It arrived!!!!!

[tgreene]

Yep, my new Halcyon Infinity BP/W just arrived a few minutes ago! :dance:

Sadly however, I had to put down and bury my cat today, so I'm not in any kind of mood to be excited or play with anything new. :sad1:

I did try it on and air it up, and know that it's gonna take a bit of tweaking to get her setup to fit just right. :wave: <-- fitment test!

I'll make a firm decision on the regs by Friday! :idea:

-Tim

[tgreene]

I woke up, made a pot of coffee, and immediately started fitting and adjusting the new rig... I "think" that I have it exactly how I want it and the way that SeaJay & Kym had me fitted with the rig in Georgia.

The first thing that I did was strip off the 2 side weight pockets since I I have the internal #6 channel weight... I can alway add them back in for salt water, or simply use an external weight belt which actually makes more sense to me since *most* of my diving will be freshwater.

Despite the numerous suggestions to stick with a minimalist rig, I am loving the shoulder and back pads!

-Tim

[SeaJayInSC]

Did EE send you any kind of fitment literature?

Here's a great resource in fitment: http://www.baue.org/faq/backplate_sizing_inline_images.php

I also found this, while searching... Interesting information: http://www.thinkingdiver.com/backplate-harness-wing-recreational-divers/

PM me if you have any questions. :)

[tgreene]

They did, and I spent most of the morning loosening this and tightening that. I did all of the fitting with the tank off, then put it on and it felt really good. Better in fact than the rig I was diving in Georgia... I don't know if it's because I have the shoulder pads, or because I wasn't strapped to a steel #100, or because it's mine, but it did just feel like it sat a little better. I do have the shoulder straps just a bit looser though, so that I can easily slip a finger under them. The rig I was diving in Georgia I had said all along that it seemed just a bit too tight and restrictive to me. I also know that once I have a wetsuit on it will be just a bit tighter than trying to fit it while wearing a t-shirt.

Anyways, thanks so much for letting me drive you nuts while I sorted through the myriad of gear choices available... It sucks too, because I was perfectly happy with what I had before, then you went and ruined me! ;)

-Tim

[SeaJayInSC]

Aw, I just upped the ante a little. :) When someone did that to me, I remember telling them that I felt like I had been racing go-karts for a while, and all of a sudden I was racing a Ferrari... It takes some getting used to, but in the long run it's a LOT better... Better than I had ever thought possible.

I'm not surprised that your new rig feels better than the one you were diving at the Aquarium... We were rushed to get you into that rig, and only did a few cursory adjustments to get things in the right range. Literally, on these rigs, 1/4" can be a huge difference, so having your own that you can adjust perfectly is the best option. And once you get the right fit, you won't want to dive anything else.

For what it's worth, once you find the right adjustments, replacing webbing is pretty easy, even though you'll have to readjust new webbing... You'll be so used to it that you'll know right off what needs to be adjusted.

Then, since you'll always have the same adjustments on your rig, you'll develop awesome "muscle memory" that will enable you to hit every D-ring in every case, regardless of whether or not you can see it.

...And the consistency of your rig will allow you to focus on many other amazing skills, making you a progressively better diver with every dive.

:)

[tgreene]

So it took it into my LDS this afternoon for a bit of "show-n-tell" and I got the really cold shoulder, along with a finger pointing to an I3 (elevator lever) followed by the statement that thoise will do everything mine will do, and for less..... I just nodded in agreement and made a quip along the lines of, "Sure, but you know how those Tech Nazis are; demanding that everyone and everything be the same!

I changed the subject as quickly as I could, then offered to pre-pay even more into my account, which T O T A L L Y changed the overall tone. Even though they have told me that they can't get Halcyon gear, I think they felt bad that they didn't get the sale, so at the risk of likely paying $50 more for the set of MiFlex hoses, I ordered them through the shop. Keep in mind that these are the guys that priorityovernighted a replacement light to me, and wouldn't accept a dime for the shipping or their trouble.

Also, I *may* be getting a drysuit sooner than later, so they'll get the opportunity to train and certify me as well as sell me yet another hose and then the underwear.

