acans dieing

[bhelne01]

i have lost 4 acan frags . they are disoving away what could be causing this
amm0
nit0
sg025
cal470
alk10
phos0

[PCfishman]

If they are leaving behind a pink skeleton, then it could be a bacterial infection... If so, dip in TMPCC = Tropic Marin Pro Coral Cure and then a dip in ReVive... Treat the tank with Vit C...

Could also be fish irritating the coral...

[iamwrasseman]

i 2nd that opinion

[amore169]

What's ur Mg?

[bhelne01]

I dont know my mag i will check that tomorrow.
what does the vitamin c do

would not dipping it in lugol's solution do the same thing as dip in TMPCC = Tropic Marin Pro Coral Cure and then a dip in ReVive...

[iamwrasseman]

acans that are dieng usually are infested with bugs or bacteria and you need to dip them in order to stop the spread of it . i have personally found that interceptor and iodine dips seperatly need to be done in order to stop the progression of tissue die off .mag deficiencies will not creat die off rather the infestation of either of the above always results in what you are experiencing . excessive light or inproper light acclimation also can do the same . if you have a deficiency usually it will result in the recess of tissue but way before the tissue dies .also you very well may have something nipping at the coral that may be bothering them and you can closly observe the tank to see if that is happening .most new "cool colored" lords are coming from australia and they are riddled with hitchikers that are not good for them ,thats what the interceptor if used for in most cases

[bhelne01]

thanks for the words of wisdom

[iamwrasseman]

:idea:i hope you get it under controll ,i had thousands of dollars worth that got killed by an infestation and got it under controll only to lose them by a reoccurance of the same thing . interceptor kicked its butt ,only thing i missed were the eggs . you need to treat at least three times a week apart IMO . they all need to be killed so you have to give some time to hatch so they can then be killed .i lost over 75 large colonies that i was fragging to the unidentified "bugs" from australia so beware and stay on top of it . i can guarentee its not nutrition but a fish could be nipping at it so like i stated before take a look and be very observent.
best wishes Dave

[crsaz]

what did the bugs look like? never heard of acan eating bugs, one more thing for me to be paranoid about now:eek1:

[iamwrasseman]

they are microscopic ,they are a type of anthropod is what i have been told and the interceptor will kill them with the correct dosage .i lost a ton of acans ans lobos the first time and then lost 20 or 25 colonies the second time sp i just quit with the aussie stuff .i had dipped the newbies but it supposidly didnt kill the eggs and then they grew and killed infesred them the second time . for that reason i have stopped any aussie acans from entering my tanks .i am now left with two frags out of hundreds that i once had .i do know people that have had the same thing happen and also a few that never have had an issue with them so its just something to watch out for .all of this has been diagnosed from a doctor that is into thease corals and has had the same trouble . they are only visable through a very strong micoscope not your ordinary unit . i have dosed with interceptor five times now and my tanks have a clean bill oh health but i really would have to go through a long drawn out QT process to possiably insure that it doesnt happen again . my tail is between my leggs and i dont know if i will ever start collecting them again ,time will tell . :sad2:

[bhelne01]

how do you dose with interceptor

[iamwrasseman]

the interceptor is a prescription by your vet and it is for dogs . the pills for a 50lb dog and higher are used at 1 pill for 280 gallons . how big is your tank ? 1/2 pill for 140 gal 1/4 for 70 and so on . they are a bit tough to dissolve and i use rubbing alcohol to do it . you can double dose the number without any problems but you dont need to . remove carbon and turn off skimmer for 24 hrs after dosing . my doctor friend suggests three treatments for complete erradication of the "buggs" .
there are a few treads on rc and also alot of info online on this subject . i would suggest that you get a copy of the info and bring it to your vet and he should sell them for this purpose . mine has many times and i know that it is done widespread for aquarium use but they are for dogs so you have to show what your doing with them so they will sell them to you . hope i helped and please do ask as many questions as you need to make you comfortable with this procedure.
good luck Dave

[SaltHammerX]

good luck!

[bhelne01]

i have the interceptor but i read that it will kill my inverts

[dan223]

i have the interceptor but i read that it will kill my inverts

usually, isolate them in another tank if you want to save them. snails and clams are fine but it will usually wipe out crabs, shrimp and some pods.

