye solution, wait 30 minutes then do a 20 gallon water change?
Thank you!

Frank789
11/28/2009, 10:10 PM
Greetings,
I recently moved my fishes out of DT and into a 55 gallon hospital tank. I'm going the hyposalinity route as I will not be getting Quinine Sulphate until Tuesday.
Questions:
1. SG at 1.013 now, should I continue to lower to 1.009, holding it there and add Quinine Sulphate, or should I be trying to bring the SG back up to 1.023 for Quinine?
2. I will be doing a water change tonight, would you add 1 ml/25 gallon of 37%formaldehye solution, wait 30 minutes then do a 20 gallon water change?
Thank you!

I started quinine during hyposalinity treatment and began raising salinity after starting quinine.

Quinine and formaldehyde together are most likely going to be harmful to your fish.

Call National Fish Pharmacy on Monday. They can answer your questions about quinine treatment.

blennielove
11/29/2009, 02:41 PM
I started quinine during hyposalinity treatment and began raising salinity after starting quinine.

Quinine and formaldehyde together are most likely going to be harmful to your fish.

Call National Fish Pharmacy on Monday. They can answer your questions about quinine treatment.

Thank You!!!:dance:
It is hard to figure out what to do sometimes. I hate it when my fishes are sick! They are eating better in HT now. I ordered my Quinine from National Fish Pharm. I will call them tomorrow.
Best wishes to you!