Continuous feeding NPS filter feeders

[uhuru]

With some new NPS tanks being set up (on here and other forums) I wanted to document the 2 methods of feeding that I think work best.

I am continuing to use the syringe pump for Shellfish Diet and Roti-Feast:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/DSC02596.jpg
This is self explanatory - just spend money, plug in and enjoy!

But I have also started using a kalk reactor to dose my own variation of Danny Dame's (http://stonyreef.com/blog/2008/feeding-azooxanthellate-corals/) recipe.

So this method is nothing new but here is a step by step on how easy it is to make it work.

First, you blend up a mixture of the foods (see the link above). In my recipe, I also use squid juice and oyster juice as a "smelling sauce" for the corals. I use more RO/DI water as I want this to be very dilute. Also, I use very little Ultra Pac as this has been replaced by Ultra Min D. I still use it because I have 2 bottles left and don't want to waste it.
Let the mixture sit 24 hrs and get stinky. This is what it looks like:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/DSC02815.jpg

As you can see the problem is that gravity makes the mixture separate. If you were to use a syringe pump for this, the dose rate would have to be pretty fast or you would get a very inconsistent mixture, especially if the syringe pump is pushing the food vertically upwards. You want the consistency to be like this:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/DSC02817.jpg

So this is where a kalk reactor is handy as it can continuously keep the mixture suspended as it is dosed into the tank. A kalk reactor that uses a small pump for mixing is better than a kalk stirrer that uses a magnetic stirrer as this is not powerful enough. The only modification I had to do was add a T and a ball valve to the inlet tube:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/DSC02803.jpg

Now I simply draw up the food mixture into a syringe and pump it into the reactor:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/DSC02807.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/DSC02808.jpg

I let the mixing pump run continuously. The food contains only very fine granules and it is very dilute so it doesn't cause any clogging of the pump... however I plan to clean out everything regularly.
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/DSC02801.jpg

I use a 50 ml/min dosing pump to feed the reactor tank water.
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/DSC02810.jpg

The reactor holds ~3 gal., so I set the pump to turn on for 10 min. every hour. This allows the volume of the reactor to be pumped out every 24 hrs, taking most of the food with it. Again, this is not 100% efficient and the reactor and its components must be cleaned regularly. I will say that the GEO kalk reactor is perfect for this. It has a drain at the bottom, and the pump is attached in a way that it is very easily removed for cleaning.
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/DSC02804.jpg

So far I am very happy with this method of feeding. It takes away another big chore, and allows me to feed a much larger variety of foods. I can even defrost some cyclopleeze and inject it into the reactor. I am hoping that between the syringe pump and kalk reactor I am able to provide my NPS corals the nutrition they need to thrive and grow!

[rowjimmy]

Excellent write up uhuru thanks for sharing that. I was always interested in trying these methods on my own system. Instead of feeding manually throughout the day all the time. It gets to be quite a chore.

What model syringe pump are you using if I may ask? Is the pump inside a small refridgerator?

If you had to choose between the two methods (if you couldn't use them both) which one would you say does a better job at feeding your system....the syringe pump or the kalk reactor doser? Thanks.

[Haeun]

Does Roti-feast stay evenly suspended for you to use it with the syringe pump?
I've used other rotifer products and they've settle too fast for me to use it with the syringe pump.
I'm considering ditching the syringe pump entirely in favor of a kalk reactor.

Also, is your food list pretty much the same as Danny Dame's list, or have you added on/substituted other products?

Here's the list that I'm looking at
* Rotifers - not sure yet, maybe live culture?
Freeze-dried cyclopeeze
BSD's Algae Paste
DT’s oyster eggs
Reef Chili/Coral Frenzy
ZV Sponge Power
Brightwell MB7/Prodibio Biodigest
FM Ultra Clam
FM Ultra Sea Fan
FM Ultra MinF
FM MinD
FM MinS (Amino Acid)

[uhuru]

Excellent write up uhuru thanks for sharing that. I was always interested in trying these methods on my own system. Instead of feeding manually throughout the day all the time. It gets to be quite a chore.

What model syringe pump are you using if I may ask? Is the pump inside a small refridgerator?

If you had to choose between the two methods (if you couldn't use them both) which one would you say does a better job at feeding your system....the syringe pump or the kalk reactor doser? Thanks.

rowjimmy,

I am using the base model syringe pump from syringepump.com. You can adjust the dosage on the fly, and it is a high quality unit. I like it a lot. It sits in a thermoelectric cooler, which takes the temp down to 45F, so not as cold as a fridge but since I change out the syringe every 12-24 hrs. no big deal. If I had more room I might go with a fridge, but it sits in my closet next to the tank.

It's too early to say which method is best. I have been using the syringe pump for several months now, but just started with the reactor. For sure, you have more options with the kalk reactor. The entire FM line, blended frozen foods, whatever! You can dose anything. However, it's also more work in terms of maintenance. With the syringe pump the only thing that gets dirty is the syringe! All I can say is between these two methods my corals look pretty damn happy. I'll snap some pics between now and Christmas or new years.

[uhuru]

Does Roti-feast stay evenly suspended for you to use it with the syringe pump?
I've used other rotifer products and they've settle too fast for me to use it with the syringe pump.
I'm considering ditching the syringe pump entirely in favor of a kalk reactor.

Also, is your food list pretty much the same as Danny Dame's list, or have you added on/substituted other products?

Here's the list that I'm looking at
* Rotifers - not sure yet, maybe live culture?
Freeze-dried cyclopeeze
BSD's Algae Paste
DT’s oyster eggs
Reef Chili/Coral Frenzy
ZV Sponge Power
Brightwell MB7/Prodibio Biodigest
FM Ultra Clam
FM Ultra Sea Fan
FM Ultra MinF
FM MinD
FM MinS (Amino Acid)

Haeun,

I have not had a problem with Roti-feast. It is suspended in some type of gel. Maybe Gresham can chime in if he reads this. I have had problems with other liquid suspensions. Only Shellfish Diet, Roti-Feast seem to stay relatively consistent, at least long enough to dose a days worth of food.

I use everything in DD's recipe except algae paste, Ultra Min S, sponge power and DT's oyster eggs. Oyster Feast is a superior oyster product, but I don't add this to the mix, I still dose it manually before I feed the LPS corals and watch them go crazy. I also add frozen rotifers, squid & oyster juice, Rod's Food Coral Blend, Prodibio Reefbooster, Elos SVC Zooplankton.

[GreshamH]

The Reef Nutrition products (most of them) have alginate in them which keeps them in suspension and acts as a minor carbon source (very minor as there is not much alginate in the media)

[suta4242]

Thanks for tthe write up uhuru!

Just a quick question...

As you can see the problem is that gravity makes the mixture separate. If you were to use a syringe pump for this, the dose rate would have to be pretty fast or you would get a very inconsistent mixture, especially if the syringe pump is pushing the food vertically upwards.

Why is this mixing critical - is it easier for the coral to feed when its all mixed? Not having a go, just trying to understand.

[uhuru]

If the mixture separates you might be feeding nothing but water in the beginning and then a very condensed mixture of food at the very end. This could equate to actual feeding time of only a small portion of the day. Also, there is more chance of clogging (one reason why peristaltic dosing pumps don't work for these mixtures).

The kalk reactor has been working VERY WELL. Maybe too well! I injected frozen cyclopleeze into it, and it makes its way into the tank no problem. I will have to dilute my mixture even more next time.

[suta4242]

Thanks, makes perfect sense now!

[ari5736]

This looks like a great idea. I am going to convert my phyto reactor (previously a sulphur reactor) to a dosing unit. Thanks for the write up.

[uhuru]

The first mixture I made was way too dense. You want the food in the reactor to be extremely dilute. And, you want to circulate water through your reactor as much as possible. A continuous duty peristaltic pump would actually be ideal here. Use a very dilute mixture and inject fresh food into the reactor every 12 hrs. This prevents food in the reactor from spoiling too much, and increases the amount of time you can go before you have to clean out the reactor.

[rowjimmy]

rowjimmy,

I am using the base model syringe pump from syringepump.com. You can adjust the dosage on the fly, and it is a high quality unit. I like it a lot. It sits in a thermoelectric cooler, which takes the temp down to 45F, so not as cold as a fridge but since I change out the syringe every 12-24 hrs. no big deal. If I had more room I might go with a fridge, but it sits in my closet next to the tank.

It's too early to say which method is best. I have been using the syringe pump for several months now, but just started with the reactor. For sure, you have more options with the kalk reactor. The entire FM line, blended frozen foods, whatever! You can dose anything. However, it's also more work in terms of maintenance. With the syringe pump the only thing that gets dirty is the syringe! All I can say is between these two methods my corals look pretty damn happy. I'll snap some pics between now and Christmas or new years.

Thanks for the info uhuru...please keep us posted on your progress. I look forward to seeing your pictures!

[uhuru]

Will do! I think figuring out the correct amount of food to dose with the kalk reactor is the key now. Here is a pic I just took of my dendro:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/_MG_9919.jpg

[stunreefer]

Hot Damn!

Looks great man :thumbsup: I'm diggin' the new avatar too ;)

[ari5736]

Question, is the feed to the reactor coming from the tank. I was thinking that maybe you have it hooked up to a topoff device if your tank is large enough with alot of evaporation.

I am going to set up a reactor like yours this week and use the food and proportion that Chuck Stottlemire used. Because it was a sulphur reactor it actually has an extra valve on top (for air release) where I can inject the food.

What tempertaure do you keep your tank at Uhuru?

[uhuru]

Thanks Austin! I thought you would like the avatar.

ari - yes, the feed is coming from the tank (sump). I don't see any reason to use it with an ATO, this would be less consistent than if you just used a timer or let it run continuously. If you just want to dose Shellfish Diet or Roti-Feast I think the syringe pump works best.

I run my tank between 72-74F.

[driftin]

Do you have any problems with food spoilage?