[iamwrasseman]

dan223 is correct but i havent lost any snails or crabs or even my delicate shrimps . i have heard that they can be harmed but i do know of at least 9 different people who have used interceptor and not lost anything . its a chance that you are best taking because you cant get all the "bugs"unless you nuke the display tank . the displat tank is full of them and you may kill them in a qt but when they return to the display tank it will be waiting . its easier to remove most of them and keep in a QT for a month while you nuke the display tank and then return them . i have not lost any personally and i have double to triple dosed my tanks reciently . it is possiable that your inverts can be killed but usually they are easily replaced and your tank will be clean then . i hate advising anyone in this touchy subject but we need to take chances sometimes and that is what i suggest for you to do . do you have alot invested in inverts ?thats the important question . best wishes
Dave

[bhelne01]

i had to nuke the tank about 3 months ago (red bugs) and i lost a lot of inverts. i have just invested in restocking my tank and now i have this infection. ( i think this is a conspiracy act by LFS and supplier to ensure continuing sells of inverts and coral. jk) i go from having a problem with my SPS to having a problem with my LPS. what are the chances of that happening so it going to be another month till i get this under control. i just hope that i kill them all this time .:fun2:

what do you think about added a UV sterilizer to the tank?:worried2:

[Holyreefer]

i also have some acans that aren't opening up all the way. Out of the 5 that i have only 1seems to be doing really well and open all the way. Should i try moving them up closer to the light? The corals are showing they just arent all the way open like the main one is

[iamwrasseman]

acans dont require alot of light , what type of lights do you have and what size is your tank ?
the uv streilizer wont kill large bugs like that but you have to first understand that its only partially the LFS fault . they really should be dipping them before they are sold but that does not stop the eggs from hatching and then growing into adults thus infesting your corals . there are many bugs and bacterias ,viruses etc on theas wild corals and the aussie ones are the worst IMO . after you purchase a coral its your duty to rid them of all critters and they are infested more times than not .i dont like QT for my fish but i think its a must for corals for this reason . its almost impossiable for you to determine the type of infestation or how to erradicate it so you have to treat for many types IMO .

[bhelne01]

I have a 40 watt that i was going to put on the tank

[JohnnyBassMan]

Do you have any peppermint shrimp? They will eat them.

[DThompson]

acans dont require alot of light , what type of lights do you have and what size is your tank ?
the uv streilizer wont kill large bugs like that but you have to first understand that its only partially the LFS fault . they really should be dipping them before they are sold but that does not stop the eggs from hatching and then growing into adults thus infesting your corals . there are many bugs and bacterias ,viruses etc on theas wild corals and the aussie ones are the worst IMO . after you purchase a coral its your duty to rid them of all critters and they are infested more times than not .i dont like QT for my fish but i think its a must for corals for this reason . its almost impossiable for you to determine the type of infestation or how to erradicate it so you have to treat for many types IMO .

+1. Great info.

Acans come from very murky water. A lot of light is something they don't need.

[emilio c]

A BIG thanks for the info the samething was going on with mine. After reading this and doing as suggested BOOM all is well! THANKS AGAIN!

[bhelne01]

im going to BOMB my tank tomorrow

[whowadat]

Well I wouldn't be so quick to just start treating with interceptor and expecting your Acans to come back to life. There's a whole bunch of confusion about LPS "RTN" with lots of differing opinions and points of view.

I had about 8 Acan colonies for about 6 months, a couple were purchased at an internet site while the others were purchased from a fellow reefer who had had them for quite some time. They were altogether for about 4 months when I started to have problems with just one of them having its polyps starting to shrink up, start to look like a hot air ballon, and then just float away or dissolve outright. The ones next to it were fine but I moved two of them to a QT tank and treated with Interceptor, two others went into another tank without treatment, and the other three stayed where they were.

The two treated with INT died off within a few weeks, one of the others moved to another tank eventually melted away, two others lost a few polyps but are still alive and seem to be fine, while the other two never were affected. During this time I also lost my prized Goniastrea that I had for about 4 months prior to it starting in with RTN in the same tank that the Acans were in, here's a pic.....<p><center>

<a href="http://s602.photobucket.com/albums/tt109/whowadat/?action=view&current=goniastrea3.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt109/whowadat/goniastrea3.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a><p>

I did INT, dips and doos, cut away the necro, raised them up off the sand bed, increased flow, decreased flow, brighter light, no light, feed 'em like crazy, check for elect leaking, you name it and I probably did it. I worked daily at keeping this particular gonia alive but it just melted away over the course of two weeks. Water changes didn't help, parameters were all in normal ranges with no crazy swings.

