Heniochus in a reef

[RockinSmall]

Anything i should consider before purchasing this fish?

[tektite]

Just make sure you get Heniochus diphreutes and not Heniochus acuminatus. They're very similar looking but H. acuminatus is not reef safe.

[RockinSmall]

ok, so how can i clearly distinguish between the two?????

[insane]

This listing describes some of the differences which are subtle.
http://fishprofiles.com/profiles/marine/Chaetodontids/Heniochus_diphreutes/

Do a search here on RC for "diphreutes" and you will find a bunch of threads on how to identify them. I am going to be getting a small school of them for my 180g.

This photo shows Moorish Idols on the left, Schooling Bannerfish aka False Moorish Idol (Heniochus diphreutes) top right & Pennant Coralfish bottom right.
http://www.illinimastini.com/Moorish-pennant-bannerfish.JPG

[RockinSmall]

i dont want to make a mistake, perhaps i will take a pict and post it here and u guys can help me identify. my lfs has one.

[bigworm175]

I had one and its tough to tell the difference. The first time I tried I got Heniochus A. because I couldn't tell. He started picking on polyps in the QT almost immediately. My second try was correct. The key is that the black line splits the anal fin in the middle on Heniochus D. it is slightly higher on Heniochus A. Here's a pic of the reef safe one for ya:http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv54/bigworm175/2009_05100013.jpg

[RockinSmall]

ok.. so to reword this myself for memory sake,

if i wanna try this i need to look for the heniochus D and the rear black strip will partially go up into the super long top fin, while the non reef safe hiniochus A. has the black stripe going more like 3/4 of an inch and higher into the fin, sound right?

[insane]

ok.. so to reword this myself for memory sake,

if i wanna try this i need to look for the heniochus D and the rear black strip will partially go up into the super long top fin, while the non reef safe hiniochus A. has the black stripe going more like 3/4 of an inch and higher into the fin, sound right?

Nope. Only the anal fin has anything to do with the differences and not the top fin. The easier way to tell them apart is that Heniochus diphreutes has a shorter snout while Heniochus acuminatus has a longer snout. You can see it in the photo I posted.

[RockinSmall]

ok... heres both types... can u copy these images into paint or photoshop and circle the parts on the fins i should pay attention to?

Heni D
http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss312/lajenney/heniD.jpg

Heni A
http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss312/lajenney/Heniochus20acuminatus.jpg

[tektite]

The fin below the yellow tail, that's half black and half white.

[RockinSmall]

they both look half and half to me

[insane]

I have read countless threads on here with descriptions on the differences of the anal fins and I still don't see it.

[RockinSmall]

hopefully someone will circle where exactly i should look. the lfs brought 3 in today.... 2 had very long top fins, the other one was kinda stubby and half dead.. and there were 2 starving moorish idols snacking on sponge... i dont feel comfortable relying on the lfs identification.

[insane]

I found a couple of the old posts that describe and show what you need to know.

The black band that runs through the anal fin helps us to identify.

H. acuminatus
http://www.fishbase.org/images/species/Heacu_u4.jpg

H. diphreutes
http://www.fishbase.org/images/species/Hedip_u2.jpg

Look at the black & white parts of the anal fin. Its %50 white - %50 black for H. diphreutes. However, in acuminatus its %60 white - %40 black.

The angle of the black band also helps.

The band is continious in H. acuminatus
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7280/acuzq3.jpg

It has a break in H. diphreutes
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8977/diphun9.jpg

Angel7989's fish has a continious black band and the anal fin is not half black.

If you check more photos of these fish through internet and look into these two details, you will understand the difference much easier.

HTH

I've never been a fan of the black/white ratio....especially when anal fin length says it all whether juvenile or not. Here's a link with distiguishing features...


http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=5588


Noted under morphology.....

Dorsal spines (total): 11 - 12; Dorsal soft rays (total): 22 - 27; Anal spines: 3; Anal soft rays: 17 – 19. Distinguished from the very similar H. diphreutes by the longer snout, rounder shape and longer and more angular anal fin (Ref. 48636).


Here's another pic of the adult diphreutes from the same link.
http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=7769



Everyone has their particular method of telling the two apart....pick what works for you.....but to me, there's a notable difference between this...a diphreutes


http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/images/species/Hedip_u0.jpg


and this....an acuminatus

http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/images/species/Heacu_u2.jpg



It's easy to tell the difference on adults.......but very difficult when juveniles.

[museumguy]

I have one in my 1700g reef. It was a model citizen for 2+ years until we introduced some expensive and apparently very tasty modern, open brain and other LPS corals. I wish we didn't have it but it all but impossible to catch now.

[cs12109]

Anything i should consider before purchasing this fish?

These fish get quite large. I had 2 in my 300 and I would not put one in a tank less than 100 gallons.

[RockinSmall]

All good info.... but ive come to the conclusion, that even if i did have a large tank id avoid it b/c i JUST dont think i would be able to properly identify it in a store. i understand what the picts are intending to point out, but the curve of the black stripe into the fin looks just as bent on both... if there is a slight variance, i doubt i could tell in a small lfs tank... i will just have to buy that clown tang....






j/k

[Chiefsurfer]

the last quoted pictures by steaveweast, it seems that their dorsal area is actually the easiest way to tell, however as he said, I guess those are adults, and juveniles are much more difficult to tell. What I see, is that on the diphreutes, all of his dorsal bones are in the long fin. While on the acuminatus, there are a few dorsal bones before and after the long dorsal fin. Is you look at that area, the acuminatus is also more like a pyramid with gradual sloping from the long fin, and the other is straight down to the body.

Very small differences.

[blue888blue]

Just out of curiosity, would a Heniochus pleurotaenia (horned bannerfish) be reef safe?

When you guys say that certain fish nip or bite on polyps, does this refer to all polyps, SPS, LPS, etc. Or do they just nip on certain types of polyps?