[ari5736]

Thanks Austin! I thought you would like the avatar.

ari - yes, the feed is coming from the tank (sump). I don't see any reason to use it with an ATO, this would be less consistent than if you just used a timer or let it run continuously. If you just want to dose Shellfish Diet or Roti-Feast I think the syringe pump works best.

I run my tank between 72-74F.


What makes kalk reactor better for other types of food (cyclops, etc)?

[rowjimmy]

Will do! I think figuring out the correct amount of food to dose with the kalk reactor is the key now. Here is a pic I just took of my dendro:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/_MG_9919.jpg

That "Monster in the Dark" is quite a beauty! Awesome pic uhuru...keep up the good work! :thumbsup:

[uhuru]

Do you have any problems with food spoilage?

The first try I did because I injected too much food into the reactor and it took too long to clear it out. I don't think the corals mind some food spoilage actually, but it was too stinky for me.

The next time I diluted the mixture much more and got this:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/DSC02833.jpg

24 hrs later it pretty much emptied the food out:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/DSC02832.jpg

[uhuru]

What makes kalk reactor better for other types of food (cyclops, etc)?

because you have a mixing pump that keeps everything suspended in the water... if you ever tried to mix together the FM dendro line products you'll see a definite separation if you just let it sit for a while.

[debatecoach]

uhuru:
Just tagging along. Thanks for the great information. Do you have any other links/articles on NPS corals/tanks? I've been out of reefkeeping for a couple of years (college was a disaster for this hobby), but I'm planning a comeback after I complete an internship in March. I wanted to do something unique (essentially avoid sps). Your nano-tank is an inspiration!

[uhuru]

I'm glad I can inspire you on your return to the hobby! A good starting point is here:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-02/feature/index.php

[uhuru]

I am planning for this next food batch to use only:

FM Ultra Clam
FM Ultra Seafan
FM Ultra Min F
FM Ultra Life
FM Ultra Min D
FM Ultra Pac
Prodibio Reefbooster

I want to see if I can go longer before having to clean out the reactor. Right now I can only go about 1 wk before it starts to smell really bad. It only takes about 5 min. to clean but I'm more concerned with dosing too much rotten food into the tank.

[uhuru]

The reactor after 1 wk:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/DSC02837.jpg

[GreshamH]

One week of the above recipe or your old recipe?

[uhuru]

The old recipe... starting to dose new recipe today. I'll let you all know how it goes!

[uhuru]

After dosing some of the new food mix, I noticed some of my gorgs were capturing the bubbles in the water and ingesting them. They suck in each tentacle one at a time like a sea apple. I am wondering if the bubble is coated with the food, especially the Ultra Min D or Ultra Pac. Now sometimes they catch stuff in the water they don't want, and they just release it. They don't ingest it. Why do they ingest the bubbles, if they are even bubbles? Look close in some of the polyps and you will see. You will also see some "licking" each tentacle.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/_MG_0059.jpg

[C. Schuhmacher]

HI

You can try to add some ascorbin acid in your mix
then the reaction of the food in the reactor will go slower

1 week is ok if you see on the temperature of the mix

rgds claude

[C. Schuhmacher]

HI

The bubbles are small food particles with the right
"surface" so they will eat it.
That what you see is that the polyps get a full ammount of concentrated food
good for your coral

rgds claude

[ari5736]

If you just want to dose Shellfish Diet or Roti-Feast I think the syringe pump works best.


Why?

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Roti-Feast and Shellfish Diet are pretty thick solutions, Shelfish Diet in particular. The options for continuous dosing are syringe pump, a drip bucket of some sort, or a peristaltic dosing pump. A drip bucket would give you very little control of the dosing rate. The problem with a peristaltic dosing pump is that the tubing will start to clog with these rather thick solutions. With a peristaltic dosing pump, you would have to frequently run water through the tubing to keep it from gunking up. A syringe pump is a very simple device, doesn't have the potential for clogging that a peristaltic pump has, and can pump very thick and highly viscous solutions with relative ease at a precise dosing rate.

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Btw, I posted about syringe pumps awhile ago in case anyone wanted to know more about them.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1364391

This is in an old tank that is no longer running, but I still use the same basic setup on my current tank.

[GreshamH]

Roti-Feast and Shellfish Diet are pretty thick solutions, Shelfish Diet in particular. The options for continuous dosing are syringe pump, a drip bucket of some sort, or a peristaltic dosing pump. A drip bucket would give you very little control of the dosing rate. The problem with a peristaltic dosing pump is that the tubing will start to clog with these rather thick solutions. With a peristaltic dosing pump, you would have to frequently run water through the tubing to keep it from gunking up. A syringe pump is a very simple device, doesn't have the potential for clogging that a peristaltic pump has, and can pump very thick and highly viscous solutions with relative ease at a precise dosing rate.

Is this your experience or what you've been told?

The only clogging I have experienced is the tip of the output tubing. We run our IA 9SD and others) product through a peri. pump and it never really clogs. RF will clog at the tip where if it comes in contact with air. Easy solution to that is to submerge it :)

[aninjaatemyshoe]

This is actually my experience. Perhaps, you're using a better peristaltic pump than I did though. It was definitely more of an issue with Shellfish diet.

So you don't need to clean the peristaltic tubing frequently?

In any case, I've found syringe pumps to be easier to deal with and control in terms of precise dosing amounts, especially when dealing with smaller dosing amounts. If you're dosing a good amount of RF or SD, then perhaps a good peristaltic pump would be better.

[aninjaatemyshoe]

The Reef Nutrition products (most of them) have alginate in them which keeps them in suspension and acts as a minor carbon source (very minor as there is not much alginate in the media)

What is the concentration of alginate in say Rotifeast?

[Bonta]

I have a Phosban reactor lieing around and was wondering could I use it instead of a kalf reactor ?

[muzzler]

Please tell, me your water parameters.

[GreshamH]

I have a Phosban reactor lieing around and was wondering could I use it instead of a kalf reactor ?
A phos reactor only has one pump that keeps it mixed and acts as the flow through. A kalk reactor has either two pumps, or one pump and a mixer. Both are independent of each other so you can keep mixing while not feeding.

[GreshamH]

This is actually my experience. Perhaps, you're using a better peristaltic pump than I did though. It was definitely more of an issue with Shellfish diet.

So you don't need to clean the peristaltic tubing frequently?

In any case, I've found syringe pumps to be easier to deal with and control in terms of precise dosing amounts, especially when dealing with smaller dosing amounts. If you're dosing a good amount of RF or SD, then perhaps a good peristaltic pump would be better.

The tubing dia. is crucial in this respect. I suspect your using a large dia, like maybe 1/8? or 1/4"? We use really fine stuff.

We rarely need to clean them but then again I bet we feed a LOT more then you do. We're growing massive amounts of rotifers.

I need to double check my memory with one of our scientists on the alginate question. I seem to remember the amount of it in a 6oz bottle is less then could fit on a pinhead. It doesn't take much to achieve what we need.

[GreshamH]

I was wrong about the amount. that's why we have scientists here.. and I'm not one of them :) I can't post the amount though, it's a trade secret, sorry :(

[aninjaatemyshoe]

I was afraid of that. Can't blame me for trying.

[GreshamH]

Why do you want to know at any rate? Just curious or do you think it will effect something (negative or positive)?

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Nah, I'm trying to replicate the effects for keeping other foods from settling. I'll just have to go with trial and error.

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Ok, different question for Gresham. I know we shouldn't mix Reef Nutrition products together or dilute them as that will affect their shelf-life. However, is there a problem with mixing dry food into Rotifeast? Would that have some kind of negative effect?

[uhuru]

I've been thinking of doing the same with the alginate ninja. Please share what you come up with (if it works out).

[aninjaatemyshoe]

I tried it with the Fauna Marin food. I tried it both in saltwater and RO water. The amount of alginate needed to keep the food suspended seems like more than I would want to add. I have another idea for using something else. I'll update if it works.

The Fauna Marin food will stay suspended in Rotifeast, so they must do something special...

[GreshamH]

Ok, different question for Gresham. I know we shouldn't mix Reef Nutrition products together or dilute them as that will affect their shelf-life. However, is there a problem with mixing dry food into Rotifeast? Would that have some kind of negative effect?

Sure would. The mix is designed for a certain "bio-load" and by increasing it you defeat the longevity of the mix.

[GreshamH]

The Fauna Marin food will stay suspended in Rotifeast, so they must do something special...

:) Ingredients are just one aspect of a given recipe.

[ari5736]

My continuous feeding filter gets awfully smelly by the end of a week, and needs a scrub down. I am wondering if a bottle with a air line for suspension and peristaltic pump for dosing would not be less maintenance and stench? Any thoughts, tips? My guess is this is one of the reasons you switched to syringe dosing pumps.

[uhuru]

I don't know if you are addressing that to me, but I didn't switch to syringe pumps. I use both syringe pumps and kalk reactor. I will explain my current routine in a bit. I have been having very good results and the reactor doesn't get nearly as stinky as when I first tried it.

You could use a peri pump but you will have to clean out the tubing regularly. Once bacterial growth starts to occur in the tubing it will capture the particles in the food and form a vegetation, thereby impeding flow. This happens with the kalk reactor too but its 1/2" clear tubing and its easier to clean out and cheaper/easier to replace.

[uhuru]

Current pic of my tank:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/_MG_0246.jpg

Roti-Feast - .75 ml/hr
Shellfish Diet - .35 ml/hr
FM Dendronephthya system - 5 ml injected into kalk reactor daily, kalk reactor 1/2 emptied every 24 hrs. and run with just system water for 12 hrs. Cleaned completely once a week.

[suta4242]

Very nice uhuru.

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Very nice Uhuru! I have always been envious of your collection.

