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View Full Version : Yet another Carbon dosing Q (sorry)


JustinReef
12/01/2009, 03:25 PM
I hate to start a new carbon dosing thread but I have read many, many threads over the past few days and can't figure out whats going on with my tank.

I started carbon dosing in my sps dominated 34G Solana tank. EuroReef skimmer, does a great job, even better after dosing vodka.

I do weekly 5G water changes and will continue to regardless of carbon dosing.

I had absolutely no algae problems before dosing and not even much of a noticeable nutrient level (from what I can test).

NO3 started at about 5 (Elos)
PO4 started about .05 (but not a very accurate test kit) (Elos)

My sps were ok, but not the greatest colors, kind of dark. I only have 4 very small fish which eat just pellets a few times a day. Light load IMO.

I thought since I will most likely overstock the tank (always do) a little and I do have some nitrates, I would try vodka dosing.

Started a week and a half ago at .1 ml. Got a bloom the next day which I thought was crazy since I started with such a low dose. Went away throughout that day so I dosed again the next. No bloom this time. That first week, the corals started to lighten pretty quickly. Thought it may be a little too quick but I continued anyways.

Upped the dose sunday to .2 ml. Got a small bloom again. Not that noticeable but there. Few more days have gone past and a few of my acros are getting VERY pale. Cut back to .1ml again.

Im not sure what to do at this point.

I need to go get a new test kit for phosphate but last I checked, the tank was undetectable with the kit I had. No algae anywhere. Had a tiny patch of hair algae in one corner but it died off.

NO3, undetectable as well.

Could they really drop this fast? A week?

If so, no wonder the corals are not happy. I am just surprised with such a low dose, that could happen.

I should mention, while a few acros look pale, one mille has darkened. Some have just kind of stayed the same. This is what confuses me. Any reason they are all acting so differently?

bertoni
12/01/2009, 04:23 PM
I think it's quite possible that the nitrate has dropped to undetectable levels over that period. Personally, I'd stop dosing and see how the corals respond, but carbon dosing in our systems is a complicated issue.

tmz
12/01/2009, 07:07 PM
I agree and would stop dosing. Personaly with PO4 at .05ppm and nitrates at 5ppm when you started I don't think I would have dosed vodka at all.

JustinReef
12/01/2009, 07:51 PM
I don't really want to stop at this point. Many of the corals have improved during this time as well. The few that are getting too pale, went through a time for a few days where they looked amazing. I think I just need to find a balance here.

I had my LFS double check my water and they got:

Alk 6.5
Ca 500
No3 0
Po4 0 (checked 2 times)


So I am cutting the dosage back now to .5ml and will see if that works as a maintenance dose.

Also going to start amino acids. Ended up going with the brightwell aquatics.

I had run ZEO for a year on my last tank but never got quite to this point. My No3 was never below 5. Much bigger tank with a big bioload though.

Having said all that, if you guys really think I should stop, I will consider it.

Most likely though, I am just going to end up going with the full brightwell aquatics line instead. Would this be safer? I have heard the carbon source is very weak. I know someone who used it and said he could dump a ton of the stuff in the tank and never get a bloom.

JustinReef
12/01/2009, 07:57 PM
I agree and would stop dosing. Personaly with PO4 at .05ppm and nitrates at 5ppm when you started I don't think I would have dosed vodka at all.

Ok, I was under the impression that NO3 may be best undetectable and PO4 ideally at .01 ppm.

Any I wrong?

harper
12/01/2009, 09:17 PM
Seems that many of us are at the same point. Start C dosing, get levels really low, corals lighten, look nice, then get too pale. Most suggest using AA's to darken them a bit. If I decrease the amount of C the corals just get darker...Maybe there is a magic point. But I think more is going on with the crazy colors we see in some of these Zeo/etc systems. Metals, Zeolite, other magic potions... So many things everyone is trying to reverse engineer, or just get a handle on whats going on. What is real and what is just marketing junk? A good deal has to do with picking very colorful SPS' to start, just look at Tyree's tank pics. You ran Zeo, did you ever get specific color reactions from your corals to the zeo additions?
Not any help here...

tmz
12/02/2009, 12:31 AM
Ok, I was under the impression that NO3 may be best undetectable and PO4 ideally at .01 ppm.

Any I wrong?
I don't think you are wrong. Nitrate in the range of 0.2ppm or less is often noted as natural reef levels with PO4 sub .03ppm for limiting macroalgae.

However, I don't think the addition of extra organic carbon which can be harmful is worth the risk for marginal gains on already low N and P levels.My system is a mixed reef with a relatively high number of well fed fish . With moderate carbon dosing I maintain PO4 at about .05ppm with nitrate in the range of 2ppm to 4ppm. Sps do very well at these levels without appreciable nuisance algae.For me carbon dosing is a means to maintain acceptably low levels of N and P. The least amount of organic carbon I can dose to do so the better in my opinion.

JustinReef
12/02/2009, 12:40 AM
Seems that many of us are at the same point. Start C dosing, get levels really low, corals lighten, look nice, then get too pale. Most suggest using AA's to darken them a bit. If I decrease the amount of C the corals just get darker...Maybe there is a magic point. But I think more is going on with the crazy colors we see in some of these Zeo/etc systems. Metals, Zeolite, other magic potions... So many things everyone is trying to reverse engineer, or just get a handle on whats going on. What is real and what is just marketing junk? A good deal has to do with picking very colorful SPS' to start, just look at Tyree's tank pics. You ran Zeo, did you ever get specific color reactions from your corals to the zeo additions?
Not any help here...

Zeo worked well for me. It just cost a lot to maintain and I wasn't really sure what was doing what. My mistake was using too many additives at once and then never knowing which were helping and which were doing nothing. I highly doubt I needed to dose all that I was. I should have tried one at a time (other than the main basics) and see how it went and what it did for the tank. That tank was 275G as well so the cost was a lot more than my current 34G would be.

I have thought of trying zeo again but I don't have a way to use a reactor really. I would have to put them in a filter bag passively in the back of my tank (its an all in one). Don't know if this would even work?

I don't think you are wrong. Nitrate in the range of 0.2ppm or less is often noted as natural reef levels with PO4 sub .03ppm for limiting macroalgae.

However, I don't think the addition of extra organic carbon which can be harmful is worth the risk for marginal gains on already low N and P levels.My system is a mixed reef with a relatively high number of well fed fish . With moderate carbon dosing I maintain PO4 at about .05ppm with nitrate in the range of 2ppm to 4ppm. Sps do very well at these levels without appreciable nuisance algae.For me carbon dosing is a means to maintain acceptably low levels of N and P. The least amount of organic carbon I can dose to do so the better in my opinion.

Ok that makes sense.

Do you really think I should stop all together now then or try AA? With half the dose of vodka I have been dosing?

tmz
12/02/2009, 01:02 AM
Personally, I'd stop but it's not my tank and I don't know it as well as you do. Some AAs shouldn't hurt either way.

bertoni
12/02/2009, 03:54 PM
You could try with a smaller dose than the original level, and give that some time. I worry a bit about losing corals, but it might work.

JustinReef
12/02/2009, 04:01 PM
Personally, I'd stop but it's not my tank and I don't know it as well as you do. Some AAs shouldn't hurt either way.

You could try with a smaller dose than the original level, and give that some time. I worry a bit about losing corals, but it might work.


Ok, thanks guys.

I really have no idea what to do so I guess I should stop.

Thanks again.

bertoni
12/02/2009, 04:22 PM
You're welcome! Good luck!

tmz
12/03/2009, 11:45 AM
You are welcome.