Ich Breakout :(( Any Advice?

[bms270]

Hi All,

Introducing new fish and Ich breakout! Common issue. I have read some articles here. but I was wondering if I can feed the fish anything that makes their immune system stronger to survive the breakout. I am not going to treat the tank with copper or anything. Any advice?

[stevek480]

Can you move the fish to a separate QT tank and treat them there? Some people say garlic can help the fish fight disease.

[bms270]

Unfortunately I dont have any QT. should I just add some garlic powder in the tank or small chunks from the fresh garlic?

[laredo300c]

my hippo tang has gotten ich two times in three years and he has been cured by simply doing daily water changes, never used garlic( simply because i always forget to order some) and never used medications claiming to be reef safe. water changes has done it for me always...thanks

[stevek480]

I haven't tried it myself, but i think people just put small pieces of fresh garlic in for the fish to eat.

You may want to check out this thread for some different methods of treatment:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1500214&highlight=garlic

[Emoney]

Let it be if your fish are eating!!

[sfboarders]

They sell garlic additives (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_searchItem.aspx?SearchText=garlic&parsed=1). Soak the food in garlic and use Selcon or Zoecon.

[Chris27]

To answer the initial question, fish food should be supplemented with items like VitaChem or Zoe for vitamins, Zoecon for omega's / fatty acids, and garlic (Garlic Guard, Garlic Extreme) as a flavor enhancer. A well fed fish will have a good immune system which does help keep the fish healthy.

But

Water changes, garlic, super food, UV's and finger crossing will not rid Crypt from an aquarium. All the fish should be removed and placed in a QT for proper treatment. When people state that they have cured their fish with garlic it isn't true, it's only that the fish was able to fight it off with a strong immune system. All may be good and well, perhaps for a very long time, but even a fish with a very strong immune system will eventually succumb to Crypt at some point due to stress, open wound, etc...Crypt will always be present in a system so long as there is a fish host.

The life-cycle of the parasite must be broken, this can be done in the DT simply by leaving it fishless for a month or two and in QT with Hyposalinity or Copper. By properly QT'ing and understanding of the life-cycle, successful fish keeping is very easy in the long run.

Good Luck and keep that fish eating - when the parasite has set in on the gills and body all the fish can do is fight, which is much easier to do with a full belly!

[wooden_reefer]

"it's only that the fish was able to fight it off with a strong immune system."

IMO, the whole idea of boosting immune system per se and against ich is fanciful.

Garlic may be a medication like many herbs but few things in the world actually boost immunity, beyond nutritional adequacy. Garlic may have an effect on ich, but it would be a medication, not immunity boosting.

For ich in the confinement of a tank, re-infestation is the dominant factor.

[wooden_reefer]

Hi All,

Introducing new fish and Ich breakout! Common issue. I have read some articles here. but I was wondering if I can feed the fish anything that makes their immune system stronger to survive the breakout. I am not going to treat the tank with copper or anything. Any advice?

If your interest is many fish, QT is completely necessary.

You will likely lose many more fish if you don't QT.

To fight this existing ich outbreak, you have to treat fish actively in QT.

Eventual eradication of ich involves treating ALL fish actively in QT for eight weeks and allowing the DT to be fishless for eight weeks.

Having enough nitrification in QT during treatment for eight weeks is critical to the ease and effectiveness in eradication of ich for eight weeks of QT.

Think of starting a cycle in a separate container now. It is very easy and critical.

Treat infested fish in a QT without nitrification now to prevent death, and then think of permanent eradication after your cycle in a separate contain is done, in 3-5 weeks depending on the setup during cycling.

Newbies are unlikely to fight against ich in a reef tank without any loses. Many just do not yet have the mindset against ich and the skills.

[bms270]

All you say is right, I have read good articles about ich and now Im pretty familiar with the issues and understand that most methods cant stop the ich from coming back. My problem is that I have 13 fish in 125G tank (they are small fish though) and quarantining all of them requires another big tank. IMO putting these sick fish in the stress of a new tank without enough place to hide and good circulation and controlling the BIO load is not an easy thing to do. Doing this for 8 weeks is another issue. Thinking about their natural life, how do they survive from ich in their natural habitat? Does anybody quarantine them from the ich in the reef?

[asonitez]

I have a 125. I Have 4 Qurantine 10 Gal tanks plumbed together for 12 (Relatively Small Fish - Anthias- 2 tangs - Gobies). I Dipped, Fed Heavily in qurantine, had a great amounts of nitrifing bacteria, ran ozone, ran uv, and treated with copper for 2 weeks. I added the fish 2 fish at a time every week. To a tank that already had a cleaner crew and had been running for 2.5 months. Tangs were last. I had ich in the main tank after the first week. I continued feeding heavily and waited it out. A Week later ich was gone and fish looked great. Since no one had spots I started a regimen of Kick-Ich for a period of 2 weeks. I have not had a problem since. I belive in qurantine to ward off more dangerous diseases like oodinium or brook or parasites or something like that. However, it is my experience that ICH exists everywhere. From every pet store, and in every owners tank. The health and life of your fish depends on their diet your water care, and the patience in which you deal with the tank. I have never bashed anyone for not qurantining in the first place because frankly.....I did everything right this is my 4th tank. 3 Times to learn my lesson and I still got it. Many ppl SWEAR they never got Ich and these are the main ppl FOR qurantine but we all know they did at some point. Either minor or they are the statistic. Thats my honest opinion on the matter. I would not stress your fish. Feed heavily more times per day with good food. Perform water changes to suit. I've used Kick-Ich with no negative side effects but YMMV.