On the subject of continuous feeders, here's something I recently put together:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa148/aninjaatemyshoe/DSCF0912.jpg

It is also a reactor to keep the food in continuous suspension. I decided to go with a magnetic stirrer instead of a pump in the hopes that it will not need as much cleaning. I added an Iceprobe chiller in order to keep the food cold in the reactor. It keeps the food in the high 30's. I haven't set it going yet as I'm waiting on one part, the o-ring gasket to keep it well sealed.

[uhuru]

Thanks guys. Ninja - someone had brought up that very concept to me but they had the idea of putting the iceprobe on a kalk reactor. It looks like yours is similar to a very short kalk stirrer, correct? Due to the small size I think the stirrer would work fine. I'm looking forward to see how that works out for you! I'm hoping to get a custom food reactor built in the near future.

[ReefingIt]

Hi,

I am new to the NPS concept. Is a continuous feeding system necessary to keep these types of species alive? Could they thrive on two or three feedings a day? Just curious.

Thanks.

[aninjaatemyshoe]

It would really depend upon the NPS coral. For some of them, it is definitely a must. For things like Tubastrea and Dendrophyllia, you don't really need a continuous feeder. However, all NPS corals will benefit from a continuous feeding setup.

[ReefMonger]

Beautiful setup Uhuru

[uhuru]

Thanks!

[uhuru]

Closer up shot:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/_MG_0258.jpg

I have been playing around with an Ogles Mesoscope, and it is the coolest "toy" ever. Anyone keeping NPS filter feeders really should pick up one of these. I get to see my Dendronephthya actually feeding and ingesting (without question).

[oldreefer76]

I see those Gorgs from Phishy in there they are looking good, I have got to see your set up in person

[RichK]

Simply stunning tank uhuru. Your commitment to the tank shows in the results.

[Flanders]

Closer up shot:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/_MG_0258.jpg

I have been playing around with an Ogles Mesoscope, and it is the coolest "toy" ever. Anyone keeping NPS filter feeders really should pick up one of these. I get to see my Dendronephthya actually feeding and ingesting (without question).

wow. that's really an incredible tank. I love the shadows created by the spotliglighting - leds I assume?

[Western_reefer]

Gorgeous tank!! You need to upgrade! lol

[acro76]

You just blew my mind with that tank!!! :D

I am loving all the gadgets you guys have made to continuously feed. I might have to try this!

[uhuru]

Thanks everyone!

acro76 - I'm looking forward to getting the archohelia frag. Good thing you guys are offering frags. Even if I could afford a colony, it wouldn't fit in my tank!

Flanders - It's a single LED 21w lamp with wide optics so it covers the tank well. It's mounted on the wall behind the tank, from a good distance and thus the dramatic shadows in the front.

[GreshamH]

Very nice Uhuru! I have always been envious of your collection.

On the subject of continuous feeders, here's something I recently put together:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa148/aninjaatemyshoe/DSCF0912.jpg

It is also a reactor to keep the food in continuous suspension. I decided to go with a magnetic stirrer instead of a pump in the hopes that it will not need as much cleaning. I added an Iceprobe chiller in order to keep the food cold in the reactor. It keeps the food in the high 30's. I haven't set it going yet as I'm waiting on one part, the o-ring gasket to keep it well sealed.

Dang how did I miss this one?? Great little reactor :)

What Dia tubing did you use? Did you get the o-ring? I have a ton of different large sizes if you didn't (PM me your addy if you haven't and tell me the size you need).

Just a FYI for those interested.... I use www.allorings.com for all my oring needs :D

[ReefMonger]

That new photo just became my background. I cant wait till my 180 starts to look like that. Great work!!!!

[uhuru]

Thanks! Things have been going very well with this feeding regimen (although I have ramped up the feeding even more) and I'm working on a 65g tank that will feature mostly NPS softies. Also plan to automate more stuff like daily water changes and a new automatic feeding device that I plan to have dose larger amounts of food every couple of hours.

[uhuru]

sneak peak of my new 65g:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/_MG_0222.jpg

and the fish that will be the centerpiece:
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/_MG_0331.jpg

close up of one of my gorgs (white balance not corrected):
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/_MG_0292.jpg

[Western_reefer]

Very nice!! Can't wait to see the 65 gallon up and running!:dance:

[slapshot]

Very nice. Continued success!!! I built a crude by the above sysytems feeder. So far it works well though. My Chilli coral has closed for four hours in 48 hours since I started using it. Anyone know what they do in nature?

Here is my new feeder to feed my non-photosynthetic corals:

Little fridge:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t74/TSCWB/feeder001.jpg

Fridge witha 24 hour feeding supply:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t74/TSCWB/feeder002.jpg

Pump to pump up to the tank:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t74/TSCWB/feeder004.jpg

Lastly the pipe inlet to the tank. It feeds right into a Koralia 6. Note the air pump turns on when the pump runs to mix things up. I also did not want pressure to build up in the refrigerator or a vacuum to build up because of the pump so that is why it runs only when it is pumping.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t74/TSCWB/feeder005.jpg[/

[stunreefer]

Congrats on the new tank Mike, that's awesome news!

[Sanjay]

If you don't mind my asking.. what is the cost of this fridge ? This ones looks perfect for even feeding my large tank.

sanjay.

[slapshot]

if you don't mind my asking.. What is the cost of this fridge ? This ones looks perfect for even feeding my large tank.

Sanjay.

$59.00

[slapshot]

Very nice. Continued success!!! I built a crude by the above systems feeder. So far it works well though. My Chilli coral has closed for four hours in 48 hours since I started using it. Anyone know what they do in nature?

Here is my new feeder to feed my non-photosynthetic corals:

Little fridge:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t74/TSCWB/feeder001.jpg

Fridge witha 24 hour feeding supply:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t74/TSCWB/feeder002.jpg

Pump to pump up to the tank:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t74/TSCWB/feeder004.jpg

Lastly the pipe inlet to the tank. It feeds right into a Koralia 6. Note the air pump turns on when the pump runs to mix things up. I also did not want pressure to build up in the refrigerator or a vacuum to build up because of the pump so that is why it runs only when it is pumping.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t74/TSCWB/feeder005.jpg[/

[uhuru]

slapshot that's a nice contraption - are you feeding a mix of fauna marin foods in that? how is the dosing pump tubing holding up? I have the same doser and some flasks I was thinking of using to experiment with different fauna marin mixtures.

[slapshot]

slapshot that's a nice contraption - are you feeding a mix of fauna marin foods in that? how is the dosing pump tubing holding up? I have the same doser and some flasks I was thinking of using to experiment with different fauna marin mixtures.

Yep with some DT's and Reef nutrition procucts tossed in. No problems. I have been using them for several years for my calc. and alk.

[uhuru]

I may try setting something up today. What I want to do is have a "surge" of food come in every 1-2 hrs in addition to maintaining the continuous dosing.

[uhuru]

Hey guys there is a little write up on my tank here (http://nano-box.blogspot.com/) in case anyone is interested! I discuss my equipment, maintenance and feeding routine and there are some pictures as well.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/_MG_0362.jpg (http://nano-box.blogspot.com/)

[GreshamH]

I may try setting something up today. What I want to do is have a "surge" of food come in every 1-2 hrs in addition to maintaining the continuous dosing.

How are you going to achieve the surge? Two pumps? CSD?

[uhuru]

No I don't mean a true surge, I just mean a large dose of food which can be accomplished with a single higher output peristaltic pump.

[rowjimmy]

Mike that was an excellent write up with awesome pics. Enjoyed the read...keep up the good work! I loved that pic of your rediviva frag! :thumbsup:

[uhuru]

Thanks! The rediviva is now eating mini mysis! It is open all the time.

[Aquabacs]

Hey guys there is a little write up on my tank here (http://nano-box.blogspot.com/) in case anyone is interested! I discuss my equipment, maintenance and feeding routine and there are some pictures as well.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/_MG_0362.jpg (http://nano-box.blogspot.com/)

Congrats Mike!

[GreshamH]

No I don't mean a true surge, I just mean a large dose of food which can be accomplished with a single higher output peristaltic pump.

I figured that but you never know :)

All my Masterflex are variable speed and I am pretty sure I can speed them up/slow them down via the 1-10v plug on the back (never needed to so never looked into it). Could be a way to use just one pump and have it on a controller to speed it up occasionally. An APEX would be able to do this.

[uhuru]

Thanks Mike!

Gresham - that's good to know! I'll look into that.

[slapshot]

Hey guys there is a little write up on my tank here (http://nano-box.blogspot.com/) in case anyone is interested! I discuss my equipment, maintenance and feeding routine and there are some pictures as well.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/_MG_0362.jpg (http://nano-box.blogspot.com/)

Nice writeup! Congrates!!! Tank looks great BTW! The good thing about your artical is it stresses the amount of work involved. To many people have good intentions but the long term is the tough part!

[uhuru]

Thanks! I was kind of looking back and hoping I didn't come off wrong. I want it to be encouraging, not discouraging - but at the same time honest about what is involved at least in my experience so far.

[Western_reefer]

Great write up!

[uhuru]

Thanks Moses!

[Western_reefer]

Thanks Moses!

Are you thinking about fragging that orange gorgonian any time soon? :p

[uhuru]

Haha, not any time soon sorry but is a possibility in the future :)

[Western_reefer]

Haha, not any time soon sorry but is a possibility in the future :)

lol Okay. :)

[slapshot]

Thanks! I was kind of looking back and hoping I didn't come off wrong. I want it to be encouraging, not discouraging - but at the same time honest about what is involved at least in my experience so far.

It is the hardest part. I bet there is not one of us that are seriously trying to keep these that has not had a few days of...."oh, I'll mix that food up tomorrow."

[Dejavu]

This thread has been nominated for April 2010 Thread of the Month! You can vote here (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1826683) :thumbsup:.

[oldreefer76]

just voted for this awesome thread

[Rickyrooz1]

Great thread

[flying_dutchman]

Awesome thread, thanks.