Having heard about this "bug" issue I contacted two of the largest Acan sellers I know of who didn't give the notion much credibility. Nobody has ever gotten a decent picture that I am aware of, and if this was a herd of bugs why did they leave some 'cans alone while munching on others ?? How did they wind up in some tanks but not others ?? How do you know there's eggs if you can't even see the bugs ?? Are the eggs bigger than the bugs ??

Some folks have had success keeping the "RTN" on LPS in check with Interceptor while others haven't. Myself, I'm thinking its chemical warfare of sorts between corals that usually aren't so close to each other in nature, water temp swings as a result of too much light on the tank itself, (doesn't matter where the coral is placed) poor water quality that can't be rectified in a couple of WC before the Acan actually dies completely, and maybe undissolved grains of whatever irritating the soft tissue of an LPS. This could come from Kalk drips, two parts, God knows what else.....JMHO

I'm gonna try and keep my Acans in a separate tank all by themselves and see how that works out, these large Acan sellers don't have anything else in their tanks and don't seem to be having any serious problems. Of course if they did and told the general public about it, they wouldn't be big sellers no more I suppose.....

[sportzfish]

Do you have any peppermint shrimp? They will eat them.

Peppermint shrimp eat these bugs? Or do you mean camel shrimp which are more native to australia?

[iamwrasseman]

as you can see i usually "bugs" because i dont know exactly what they are .its like calling something a critter . i did not say it was a cure all in any way i was just trying to help . of corse the sellers dont know what they are they never see the corals for more than a week probably .i also explained that it could be a virus ,bacteria etc so im not personally directing them in any direction just trying to help with treating for anything that possiably may be hurting them . as you said every one is different and some people never get them . everyone doesnt win the lottery either .

my 2 pennies Dave

[bhelne01]

I guess this is just part of the hobby
I did the bomb and im using
brightwell restor
coralamino
vit C
idodide
added a carbon reactor
did about a 1/3 WC
and increased my water flow

they look better just keep your finger crossed for me

[impur]

I have about 15 acan colonies along with about 7 micro colonies and usually at least one of them is showing signs of RTN at all times. I always have at least 1 colony going thru this. Usually i just watch it and see how far it goes, on average it'll consume 2-3 polyps then stop. But if it goes beyond that, or begins to happen to one of my more favorite colonies, i remove it and dip in Furan2 for about an hour. I do this 2-3 days in a row. After the dips the colonies is good to go for another 6-8m until it begins to go thru it again. Some of my colonies never go thru this, but some have it happen regularly.

Just my experience.

Good luck.

[Takara]

Where did you purchase them? you win some you loose some in this hobby

[impur]

All over. Online sites, local trades, buying off boards.

[milkman55]

The acans I have lost have all been due to too much light. Once I started putting them all on the sand bed, they have all been doing great and growing.

[iamwrasseman]

yes i have also found that they really dont like intense light at all and it can kill them in time . they do great under less light with very little to light water movement .

[ros_sco]

I was watching recession in acans, chalices, and even a favia in the same manner. My mag was around 1210 so I bumped it up while my favorite acan was receding and there was no changes. This acan had grown from 2 polyps to 8 polyps in the same spot and had encrusted new polyps onto the rockwork. All the while it receded, the remaining polyps would extend and feed, even the half polyps at the edge of the recession. I noticed ampipods congregating on the margins at night so I bought a sixline wrasse to thin them out. Thinned them out, no changes on the recession. Finally pried it off the rockwork and dipped in a Lugols dip followed by a Revive dip. When it had receded to where there was one good polyp left, I fragged that off ahead of the recession. After the acan had died , I figured it was another one of those mysterious coral deaths that just happen. A couple months later, I noticed 4 more acan colonies that I had grown from one to five polyp frags into nice mini colonies over a year started receding in the same manner. These colonies showed no issues when the mag was a bit low, and were perfect when the mag was raised. Then a chalice that had been bullet proof along with several newer ones started receding, and then the favia. My parameters were still perfect - Mag at 1400, Alk at 10, CA at 450. I checked for stray voltage and had absolutely none. I had read earlier that interceptor was successful in some cases and since I had some from treating red bugs a couple years ago I gave it a shot. I had just dosed a week before this thread started, but didn't want to jump to conclusions about my results until I was sure. Immediately after dosing, the recession stopped. This was recession that the changes could be seen daily. All corals affected have now recovered and are re-growing over the receded skeleton. I used a bit stiffer dose than normal, a whole large tablet for my 75 gallon with 25 gallon frag tank/sump. I took my hermits out, put them back after 4 days and still lost over half of them. Should have waited 10 days or so like I did when I treated red bugs.
So, bottom line, interceptor worked for me. As stated above, there are many potential causes to recession, I was fortunate to nail the cause of mine.

