Is this stand safe?

[nebraskareef]

Hey guys,

I picked up a 180 with stand and canopy recently. The only thing that concerns me is the stand itself. What can be done in order to make this "safe"? It's been up on this stand for some amount of time, but I'd really feel more comfortable if I could beef it up or re-build it somehow. The skin is in decent shape so I'd like to save it if all possible. I'm not much of a wood worker.

Thanks for any advice you guys can give me. My wife has been on me to get this thing setup!

[billdogg]

Being that most DIY stands are hopelessly over built, (mine included) I'd say it is probably ok. Is the top frame 2x2? That is the only part that looks suspect to me, but it seems to have more than enough uprights, so that, as long as its flat, should pose no problem either. JM.02

[nebraskareef]

the uprights are ONLY in the back. There is one dead center in the front of the tank, between the doors of the stand. The short side has nothing for the edge to rest on. I suppose I could put some additional uprights in there on the side for it to rest on, but after reading the stand calculator thread I'm just a bit scared that the 2x2's are enough..

Thanks so much for your input!

[cobra77]

it looks good to me

[Chris27]

The weight of the tank will only rest on the ends, so anything to firm it up in the middle won't be necessary. If anything, maybe add a 2x4 on each end to help ease your mind.

[nebraskareef]

The weight of the tank will only rest on the ends, so anything to firm it up in the middle won't be necessary. If anything, maybe add a 2x4 on each end to help ease your mind.

Chris,

I'm having a hard time picturing what you are suggesting. Can you try to explain exactly where you would suggest putting this? As the front to back have no top support, the tank essentially "floats" on the sides, and with only 1 2x2 in the center of the front span, it's a little nerve racking.

I appreciate all your suggestions, input!

-Daniel

[lostanime]

Check out the perfecto pine stands. We bought ours new with stand. The stand looked like 1x2s for the most part with occasional 1x4s here and there. We kept it on that stand for a couple years before moving the tank to another room and redoing everything (new stand is all 2x6s and 4x6s, but this is way overkill... did it this way so I could get away with minimal bracing despite being much taller then original stand)

I wouldn't be particularly worried about the stand your posting pics of, unless it doesn't feel solid or your planning on doing something that will rock it (i.e. wave makers)

[billdogg]

I took a closer look here at home - I did not see that there was no support on the ends. THAT IS NOT SAFE!!!!!!!!!!! IT WILL FAIL!!!!!!!!

A tank with plastic trim MUST be supported around it's entire perimeter!!!!!!!!! NO EXCEPTIONS!!!!!! A glass tank without trim or any acrylic tank should have a solid base for support.

[lostanime]

A tank with plastic trim MUST be supported around it's entire perimeter!!!!!!!!! NO EXCEPTIONS!!!!!! A glass tank without trim or any acrylic tank should have a solid base for support.

I hope this doesn't come across as rude... but the first stand supported our tank with three wood beams front to back (one on each end and one in the middle)... this was the stand from the manufacturer that came with the tank (marineland/perfecto)

Based on this, I would believe at least for that particular dimension (6'x2'x2') that manufacturer seemed to think it was appropriate to support the tank only on the ends and the center.

[HUNGER]

it looks fine to me

[am3gross]

i would add some 2X4s just to help me sleep at night... i built my sytand and though it may be overkill i dont have to worry about the kids running in to and knocking it over!!!

[customcolor]

add some 2x4s on the ends going from front to back and put some 2x4s going from right under the first 2x4s i stated, to the floor....then put the whole thing on TOP of a sheet of 3/4" plywood....that way the weight will be distributed better over the floor then ill give it a thums up.

[Jersey Bounce]

If you're worried about whether or not the stand will be adequate, ask yourself which you'd regret more; taking the time to reinforce the stand or taking your chances and finding out the hard way that it wasn't enough.

I don't see how being "over built" is bad. The alternative could be much, much worse. ;)

[arredondojason]

when i built my 240G tank stand i didnt risk it I used 4x4 for my support beams like 15 all the way around I also used 2x4s as well.

[nebraskareef]

If you're worried about whether or not the stand will be adequate, ask yourself which you'd regret more; taking the time to reinforce the stand or taking your chances and finding out the hard way that it wasn't enough.

I don't see how being "over built" is bad. The alternative could be much, much worse. ;)

Oh, I'm ALL for reinforcing the stand, but wanted to see what others thought in relation to how much and where it should be done.

I continue to appreciate the input and will let you guys know what I end up doing.

Thanks again!

[Rhodophyta]

If you want to reinforce it, put several layers of fiberglass inside it. That will hold everything together, stiffen the wood and make it waterproof. And not end up compromising the designed structure with screw holes and wood that may not really be helping much, even hurting the stand.

[kenhuang6269]

2x4 is more safe~~~~~~~

[Jersey Bounce]

Oh, I'm ALL for reinforcing the stand, but wanted to see what others thought in relation to how much and where it should be done.

I continue to appreciate the input and will let you guys know what I end up doing.

Thanks again!

Gotchya.