Pump to pump up to the tank:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t74/TSCWB/feeder004.jpg

What kind of pump do you use?

[GreshamH]

Looks like a Bulk Reef Supply to me.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/products/pumps-and-plumbing/dosing-pumps-and-auto-top-off-systems/brs-2-part-doser-1-1-ml-per-minute.html

or

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/products/pumps-and-plumbing/dosing-pumps-and-auto-top-off-systems/brs-top-off-doser-50-ml-per-minute.html

[uhuru]

Buckeye Field Supply is having a sale on peristaltic pumps right now:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1833330

[GreshamH]

Look like they used APT for their OEM peri's like BRS used for a while (and still does on some models)...

http://www.aptinstruments.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=AI&Category_Code=SP100

[Aquabacs]

http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r332/Aquabacs/Autofeeder/IMG_0062-2.jpg

Forgot to add this to the thread Mike.

My refrigerated Auto-feeding System consists of:
Avanti 1.7 cu. ft refrigerator
Bubble Magnus BM-T01 dosing pump


The refrigerated auto feeding system design was inspired by the system used by Steve Weast.


Mike

[flying_dutchman]

Could a mod make this a sticky? I keep loosing the thread...

[GreshamH]

Why not subscribe to it? That's what I do with any I want to save :) that way the forum is not cluttered with a bunch of stickies :D

[flying_dutchman]

I'm subscribed to 133 threads...
And also this thread is great for someone who is looking into getting NPS

[GreshamH]

Ah so now your changing your argument to include that of newbies, touche :lol:

If you want a sticky, posting on a thread is not the way to make it happen given how many thousands of posts are done in just a few hours on RC. PM a MOD ;)

[Aquabacs]

Should be on its way ;)

[tanglovers]

http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r332/Aquabacs/Autofeeder/IMG_0062-2.jpg

Forgot to add this to the thread Mike.

My refrigerated Auto-feeding System consists of:
Avanti 1.7 cu. ft refrigerator
Bubble Magnus BM-T01 dosing pump


The refrigerated auto feeding system design was inspired by the system used by Steve Weast.


Mike


How long have you been running this system Mike? I assume going with something like thise would eliminate the need for a syringe pump(s). Do you feel this combined with a geo kalk reactor would be a nice setup for pretty much any NPS (as far as feeding regiment)?

[uhuru]

I stopped using a kalk reactor when I stopped doing daily water changes :) Just too much work to keep up long term. I've been using a similar concept but much smaller container:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/DSC02939.jpg

Much easier to clean, easier to keep the food concentrated. Worked pretty good when the weather was cold, doesn't work well at all now that its 90-100F and humid every freakin day.

DFason (Dave) has been working on a chilled version:
http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss230/DFason/IMG_0081.jpg

[Aquabacs]

My refrigerated feeding set up has been running since the beginning of June. Before this was all done manually. Yes, this eliminates the need for syringe pumps. You would not need the geo reactor, you can set up an magnetic stirrer in the refrigerator and a add a mixed food cyliner/flask. This refrigerator has enough room to add a 4th tee to it if needed. That I might do in the future if I upgrade the dosing unit to GHL one and run it off my Profilux.

Mike

[tanglovers]

Thanks for the info!

Is that your return line that runs through the refrigerator with the tee's that the dosing pump feeds into?

I really like this setup, I could easily modify our new setup to accomodate something like this.

[Aquabacs]

I dont have it directly connected to my return line right now but you can do that. It is on a seperate pump and feeds right before the return pump. My return line on my tank goes through my chiller then into my tank.

Mike

[jmoney]

does the cold not damage the pump equipment?

[Terryz_]

Hey guys, I just did improvise with my Aquamedic Denitrator that have been sitting around for months into a continuous drip system... Just ran it yesterday, seems to work well.. But need to control the drip rate...

[Fishfreak218]

If you wanted to be cheap about it, couldn't you set-up some sort of container with a small powerhead and a dosing pump (instead of dropping $200 on a kalk reactor). It wouldnt be automated since you'd have to manually fill it with tank water every day and then add the food, but it would be a lot cheaper. Wouldn't this work out?

[uhuru]

See my post #110 above that's pretty much what I started doing. I can tell you that the best thing is to get a refrigerator and plumb it the way Steve Weast, Aquabacs, Slapshot and I are now doing. Not everyone is going to be able to do that though. The next best option IMO is like what you said, using a very small container and something to keep it cold. DFason is working on that but he's really busy with other projects so time of completion is unknown. I think that would be the most practical for people though because you can just fit it under your stand and there's no complicated plumbing involved.

[uhuru]

BTW if anyone is thinking of using a fridge, I have a big piece of advice. Get the same one that Aquabacs did so you can safely drill through the sides (most thermoelectric fridges are safe to drill but not all can hold the temp well), OR if you get a fridge with a compressor and refrigerant, don't be an idiot like me and just start drilling. Cut out ONLY the plastic lining on the inside, and use a blunt tool to scoop out the insulation, being careful to avoid any wires and more importantly any of the refrigerant lines. You might be able to fix the wires but if you poke a hole in the refrigerant line that's a whole other issue. Once you get through the insulation all the way to the outer covering you can get out the drill. It's not going to look as pretty but at least you won't destroy a fridge.

[Aquabacs]

Brand is Avanti and with the holes drilled, without it being sealed around the pvc pipes, holds well at 38. Just use caution drilling through the sides. The right side does have a wire going through it, running parallel with the door contact switch. If you drill above or below line you will be fine ;)

Mike

[GreshamH]

See my post #110 above that's pretty much what I started doing. I can tell you that the best thing is to get a refrigerator and plumb it the way Steve Weast, Aquabacs, Slapshot and I are now doing. Not everyone is going to be able to do that though. The next best option IMO is like what you said, using a very small container and something to keep it cold. DFason is working on that but he's really busy with other projects so time of completion is unknown. I think that would be the most practical for people though because you can just fit it under your stand and there's no complicated plumbing involved.

keeping most feeds cold in saltwater will most likely lead to degradation of the product. I for one do not recommend this approach at all.

[uhuru]

I was using chilled RO/DI water (I still use RO/DI water for the fridge method for defrosting the frozen foods).

[GreshamH]

IMO saltwater would be better if the feeds are marine sourced.

[Fishfreak218]

IMO saltwater would be better if the feeds are marine sourced.

wait im confused. First you said not to chill foods in saltwater (as it would lead to the degradation of the product), and then after uhuru said he was using chilled RODI water you said he should use saltwater?
can you explain further? Im trying to learn as much as possible about feeding NPS corals before I acquire any
thanks so much

[GreshamH]

wait im confused. First you said not to chill foods in saltwater (as it would lead to the degradation of the product), and then after uhuru said he was using chilled RODI water you said he should use saltwater?
can you explain further? Im trying to learn as much as possible about feeding NPS corals before I acquire any
thanks so much
IMO

*IF* one feels the need to use the chilled water method, and is planning on using a marine based animal, using saltwater is better then freshwater. I don't recommend using the method.

[Fishfreak218]

Oh okay, so you recommend feeding only foods that can be stored at room temperature, as chilling marine foods can cause nutritional degradation?
What method do you use/recommend to feed Gresham?

[aninjaatemyshoe]

Gresham means that marine-based feeds (ie frozen brine, prawn ova, etc.) spoil quickly even in chilled water (worse in freshwater because there is an ionic imbalance). Chilling the water would be better than room temp water, but still not great. The best choice would be to add the food to the tank immediately after it is thawed, but this isn't an easy option for continuous feeding.

[GreshamH]

Oh okay, so you recommend feeding only foods that can be stored at room temperature, as chilling marine foods can cause nutritional degradation?
What method do you use/recommend to feed Gresham?
I would be out of a job if I made such assertions, I work in the refrigerated marine feed business :lol: The method I would use would entail using Reef Nutrition feeds in a refrigerator and using the Steve Weast style plumbing as explained in this thread... but I would add the venturis :D

Aninjatemyshoe explained below


Gresham means that marine-based feeds (ie frozen brine, prawn ova, etc.) spoil quickly even in chilled water (worse in freshwater because there is an ionic imbalance). Chilling the water would be better than room temp water, but still not great. The best choice would be to add the food to the tank immediately after it is thawed, but this isn't an easy option for continuous feeding.

Exactly :)

[Fishfreak218]

I would be out of a job if I made such assertions, I work in the refrigerated marine feed business :lol: The method I would use would entail using Reef Nutrition feeds in a refrigerator and using the Steve Weast style plumbing as explained in this thread... but I would add the venturis :D

Aninjatemyshoe explained below

Exactly :)

Ohh okay now i get it :rollface:
Thank you Gresham and aninjatemyshoe

[fullmonti]

Is the Danny Dame recipe from page one still a good choice, or has some variation proven to work out better?

[fullmonti]

I know you posted another recipe, but no amounts/proportions or mixing info of the ingredients.

[Aquabacs]

This link might be what you are looking for:
http://stonyreef.com/blog/2008/feeding-azooxanthellate-corals/

Mike

[fullmonti]

That is the recipe of Danny Dames I was referring to. It has the most detailed info on mixing & amounts I've been able to find. Fauna Marin still has not put out there nps feeding manual. So I was wondering if that recipe was the best place to start, or if some variation has been found to be better?

[Aquabacs]

What corals are you looking to exactly feed? What way would you like to dispense the foods?

[fullmonti]

I'm about to start a build thread, but the short answers would be gorgonians, & carnation type corals mostly. I am self employed & home a lot so my plan is to feed manually many times a day. I'm thinking alternating frozen mini cubes of a FM mix & several dif kinds of liquid & dry foods.
Thanks
Jim

[Aquabacs]

You can do a modified version of that for cubes:

•3/8 tsp frozen cyclopeeze
•3/8 tsp Fauna Marin UltraLife
•3/8 tsp Fauna Marin Ultra MinF
•3/8 tsp FM Ultra Sea Fan
•3/8 tsp FM Ultra Clam
•2.5ml FM’s MinS
freeze them and feed the Reef Nutrition foods seperate.