It really is a shame that they are so locked into AquaLung and the rules & regs that go along with it. :(

-Tim

[SeaJayInSC]

It really is a shame that they are so locked into AquaLung and the rules & regs that go along with it. :(

-Tim

Agreed. I can't for the life of me understand why they get so tunnel-visioned. It's like the distributors of the products (who are NOT the manufacturers, by the way) get this weird mind-control over them.

I can't tell you how many times I've said to an LDS... "I'm gonna get one of these... Probably in about two weeks. I know I can buy it for $100 online at Leisurepro (or any one of a dozen other places), but you're advertising it here for $250. Look, I would much rather buy from you and support my local dive shop, but I can't justify 2.5 times the price. Care to split the difference so I can buy from you?" (It IS, after all, worth more to me to be able to see and touch the item prior to purchase.)

To which they reply, "$100?! That's less than my wholesale price."

Look, a dealer is a dealer is a dealer... If *I* (the consumer) can get the item for LESS than what you (the retailer, presumably with a wholesale discount) can, then you need to find another supplier... Else I (the consumer) don't need you (the retailer)... That's all there is to it. I always look at them and smile and say, "No, you can buy at Leisurepro (or wherever) too... My bet is that they'd even sell to you at a discount..."

...Such is business. Paradigms shift. That's all there is to it. To be successful, a business not only needs to know how to ride the paradigms, but actually predict them or even create them.

Don't let your LDS look down their noses at you... The bottom line is that you are the consumer, and you control the market - that's all there is to it. If they're not listening to you, then they're headed in another direction other than the market. If they're not supplying your need, then they'll die - period. That's what they're there for - to satisfy their customers - and if they've got other ideas, then their business is already in deep trouble.

While you're diving, they're running their store - so don't let them tell you how to dive. They pretend they are, but they are not, the experts on diving. :)

Don't worry - you'll see a LOT of this kind of stuff as you visit more and more stores. The attitude you got today isn't branded, and it's not specific to your LDS. :)

Let them play with their elevator levers all day in the shop, telling people how great they are - while you dive and become an expert on diving for real. :)

[diver07]

What's an elevator lever? I mean, I know old time elevators were operated with a lever but somehow I don't think that's what you're talking about....

BTW, I swung into my LDS this afternnon to wish everyone Merry Christmas and I saw that DUI has a $ale going on right now.

Glad you like your new rig :bounce3:

[tgreene]

The "elevator lever" is just that; you push down to descend, and up to ascend... :D

Seriously, I'm not making this up!!!

[tgreene]

*IF* all goes well, I'll be diving my new rig in Florida in a week... I have a week to come up with $700 for the trip that includes Crystal River, Ginnie Springs, Blue Hole Grotto, Devils Hole, and a couple of other rivers & springs.

The trip is through our LDS and there are 17 people already going, including my favorite local dive partner.

-Tim

[SeaJayInSC]

Yep, there's two or three "levers" on the market...

http://www.aqualung.com/us/content/view/39/126/

Notice that there's no inflator hose on the BC. :) Instead, there's a lever on the lower left side of the BC. Flip it down, and the BC dumps (on the shoulder). Flip it up, and the BC inflates. Most everyone who puts it on thinks, "Wow - cool... No more buoyancy issues... Up = up and down = down. Simple." This has earned them the nickname "elevator lever."

The problem, of course, is that when you're at depth and ascending, you DEFLATE your BC. When you are sinking, you INFLATE your BC to remain neutral... Because the "bubble" in the bladder compresses and expands with depth. And the lever does not negate the fact that a diver breathes, which changes his buoyancy as well... So unless the diver is operating the lever with every breath, he's not going to be neutral until he learns how to control his buoyancy with his lungs - just like everyone else.

...But the real problem with these systems is that they're full of hidden hoses and o-rings and cables that operate the system. Every one of these is a failure point, and will, at some point, go out of adjustment, rust away, or leak... Behind a hidden panel... Which has never once been rinsed, since the diver didn't even know it existed.

