Test Kits where?

[llewoh05]

I want to know what test kits everyone is using and why? Are you sticking with 1 brand or mix n match them?

I am currently on an ELOS kick but i can't afford to buy.(got a good deal on a couple needed kits) The wife has me on a strict marine budget and I would like to see what others have opinions on before i make my plea to acquire a larger budget.

API kits are nice n cheap and local but i'm unsure of the reliability. Anyone know? Also thought about Hagen.

[Sloeber]

To be honest, I have never tested my current 3.5 year old reef with a test kit. I test for salinty during skimmer cleaning or WC's, and monitor temperature constantly. Other than that, I've never tested one thing.

I've never really understood the desire and facination to test water parameters. Find a method (KISS), stick with it, and let the levels balance out where they may. The time, energy, and money spent on monitoring parameters coupled with the same elements in adjusting levels which don't really need adjusting really takes the fun out of the hobby for me.

To often than not monitoring certain levels creates the desire to reach "optimum levels" and thus fiddling with the water most often by addition or subtraction of chemicals. The resulting spikes can often be more harmful than the less than ideal yet stable conditions achieved by not even worrying about it.

JMHO. YMMV. HTH.

[insane]

More expensive doesn't always mean better or easier. It doesn't hurt to jump around with tests kits. Grab them when they are on sale and once you have tried several different brands you can then choose the ones that you like even if you use multiple brands for different tests.

If you plan on growing stonies then you should know where your Ca, Mg and dKh are for optimal growth. Knowing your water parameters will also give you a heads up that you need to do a major water change or let you see that something is going wrong. The sooner you catch it the less money you lose in dead livestock. Many people can, after decades of successful reefing, do certain things without testing because they know their system well and know from experience how quickly trace elements get used, they know their loads and are not always adding some new fish. If I am going to spend $250.00 on a few new fish, I want to know they have the best chance not only to survive but to not have to struggle in the closed enviorment that I am putting them in. I know I wouldn't want to be sealed in a room that didn't have enough O2 or maybe had alot of CO2, not enough to kill me but just enough to give me brain damage. I consider both fish and corals as pets. A test kit is cheaper than most reef fish. I'd rather buy a fish or coral once than have to replace it every so often because my water is out of whack.

If you notice something doesn't look right or something isn't acting right you can use tests to try and pinpoint where the problem is so you can fix it before things start dying. Personally I like Red Sea multi tests and am trying out a Sailfert dKh test since my sister likes them and she doesn't like to test her water. She has probably killed between 5 and 10 thousand dollars worth of fish and corals over the past 10 years. I also have a few Seachem tests but don't really like them because they are a bit complicated. If you are comfortable in a lab then you would probably like Seachem tests. It really all depends on what level of testing you are comfortable with. Dip tests would be the least accurate but easiest to do. I used them as a noob for a short time but wouldn't use them now. It also helps to read the reviews people post online where kits are sold.

[syrinx]

I agree with henry- I don`t test anything but salinity. You will find most reefers as they mature in the hobby- do less and less testing. The tank will tell you more by looking at it. For the people i help that like to test I have them use the aquarium pharm (API) test kits. They are more than accurate enough for our non lab situation. Sailfert used to be the brand of choice- but that went out the window a couple years ago.

[Sloeber]

If you plan on growing stonies then you should know where your Ca, Mg and dKh are for optimal growth.

There is that word - optimal. Didn't take long for you to use it even after I used it in a negative context above. So tell me, if you Ca is at 450 and mine is 375, do you really think that matters? So your monti gets 1" of growth more than mine in a calendar year... who cares? Is 1" really worth all the time, money, and effort spent? (get your mind out of the gutters guys).

Knowing your water parameters will also give you a heads up that you need to do a major water change

Well, seeing as Inland Aquatics has a reef over 10 years old which has never had a WC performed on it and yet it flourishes I'd say your statement is nothing more than oft-repeated hearsay without much value. There are virtually zero absolutes in this hobby, and testing water to determine a WC is certainly not one of them.