One thing that I do is make Pac cubes by themselves. I make a tray or two of the cubes and keep them in a freezer bag. You can then use the Pac whatever way you want or if you dont mind leaving it out on the table (not freezing it) you can do that as well.

[fullmonti]

That seems similar & simpler recipe. I assume you are mixing these & let them set in refrigerator over nite then freezing?

And by Pac cubes do you mean Ultra Pac mix like Dannys recipe but just not mixing the two of them together for some reason?

[Aquabacs]

That seems similar & simpler recipe. I assume you are mixing these & let them set in refrigerator over nite then freezing?

I mix the Pac in a magic bullet blender. Let it sit, once it is clear and no clumps, mix all the foods then freeze.

And by Pac cubes do you mean Ultra Pac mix like Dannys recipe but just not mixing the two of them together for some reason?

Correct. Dont be afraid to experiment. Example: couple cubes of Pac with Oysterfeast, Shelfish Diet, Rotifeast direct feed to a Dendronephthya. You see how that particular coral likes it then adjust the feed as needed. More witchcraft than science ;)

[fullmonti]

OK thanks for your input! I figure the more I can learn about this up front the less chance of torturing the livestock later.

If any one else has an extra 2 cents they would like to add feel free.

[uhuru]

Danny Dame has stated that most of his Dendronephthya shrunk and withered away over an 8 month period. We don't know whether this is natural, a result of inappropriate nutrition, or simply insufficient quantities of food. Like Aquabacs said, don't be afraid to experiment, but please share whatever you do and learn with the rest of us so that we can continue to build on it. Also keep in mind there may be species differences. What works for one may not work for the other. You see Dendronephthya everywhere from arctic waters, to temperate reefs, to tropical coral reefs right next to SPS where they may be exposed to the air and hot sun for prolonged periods, and to mangrove lagoons growing right on mangrove branches.

[capecoral]

Hey... have not read the thread yet (soon!), but it sounds like my other one...
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1843241

Looks like a long lost twin bother :o

[Aquabacs]

2.0 version of the refridgerated autofeeder

http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r332/Aquabacs/Autofeeder/IMG_0008.jpg

Mike

[dainiusiva]

you are really advancing the dark side of reef keeping.what do you plan on next? water autochanger?

[uhuru]

Low quality video of venturi feeder in action with my new fridge. Please turn up the volume so you can hear the venturi "sucking." The louder sound is the magnetic stirrer. Couple other things to note:

1) Yes I know the plumbing is crooked. I took it straight from my original setup which used a larger fridge, and it didn't quite fit in this fridge as well. Oh well, it works great and doesn't take away from the aesthetics of the tanks, and thats all that matters to me.

2) I use individual pumps which has its pros and cons. The pumps can run at the same time, this doesn't seem to cause any problems but I did change the program on my RKL so that they come on staggered 10 minutes apart. I am just testing here but I dose SD, RF and a mixture of frozen/dry foods every hour. The frozen/dry foods are mixed in the flask by a magnetic stirrer, which comes on at the same time as the pump. I also added an air pump in case the stirrer jams or fails the food still gets stirred. The entire flask is dosed within 12 hours. That's about 1.2L, or a ton of food! But it also feeds the fishes. This works GREAT for the fishes BTW. They pretty much just pick at food from the water column all day and get fat. Great for my anthias and OSFF. I dose OF every 8 hours as it tends to kill the skimmer for at least 2-3 hrs.

3) Aquabacs (Mike) really discovered the best fridge to use for this IMO. It keeps everything cooler than my compressor fridge did and uses very little electricity (less than a standard light bulb according to the box). From what I can tell it uses large computer fans. You can get it online from Staples with free 1 day shipping if you pick up in store.

Pics coming after video:
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[uhuru]

How I drilled through this fridge (Avanti 1.7 cu. ft.) and narrowly avoided another disaster:

1) Using the correctly sized hole saw, very carefully drill only through the THIN plastic lining on the inside of the fridge where you plan to run the pipe through.
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/DSC03225.jpg

2) Using a large flat head screwdriver or spoon, gently scoop out the insulation all the way through until you get to the metal sheet on the other side.
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/DSC03227.jpg

3) Look inside the hole carefully to ensure that there are no wires or pipes in the way. Then use the hole saw again to drill through the metal. Make sure you use a hole saw designed to drill through metal. Here you can see how I avoided shredding up a wire using this method. The wire is probably connected to the light switch. The light switch also controls whether the fridge turns on or off - so if you destroy the wire, you have no working fridge.
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/DSC03224.jpg

Finished product. Crowded, but I can still get in there and change out the flask or bottles easily. In case you're wondering why 4 pumps and only 3 bottles, behind the bottle of RF is a bottle of OF.
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/DSC03236.jpg

[slapshot]

Oh I was so going to get on you about the crooked pipe. :spin2:That looks great. I can't wait to hear if you notice a difference in your animals. Keep up the great work!

[uhuru]

Haha, I bet it is kind of irritating to look at for some of you neat freaks - but hey, the fridge door stays closed 99% of the time and looks great otherwise :)

I think the biggest difference I'm going to see is better water quality, less problems with pathogenic bacteria, infections, algae outbreaks, etc. Really the biggest benefit of all this is that the food stays fresh for as long as possible. Second is much easier maintenance since bottles will last for weeks. I know Gresham doesn't support mixing of the frozen and dry foods with water but still it's gotta be better than doing it at room temperature which I have been doing for a long time (and I've been dealing with mysterious bacterial infections in my tank for a long time).

[slapshot]

I know Gresham doesn't support mixing of the frozen and dry foods with water .

He doesn't? Why?

[uhuru]

It starts breaking down as soon as it goes into the water.

[slapshot]

It starts breaking down as soon as it goes into the water.

Understanding where he works and his loyaties (and I use a lot of their products) but how would you then feed dry food? drop it into the tank dry?

[uhuru]

Yes Mike feeds dry foods that way and Claude as well. I used to do it that way but since I also want to feed frozen cyclopeeze and nutramar ova throughout the day this is the most practical way at this time. Maybe Gresham should look into doing a preserved/suspended cyclopeeze product and ova product! I currently buy my frozen food in bulk, saves me a ton of money. For my dream tank build in the future I will have a freezer above the tank functioning as a surge tank.

[flying_dutchman]

Maybe try a system similair Wolfgang colsman's system?
http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=318084&page=11

[Aquabacs]

Understanding where he works and his loyaties (and I use a lot of their products) but how would you then feed dry food? drop it into the tank dry?

This is how I do it for the Fauna Marin foods...didnt clean anything up for you ;) Simple fishmate autofeeder and a feeding ring.

http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r332/Aquabacs/ARTISAN%2050%20G/IMG_0012.jpg

Mike

[fullmonti]

I presume the ring is to keep food from spreading until it sinks?
What are you using for a feeding ring?

[Aquabacs]

That is correct.

For what brand it is...I honestly dont remember. I was in Petco picking up some kitty litter and walked pass the fish food section and said...oh I can use that..and grabbed it.

Mike

[fullmonti]

OMG!
Is it not amazing what can be done given enough imagination, time & money!


Maybe try a system similair Wolfgang colsman's system?
http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=318084&page=11

[glparr]

How quickly does it break down? I'm mixing my little cocktail and in tank water and feeding it all within 12 hours. I keep it refrigerated when not feeding. My mix is two kinds of FM powder, Min D, rotifers, Cyclopeez, and Rod's Coral mix in about 50 ml. of tank water.
Gary

[uhuru]

Seafood is very delicate. I'm sure it starts breaking down right away. My mix lasts about 12 hrs as well. Before I started using a fridge, it would smell rotten by that time. In the summer it would start smelling bad by 5-6 hrs! With the fridge, it still smells fresh. I know its not fresh, but it sure is a lot better than before.

[GreshamH]

Understanding where he works and his loyaties (and I use a lot of their products) but how would you then feed dry food? drop it into the tank dry?

I was a hobbyist YEARS before I started working here, and I still am a hobbyist. Even if I didn't work for Reed I would still make the same call as it comes not from a place of brand loyalty, it comes from a place of not wanting to feed a compromised product. Dry feeds are easily dosed, in fact, they easiest of all things to do. A simple Eheim automatic feeder and a feed ring is all you need. Why mix it into a liquid and start the decomposition of the product early?

[GreshamH]

I presume the ring is to keep food from spreading until it sinks?
What are you using for a feeding ring?

Looks like an Ocean Nutrition unit.

[slapshot]

I was a hobbyist YEARS before I started working here, and I still am a hobbyist. Even if I didn't work for Reed I would still make the same call as it comes not from a place of brand loyalty, it comes from a place of not wanting to feed a compromised product. Dry feeds are easily dosed, in fact, they easiest of all things to do. A simple Eheim automatic feeder and a feed ring is all you need. Why mix it into a liquid and start the decomposition of the product early?

Sorry Gresham, I was not questioning your dedication to the hobby, your integrity or your imparting your considerable knowledge to us, at all. I did not mean it the way it sounded. The only reason I wonder if wet is better is because it is more usable. One of the main reason I like Reeds products. Any idea what the decomposition rate is? Is it really bad, as decomposition I would think would involve bacteria which may in itself become a food source. I ask these questions out of ignorance. I really want to know. I may be doing it all wrong.

[GreshamH]

I don't actually have any data, just personal observations, but you have peaked my interest in gaining data so I have all ready shot off some emails to start the process. I thank you for your post and I didn't feel you were truly questioning my dedication. I mainly posted that for others that may have read the post wrong. I have a lot of respect for you and you have always shown me the same :) That is one thing I truly enjoy about azooxanthellate keepers, we're all feeling our way around in the dark and depending on each other. It feels more like a "family effort" then that of stick keeping (oh which I am still a HUGE fan of as well, I make no bones about that one).