[wooden_reefer]

All you say is right, I have read good articles about ich and now Im pretty familiar with the issues and understand that most methods cant stop the ich from coming back. My problem is that I have 13 fish in 125G tank (they are small fish though) and quarantining all of them requires another big tank. IMO putting these sick fish in the stress of a new tank without enough place to hide and good circulation and controlling the BIO load is not an easy thing to do. Doing this for 8 weeks is another issue. Thinking about their natural life, how do they survive from ich in their natural habitat? Does anybody quarantine them from the ich in the reef?

It would have been a rather easy thing to do (at least not very hard) if you had planned ahead.

The problem now is that even if you start a cycle now in another container to support ALL the fish for eight weeks in QT, the cycle won't be complete in less than 3 weeks, even if you use the wet-dry setup to cycle.

In fact, I generally do so and stock fish quickly by choice. (Newbies don't try).

During an existing ich outbreak, even the newbie has no choice but to plan to treat a lot of fish in QT at once. This is like learning the ropes during urgent necesscity or baptism by fire.

If you cycle using the seed and waste method, as different from the stale and outdated gradual method, you can handle any bioload at once in QT against ich without amminia, in general.

Some fish may not eat well and many tankmates will fight in a small tank. This is a separate consideration. When all fish are strangers to each other, fighting is less severe.

You should start a cycle in a separate container now, starting with as much bacteria as you can scounge from the DT as a little more than just seeds.

You can bear out three weeks of WC in QT for ALL fish and then switch to the cycled medium you just made.

Or you can also now treat only fish that are at risk of dying in QT with frequent water change. You may even return them to the DT after no obvious ich is seen. All these just to bide time for the cycle to complete. After the cycle is done you can rigorously eradicate ich with the cycled medium in QT.

[stingythingy45]

"Thinking about their natural life, how do they survive from ich in their natural habitat? Does anybody quarantine them from the ich in the reef?"

They are not in a captive system along with the parasite.
It is more or less like ticks on a dog in the wild.Sometimes they get infected,sometimes they don't.Ich may drop off the fish and encapsulate and the fish may move on.

You should QT all fish before introducing them to the display.

You should do a search for Steven Pro and ich.There's some very good articles from him on the net.

[wooden_reefer]

"Thinking about their natural life, how do they survive from ich in their natural habitat? Does anybody quarantine them from the ich in the reef?"



A reef is not five walls with confinement. There is no re-infestation due to confinement.

Any aquarist should be very keenly aware of the confinement effect, the lack of dilution of the ocean, of any tank. This is a very basic and critical understanding in fish keeping, especially disease control.

This applies not only to ich and kindred kinds, but also to external bacterial infections.

In fact, in general rapidly progressing diseases are much dominated by the confinement effect.

[wooden_reefer]

I have a 125. I Have 4 Qurantine 10 Gal tanks plumbed together for 12 (Relatively Small Fish - Anthias- 2 tangs - Gobies). I Dipped, Fed Heavily in qurantine, had a great amounts of nitrifing bacteria, ran ozone, ran uv, and treated with copper for 2 weeks. .

For fish, eight weeks of continuous treatment, not observation. For inverts, 8 weeks of fishlessness.

Two weeks will not be enough.

UV is good against bacterial infections, when an antibiotic is not in used.

[asonitez]

For fish, eight weeks of continuous treatment, not observation. For inverts, 8 weeks of fishlessness.

Two weeks will not be enough.

UV is good against bacterial infections, when an antibiotic is not in used.

Understood, I did treat them for 6 weeks total but only 2 weeks with copper. In the mean time I concentrated on corals and my scape. I dunno guys, Ich is like the plague... The best of the best get it even with adequate treatment. It's everywhere and its a little disheartening to know this but I don't think any tank is safe even with qurantine. I'm not bashing qurantine and I still practice it however, i never get on someone because they didn't do it. 90% of the time they unknowningly bought a seemingly healthy specimen that was harboring the plague.

[sfilipowski]

although a newbie.. one year all is good(knock on wood) My purple psudochromis spelling? got ich early on and it would look better one day and appear to get worse the next other than freak out i did nothing but increase water changes like two or three a week about 10% each time and it went away I only have a 34gal but there is nothing like perfect water to control most problems

[wooden_reefer]

Understood, I did treat them for 6 weeks total but only 2 weeks with copper. In the mean time I concentrated on corals and my scape. I dunno guys, Ich is like the plague... The best of the best get it even with adequate treatment. It's everywhere and its a little disheartening to know this but I don't think any tank is safe even with qurantine. I'm not bashing qurantine and I still practice it however, i never get on someone because they didn't do it. 90% of the time they unknowningly bought a seemingly healthy specimen that was harboring the plague.

I have not had a single case of ich for well over 20 years. Eradication works.

ALL fish, and any water, from comercial sources should be presumed to have ich. Don't bother to observe for ich in new fish, except to or not to buy it.

For fish, you do not just observe, you treat continuously against ich in QT for eight weeks.

[Kevin McRae]

Garlic Guard is amazing.

My yellow tang got quite a bit of ich after he was stressed. I used garlic guard once per day and after about 4 days the ich was all gone.

Can get it at any saltwater supplies store.

[wooden_reefer]

Garlic Guard is amazing.

My yellow tang got quite a bit of ich after he was stressed. I used garlic guard once per day and after about 4 days the ich was all gone.

Can get it at any saltwater supplies store.

Garlic is an herb and can have some effect on ich.

But bear in mind that ich drop of on their own.

And, what drop off can come back in a big wave later.

Good luck.

I don't discount the possibility that ich can be of some value is slowing the spread of ich.