Many people can, after decades of successful reefing, do certain things without testing because they know their system well and know from experience how quickly trace elements get used, they know their loads and are not always adding some new fish.

Trace elemnets? What are those? Just joking. If they aren't found in Kalkwasser or food, it doesn't get added to my reef. Well, minus my twice-yearly 75g WC that I do simply out of habit and not because I think it needs it.

If I am going to spend $250.00 on a few new fish, I want to know they have the best chance not only to survive but to not have to struggle in the closed enviorment that I am putting them in. I know I wouldn't want to be sealed in a room that didn't have enough O2 or maybe had alot of CO2, not enough to kill me but just enough to give me brain damage.

Perfect example of what I mentioned above. Say your CO2 is higher than you'd like, what are you going to do about it? Lower it by injecting ozone? So now you have more levels bouncing around, more equipment which can fail, and more parameters that need to be monitored. Me? I'll let my pH settle at a steady 8.0 and never budge versus you buying $1000 worth of ozone equipment to get your pH to 8.35 then watch it spike to 8.6 and drop to 7.9 with equipment margins of error. Which do you think is more stressful on your animals? Which do you think is easier to maintain long term? That is just one example. I can do it for any parameter you test... alk, iodine, etc.

I consider both fish and corals as pets. A test kit is cheaper than most reef fish. I'd rather buy a fish or coral once than have to replace it every so often because my water is out of whack.

Ever consider your water is out of whack because all the things you dose and test for? ;)

If you notice something doesn't look right or something isn't acting right you can use tests to try and pinpoint where the problem is so you can fix it before things start dying.

And what will you do about it then? A WC? Me too. But I don't need a test kit of any kind to tell me a WC helps me return to my base levels.

Personally I like Red Sea multi tests and am trying out a Sailfert dKh test since my sister likes them and she doesn't like to test her water. She has probably killed between 5 and 10 thousand dollars worth of fish and corals over the past 10 years.

I'd like you to consider encouraging your sister to leave the hobby. Some people just have too much money I guess. [/QUOTE]

[llewoh05]

i don't plan on being one of those guys that have to test and strive for perfect water. I just want to have a heads up if anything goes wrong or my levels get too far off.

I have yet to start dosing anything. I am have thought about doesing kalk, but do i need to have a rough idea of where to start. i have no idea how much to dose or what it will do to my system. I would like to be able to test the levels and see exactly how i am changing the system.

I kept a 10g packed with corals (mostly softy and lps) for several years with no dosing or WC. With this bigger tank i am having problems with low calcium and lower ph.

[insane]

Inland uses one special piece of equipment that makes what they do possible. The vast majority of reefers do not have one of them. Most haven't even seen one. I see one everytime I walk in my house. Do you?

We'll just leave it at that. :D

[llewoh05]

ok its early monday and im still hungover from this weekend.

wut?

[Sloeber]

Inland uses one special piece of equipment that makes what they do possible. The vast majority of reefers do not have one of them. Most haven't even seen one. I see one everytime I walk in my house. Do you?

We'll just leave it at that. :D

Wow, really insightful (not). I'd be impressed, too, if I didn't know better. But I do. So I gotta call you on it. Sorry.

llewoh05,

He is refering to an ATS aka algea turf scrubber.

However, if he knew what he was talking about, he would understand that it is 100% irrelavant for this conversation. It's no more useful in this conversation than saying, "I have a protein skimmer and see it everytime I walk in my house. Do you?"

It's an attempt at confusing people with as little informaton as possible rather than sharing knowledge and educating.

More later once my Xmas party hangover wears off. Just thought I'd clear that little tidbit up for you.

[insane]

Sloeber, I am not here to argue with you nor to withold information. I share what I know, learn, ideas that come to mind and things I can find for others with everyone in a good many of the forums on here. My Inland ATS250 is detailed in descriptions, photos and videos in my posts here on RC. I share this with others that are thinking about building an ATS, use them or that just want to learn more about them. The history of what happened at Inland with these units is something I just fully learned about in a 2001 thread on RC that was posted to as the problems unfolded with the production of these, the trademarking of the words fuge and refugium and the lawsuit over the patent rights. These units in their larger forms are one of the reasons why Inland Aquatics don't do water changes.