[alexruegamer]

hi mike

i´m planing at the moment my feeding regime...
can you tell me how much watts does your refrigerator use?
what and how often do you feed at the moment?
alex

[Aquabacs]

hi mike

i´m planing at the moment my feeding regime...
can you tell me how much watts does your refrigerator use?
•Power: 83 watts, 115V, 1.1 amps
what and how often do you feed at the moment?
The dosing rates that were set on the Bubble Magnus doser are:
6 ml daily of Shellfish Diet (1ml every 4 hrs)
12 ml daily of OysterFeast (1ml every 2 hrs)
20 ml daily of Rotifeast (.83ml every hour)
I have to adjust the settings since I am now programming the GHL 4 pump doser connected to the P3 + adding Arcti-Pods to the autofeeder instead of dosing them manually.



Mike

[uhuru]

I have been experimenting with using both Shellfish Diet and Phyto-Feast. Really putting the system to the test in how much dead phyto it can handle, with the intention of producing tons of live zooplankton and bacterioplankton within the tank. I currently use the following schedule:

60 ml daily Shellfish Diet (3 ml/hr x 20 hr)
30 ml daily Phyto Feast (1.5 ml/hr x 20 hr)
10 ml daily Oyster Feast (5 ml twice daily)
1200 ml daily of frozen/powder food mix (100 ml/hr x 12 hr).
In the mixer, I use:
- 2" cube frozen cyclops
- 2" cube frozen rotifers
- 1" cube frozen ova
- 1200 ml ro/di water
- 2 teaspoons mix of FM Ultra Clam, Ultra SeaFan, Ultra Min F, Ultra Life, Spectrum Reef Micro, and 20 drops of Ultra Min D.

[buildareef]

uhuru, you said in the article on your tank that you changed from sps and nps tank to solely an nps tank? Were the sps not doing well? Was it more of an interest to focus on the nps? Thanks for this thread! Learning a lot!

[uhuru]

Both of the reasons you stated. SPS were not doing well and I didn't want to deal with fixing it while trying to learn about non-photo corals.

[capecoral]

These no-light corals are really neat, and cheaper without lights. Wonder why more people don't do them.

[deaddat]

These no-light corals are really neat, and cheaper without lights. Wonder why more people don't do them.

-Very high flow
-Incredible Protein Skimmer
-Continues Feeding requiring refrigeration and pumps
Lots of money on equipment and food, I would think it would easily cost more than lights.

NPS LPS are much easier to take care of

[flying_dutchman]

and cheaper without lights.
not so much, with the money spend on foods, salt, and filtration. You'd properly be able to buy your dream fixture every year

[capecoral]

Still hope to see more of these...

[euromomtx]

what fantastic info! Thanks so much :)

I have question about this:
The Reef Nutrition products (most of them) have alginate in them which keeps them in suspension and acts as a minor carbon source (very minor as there is not much alginate in the media)

Does that mean that for those of us that use BioPellets and a bacteria source (I do Prodibio Biodigest) the Reef Nutrition products could cause a (mild) bacteria bloom in the display tank?

[capecoral]

I would think the food itself would cause algae first, since there is a lot more of it.

[euromomtx]

I am not sure I understand what this means. My main worry was the carbon source causing a bacterial bloom. I'm okay with algae.

[GreshamH]

what fantastic info! Thanks so much :)

I have question about this:


Does that mean that for those of us that use BioPellets and a bacteria source (I do Prodibio Biodigest) the Reef Nutrition products could cause a (mild) bacteria bloom in the display tank?

No most likely not, its so minor its not even worth mentioning really...

[euromomtx]

Excellent (especially since I already got the fridge on order and am bugging our local LFS to see if they can get me the Shellfish diet)
Most of my gorgos are photosynthetic but they've really been enjoying the dryfeed delivery system Mike posted. The anthias think it's great too.
Wonderful thread. Thanks so much.

[slapshot]

Excellent (especially since I already got the fridge on order and am bugging our local LFS to see if they can get me the Shellfish diet)
Most of my gorgos are photosynthetic but they've really been enjoying the dryfeed delivery system Mike posted. The anthias think it's great too.
Wonderful thread. Thanks so much.

If they wont get it for you, you can order it direct.

[euromomtx]

http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r332/Aquabacs/Autofeeder/IMG_0062-2.jpg


I was able to get a new Avanti 1.7 Beverage Cooler for very cheap on Ebay! :D
Before I start cutting/drilling I'd love some clarification on the plumbing hardware:
are there any check valves between the ball valve and the connectors to the PVC pipe? Do I need to worry about water that rushes through the PVC tube to go up the silicone tubes?

[uhuru]

I take it you missed the venturi discussion? Check Aquabacs thread or my thread for a detailed discussion, or look a couple of pages back for a pic from Aquabacs (I think I posted a pic of mine too but its not as nice).

[slapshot]

You can either use the check valve method or the venturi method. If possible use the venturi method as it is much safer, no clogging up and more consistent. If not then yes, you need a check valve at the point where the water leaves the tube and/or where it goes into the pipe.

[euromomtx]

Excellent. I saw venturi was mentioned earlier in this thread but I didn't understand the connection (in my mind venturi=skimmer). After reading Aquabac's thread though I totally get it. Thanks :)

[uhuru]

Here is a recent pic of my feeding setup. I'm now feeding H20 Life Nanno9 Live Phytoplankton from the beaker on the right. The magnetic stirrer only stirs the plankton gently and it comes on every hour. To the left I still mix all of my FM foods as well as frozen cyclopeeze, ova, baby brine shrimp and rotifers.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/IMG_1003.jpg

[Aquabacs]

Save you photos Mike, hopefully the new site should be up soon (I know it has been longer than expected so dont read me the riot act). There is going to be a dedicated section for feeding systems ;)

Mike

[fullmonti]

Mike
Are you part of new site, or friends with some one who is. You seem to have some inside connection.
Jim

[Aquabacs]

Yes Jim. This week there has been some progress but I am not the sole person who sets the launch date of the new site ;) Hopefully soon. The majority of the site is for azoox corals but there will be some room for those who are scared of the dark.

Mike

[fullmonti]

Looking forward to it!

[capecoral]

Looks like plankton heaven :)

[Terryz_]

Hi I am wondering if I should post here...
I am doing a food mix of FM Ultra Seafan, FM Ultra Min F and Nannocholorpsis and storing it in the fridge for next day usage. Which I will dose into the tank via dosing pump in the morning and in the afternoon...
Will this process spoil the food mixture? Maximum is one day every night I will prepare the mixture..

Thanks..

[Terryz_]

Anyone using Reef Pearls in their food mixture?

[SWINGRRRR]

Anyone using Reef Pearls in their food mixture?

Have you been able to find a website that sells it? I know Scott at Aquarium Specialty is hoping to have some in after the holidays. But I cant find any, anywhere else.

[flying_dutchman]

aloha aquatics and aquarium specialty have ordered them in but are having problems with the USDA. I have some friends in the Netherlands so I might setup a group buy.

[SWINGRRRR]

aloha aquatics and aquarium specialty have ordered them in but are having problems with the USDA. I have some friends in the Netherlands so I might setup a group buy.
Id be up for the GB. Just LMK.

[GreshamH]

aloha aquatics and aquarium specialty have ordered them in but are having problems with the USDA. I have some friends in the Netherlands so I might setup a group buy.

I suspect you as a non business will run into even more issues then just USDA trying to go this route.

[samhon]

This has really been an awesome thread.

So far everything we have seen are DIYs.

I was wondering if there is any commercial brand that sell ready made automatic continuous feeding system with the fridge/cooling device.

Anyone can give me some websites/ links?

[GreshamH]

Nothing commercial yet.

[stormrider27]

I've read every page of this outstanding thread but I am a little confused. Do you all daily mix up food to be automatically be feed or can you mix up one weeks worth at a time? The reason I ask is what do you do when you go out of town for a week? My neighbor is willing to feed my fish but I wouldn't want to trust anyone to make up NPS food daily while I am gone nor would I want to burden them with that responsibility.

Thanks!
Mark

[fullmonti]

Lot of different people & lot of different ways of doing it. I mix a batch & freeze cubes. Some say they mix couple days worth at a time. I think Mike pre cuts cubes & pre measures dry foods each for individual feedings. I don't think there is a standard way of doing it at all. Sorry, I bet that wasn't the answer you where hoping for.

[Namyar]

So I have been hand mixing and feeding for awhile and am also inspired to make a feeder for my tank. Sun coral, sea apples right now but want some other NPS corals.

Sent from my Liberated DroidX

[dzhuo]

I am having a hard time locating this small Mobicool frideg that you guys are using. Does anyone have a link to the actual product?

[fullmonti]

Sears has them, pretty much any home center like Lowe's etc. Other than that just google mini fridge.

[dzhuo]

Thx you!

A couple more questions:

1. Seems like most of you guys end up using BRS dosing pump? Would the pinching action smash / destroy the larger food particle like Roti-Feast?

2. Oil that came with most liquid food I fed stop the skimmer for a few hours, wouldn't continuously feeding throughout the day almost means no skimming most of the time? Have you notice any significant difference in skimmate production?

[Aquabacs]

Thx you!

A couple more questions:

1. Seems like most of you guys end up using BRS dosing pump? Would the pinching action smash / destroy the larger food particle like Roti-Feast?

Using the GHL/Profilux dosing system but other systems can be used to provide similar results but can require more refrigerator room. Would have minimal concern over the pinchin of the rotifers


2. Oil that came with most liquid food I fed stop the skimmer for a few hours, wouldn't continuously feeding throughout the day almost means no skimming most of the time? Have you notice any significant difference in skimmate production?

Have adjusted the system to dose feeds 4 times a day. With reducing the intervals provides more recovery time for the skimmer. Best practice would to be observe the performance of feeding intervals (4x,5x,6x,etc) view how they effect your total system (skimmer, parameters, livestock) and adjust to your individual needs.