If I were to be rebuilding/altering that stand to trust with that much water in my house, I'd start by removing all of the 2x2s so that you just have the cabinet end panels, face frame, and doors left along with the top and bottom trim molding (basically everything that's been stained/finished). I've broken SPF 2x2s over my knee before, so I usually don't tend to think of them as being real valuable for load-bearing construction. Anyway, after removing all of the 2x2s, I would build a new frame that fits inside of what's left (the cosmetic 'shell' if you will). I would start by putting a vertical 2x6 at each corner as well as one centered in the back and one in the front behind the centered upright of the cabinet face frame between the two sets of doors. Doing so will slightly shrink the usable opening behind each set of doors, but won't affect the cosmetic appearance of the stand when the doors are closed. Make sure all 2x6s are the exact same length and all rest on the floor when the stand is in its final destination. Then I would construct a new top frame all the way around using doubled up 2x4s. One course of 2x4s would be positioned between the 2x6 uprights; the second course would [ideally] create a rectangle made of only four boards that fits inside the first (outer) course of 2x4s. Once those are tacked/clamped into place, I would use screws--not nails--long enough to go straight through both 2x4s and into the cabinet face frame and end panels--thus solidifying all of the cabinet material into one solid structure. Assuming the tank has plastic trim around the bottom, I'd like to cover the new construction that the tank would be sitting on with 1/4-3/8" oak or birch (because it's more dense than pine or luan, and less likely to swell if damp like MDF) that has been treated with a water sealant like Thompson's. That would just help ensure that the actual bottom of the tank is sitting on a level, uniform surface. High spots and low spots, or un-level spans in a stand are frequently the main culprits in causing tanks to fail.

Like I said before, I'm sure some would say such a design would be "over built" and what you already have may hold, but it's not too hard to significantly lessen the risk of disaster! Keep in mind that a stocked 180 can easily weigh over a ton.

I know it's not very detailed, but here's (http://paulsagereptiles.com/images/Before Today.jpg) part of the stand (before the other stud wall was installed) I built for my 96" 250 gallon room divider tank. Overkill? Yeah, probably. But I didn't lose any sleep while the RO/DI was filling it up over two days while I was away!

Oh, I just found the picture of the finished stud wall (http://paulsagereptiles.com/images/Framing Finished.jpg) (so to speak--it's really just there to add support and a serve as a frame to mount the cabinet face frame and doors to). The vertical 2x6s placed next to the sides of the aquarium running from the floor stringer to the ceiling stringer were also secured into the actual stand to help reinforce everything. Again, more overkill! :p

[Rhodophyta]

I am from a multi-generational family of builders and carpenters, so when someone says they are "not much of a wood worker", I tend to believe them.

Adding two by fours, two by sixes and four by fours is not the way to go, and especially not the way to go is tearing out all the two by twos and replacing them with bigger lumber.

Fiberglassing the inside and bottom of the stand will accomplish much more than lumber-mania would. It does not require any carpentry skills. It is closer to putting on wallpaper in skill set, and yet it protects the wood and a two by two coated on accessible sides with several layers of fiberglass and resin tying it in to others is more than a match for any two by four, especially in the potentially humid environment under an aquarium.

And apologies to some of you, but I also tend to believe "not much of a wood worker", when I read about overengineered but instead just see wood thrown at the stand design. Like politicians throwing money at a problem instead of understanding or fixing it. Some of you don't even know what that horizontal top center board is for. It is not support or a brace. It is bridging which helps keep the two boards it's attached to from twisting over time. Again sorry, but we should be trying to make our stands better, not trying to compete with this guy....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMUgUn-rdz8

[NaClH2Opgh]

My concern with the horizontal piece is that if the ends of the stand are not supported then it would put stress on the bottom middle of the tank. As for over building a stand, your the one that has to sleep in the house so whatever makes you sleep better. You obviously don't feel comfortable with the way the stand is. I would overbuild the stand and sleep like a baby then wonder what might happen down the road. I would reference this:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1567110&highlight=rocket+engineer

I just got a used 220 that I will be putting up and I can guarantee you I will over build the stand.

[nebraskareef]

I have read the rocket stand thread many, many times. I just really need to come up with a way to make minor modifications, or additions to make what I have as sound as possible. Would a sketch-up rendering with dimensions help? I'm not that familiar with the program but I could try to whip something up.

[NySharkBait]

When you're dealing with 1000+ lbs and $2000+ there is no such thing as overkill. My stand, 73"x19"x36" weighs rougly 200lbs in 2x4's alone. I have kids and a german shepherd so I'm not risking it falling. I doubled up everything and included metal braces on the top. It might be more then most, but I NEVER have to worry about it not holding up. MHO

[Rhodophyta]

When you're dealing with 1000+ lbs and $2000+ there is no such thing as overkill. My stand, 73"x19"x36" weighs rougly 200lbs in 2x4's alone. I have kids and a german shepherd so I'm not risking it falling. I doubled up everything and included metal braces on the top. It might be more then most, but I NEVER have to worry about it not holding up. MHO

Doubling things up randomly and adding metal braces tends to complicate connections and adds new potential failure points. Overkill kills.

It does serve the function of your never having to worry about it, but that confidence is misplaced. Maybe not your stand, but pretty much every stand this instinctive approach is used on is less dependable and more failure prone than a better thought out design.

[nebraskareef]

Is the consensus to leave the 2x2's in place and simply add a 2x4 for the short currently unsupported ends of the tank, with 2x4' verticals under those new pieces? If that is the case, would glue/clamps be the best way to attach the horizontal spans?

Thanks again guys, my wife is really on my butt to get this up and going.

I'm also going to paint and seal the inside of the tank, as you can see there is a bit of water damage on some of the skin.

I'm all ears guys!

[Flanders]

I personally would not put a 180 anywhere near this stand. I would trash it and build a new one.