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krazysvede
11/27/2009, 06:45 PM
I need some help figuring out what Im up against. I have a pair of clowns that started showing signs of something last night. They look like zits like a teenager would get. It is a small single white dot on the female and 2 on the male. They are on the back fin on each fish. It doenst look like velvet or ich. There is also a sixline wrasse in the tank and so far he seems ok. All fish are active and eating well and show no signs of stress or heavy breathing. Ill get pictures up as soon as the camera battery is recharged. Any ideas?

All fish were just added back into my display after having been fallow for 12 weeks following an ich outbreak.

Parameters are
pH 8.4
amm 0
nitrate 0
nitrite ~0-5
temp 79.5*

I did find this tidbit over at wetwebmedia

Zit cream for clownfish: Reef safe?-
I've got a male (presumably) clownfish that has been suffering chronic breakouts resembling acne. <Yikes!> He eats and behaves normally as far as I can tell however!?!?
http://www.zoyzoy.com/aquarium/images/Clown%20with%20Skin%20Sores.jpg <The link is bad>
Some have suggested lymphocystis. He gets over each sore but new ones always show up. Its been a couple months like this I would guess. <Lymph, in my experience, is usually caused by exposure to too much copper. It's not harmful, each white blob is simply a grossly enlarged cell loaded with the virus. These cells can actually be removed by hand, if you're careful, but since they really don't pose a health problem to the fish it's better just to leave them alone.>
Any other thoughts....treatment options etc? <Send another link to that picture w/ a copy of this email, I'd hate to guess at the marine-acne w/out a picture to look at. - Kevin>
Tanks, tanks a lot! Jeff

RBU1
11/27/2009, 07:14 PM
You left your tank fallow for 12 weeks...What did you treat the fish with while in the treatment tank?

Reefer2727
11/27/2009, 07:52 PM
tagging along.

krazysvede
11/27/2009, 10:11 PM
Yes, the tank was fallow for 12 weeks. I treated with Cupramine.

RBU1
11/28/2009, 06:19 AM
Yes, the tank was fallow for 12 weeks. I treated with Cupramine.

OK what level did you treat with the cupramine and what was the duration of the treatment?

Reefer2727
11/28/2009, 07:11 AM
I may be in a similiar situtation. I just treated my 2 clowns for ich using hyposalinity. They are still in QT 10 weeks later. I am now slowly bringing the salinity back up and have noticed a couple of sores on the smaller one. (Male). They tend to go away but seem to come back. Only on the male. When salinity gets back up I planned on treating them with Cupramine for 2 weeks. Now Im not sure what to do.

RBU1
11/28/2009, 07:52 AM
I may be in a similiar situtation. I just treated my 2 clowns for ich using hyposalinity. They are still in QT 10 weeks later. I am now slowly bringing the salinity back up and have noticed a couple of sores on the smaller one. (Male). They tend to go away but seem to come back. Only on the male. When salinity gets back up I planned on treating them with Cupramine for 2 weeks. Now Im not sure what to do.

There are several opinons out there and you do whats right for you. I personally am not a fan of hypo. Inorder for it to be succesful you need to make sure the salinity stays in the 1.008 to 1.009 range no more or less. The PH is a pain in the neck to maintain in low salinity and so are some other things causing you to have to do frequent water changes. I was using a product by Seachem called paraguard and thought that could be the answer. Safer then copper and advertised to kill parasites and other things. After a discussion on RC I felt it better to treat the fish in copper to reduce my risk of reinfecting my main tank for the 3rd time......So after I did a 4 week Paraguard treatment I am now doing a 4 week cupramine treatment. When using Cupramine you want to keep the fish in a level of .5 for at least 3 weeks prefer 4 but Seachem suggests 3 weeks.

So if you are asking my opinion I would get your salinity back to normal range and leave it there for a week or so to let things stable before adding the cupramine. I would also space the dose of Cupramin out further than Seachem suggests. I think the directions on the bottle will tell you the amount to dose based on your gallons of water. Then they will tell you to half dose wait 48 hours then the remainder. I suggest half of the half dose 48 hours then the other half dose and so on till you get the full dosage amount in. During the addition of the copper constantly monitor the fish for any stress due to the copper. When you get to treatment range of .5 I would leave it there for 4 weeks. Good Luck....

Reefer2727
11/28/2009, 08:29 AM
What a pain in the butt this is. I figured hyposalinity would be the safest and I did have to do countless water changes. They looked great and I thought it was done. I kept the salinity exactly where I had to for 6 weeks. What I am seeing now isnt a big deal but I want to be sure that they are clean before they return to the DT. Currently these are the only 2 fish I have. So there isnt a huge risk of reinfecting the DT other than having to pull them and treat them again. I have heard some Cupramine horror stories also. My concern is that they may have something that the copper can't take care of. As Krazysvede said, he treated using Cupramine and it obviously didnt take care of the problem.