Mike

[GreshamH]

Thx you!

A couple more questions:

1. Seems like most of you guys end up using BRS dosing pump? Would the pinching action smash / destroy the larger food particle like Roti-Feast?

No. While they "pinch" the tubing, they "push" the liquid. Zero concern. I pass MUCH larger items like live copepods through them with no worry.

2. Oil that came with most liquid food I fed stop the skimmer for a few hours, wouldn't continuously feeding throughout the day almost means no skimming most of the time? Have you notice any significant difference in skimmate production?

Easily solution, does multiple times. Some feeds like Roti-Feast have no effect on skimmate production.

Gresham

[Bricky]

Is there food sitting right before the injector input nozzle or does it get pulled in up to the point of the peri pump?

[Tony Romano]

Are any of the Brightwell or Kent products worth dosing via GHL doser? I don't have $$s or time right now to setup fridge.

Also on plumbing to a dosing pump, does dosing pump act as check valve?

[Aquabacs]

Is there food sitting right before the injector input nozzle or does it get pulled in up to the point of the peri pump?

Some food remains in the line between the pump and the injector. One of the main reasons why the dosing unit is inside the refrigerator. Now, depending on how tech savy you are...you can run a 3 way solenoid between the food of choice in the refrigerator and the intake of the peri pump. Reason for the additional solenoid valves would be to flush the lines out with salt water between each feeding. A set-up in this manner would also allow the dosing pumps to be relocated outside the refrigerator.


Mike

[herring_fish]

Some food remains in the line between the pump and the injector. One of the main reasons why the dosing unit is inside the refrigerator. Now, depending on how tech savy you are...you can run a 3 way solenoid between the food of choice in the refrigerator and the intake of the peri pump. Reason for the additional solenoid valves would be to flush the lines out with salt water between each feeding. A set-up in this manner would also allow the dosing pumps to be relocated outside the refrigerator.


Mike

This made me think that I need to change the tube layout for my robot feeding system on a little garage plankton farm that I am building. If I plumb the replacement water through a solenoid much closer to the food, I can use a single tube to inject all liquids into each station.

I have a solenoid on my auto top off system but I haven't given them nearly enough though. I understand them on a basic level but I need to know them at an intuitive level so that I can made my designs a simple and as cheaply as possible.

I was originally going to feed my towers with solenoids only but with different liquids and powders, there were a few things that made me feel that I needed to build a 2 axis robot.

I have a thread running http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18841420#post18841420 where you can get more details but I was hoping that you guys and gals could give me your ideas for using solenoids to there fullest advantage. The robot is run with an inexpensive micro controller so I can accurately turn them on and off when I want to.

http://asaherring.com/reef/tower/PlanktonTowerFlowOld.jpgIn my old design, I have two tubes going to the moving carriage. This idea allows me to just use one.
In the second picture, I show the solenoid in blue, right next to the pump in the refrigerator.

http://asaherring.com/reef/tower/CritterTowersFlow6.jpg
Again, how can I improve my design.

[acro-ed]

I'm interested in setting up a mini fridge systems for my tank and want to get everyone's opinion on what foods would be safe for 4-7 days? I travel often and have anthias that require regular feedings.

It's not a NPS tank so I normally feed my fish: Mini brine, mysis, Rods Foods, frozen cyclopeeze etc...

[Six line]

I am wondering if any of you guys know of the differences between 'baby' Stereo, Sclero, and Dendronepthya. Is it the sclerites I should be looking at? Some images I see of mine resemble Stereo and then others resemble Dendro. They are growing but not quickly enough for me to compare to one of the many pictures of adult colonies out there.

[GeorgePillas]

Hi uhuru,

I am a new member on here but I have read your threat about non photosynthetic corals a few times. I was wondering if you have had any DENDRONEPHTHYA and if yes what's the success rate?

Also if you don't mind me asking what is the latest feeding regime you are using?

Thanks in advance,

George

[Bongo Shrimp]

Here's my host: http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu79/SXM50/d0c410ae.jpg

Ordered two dosing pumps from BRS and am hoping to get this built next weekend!

[Aquabacs]

Going old school Avanti ;) Have it plugged in for a day or so and test out what the interior temp is at. Try to keep it around 38 before drilling it out. Also might sound strange but if you a real warm section of the house, anything between 85 and 90 in temp, plug the fridge in by it and test to see what the temp is inside. I say this just this because you never can tell when you can have a real hot spell in the summer and ac in the house goes out. Always good to be prepared for worst case, realistic, senerio.



Mike

[Bongo Shrimp]

Going old school Avanti ;) Have it plugged in for a day or so and test out what the interior temp is at. Try to keep it around 38 before drilling it out. Also might sound strange but if you a real warm section of the house, anything between 85 and 90 in temp, plug the fridge in by it and test to see what the temp is inside. I say this just this because you never can tell when you can have a real hot spell in the summer and ac in the house goes out. Always good to be prepared for worst case, realistic, senerio.



Mike

Yeah thanks. I saw it in a friends basement and he said I could have it since it's so old. I was like yay a new project :D.

Anyhow I don't have any super hot spots in my house (thankfully) but I will run it for a while and get the temp set.

So I will be using it for my reef tank and my seahorse tank (so the seahorses can eat more often) but I was wondering how to keep the mysis suspended in the holding tank so the pump can suck up the right amount. Air stone? I mean if nothing keeps it agitated all the mysis will rest at the bottom is a dense pile. I guess this goes for the reef tank too since I feed mysis and cyclopeeze.

[Bricky]

I've been told that using an airstone would degrade the foods faster. You might try a magnetic stirrer from Hanna.

[Bongo Shrimp]

I've been told that using an airstone would degrade the foods faster. You might try a magnetic stirrer from Hanna.

Yeah I was thinking about that. Does anyone know how big the difference is? I don't want the food going in if it's even starting to go bad especially if it's going to my seahorses.

I mean optimally I'd like to get the magnetic stirrer but if it isn't that necessary I could wait. It's all $$$.

[deehz]

Well, I just read the whole thread. Well also reading a lot on NPS corals. I'm going to do a 48" cube at the beginning of the year. I am going full on NPS corals.

What I have read and has been a consensus is that yes, NPS require a lot of feeding due to the fact that they don't have a symbiotic relationship with zooanthalae. The heavy feeding of course when it degrades and decomposes will most certainly effect the water quality in the system. The cause and effect to this is daily water changes. To me, IMO, seems to be a bit much. Then again, IMO, everything in this hobby seems to be exponentially grand.

Many have used, from what I have read, NO3 reactors, reactors, or bio-pellets to combination of all to control nitrate and phosphates and nutrients within the water. However, has anyone thought of using an ATS with their NPS system? The reason why I ask is because they're many positives to going to this method: water changes, oxygenation, stability of pH, control of organic/inorganic nutrients, bacterial production, pod/phytoplankton production, and most important, ability to feed the system heavily. I have friends that swear by this method and the thread here on RC as well as others, attest to the great success this method has to offer.

Has anyone tried an ATS with a NPS system? If so, was it successful? Any unforeseen issues? Coral health degrade? Troubles with nutrient control? Any help with would be greatly appreciated. If you cant already tell, I am going full on ATS when I start the system and will keep you guys updated. Thanks in advance!

[herring_fish]

I had this controversial light bulb go off in the really 90's because I wanted to grow filter feeders. NPs weren't popular back them but sponges, gorgs, feather dusters and the like were avalable.

I do not use any mechanical filtration and haven't for a couple of decades. I didn't grow dendros in my old tank and I am building very slowly in my new one. I cannot boast of broad success yet because I don't want to throw away (too much) money.

My current effort is experimenting with growing enough live plankton to maintain NPs.

I do know that I can feed the tank ridiculous amounts of dead food without getting nitrates up.

One complicating factor is that I have a sump full of very porous coral rubble that has lowered my nitrate to the point that my algae stopped growing and so my phosphates have gone up.

Once I get them back down, I will take it back off line and return to the ATS without any competitors for nutrients.
(My avatar is a rendering of the splash from my old ATS)

[deehz]

Herring_Fish, thank you for the reply. This solidifies my thought into incorporating the ATS as the main form of filtration. I want to keep the system as natural as possible and from all the readings, this is the only way that I have read w/o to much mechanical filtration, is the way to go. I also thought of incorporating a sump about 3/4 of the size of the system with a VDSB, grasses, and macros. However the downfall of it as you mentioned, the ATS and alga's will be competing for food/nutrients. So this wont be possible unless I fed extremely heavy. Nonetheless, this gets rather expensive as well.

Why do you think that most people don't go with a full on ATS or supplement an ATS with their systems? I would think that an ATS would be beneficial with NP corals/system to control nutrients. Right? Especially in a system where feeding consistently has a huge impact on the water quality, but also the amount of energy needed to export these nutrients via mechanical filtration and constant water changes is just as daunting as well.

Thanks for the info!

[herring_fish]

It's hard to argue with success. Skimmers work. An ATS works. Both ways work. Some people rely on vodka as their primary nutrient management tool. There are lots of ways to get the job done. Each one has its positives and negatives.

I don't want to defend or assail any methods. I know that I have read a lot of material on the Dynamic-Aquaria(n) paradigm. I have run most of the criticisms to ground and or tested them myself. The more that I know about it, the more that I like it. The more that I use it, the more I have faith in it.

The different versions of the DSB are found in may main streamed systems now. Macro algae is beginning to be part of many of those same system. Biological diversity is in a refugium is very common these day. They were all concerted heresy by many hobbyist just a few years ago. Adding plankton, dead or alive, was strongly advised against and now we grow things that require it.

As time goes on, more and more people come to the same conclusion but which is better, Chevy or Ford? They both get you from point A to B. They both give you that warm and fuzzy feeling. These days, both will let you stay out of the repair shop.