The idea of these things is great - the practical application is not. Divers call this "surface logic" - it looks great in the store (or in the engineer's mind), but in the water it's a different story. :)

The weird thing is that the market didn't learn from the flopped Mares HUB of a few years ago, I suppose... http://www.divebooty.com/prodimages/lg/202.jpg Yes, look closely... That's "fully integrated" EVERYTHING. Even the regs are integrated into the BC. (shudder)

You know how it's difficult today to simply buy a printer? Instead, the market almost exclusively offers "all-in-ones," which is to say that they are printers, scanners, copiers, fax machines and everything else, all in one machine. They never seem to do any one thing very well, and of course, if one component breaks, suddenly nothing else works either. What's worse is that their drivers become HUGE and take up tremendous amounts of your computer's RAM, even when you're not actually using the machine. It's gotten pretty rediculous. Just getting one of these things to print something simple can be a real task - and a trick to accomplish correctly, if you can get it to work at all.

...Now imagine the same thought process, but with life support systems. :)

[diver07]

Very nice. I'm sure there will also be a very nice lawsuit too the first time one fails and someone dies because of this idiocy :(
3 REALLY BIG ISSUES: 1) disconnecting the hose if need be during runaway inflation looks more difficult that a standard inflator
2) Unlikely to be able to hear the air rush when inflating due to hose location - really a problem if inflation is unintended/runaway
3) Looks really easy to catch that lever on - frankly anything- leading to unintended inflation/deflation
I propose a new name: The Aqualung Death BC :idea:

[tgreene]

I've seen 2 of them locally where the levers and/or lever plate has broken, rendering the BC inoperable... Also, because it's clearly non-standard, how does a buddy know which way to hit the lever in an emergency, or what dou you do if the lever or plate breaks while on a dive and the BC dumps...???...???

There is a shoulder mounted oral inflator, but if the lever plate breaks then it can't hold air!

-Tim

[billsreef]

That lever thing looks scary. I'll stick to my old fashioned inflator valve that I can take apart and service in the field if need be. Simple is best.

Hey Tim, where are the pictures of the new stuff?

[tgreene]

Bill, the new regs will be here Tuesday and the MiFlex hoses were all ordered on Friday, so *hopefully* I'll have the ful rig together by Wednesday at the latest and I'll have pics then if so...

-However-

I can't post pics because I don't have the ability to do so. I was a paid member a few years ago, but cancelled it after someone in management read me the riot act in regards to publicly answering questions about a product that I developed (( Reef Relief AATOC -- Automated Aquatic Top Off Controller )) so I dropped it and lost that ability.

If you want to change that ability for me I'll post em, otherwise I can't. :(

-Tim

[SeaJayInSC]

Ah, jeez... Would you like some cheese with that whine? ;)

Just pokin' at ya, bud... What kind of friend would I be if I didn't take that opportunity? :)

For what it's worth, if you send me the photos, I'll put them up on my website's server and you can link to them from there. Of course, I don't for a minute think that this was really about photo space, of course... But don't say I didn't offer. :)


Simple is best.


I couldn't agree more, Bill. :)

Here's the funny thing about that lever system... All of them consider "up" to be toward the shoulder... And down to be toward the feet... Which is interesting, of course, because if the diver was in a correct prone position, "up" would be toward his back and "down" would be toward his belly. Additionally, when the lever is flipped "down," it activates a dump near the diver's shoulder - which means, in many ways, that the BCs with the lever on them very much encourage an "upright," vertical position in the water. In fact, the designers expect it, since the lever operates a dump on top of the shoulder, and not on the diver's back.

...Which is REALLY a bad thing. A vertical position has numerous disadvantages underwater, notwithstanding the diver's inability to slow a rapid ascent. The diver's simply not in a position to do anything but "Polaris missle" if the system decides to rapidly inflate.

Conversely, a diver with a horizontal attitude is in a position to slow both ascent and decent, resist any horizontal current, tend to an ailing buddy, donate or receive gas in an OOG situation, and of course, maintain good bouyancy. Simply put, these "lever" systems promote all kinds of nasty underwater issues, and discourage divers from learning proper diving techniques which will keep them alive.