[iamwrasseman]

that's awesome that you figured it out ! five years ago that happened to me and took out $7000.00 to $8000.00 worth of acan colonies and frags . the interceptor worked for me then and i was able to save approx frags . then i started purchasing colonies and dipping them in interceptor and all was fine until it hit me again and wiped out most of the rest .at that time i would imagine it was around $1500.00 worth so i gave up . evidently the interceptor does not kill all ,weather it eggs or larval stages that go unharmed and my acans were again infested and killed .so please beware and be carefulwhen messing with the aussie stuff . i now don't wonder why the great barrier reef is dying in places ,they have no interceptor in mass quantities lol .

[bhelne01]

I did the interceptor treatment and it worked

thanks

[iamwrasseman]

okay but don't get complacent because of one treatment . i am trying to help here and you should treat three times about ten days apart to further ensure that all the organisms are killed off .the single treatment is what hurt me and i thought it was totally gone but it returned to whipe out almost everything .

[kc350twin]

Man, I started a thread about this before researching. I am going to hit the Vet's tomorrow with this printed out and try and get them to sell me interceptor.

I was going to use a separate tank to dip my acans in or should I treat the whole tank? All of my Aussies are on one rock and it is removable. Can I just leave that rock in my separate tank and keep treating that tank? If that makes sense.


Kc3

How long do I dip them for?

[iamwrasseman]

okay here's the kicker ,the interceptor can kill inverts but usually does not .if you have lot of inverts i would do it in a QT but if you don't i would do the whole tank . i have nuked mine several times and never lost a thing but i have heard some have lost some or all of their inverts . i have peppermints ,cleaners ,hermit crabs ,nassarius snails ,and a few urchins and never have i lost them due to the interceptor .i have even used three times the dose recommended will no ill effects .

[kc350twin]

Thanks. I am going to try and do it in the next day or two. Will update soon

[iamwrasseman]

most vets are sympathetic to our situation and will sell you the interceptor ,just have a bit or documentation with you when you go.

[kc350twin]

Okay I got the interceptor. It's for 51-100 lbs dog. If I am doing it in a separate tank should I leave the acans in there or use it as a dip?
Next question.
You stated three applications. If I have a separate tank with the interceptor in it does it lose it's potentcy over the days I am dipping?

[iamwrasseman]

again i must stress the every situation is different.however i would always nuke the display tank as what you are trying to kill can be other places other than the acans .it took out other lps corals in my tank so we know it lives on them also . its very hard to suggest except my personal experience is to go with the display tank .#1 i had it and it wiped out 75% of everything .#2 if you just dip the new corals you may not get all in doing so .#3we really don't know the "thing" that you are trying to kill very well and don't completely understand its ~egg to larvel to adult stages or rates as far as time in concerned so i like to be sure and again nuke the display tank .it is the more sure way to kill it off .then you have the ever difficult question of what to do with new corals . i was "dipping" them as follows .i would set a tupperware container in my sump and treat in it to keep temp stable ,air stone in the container also and i was doing this for 24hrs or more .in the end i got hit again so i don't think that 24 hrs was long enough so that's why 3 treatments over three weeks seems much more ideal .it is so difficult because we don't know for sure if that is long enough or if they can hitch hike longer .i do believe that the 3 and 3 will kill 100% and i haven't gotten any other outbreaks in doing this but i also have really cut back in purchasing them because i have lost close to $10,000.00 worth in the past three years so i really am gun shy at this point .its funny because i really think i have the solution but just don't trust the unknown ,i however am smart enough to realize this and am taking baby steps in the collection of australian acans for this reason .i also am very sorry for possibly deterring you but i wish you the best and good luck.

[kc350twin]

Totally understand. I really feel like I am rushing a bit so I am going to back off. I am going to try a couple of things since I have a few frags receding. I'm also going to re-read the threads I know about and re-group. I have to try something I won't go down with out a fight.

Thanks for all your help.
Kc3

[iamwrasseman]

please do re read some of the treads and get up to speed on them . they are very easy corals for the most part but since the aussie invasion there are certain hitchhikers that have been decimating tanks and the control of that is what i am trying to help you with .dont get afraid but do get educated on them and i wish you the best with them .
Dave