[uhuru]

There was someone here that tried an ATS with a full blown azoox system. I don't remember his user name at this moment, maybe someone else can chime in. I don't think he had much success with it. It was a large system too. Wasn't able to keep up with the nutrients in itself.

[herring_fish]

I can put in a ton of food in safely. Right now I am working on lots of projects like (non-traumatic) water flow and growing plankton so I'm not buying the good stuff but I can feed all that I want.

[Bongo Shrimp]

So I'm ordering two stirrers for my new setup and I was wondering if I should get two flasks with stoppers for use with the stirrers? Mike?

[Bongo Shrimp]

Done except for the flasks on order. The temp says 42 cause I was installing the lights. How does it look?

http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu79/SXM50/9831a594.jpg

[dzhuo]

Nice set up so far Bongo.

Where did you purchase the refrigerator? Are you going to drill a couple of holes for the return pipe to go through?

[Bongo Shrimp]

Nice set up so far Bongo.

Where did you purchase the refrigerator? Are you going to drill a couple of holes for the return pipe to go through?

I got it from a friend's basement for the price of carrying it up the stairs to my car ;). I am not doing it the way where a pipe runs through and the pumps feed into that pipe. I will have flexible tubing running in and out the same hole in a loop. Kinda hard to explain. I might make a diagram for people to see so they understand how to do it. I would do it the way you are thinking of but I do not have a sump to plumb into and I am doing two tanks from one fridge.

[dzhuo]

Diagram will help.

How are you plan to keep the entire flexible tube within the refrigerator and fresh without the return pipe running through it?

[Bongo Shrimp]

Ok I wasn't clear- A pump in the tank will constantly push water through the loop (out of the tank, into the fridge, and then back out. In the fridge, a t-splitter will be in the loop and the feeder pumps will feed into the T-connector. That way food never sits in the loop. Get it? I'll make a diagram.

[Bongo Shrimp]

Here's a 5min sketch.

http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu79/SXM50/52d62b43.png

[dzhuo]

Sounds like a good plan.

What brand is the fridge and are there any model or serial number you can find? How do you plan to get the rubber tubing into the fridge?

[slapshot]

A T will only work if you have a back flow preventer on the input side. The pressure of the loop will push back on the paristallic pump and your system will not work. Instead of a T you need a Venturi.

[slapshot]

Does that make sense Gordon?

[Bongo Shrimp]

yeah but I thought we determined the mysis will clog it up. So it won't work?

[slapshot]

Right, you have to find a venturi to inject the food. That way the pressure wont back feed. I'll look around, even a backwards Y connector would be better than a T. Plus without a backflow preventor you run the risk of breaking a tube in the pump and causing a leak because iut will be under pressure. Let me think about this.

[Bongo Shrimp]

Right, you have to find a venturi to inject the food. That way the pressure wont back feed. I'll look around, even a backwards Y connector would be better than a T. Plus without a backflow preventor you run the risk of breaking a tube in the pump and causing a leak because iut will be under pressure. Let me think about this.

Ok thanks cause idk anything about plumbing.

[herring_fish]

Is there such a thing as a back flow stop valve at that scale and made of plastic that would be reliable?

PS ...or could you use a peristaltic pump instead of a powerhead to create less pressure and flow?

[slapshot]

Is there such a thing as a back flow stop valve at that scale and made of plastic that would be reliable?

PS ...or could you use a peristaltic pump instead of a powerhead to create less pressure and flow?

Yes, they are made for pool chemical insertion equipment. Also, you can find them at most pet stores. They sell them for air pumps from the old days when you had to worry about water getting into your air pump from undergravel filters.

[nivram]

What about putting your pump on a timer or programming it to only run after the dosers have injected food into the return line?

[Bongo Shrimp]

Because the water in the loop will still go up the food line into the peristaltic pump. The food will clog the proper sized back-flow preventer.

[slapshot]

What about putting your pump on a timer or programming it to only run after the dosers have injected food into the return line?

If you stop the flow in the loop hydrogen sulfide will develop. After playing with a number of test options the only one that works with something as large as whole mysis, is to dump it into the tank. This will limit your distance from the refrigerator and the display. Unless you want to build a full 1/2 loop, but I think your space limits your pump size so I'm not sure that is possible.

[nivram]

If you stop the flow in the loop hydrogen sulfide will develop. After playing with a number of test options the only one that works with something as large as whole mysis, is to dump it into the tank. This will limit your distance from the refrigerator and the display. Unless you want to build a full 1/2 loop, but I think your space limits your pump size so I'm not sure that is possible.

Ive seen this on a different type of setup used to feed brine shrimp in the main tank and hydrogen sulfide was not an issue. I can see it being an issue if you were only feeding and rinsing once ever couple days. I imagine in a NPS setup you are doing multiple feeding cycles daily.

[Aquabacs]

Gordon,
Keep in mind if you decide to go the venturi route; venturi valves are rated a minimum gallon per hour or minute. Having a pump push water through the venturi at less than minimum rated spec makes the valve ineffective and will cause water to flow out the air injection port on the valve.


Mike

[herring_fish]

Has anyone actually run into this problem?

My intent is to simply have a bigger peristaltic pump for the water rinse than for the food. I don't know for sure that this will work. I have just assumed that it would. Please give me your thoughts on this. Perhaps I have over looked something.

The water pump uses a bigger diameter tube and the motor is bigger so when the smaller motors run, the back pressure should not affect the upstream pumps. I will just have several "T"s in a row after the water pump and then go to the tank from there. The smaller diameter feeder tubes will flow into the bigger, water pump to tank tubing.

The way that I figure it, the very low flow food pumps will not produce much pressure. I will keep the tubes from the food pumps to the "T"s short, inside the refrigerator. The water pump can be outside the fridge. When the water pump turns on, I am hoping that the circuit (if you will) will see the lowest path of resistance after the "T"s . Hopefully, everything will flow toward the tank and not back up any of the feeder tubes and of course not back up to the water pump when the feeders turn on.

[slapshot]

If I understand what you are saying it would work but you need a one way valve after the peristalliic pump. The tubes do rupture. If that happened you would have a leak. If you are just dumping it into the tank it should work. I'm not sure I get what you are trying to do. Feed then wash the line out?

[herring_fish]

http://asaherring.com/reef/tower/PlanktonTowerFlowOld.jpg....In my old design, I have two tubes going to the moving carriage. This idea allows me to just use one.....

Further back in the thread, on 06/08/2011, I created post 206 that this came from.
I want to pump a few different foods to the 6 foot, 6 inch diameter plankton towers (but this could just as well be to a display tank). I would hope that the lowest resistance would be at the open end and not back up the smaller, more viscous feeding tubes.
The smaller pumps would simply deposit food into the bigger tube and the water pump would wash it out right after the other pump(s) shut down. For example, I might pump 1 to 5ml(s) of phyto paste into the tube and 1 to 3ml(s) of something else. Then I would wash it with a quart of water. I would do this every 3 hours.
I use 1 quart because that is the amount that I need to pump into the plankton tower to change 2 gallons out of 7 every day in order to harvest the plankton.
I would do this for each tower( 1 to 6 of them), every three hours so there might be only a few minute rest(5 to 8) before moving on to the next tower. That is way all the automation.

[aussiedan]

http://www.spaparts.com.au/products/Mazzei-Venturi-Injector-884K-3%7B47%7D4%22-Barbed.html

Is this a suitable venturi or do you need to go to the more expensive black model?
http://www.spaparts.com.au/products/Mazzei-Venturi-Ozone-Injector-978K-1%22-threaded-%252d-Kynar.html

[slapshot]

The cheap one is fine.

[Wave Ace]

http://www.spaparts.com.au/products/Mazzei-Venturi-Injector-884K-3%7B47%7D4%22-Barbed.html

Is this a suitable venturi or do you need to go to the more expensive black model?
http://www.spaparts.com.au/products/Mazzei-Venturi-Ozone-Injector-978K-1%22-threaded-%252d-Kynar.html

Have you got ebay ?

as in the UK you can get them for £30

[Aquabacs]

If you have access to the venturi injectors made by Kent, it is a far more cost effective solution.




Mike

[aussiedan]

Thanks guys, I've purchased on of the white Mazzei venturi's for the automatic feeding setup.

This is the main component, I even managed to find a fridge with 4 xpre-drilled 6mm holes on each side wall which is the right size for standard aquarium airline tubing. I've not completed any plumbing plans at this stage but will likely run the pipework loop on the external side wall of the fridge so there is only a very small (1cm or less) of non refrigerated line to worry about.

http://www.dyimages.com.au/images/azoox/001.jpg

[herring_fish]

Very nice! Is that a converted Red Bull fridge that you bought from another reef hobbyist?

This brings me to one of my mistakes and questions. I wanted a glass front a few years ago so I bought a glass front, black beverage cooler. I didn't notice that they only go into the 40's or 50's, not 33 or 34 degrees. I set it aside because I wasn't ready for it yet but now, I am planning to buy a mini-fridge replacement thermostat to replace the one that I have in the cooler.

I have been warned that many of these coolers and fridges are built right to the minimum edge. The unit that I have may be so inefficient that a thermostat my not help. If it does, my bill might me too high. Looking at the construction of the non-glass wall, they look to be the same as a regular fridge in construction and thickness. The compressor is the same and a dorm fridge so I am going to try putting good money after bad.

That is, unless someone that has experience with this talks me out of it. Please ....save me from myself!

[aussiedan]

the fridge is actually branded as a coffee fridge (or milk bar) and made so that milk bottles can be kept inside and automatic coffee machines can use milk as required by being pumped from the fridge directly. It is a proper refrigerator and has a compressor and refrigerant inside.

I am still looking at the temps it can achieve and with my very inaccurate thermometer I am getting it to around 5-6 deg Celsius (very low 40's in Fahrenheit) which will hopefully be sufficient..