Anyway, Im not sure that I have the patience for yet another month in QT. Especially considering it is so hard to diagnose what is going on. The female is very aggressive towards the male and perhaps these marks are just wounds or stress caused by the constant beating it is taking in the 20 gallon QT. The female looks perfect and doesnt have a mark on her. Once the salt is back to normal I will give it a week or so and see where I stand. I have a bad feeling that I will be in the same boat after a month of Cupramine treating. Very frustrating to say the least.

Sorry for hijacking the thread but Krazy and I seem to be in a very similiar situation.

RBU1
11/28/2009, 09:15 AM
Can you take a picture of it?

Reefer2727
11/28/2009, 09:36 AM
I will try.

Krazysvede...do you have a pic if your clowns? I would like to see what they look like.

Reefer2727
11/28/2009, 09:44 AM
I tried taking a pic but nothing shows up. The male has 2 little white marks which seem to be getting better. They are a little bigger than the salt grain type ich spot. Almost seems like they are a small white scale or something. Pretty hard to see at all. Perhaps it is nothing to worry about. I will continue to keep an eye on them. I am leaning towards not treating them with copper as it may just stress them out more. I am hoping they are wound type marks from the female taking runs at him. Maybe if I get them into the day tank where there is much more room they will be better off.

RBU1
11/28/2009, 10:24 AM
I tried taking a pic but nothing shows up. The male has 2 little white marks which seem to be getting better. They are a little bigger than the salt grain type ich spot. Almost seems like they are a small white scale or something. Pretty hard to see at all. Perhaps it is nothing to worry about. I will continue to keep an eye on them. I am leaning towards not treating them with copper as it may just stress them out more. I am hoping they are wound type marks from the female taking runs at him. Maybe if I get them into the day tank where there is much more room they will be better off.


I would get your salinity back to normal and keep an eye on them for a week or so. If you feel good about it let them in the tank...

Reefer2727
11/28/2009, 10:28 AM
Sounds like a good plan.

RBU1
11/28/2009, 10:35 AM
Sounds like a good plan.

Good luck

krazysvede
11/28/2009, 10:58 PM
Sorry, got caught up in black friday and saturday I work in retail...

I treated at .5 for 6 weeks. The copper level was raised gradually over the 1st week. I went to .1 then 48 hours then to .2 then 48 hours... you get the idea. The lights have been off for a bit now and the clowns are sleeping in their corner ill see if I can get a pic now that they arent as active. I tried yesterday but they just moved too much. Gimme a minute. :)

krazysvede
11/28/2009, 11:13 PM
ok nothing shows in the pic ill need a camera with better zoom. ill borrow a friends slr tomorrow and see if i can get better pics. It looks exactly like a pimple a kid would get. They have decreasd in size on the male clown, the one on the female appears to be the same size, they are not anything attached to the scales of the fish but rather something coming up from under them (i know i keep saying this but, they look like a pimple). both are still eating well and were as active as always before I left for work this morning. will post a pic asap tomorrow. oh, still no signs of anything on the sixline and i just caught and moved the clowns back into my hosp tank... thats all for now

krazysvede
12/14/2009, 10:34 AM
Well ive finally gotten some pictures where whatever this is is visible. Like Ive said before, its doesnt appear to be on the fish, but mor like a pimple or cyst in the fish.

I pulled the clowns on the 28th and put them in QT. I didnt medicate with anything while in QT. This infection or whatever you want to call it went away overnight. I left the fish until yesterday, never saw signs of anything on them. Added them in before work yesterday came home from work 9 hours later and both clowns have this same problem again. Both clowns are still eating well and are active.

My guess is something in the tank is irritating them. I use rodi, do a 5 gallon wc every friday. Also still no signs anything is wrong with the sixline or jawfish in the tank.

Anybody have any ideas what this is? Heres the pics.

The pictures are horrible I know, look at the tail.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k237/iconner_2006/DSC00933.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k237/iconner_2006/DSC00976.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k237/iconner_2006/DSC00977.jpg

RBU1
12/14/2009, 11:55 AM
Really hard to see in the pictures. If the fish are only showing a spot or 2 I would not be that concerned. In my expierience you will se a great deal more than 1 or 2 spots with ich.

krazysvede
12/14/2009, 01:43 PM
I know its hard to see, my camera keeps trying to focus on the rocks behond the fish instead of the fish... :( Its really odd that it comes and goes so fast. They did just discover my RBTA so its possible it could be from that I guess. Both seem healthy and active. Im really more curious than concerned to be honest. Thats one of the reason I love this hobby, theres always something new popping up to think about.

Arkayology
12/14/2009, 06:29 PM
I too have a clown that has something, white bulges to be exact. I am about 75% sure it is lymphocystis. From what little I can see in your pics, your clown's bumps would get much larger if it had this virus. I am not sure what will happen with my clown as I have no QT and he is the only fish in my DT. I am going to let it pass and wait a month or two and see if it comes back.

Since yours goes away only to return again, I would think that is a virus or bacteria going through a life cycle? Just my .02 though.