How do you know when its water change time?

[SATAN FISH]

I am just wondering WHY we need to change our water? In a fresh water system, you do it to get all of the fish poop and stuff like that out. On a reef tank, we have skimmers and carbon, and reactors and all kinds of fancy stuff to pull stuff out of the water.

I know water changes replace things like calcium and trace elements and stuff like that, but again, we can add that stuff as it is depleted. I also understand that water changes pull things like nitrites and nitrates, phosphates and all that stuff out too. But again, we can use other methods to get rid of that stuff if we really wanted.

I personally do 15% water changes on my tank twice a month because I know it should be done but...

Basically, why do we change our water? Other than a schedule, how do you know when it is time to do so?

[Sisterlimonpot]

The main reason is for nutrient export and replacing trace elements found in the salt mix.

I must confess after I started carbon dosing I haven't change my water in 4 months.

[SATAN FISH]

The main reason is for nutrient export and replacing trace elements found in the salt mix.

I must confess after I started carbon dosing I haven't change my water in 4 months.

Right, but again, there are trace element supplements and mechanical ways of pulling access nutrients.

[pangetikaw]

That's the only reason is for nutrients exchange and all that soo your saying if you have all that reactor and all that you don't need to do water change very interesting

[Sisterlimonpot]

Right, but again, there are trace element supplements and mechanical ways of pulling access nutrients.

Exactly. I think for new folks in the hobby it's good because they're not quite in tune with their tanks yet and water changes are more a preventive measure. My personal belief is that water changes aren't necessary as long as you can keep you N03 and P04 down to undetectable. But again that's where experience comes in. This subject is always up for debate and you’ll have galvanized opinions on both sides.

[Sisterlimonpot]

That's the only reason is for nutrients exchange and all that soo your saying if you have all that reactor and all that you don't need to do water change very interesting
That's what works for me. I don't push the more advanced ways in the NTTH forum because they are a bit more complicated and are more suited for people with more experience. Most try to keep things basic here.

[SATAN FISH]

I run a ETTS skimmer rated for 400gal max and a BRS GFO reactor. My skimmer hardly EVER puts out anything. My Nitrates are below 5ppm and my phosphates are now somewhere between .05 and .07ppm. My calcium is up around 500 as I top off with Kalk fairly often. I add sodium bicarbonate when my alkalinity gets low...

So yeah, I was just doing a water change and thought to myself, "Self, this salt is pretty pricey to be changing on a 125gallon... I know I should do this, but why?".

Therefore, I was unsure and started this thread so the seasoned reef keepers could express their opinions.

[cjj14u]

I have heard of systems with reactors, etc. that have been thriving for over a year without any H20 changes and all parameters remain perfect.....:hmm1:

[Sisterlimonpot]

with P04 levels like that I would work on getting them down to undetectable. but IMO your right, when parameters are steady save some money on water changes.

[SATAN FISH]

with P04 levels like that I would work on getting them down to undetectable. but IMO your right, when parameters are steady save some money on water changes.

Yeah, I don't know if you read that when it said .5 -.7 or after it when I fixed it to say .05 -.07(forgot the zero's). Either way, I am still working on getting them down to undetectable. Although, I have read that you should keep some PO4, like .03ppm or so.

[Sisterlimonpot]

Yeah, I don't know if you read that when it said .5 -.7 or after it when I fixed it to say .05 -.07(forgot the zero's). Either way, I am still working on getting them down to undetectable. Although, I have read that you should keep some PO4, like .03ppm or so.yeah I read .5-.7.

depending on what you have in your tank some N03 and P04 fine. sone softies and LPS like a little dirty water.

Back on topic: as long as the params are steady then WC aren't a necissity but still a recomendation if you aren't quite in tune with yor tank.

[SATAN FISH]

Note to self: If all parameters are in check and there are no problems, water changes can be minimal.

[Captain]

Do as I say, not as I do. My first 125 I did no water changes in 5 yrs. Added trace supps and natural nutrient export.

[rfalvey89]

cap'n what's in the 400 gal?

out of curiosity

[SATAN FISH]

Do as I say, not as I do. My first 125 I did no water changes in 5 yrs. Added trace supps and natural nutrient export.

Natural nutrient export like some form of macro algae? Like Chaetomorphia algae. Or is that even a macro algae?

[sedor]

Wow no WC in 5 Years! Seems like such of waste of the buckets and buckets of salt we buy :) I agree that with the proper equipment and a method of removing excess nutrients WC's would be unnecessary, but in the same way they don't hurt. Personally I like to use WC's as an excuse to really get into the tank, blow all the crap out of the rocks, scrape all that algae etc etc and siphon some of it out. In other words, as opposed to being necessary for my tank (i'm a vodka doser as well) it just gives me an opportunity to "sparkle" everything up and working on my tank a little helps me enjoy it more.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Note to self: If all parameters are in check and there are no problems, water changes can be minimal.