...Which is how just ONE piece of gear can have a very dramatic effect on a diver's life. Even if a diver never actually has a life-threatening issue with this BC, it certainly would make diving "not so much fun" - which means that he loses interest in the sport (or hobby or lifestyle) very quickly.

Put into context, how many people have you known tell you, "Ah, you're a diver... So am I! I haven't dived in many years, though... Sorta lost interest..."

Could it be that the industry is cannibalizing itself? Could it be that the non-diving engineer of dive equipment is the REAL reason why the industry is falling apart?

To answer the question, all ya gotta do is visit DEMA. Do it a few years in a row and see how much turnover there is in the marketplace... So many fresh ideas, so much surface logic! :)

Add to that a very illegal (in the US) price fixing situation (in an industry too small for the FTC to care) and it's easy to see why so many dive shops are going out of business; and why so many people never get serious about diving.

...Which I suppose makes us very special people - an exclusive group! :)

[diver07]

Uhhhhh, just too drunk to post afteer getting home from the pub, I'll try tomorrow, at least we finally have a big freaking storm dropping a ton of snow on us....:bounce3:

[tgreene]

Ah, jeez... Would you like some cheese with that whine? ;)

Just pokin' at ya, bud... What kind of friend would I be if I didn't take that opportunity? :)

For what it's worth, if you send me the photos, I'll put them up on my website's server and you can link to them from there. Of course, I don't for a minute think that this was really about photo space, of course...
I have several gigs of available hosting space on my own servers, but thanks anyway. :)

But don't say I didn't offer. :)
Nope, it's about the inability to post pics here without being a PAID member, which I had been for quite some time until someone threw a fit about me responding to questions about my own products without being a paid advertiser (I was a paid member). The irony however is that I actually tried to become one, but nobody would ever respond to my inquiries at the time... I've long since sold that particular company, but am still in the reefkeeping business though, so there is a completely different set of rules here which apply to me and others in my position.

Sure I can post links, but Bill said to post PICS which I would love to be able to do. ;)

-Tim

[billsreef]

Tim,

I don't think there are any software restrictions on your account to prevent picture posting. Your not selling dive equipment, so no rules that would prevent you from posting those pictures either ;)

[tgreene]

Tim,

I don't think there are any software restrictions on your account to prevent picture posting. Your not selling dive equipment, so no rules that would prevent you from posting those pictures either ;)

TEST PIC

http://gallery.nea-reefkeeping.com/album/00000001/mini-DSC_8270.JPG

[tgreene]

By GOD it actually does work... I was told years ago that I was unable to post pics, so I never actually ever tried!!! :D

[billsreef]

at least we finally have a big freaking storm dropping a ton of snow on us....:bounce3:

I've got a 3' snow drift in front of my porch steps and about 2' covering the driveway. I'm not happy with this white stuff :(

[billsreef]

By GOD it actually does work... I was told years ago that I was unable to post pics, so I never actually ever tried!!! :D

It wasn't that you were unable to post pics, it was that you weren't allowed to post any pics that are business related or could be construed as pushing your business ;) Non business related pictures are kosher :)

Nice picture BTW.

[billsreef]

Ah, jeez... Would you like some cheese with that whine? ;)

I do have a nice piece of cheddar in the fridge, as well as a nice Merlot :D

...Which is REALLY a bad thing. A vertical position has numerous disadvantages underwater,

Come on now, would could be wrong with a vertical position. After all, how else are you going to walk on the reef :D

Could it be that the non-diving engineer of dive equipment is the REAL reason why the industry is falling apart?

Those engineers are certainly good at over thinking things. I always chuckle with folk playing with these fancy adjustments on their regulators, while I'm jumping in the water while they are still playing :D Got to love simplicity.