I watch this forum because this is the reef club for the people in my area. If I can help other Central Illinoians or do trades, buy, or sell with them, that is a good thing.

I am a noob compared to many others but I try to keep an open mind about all of the things I learn on RC. I make mistakes same as others do, I try new things that I learn on here and I try to learn from them. I also try to help when I think I can. I worded my previous responses in the wrong way which is what offended you. It took me a minute to realize and accept the fact that I instigated this. I am not exactly a people person so things can come out wrong at times. For that I apologize to you, the OP and the members of CIMA.

[syrinx]

In the years that inland and my shop were both in operation- I had lower nitrates using rock and skimming- and less yellow water. Whatever works for you works- but there is no perfect system in a world of variables.

[Sloeber]

Sloeber, I am not here to argue with you nor to withold information.

I prefer to not use the word "argue" because I'm not here for that either. I am here for educational discussions, however, and much like necessity is the mother of invention, disagreement is the mother of education. If everyone sat around and agreed with each other nothing new would ever be learned. Therefore when I disagree with someone I'm not hesitant to say so. Likewise, when I'm wrong in a couple years I hope someone points that out as well (I kid, I kid :) ). Seriously, though, I'm hopeful people question my stance because it causes me to defend my views moreso, and I either learn more about the topic myself, or perhaps learn I was even wrong.

So again, don't consider it an arguement, look at it as a disagreement which not only you and I, but also our readers can all benefit from.

These units in their larger forms are one of the reasons why Inland Aquatics don't do water changes.

This statement is perhaps a little broad, no? First off, IA doesn't do WC's for a couple reasons. 1) simply speaking, they don't want to 2) doing a WC on a system measuring 30,000 gallons is rather daunting and let's face it, cost prohibitive and 3) they essentially do minor WCs all day every day. With every livestock sale they siphon water out of their system which must be replaced at some point - a WC. So saying IA doesn't do a WC isn't entirely correct.

But to get to the point you were trying to make (I think) is that the removal of organics by the turf algae makes it possible for the aquarium to be run without WCs. Again, a rather broad statement. It's not any different than someone claiming the use of their protein skimmer is the reason they don't a WC. Both the ATS and the PS, although they accomplish it by different means, essentially have the same function.

Personally speaking, I've often considered a PS a luxury, but that's probably only because I have been keeping reefs since before the widespread use of a PS. I've kept successful reefs without them, and could today. What the PS has allowed me, however, is to be a lazy reefer. WCs can wait, and wait, and wait when my PS is running efficiently. Without it, I'd be on a much more controlled WC schedule. This shouldn't be any different than someone running an ATS.

I worded my previous responses in the wrong way which is what offended you. It took me a minute to realize and accept the fact that I instigated this. I am not exactly a people person so things can come out wrong at times. For that I apologize to you, the OP and the members of CIMA.

All good my friend. I don't feel the need for an apology, but just the same I appreciate it and offer one in return if you were offended at any point. We are all here for the same reasons, but we take different pathes along the way. Because of this, disagreement is going to happen, and when it does, it should be discussed in depth for the benefit of the entire community.

I look forward to future discussions with you.

[Sloeber]

In the years that inland and my shop were both in operation- I had lower nitrates using rock and skimming- and less yellow water. Whatever works for you works- but there is no perfect system in a world of variables.

I'll give ya the yellow water. ATS are known for having urine colored water. I've never personally ran an ATS but I wonder if that could be cleared up with a schedule of carbon for a few days once a month? I have a carbon filter plumbed in-line with my return with the anticipation of running it 48 hours once a month, but in the 3 years its been up and running I've run it twice - right at the beginning when the diatoms and cyno were going through their cycles. I've considered doing the token carbon cycle here and there, but figure, ehhh, why bother, ya know? LOL

But you have me on the nitrates being different. Are ATS known to run at a higher nitrate? I would figure the ATS as well as a PS wouldn't contribute much to the nitrate factor (shows how much I understand about chemistry in our reefs).