Can you give me a list of all the parameters you should be checking to make that assumption?

(This is a rhetorical question. :D )

[Captain]

I am a believer that many people are in too big a hurry in this hobby. They see a beautiful tank on the web and think they can get one today. How many millions of years for the oceans to develop? A person told me a long time ago, Nothing good happens in this hobby FAST,but bad things can. That is so true. In the eco system everything feeds and sustains something else. If things are balanced you should need to add nothing. If unbalanced things don't do well and even die. Even then it helps put some things back in balance over time.
Many people over DOCTOR their tanks and CAUSE problems. I used to use caulerpa, got tired of the sex thing. Use chaeto now. I am changing some things with my system. It's 240 DT with 100 gal sump and 60 gal frag tank ,both rubbermaid, all plumbed together. Sps,lps lots of tangs and wrasses. Built a new canopy to hold more lites. Enough rambling. One of the most expensive things in this hobby to aquire is PATIENCE.

[john32]

My LFS has a 750 gallon reef, he has not done a water change for a couple of years and both his Corals and Fish are in great condition. My new tank has only been up for 6 months and I have never changed water in it, with good results, so far. The only thing I dose is lime in my Auto top off.

[francis1123]

i went 9 months on my old 180g. i had a little algae, but ran a 60g fuge with tons of macro. my coral growth was excellent, fish were happy. only reason i did a water change is because i upgraded.
i now do water changes regularly because i'm trying to minimize my dosing of trace elements. it's important you pay attention to the needs of the reef if you don't want to do changes. CA reactors help with that a lot.

[Toddrtrex]

Right, but again, there are trace element supplements and mechanical ways of pulling access nutrients.

There are 70 some odd elements that make up salt water, good luck trying to figure out which have been used up and need to be replaced. The big 3 (( Cal, Alk and Mag )) are easy to test/dose, but after that.....


Note to self: If all parameters are in check and there are no problems, water changes can be minimal.

I personally disagree with that statement. Last March I couldn't do my weekly water changes for a month --- back surgery. And even though all my parameters were at 0 (( or where they needed to be )), things were starting to go down hill. Was able to have someone help me with a water change, and things started to pick up right after the WC.

There are so many things that are going on with our tanks that we can't test for, that stick with doing 5 gallons every week on all me tanks.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am just wondering WHY we need to change our water? In

My rationale is here:

Water Changes in Reef Aquaria
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php


from it:

Water changes are a good way to help control certain processes that serve to drive reef aquarium water away from its starting purity. Some things build up in certain situations (organics, certain metals, sodium, chloride, nitrate, phosphate, sulfate, etc.), and some things become depleted (calcium, magnesium, alkalinity, strontium, silica, etc.). Water changes can serve to help correct these imbalances, and in some cases may be the best way to deal with them. Water changes of 15-30% per month (whether carried out once a month, daily or continuously) have been shown in the graphs above to be useful in moderating the drift of these different seawater components from starting levels. For most reef aquaria, I recommend such changes as good aquarium husbandry. In general, the more the better, if carried out appropriately, and if the new salt water is of appropriate quality.

Calcium and alkalinity, being rapidly depleted in most reef aquaria, are not well controlled, or even significantly impacted by such small water changes. In order to maintain them with no other supplements, changes on the order of 30-50% PER DAY would be required. Nevertheless, that option may still be a good choice for very small aquaria, especially if the changes are slow and automatic.

[wooden_reefer]

WC in DT is a little like oil change for your car.

You do not measure to see if the detergent in it is gone, your do not check to see if the molecular structure of the oil has degraded, you go by a combination of time and miles of operation.

The idea is not very different.

[Ruskin]

There are 70 some odd elements that make up salt water, good luck trying to figure out which have been used up and need to be replaced. The big 3 (( Cal, Alk and Mag )) are easy to test/dose, but after that.....

I agree with that and it was the first thing I thought when I read the same quote you quoted. I have, and wont ever dose with a "trace elements" supplement. Perhaps some of the minor elements, but never something as broad as a trace element supplement.

I used to use caulerpa, got tired of the sex thing I think you may have been using the caulerpa a little different then the rest of us. /snicker

just kidding.

[lighthouze08]

i know it's time to do a water change when it's sunday night :-)

[Captain]

Size of the system would also have a lot to do with this. The smaller the system the less forgiving for mistakes.