[tgreene]

Okay, so this is a business pic for SeaJay (pictured on far left in white shirt, white hat & jean shorts) so if I post a couple more pics of his business, can we finally get him banned once and for all..? :D

[billsreef]

can we finally get him banned once and for all..? :D

Hey, I'm bribe-able, booze and frags work :D

[SeaJayInSC]

I do have a nice piece of cheddar in the fridge, as well as a nice Merlot :D


Ha! You and I have a lot in common, Bill! :) My favorite is a Charleston, SC-based Cabernet called, "Barefoot," (very yummy and surprisingly inexpensive) and a cheese I just tried the other day called "Havarti." On a Ritz. :) I've got a 'fridge full of a variety of cheddars, too.


Come on now, would could be wrong with a vertical position. After all, how else are you going to walk on the reef :D


Bwaahahahahahaaa!!! :D


TEST PIC


Very cool photo, Tim! Yep, that's us at the top of the Beluga Whale tank, while we were working on it. As mentioned, I'm the guy with the ball cap on. My girl Kym (kymsflower here on RC) is in the red/black pullover, jeans and pink/yellow Crocs. Check out the dive rigs sitting there waiting - note Kym's with the pink webbing and pink hose protectors (THOSE aren't DIR, but she insists, just 'cause she's a rebel - doubt she would use them if they weren't pink). :) Tim's red Aqualung Slingshot fins are also visible.

Tim climbed up onto one of the maintenance catwalks within the room to get that shot. :)

Hey, I'm bribe-able, booze and frags work :D

LOL!!!

[tgreene]

Hey, I'm bribe-able, booze and frags work :D
Hmmmmmmmmmm... Hold that thought! :blown:

Here's some pics of the new Halcyon Infinity rig, along with a couple close-ups of the new "adjustable" glide system that is mounted on the back of the steel plate. The system showed up with the drop weight pockets installed, but I immediately removed them since I bought the upgraded version which has a #6 weight in the rear STA channel which holds the tank in place.


http://www.great-river.com/pix/diving/mini-DSC_8314.JPG

http://www.great-river.com/pix/diving/mini-DSC_8319.JPG

http://www.great-river.com/pix/diving/mini-DSC_8320.JPG

http://www.great-river.com/pix/diving/mini-DSC_8321.JPG

http://www.great-river.com/pix/diving/mini-DSC_8325.JPG

http://www.great-river.com/pix/diving/mini-DSC_8327.JPG



Here are the HOG regs that I have on order:


http://www.edge-gear.com/v/vspfiles/photos/3090-2T.jpg

http://www.edge-gear.com/v/vspfiles/photos/3093-2T.jpg

[tgreene]

SeaJay: Take note of the little ball at the end of the ripcord, just like on Kym's rig... DoH! :D

[tgreene]

This is me and an "insta-buddy" that I met in the parking lot at Ginnie Springs the Thursday before Thanksgiving... This pic was taken by the woman that did a large portion of the filming for the movie "The Cave".


http://gallery.nea-reefkeeping.com/album/00000001/OWdiversJEH_8468.jpg

[SeaJayInSC]

Lol... A VERY pretty rig, Tim!

You'll have to give a full review of the Infinity system. As you probably know, the Infinity is simply an Eclipse 30 MC pack with a couple of add-ons... The plastic parts bolted to the backplate, the back pad bolted to the plate, the webbing shoulder pads, and the "adjustable on-the-fly" D-rings.

You're not going to like this, but I have a feeling that once you find your ideal adjustments, you'll end up taking all of that stuff off so that the rig stays permenantly adjusted. You might end up keeping the back pad and shoulder pads, but my bet is that you'll find them redundant when you dive with exposure protection, and choose not to use them unless you're diving only wearing a bathing suit. ...And I doubt you'll ever do that - even the warmest water still has jellyfish and critters that are better left without direct contact with your skin.

To me, it appears that the Infinity system is really designed to make the Halcyon MC pack "quick adjustable" so as to make it appropriate for rental gear. I think that once you nail your adjustments, you won't want anything "quick adjustable" any more... But time will tell.

You'll have to post a full review 50 or so dives from now and give us your opinion. I'm looking forward to it - this is the first time I've seen the Infinity system.

The good news is that, whether you love the quick-adjust parts or not, they're optional... You can always remove them, which would leave you with a Halcyon MC pack with an Eclipse wing.

Interesting that there was a little ball on the end of your bottom dump - that's the first time I've seen a Halcyon wing come with one (they get in the way of stage bottles). You mention that Kym's rig had one, too... I just went and checked... She DOES! Hers is the newest wing - it was replaced under warranty about six months ago. Mine was replaced about eight months ago, under the same lifetime warranty... Apparently I got the last of the "balless" wings. :)

Obviously, they can be cut off... But it's interesting that Halcyon seems to be doing things recently to "soften" their image.

The first time you dive with stages, you'll end up cutting the ball off. :)

[SeaJayInSC]

This is me and an "insta-buddy" that I met in the parking lot at Ginnie Springs the Thursday before Thanksgiving... This pic was taken by the woman that did a large portion of the filming for the movie "The Cave".


It's very easy to see why Ginnie is so popular, isn't it? :)

[tgreene]

I'm pretty sure that once I'm fully versed on this rig, that I'll 86 the "infinite adjuster" on the back. To be honest, the sole purpose for the upgrade was the get the shoulder and back pads, and even the back pad I could sorta care less about except that it does have an inner stow-away pouch for carrying a SMB or lift bag which seems pretty nifty.

FWIW: The shoulder pads are designed as such that they can be removed in all of about 7 seconds if need be!

[tgreene]

Apparently I got the last of the "balless" wings. :)
A match made in heaven.....! :D

[tgreene]

It's very easy to see why Ginnie is so popular, isn't it? :)
I'm very seriously considering heading back over there this next week to dive the circuit again. It won't be a cheap trip, but I can find the money somehow... My only concern is not having all of my new gear in time, and if it doesn't all arrive by Wednesday then I'll have to do a lot of re-rigging and re-building since I've torn everything else apart.

-Tim

[SeaJayInSC]

Heh... They don't call me "Uno" for nothing! :)

:D

Very cool about the pouch... I have the Halcyon SMB/lift bag pouch, which sounds like it's the same thing, minus the padding. I use it on every open ocean dive, since I enjoy the extra stowage.

I typically leave it off of my rig, though, for working dives... Helps to save wear and tear, if there's no SMB or lift bag necessary.

If I'm diving dry, then I prefer to stow SMBs and lift bags in a leg pocket, since they can be restowed... But if I don't have a leg pocket, the pouch is a great place for them. :)

[fishybudguy]

im looking at getting my first bc it is a seaquest balance do you guys have any advice for me my local dive master swears by it

[tgreene]

im looking at getting my first bc it is a seaquest balance do you guys have any advice for me my local dive master swears by it

Yes, NO! ;)

[SeaJayInSC]

I know the Balance well... It was one of my favorites before I crossed over to "The Dark Side." :)

The idea that they're touting - simplicity and streamlinedness - are ABSOLUTELY two huge features to look for in a BC... And the Balance definitely fits that bill as compared to a lot of BC's out there.

If I remember correctly (it's been several years and many thousands of dives since I last dove one), the Balance also features a sort of "backplate" built in which helps add stability, despite the simplicity of the rig. Stability is also a great feature in a BC.

That said, the Balance is missing a crotch strap (as most BCs are) and instead rely on a cummerbund to keep it "down" when inflated at the surface. The problem with a cummerbund is that they tend to press upwards at your belly, restricting movement of your diaphragm - especially when they're inflated.

The Balance also is missing the ability to change bladders (wings) - again, as many BCs do - which can be necessary to dive various situations. For example, in tropical climes where wetsuits and weighting are minimal, a diver may want to wear a small, streamlined and easy-to-manage wing. For colder climes with heavier suits (or drysuits) and more weighting, a diver may need more lift and thus a bigger wing. Other times, he may choose to dive doubles, which requires a completely different wing.

The Balance (and many BCs) can not accomodate all of these situations, and is really a tropical-only BC (for single-tank rigs in warm water).

A much simpler, balanced, streamlined, rugged, durable, and flexible rig is a backplate and wing... Although if I tell you that, I may start sounding like a broken record... :)

Let me ask you this... What "type" of diving do you plan to do? Do you ever plan to dive anything but the tropics?

Here's another resource, which I wrote several years ago: http://www.deepsouthdivers.org/old/homebc.html

...One more thing stands out in my mind about ALL SeaQuest BCs... They only have ONE tank strap, and it's a crappy design. Check out ScubaPro's awesome stainless steel fully-opening tank straps, and you'll turn green with envy. :)

Interestingly, if you choose to dive a backplate and wing, you can pick whatever tank straps you want (they're standard 2" straps throughout the industry, and ANY strap will fit most any backplate and wing). For this reason, I wear TWO ScubaPro tank straps on my BP/wing and would highly recommend it. :)

[tgreene]

BTW SeaJay, where can I find a Y-Valve these days..? It seems that all anyone wants to sell are the H-Valves.

-Tim

[SeaJayInSC]

Is this for your tanks? Stick with the standard DINs - or go convertible if you want to be able to switch from yoke to DIN easily - say, for a non-DIN buddy.

I realize that in some DIR circles, they recommend Y-valves, and consider H-valves overly complicated... But Y's are full of issues, too, and if it's redundancy that you're looking for, manifold a set of doubles and be done with it.

Your red tanks would look awfully spiffy with a set of Highland bands and a manifold... :)

There's an interesting converstion about H's and Y's here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/dir/239164-h-valve-vs-y-valve.html .

I don't know of any DIR instructor that requires an H or a Y valve for a Fundies course... Which is all you should be thinking about right now. :) That said, if you take your Fundies in a single tank (and pass), you'll get a Fundies card specific to single-tank diving. If you take Fundies in doubles (and pass), you'll be much better prepared for the next course.

[tgreene]

It's funny that you posted that thread, because I read it about 45 minutes at the most before I asked the question. It looks like I probably need to begin thinking about doubles sooner than later then...

-Tim

[SeaJayInSC]

Lol... Great minds think alike. :)

How 'bout putting some miles on your new rig? :) Once you're all set with the adjustments and all, then you can buy another wing, a set of bands and a manifold, and one more first stage... And presto... Doubles.

All your skills - and your rig - will already be in place. :)

The truth is that it doesn't matter if you do Fundies in a single or a set of doubles... You're going to learn so much during that weekend that it won't matter what gear you have... :)

Get some diving done - and save for Fundies. The gear will come naturally. You're already waaaay better prepared than most!

...And don't plan on passing Fundies the first time out. It rarely happens - which means you'll probably have the opportunity to do it in both singles and doubles... :)

[tgreene]

Well, it's not like I wasn't planning on making that transition when I bought what I bought. ;)

As I mentioned a few posts back, I may very well end up back in cave country this next week to dive the new rig. I also realize that it will be quite different diving an AL80 than either the Steel100's or Steel80's that we dove in Georgia. I hated the "turtle-ing", so I'm pretty confident that I'll dive this rig much more proficiently and efficiently.

-Tim

[SeaJayInSC]

Yeah, assuming that you weight the same (which would require an additional 4-6 lbs for the change in tank, but minus 4-6 lbs for freshwater vs. salt), I think you'll find that the AL80's trim out better.

That is, your center of gravity won't be so far back - it'll be more in the center of your body, which is where it belongs.

The net result is that the rig won't tend to "turtle," especially in the last 1500 psi...

Aluminum tanks also don't surface rust in salt water like those stupid HP steels do. :)

...And by the way... Did you ever once see those HP steels pumped up to their rated 3442 psi? Me neither. There, just like everywhere, they pump your tanks to 3000 psi... 3300 if you're lucky, which cools to like 3100.

My point is that they WEREN'T HP100's and HP80's... They were more like steel 85s and steel 65s at normal pressures. So really, the only difference is their bouyancy characteristics (good for those that need weight higher and further back - which we don't, since we're diving backplates and wings), the material they're made of (much worse in the water) and their initial cost (about three times the cost of an AL80... Which means that for the same cost, we could have had 3 AL80s instead of 1 "HP" steel).

I'm a big fan of steel tanks when they can be used to get rid of weight and improve your bouyancy and trim... Which CAN happen in freshwater when you're wearing a drysuit (you'll see when you get there). Otherwise, I'll stick to the age-old AL80 (which can always be had everywhere you go, so you'll never have to change weighting and trim).

AL80's (and it's identical but miniature AL40 brother) are also the tank of choice when it comes to stage bottles - so they're a great tank to own now, and won't leave you with gear you can't use later when you're caving.

[tgreene]

Without adding any additional weight, I'm at #12 due to the #6 SS Plate + the #6 STA weight. I always dove #12 in freshwater w/ a 5mm suit, so this is where I'll begin. I can always add trim weights if necessary.
-Tim

[SeaJayInSC]

At Ginnie, try a 3 mil suit coupled with an AL80 tank, your backplate and wing, and the lead weight removed from your STA. I think you'll find the rig spot-on.

Add the lead weight to the STA for a 5 mil suit and hood.

[tgreene]

I only have 1 mil and 5 mil suits... Keep in mind too that my fins are slightly bouyant.

[tgreene]

SeaJay: I just asked w/ Andrew about the "preferred" method for taking Fundies, and his response was to take it in the manner in which you ultimately plan to be diving... DOUBLES IT IS!

He also said that since you've been mentoring me, that I should be in a far better position to take the class in regards to performance and equipment issues, and to continue to get as much dive time with YOU as I possibly can before taking the class, because I will be a far better student because of it. That's quite the compliment to you my friend!!! ;)

-Tim

[SeaJayInSC]

Aw, Andrew's just suckin' up because he knows he's about to sell me a dry suit. :)

Just kidding, of course... I'm flattered by the backhanded compliment. In all fairness, though, Andrew knows what I do about GUE divers - they all have been trained the same way, and if they passed, you'd be hard pressed to be able to tell them apart just on dive style alone... So while it's fun to consider it a compliment, he simply knows that nothing can prepare someone for a Fundies class better than diving with a DIR buddy.

Yeah, we need to get some more diving in, Tim... :) Focus only on GUE skill sets...

[tgreene]

Wetsuit arrived and fits perfect, with the exception of slightly bunching up under my arm pits, which is next to impossible to avoid with a "stiffer" suit...

Also, the only blue is a tiny strip on the outer edge of each calf, down to the ankle.

-Tim

[SeaJayInSC]

Very cool! Photos? We want photos of both the suit and you IN the suit. :)

How's the length of the arms and legs? How's the fit around the torso? It should be tight, but not so much as to be impossible to get in to...

Fit is probably the most important thing about a wetsuit.

Several of the panels on the suit ARE super-stretchy... Just not all of them (unstretchy neoprene lasts longer and keeps you warmer).

How do you like the welded and taped seams?

[tgreene]

As I said, the only place that isn't a perfect glove-tight fit is under the arms... The rest of it is absolutely perfect, and far superior to the Henderson Thermoprene which bunched up around my stomach and waist.

The suit looks and feels almost industrial in the quality, and I honestly haven't seen a wetsuit with actual knee pads in years!

I'll get full rig photos in a day or so, since the regs will be here tomorrow. :)

-Tim

[tgreene]

BTW: I've had to back off from the Florida trip, but am seriously contemplating going to dive Bonne Terre Mine this weekend, and will most likely take their Cavern Specialty course at the end of January.

If you're not familiar w/ Bonne Terre, GOOGLE it! ;)

[SeaJayInSC]

As I said, the only place that isn't a perfect glove-tight fit is under the arms... The rest of it is absolutely perfect, and far superior to the Henderson Thermoprene which bunched up around my stomach and waist.


Yeah... Photos? :)


The suit looks and feels almost industrial in the quality, and I honestly haven't seen a wetsuit with actual knee pads in years!


Kevlar. :)


I'll get full rig photos in a day or so, since the regs will be here tomorrow. :)

-Tim

Cool! Looking forward to it...