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forrealb50
12/11/2009, 08:16 PM
Only have two fish in the tank. They have been in there for about 4-5 weeks. I have never seen any spots, rubbing, or other signs of ich. Could the fish still have ich and it's just suppressed?

I'm going to QT the next fish and then add it to the tank. I don't want to go through with the QT and then have the new fish pick up ich that I didn't see from the other two fish. Is that possible?

krowleey
12/11/2009, 11:52 PM
Only have two fish in the tank. They have been in there for about 4-5 weeks. I have never seen any spots, rubbing, or other signs of ich. Could the fish still have ich and it's just suppressed?

I'm going to QT the next fish and then add it to the tank. I don't want to go through with the QT and then have the new fish pick up ich that I didn't see from the other two fish. Is that possible?

it's possible. thats why you should always QT seperate from the DT.

forrealb50
12/12/2009, 06:39 AM
it's possible. thats why you should always QT seperate from the DT.

The two fish were in a QT for 4 weeks before adding to the DT. I did a QT process with out any meds. The research I did with those fish said you QT fish with 4 weeks without meds and anything bad would show itself due to the added stress of being moved around and a smaller environment. In that QT process there were also no signs of Ich.

After more research I found I should have used copper or hypo for the 4 weeks just to be sure anything bad would be killed off.

So, should I put the two fish back in the QT and treat them with copper just to be sure? Or, leave them in the DT and the next fish treat with copper in the QT and just move forward?

Thanks!

blacktop pete
12/12/2009, 06:41 AM
Yes it is possible. You can remove your fish from your dt and qt as well with the new fish. Leave your dt empty for 6 to 8 weeks. during this period you may want to treat with hyposalinity or cupramine. Its very stressful on the fish, but should give you a piece of mind that your dt is ich free for now.

blacktop pete
12/12/2009, 06:43 AM
Treat them i would rather be safe then sorry later.

Patrick12
12/12/2009, 07:17 AM
If you gave them 4 weeks and they showed no signs, then you should be fine. The answer to your original question is not a resounding yes....it is more of a maybe. I QT fish that are delicate without any medications as well for a month...minimum and only treat as necessary. There are different schools of thought on the matter as you are seeing, but you do not have to empirically treat with copper or hypo to be safe and properly QT fish. You just need to make sure that you allowed enough time for the parasites to complete their lifecycle and show evidence of their existence. If the fish you have already QT'd showed no evidence of disease or parasites after a full month....hopefully at 80F or higher......then they are likely clean. Ultimately, it is your decision whether to treat every fish....regardless of signs. I just caution you when you get to delicate species that you can kill....even without overdosing.....but maybe did not need to treat. I like the Diver's Den for that reason.....they have already done the wet work for you. Best of luck whatever you decide.

forrealb50
12/12/2009, 07:58 AM
If you gave them 4 weeks and they showed no signs, then you should be fine. The answer to your original question is not a resounding yes....it is more of a maybe. I QT fish that are delicate without any medications as well for a month...minimum and only treat as necessary. There are different schools of thought on the matter as you are seeing, but you do not have to empirically treat with copper or hypo to be safe and properly QT fish. You just need to make sure that you allowed enough time for the parasites to complete their lifecycle and show evidence of their existence. If the fish you have already QT'd showed no evidence of disease or parasites after a full month....hopefully at 80F or higher......then they are likely clean. Ultimately, it is your decision whether to treat every fish....regardless of signs. I just caution you when you get to delicate species that you can kill....even without overdosing.....but maybe did not need to treat. I like the Diver's Den for that reason.....they have already done the wet work for you. Best of luck whatever you decide.

What is Diver's Den?

krowleey
12/12/2009, 09:24 AM
What is Diver's Den?

its an online vendor, but i still would not trust that. and it's not just a maybe it's possible, it is or it isn't, and it is possible for some fish to harbor ich due to a temporary immunity, and you would never see it. it is in the fishes gills. I would QT and hypo everything before adding to the DT.

Mentat
12/12/2009, 10:13 AM
Only have two fish in the tank. They have been in there for about 4-5 weeks. I have never seen any spots, rubbing, or other signs of ich. Could the fish still have ich and it's just suppressed?...
Yes.
...I'm going to QT the next fish and then add it to the tank. I don't want to go through with the QT and then have the new fish pick up ich that I didn't see from the other two fish. Is that possible?
Yes, it's possible. Here is a good read before you decide what to do: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1752607.

forrealb50
12/12/2009, 12:40 PM
Yes.

Yes, it's possible. Here is a good read before you decide what to do: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1752607.

That's what I read after that made me think I should have used copper to make sure to kill any ich that could be on the fish.

I decided I'm going to purchase a new fish at the end of the year. That will mean the 2 fish I have now were in a QT for 4 weeks and the DT for 6-7 weeks. I would think if the fish had ich they would show signs of it in that time frame. The new fish will be put in the QT with a copper treatment regardless of it's showing sings of ich or not.

The only thing that stinks about using copper is I have to get another QT for all my inverts and corals I add to the DT. I was planning on having a running QT that everything would hang out in for 4 weeks before going in the DT. There goes that plan...

small alien
12/12/2009, 08:28 PM
.hopefully at 80F or higher..

I believe I recently read Bob Fenner say that only temps in the 90's will kill marine ich and those temps will also kill the fish. I could be wrong. I know that temps around 82 are helpful in eradicating freshwater ich.

wooden_reefer
12/15/2009, 07:11 PM
The research I did with those fish said you QT fish with 4 weeks without meds and anything bad would show itself due to the added stress of being moved around and a smaller environment. In that QT process there were also no signs of Ich.



I believe the isolate and observe concept causes a lot of problems.

I always treat new fish actively to eradicate ich for at least eight weeks in QT.

There is nothing to observe; assume that ich exists in all new fish from commercial sources.

small alien
12/16/2009, 09:19 AM
There is nothing to observe; assume that ich exists in all new fish from commercial sources.

That's an interesting perspective and it seems like a sensible one as well.

RBU1
12/16/2009, 08:32 PM
If you gave them 4 weeks and they showed no signs, then you should be fine. The answer to your original question is not a resounding yes....it is more of a maybe. I QT fish that are delicate without any medications as well for a month...minimum and only treat as necessary. There are different schools of thought on the matter as you are seeing, but you do not have to empirically treat with copper or hypo to be safe and properly QT fish. You just need to make sure that you allowed enough time for the parasites to complete their lifecycle and show evidence of their existence. If the fish you have already QT'd showed no evidence of disease or parasites after a full month....hopefully at 80F or higher......then they are likely clean. Ultimately, it is your decision whether to treat every fish....regardless of signs. I just caution you when you get to delicate species that you can kill....even without overdosing.....but maybe did not need to treat. I like the Diver's Den for that reason.....they have already done the wet work for you. Best of luck whatever you decide.

A couple comments...

1.) Temp has no impact on marine ich. Only real cold temps could cause it to go dorment longer.

2.) Even with sensitive species a copper such as cupramine can be used with no issues provided its added slow.

3.) Dont be tricked into thinking that because you bought a fish from anyone, no matter what their treatment might be, its disease free. Nothing better than doing your own QT you know whats going on.

My opinnion on the whole ich thing is to leave your main tank fallow for 12 weeks and treat all new fish in cupramine at .5 for 4 weeks.