In Taiwan, reef tank for school, water question

[Sparkpaul]

Hi guys,

My name is Paul and I am originally from Southern California. Now I live in Taiwan (island in the pacific, off the coast of china) and I am the principal of my school. I want to add a reef tank in our school so kids can learn about ecosystem and learn about the ocean. I recently ordered a reef tank, including all the corals, fish, other living things, and equipment from a local store in Taipei. The store owner has been an enthusiast and own the store for more than twenty years. He is very honest, sincere, and experienced however, but he told me doesn't have the cutting edge of knowledge compare to the people on Reef Central.

In Taiwan, scientific knowledge of reef tank is not popular because there are no community to support and help each other out. Store owners are competitive so they dont share knowledge and there is not research/data like states, canada, or uk. So it is important for me to find professionals with most experience to help me with my set up.

I have read the newbie guide on water and it is standard to use RO water with salt, however, the store owner says he has been doing this setup with natural ocean water for 20 years. They will deliver the water to me every 10 days to do a 25 gallon water change. He says RO with salt is good but all of his customers that he maintains for, uses water that comes directly from the ocean.

He says I can start with natural ocean water and weekly/10 day basis, use coral life reef salt to mix with RO water. However, he still recommends ocean water. He is very confident with his setup and it's not too complicated. All the advice he gave me were very similar to the things I have read on this site except water and yet, water is the most critical element of the whole setup.

I know the right way is to use RO water with salt but I am stuck between a rock and a hard place because I am buying everything (all the equipment plus organisms) from him and he can guarantee the stability of my tank.

Second question, is Nature's Ocean Black Sand stable?

Thanks guys
Paul

[Sisterlimonpot]

Can't answer the sand question but to answer the water question: due to companies dumping waste into the ocean, here in the states the water off the coast is very polluted, that's why it's suggested to mix your own. The benefits outweigh the alternative which would be to go miles off the coast to get quality salt water. however if your local reefers are using NSW (natural salt water) than I don't see a problem. If your going to have a reef tank your going to want to replenish calcium, alkalinity and Magnesium by dosing a 2 part or using kalk. Adding trace elements to the tank won't hurt either. There are some here on RC that swear by NSW.

HTH

[mak3mydae]

I would still get an RO/DI system for your school since your still going to need water to "top off" with. I'm pretty sure that sand is stable and has buffering capacities for saltwater. If he can guarantee stability in your tank, then it should be fine. If not, then take it up with him :D What kind of lights and equipment does this set up come with?

[Psionicdragon]

They have RODI water or should have it in the school. Most facilities in Taiwan have their water fountains equipped with RODI.

[Sisterlimonpot]

Great point. Top-off is going to be a concern. Distilled water is your only other alternative to RODI. but that gets expensive quickly.

[mak3mydae]

They have RODI water or should have it in the school. Most facilities in Taiwan have their water fountains equipped with RODI.

That's super fancy... Darn America

[terri_ann]

Paul,
What a great Principal you are! I'm sure the students will learn from it.

There is a man, Paul B., that uses critters, bacteria, etc. from the ocean. He is in Long Island and has had his 100g tank since 1972. He would be an excellent person for information.

The man you got the tank from has years of experience so I wouldn't be "too" concerned but there are risks (and benefits.) If the schools' water is RO/DI it might be okay for the topoff but I would suggest testing it for TDS. Your supplier should be able to help you with that as I'm sure you are not his first needing topoff water and TDS checking.

Keep us posted! And, Happy Reefing!!

[Sparkpaul]

Thanks guys, your support is very much appreciated.

The lighting we are using is 2 MH HQI with T8's

The dimension for the tank is 50" x 21.6" (depth) x 26.7" (height) = 100 gallons
Sump is about 30 gallons
1/3 HP cooler

Some fish, small, not too big
soft corals with live rock
some snails, shrimp, sea star, clam
I am still trying to read up on the living organisms.

I would like to know what testing equipment I would need so I can let kids try it themselves such as hydrometer, pH, nitrate and nitrite?

What additives do I need and why do I need them.
They have all the books in chinese but I need english books about fish.

I will keep on reading the site, it seems like there is a never ending stuff to read just on lighting or water itself.

Let me know if there is any critical things or basic things I should know such as frequency of water change... or how to minimize water change, is 25 gallon per 10 days too short or too long?

Thanks again guys,
Paul

[TP123]

The 25 gal per 10 days will probably be fine. What is required will vary between systems/aquariums (many people seem to suggest about ~10% a week as a starting point for the largish systems, which is close to what you're doing). Just try to keep stocking relatively light. Higher stocking generally will mean more water changes.

You'll also want a calcium and Mg test kit. Personally, I never found nitrite kits all that useful except when first setting up the tank. Refractometers are generally advised over hyrdometers as they're more accurate, but also more expensive.

[Sisterlimonpot]

refractometers are pretty much the way to go. Like suggested earlier (depending on what type of corals your going to keep) dosing 2 part (cal and alk) will keep your mag, calc and alk up. But if your your not going to keep any stony corals it's not too necessary. There are some great articles here about reef chemistry that explains all that. If you haven't already read through all this (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031074)stuff it explains everything.

Paul B. wrote an article a few months back in Reef Keeping about his aquarium and the unique ways he keeps it running. It's worth a read as well.
HTH

[phil519]

Thanks guys, your support is very much appreciated.

The lighting we are using is 2 MH HQI with T8's

The dimension for the tank is 50" x 21.6" (depth) x 26.7" (height) = 100 gallons
Sump is about 30 gallons
1/3 HP cooler

Some fish, small, not too big
soft corals with live rock
some snails, shrimp, sea star, clam
I am still trying to read up on the living organisms.

I would like to know what testing equipment I would need so I can let kids try it themselves such as hydrometer, pH, nitrate and nitrite?

What additives do I need and why do I need them.
They have all the books in chinese but I need english books about fish.

I will keep on reading the site, it seems like there is a never ending stuff to read just on lighting or water itself.

Let me know if there is any critical things or basic things I should know such as frequency of water change... or how to minimize water change, is 25 gallon per 10 days too short or too long?

Thanks again guys,
Paul

Paul -

Equipment I would consider:
Backup power. Taiwan is subject to various "typhoons" that coudl potentially knock out power. Given the sub-tropical area of the country - (even if you are in the northernmost part of that country) you'd be best served with some kind of backup power. The chiller will eat that power up rapidly so keep that in mind. Given the hot temps already - I don't know if using MH is such a wise idea.

Second thing - will the school be used 365 days a year? I ask because if the schools are out during the summer (which is what I think happens) then you will need to find a someone to maintain the tank or take the tank home.

If you could start from scratch - i would go very very low tech. That is, just have a few inverts and non-photosynthetic corals. Then you could do-away with the lights and maintenance of the lights and the issue with additives. Kids could focus on measuring salinity/specific gravity, ph, temp, nitrates, etc.

Also a sea star will likely evicerate any clams you put in there so skip them or skip the clam.

I am surprised there is any info on reef fish in taiwan at all given the complete dedication to all things koi, blood parrot, arowana or discus. :rolleyes: