Feeding question

[Ahwagirl]

Hi everyone,

I have two, female, 5-month old h. erectus (got them about 2 weeks ago). They are eating frozen mysis for me well. The only thing I'm wondering is how many times a day I should be offering food. The breeder said 3x a day. Then a SH book I have said make sure the food is available 15-20 minutes each time. I am putting in about 1 tsp. of frozen mysis and they go after it, but it seems to be over in about 3-5 minutes. Frequent water changes don't bother me-- I do 10-15% every week in my 56 gallon (my other tank). So if I overfeed the SHs I'm not too worried about the tank, because I clean frequently anyway. Hopefully we won't have an issue with the uneaten food polluting the water.

How many times a day, how much, and for how long should I feed? I know that one of the biggest issues with successfully keeping SHs is keeping them well fed. And I've read so much conflicting info!

I wanted to get some input from others that have these wonderful little creatures. :wave:

TIA!
Jill

[ChadTheSpike]

First I would recommend target feeding with a turkey baster or something like that (this way you can make sure all the food you add gets eaten), besides the SHs will soon recognize the turkey baster and come as fast as they can when they see it!!!

Here is what works for me: I dont think that there is an amount that can be specified like feed each SH x amount... its more of a feel and observation than specifics. Feed until your SHs bellies are well rounded. For my adult erectus, that is usually 5-8 (or so) large mysis shrimp soaked in a beta gluten based vitamin 'dust'. Most days I feed twice a day, but occasionally they only get fed once a day (I would recommend twice). I also culture amphipods that I periodically add to my fuge to keep the SHs fed when I cant feed twice a day (or occasionally miss a day).

I would try to avoid uneaten food if possible, its better for you and the SHs in the long run.

Congrats on the new SHs!!! when can we see pics???!

[Ahwagirl]

Thanks for the info, Chad. The turkey baster is an idea I'd heard of before. I tried it the first few days they were here when they were eating rather sketchy but they are doing well now. They seem to like to going after them at their sslllooooowwwww pace. I just wondered how much and how often. Sounds like if they get 5-8 mysis at each feeding they should be good. I'll keep you all posted.

Here are some pics.

[rayjay]

I think hobbyists are divided on this one.
I feed 3 times a day, but I don't have any pod life for them to eat.
Some of my seahorses will go to a feeding dish so that the uneaten food can be easily removed before decaying, but even after a long period of time, many will not, so I've discontinued using the dishes.
Now I have to be diligent about tank cleaning and I vacuum at least once a day, all the uneaten food I can find. I also use a battery water filler that I like better than a turkey baster, to blow off the trapped food from in and on the rock work, let settle, and remove.
Even with this, I sometimes get an ammonia problem so to be sure, I test for ammonia very frequently in all the tanks.

[rayjay]

Is that an "unprotected heater" I see in the pictures?

[cykenp]

I agreed with Chad, as long as you see their bellies are nice and full, you have some nice happy seahorses!

[Peka]

I feed both my erectus and reidi adults 2 times a day. I used feeding dishes in all of my tanks so that I can clean out any uneaten food. I turn the filters off and leave the food in the tank for at least an hour so the SH have time to all come to the dish and eat.

[Ahwagirl]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. So far they are very good eaters and seem to be happy girls. I am thinking of moving over my watchman goby as I'm not sure he's getting enough to eat in the 56 gal (the midas blenny and coral beauty are pigs!!). So as soon as he's swimming around and I can get to him I may move him to the SH tank and see how they all do. I can always move him back if needed. ;)

Rayjay-- please elaborate on the unprotected heater thing.....:D


Is that an "unprotected heater" I see in the pictures?

[rayjay]

By unprotected heater I mean a heater that a seahorse can wrap a tail on and possibly get burned when it is hot.
There are sleeves that can be installed to prevent this.
Preferably there would be no heater at all in their tank.
I keep fans blowing on my tanks to keep them cooler than the room is. Preferred temperatures would be 68° to 74°F.
While I have heaters in all my reef tanks, there are none in any of my seahorse tanks.

[Ahwagirl]

Will I need to buy a new heater or can someone suggest an online place to find sleeves?

By unprotected heater I mean a heater that a seahorse can wrap a tail on and possibly get burned when it is hot.
There are sleeves that can be installed to prevent this.
Preferably there would be no heater at all in their tank.
I keep fans blowing on my tanks to keep them cooler than the room is. Preferred temperatures would be 68° to 74°F.
While I have heaters in all my reef tanks, there are none in any of my seahorse tanks.

[rayjay]

Why do you need a heater?

[Ahwagirl]

Challenges keeping the temps down in the summer.... so if I don't keep the water at a steady 76 or so, there will be a big jump between now and summer. I use a fan to keep the temp within an acceptable range in the summer, but the local breeder I got them from indicated it would be better to keep the temperature steady year round. So the heater keeps the tank at 76/77 in winter and the fan does the same in the summer.

Why do you need a heater?

[TamiW]

Challenges keeping the temps down in the summer.... so if I don't keep the water at a steady 76 or so, there will be a big jump between now and summer. I use a fan to keep the temp within an acceptable range in the summer, but the local breeder I got them from indicated it would be better to keep the temperature steady year round. So the heater keeps the tank at 76/77 in winter and the fan does the same in the summer.

That is probably THE reason to keep a heater on a seahorse tank: temperature stability. Its not so much that seahorses would never experience temperature fluctuations in the wild; but in a small volume of water the temperature can change quite rapidly.

As rayjay said, you can get a heater guard, and I would highly recommend one. Seahorses don't seem to realize when they're hitched to a heater that they're getting burned until its too late.

[Ahwagirl]

Thanks, Tami. Any idea (online) where to get one? Or should I try Petco, etc. I don't think my LFS has them... never seen them before anyway.

Or do I need to buy one of those units already insulated?

That is probably THE reason to keep a heater on a seahorse tank: temperature stability. Its not so much that seahorses would never experience temperature fluctuations in the wild; but in a small volume of water the temperature can change quite rapidly.

As rayjay said, you can get a heater guard, and I would highly recommend one. Seahorses don't seem to realize when they're hitched to a heater that they're getting burned until its too late.

[breutus]

I feed mine on a pretty funny schedule I feed two times one day, one time the next day. But I also have the tank full of different macros and have a refugium hooked directly to there tank with pod condos in it lol, so i get a lot of life they hunt for in the tank.

I also use the feeding dish method, and have 2 Caribbean peppermint shrimps to help eat left over food and produce larve that the seahorse eat as well, if you put peppermint shrimp in they should be Caribbean and not east Atlantic or Florida picked ones which is what most the lfs sell commonly

last but not least I have three black mollies in this tank that produce young every couple of weeks that the SH seem to devour at a very young age lol, they do not eat any of the SH food it's actually funny to watch one about to give birth because both the SH would go and sit by her where ever she goes lol

wow actually listing it all out lol I think my SH eat alot lol, I always feel like im under feeding hahaha

[Ahwagirl]

I decided to add a skunk shrimp yesterday as I'd read that the bode well with SH's and do a good job of cleaning up. I also have decided to feed the girls 2 times a day (but a bit more) and see how they do.

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I'm still looking around for a heater sleeve. :fun2:

[Elysia]

I wouldn't worry that your tank is going to have seasonal temp variations. Again, that is just me (someone who admittedly has "reef" animals in a tank that is currently "cold" -- approx. 66 degrees; the tank is known to hit 75 degrees during summer heat waves as we do not have air conditioning, but these changes are gradual through the season.)

[ILoveSeahorses]

I feed my horses 2-3 times a day. Normally 3 times... and 2 if I'm not able to be home. I used to feed mysis, then tried mini mysis... however they seem to like Arcti Pods a lot better and they're doing excellent on it! I also have Copepods in my tank..

[dapettit]

I feed both my erectus and reidi adults 2 times a day. I used feeding dishes in all of my tanks so that I can clean out any uneaten food. I turn the filters off and leave the food in the tank for at least an hour so the SH have time to all come to the dish and eat.

Feeding dish, please elaborate. Any pics?

Dave-

[Paul B]

Seahorses don't have a true stomach, only a short tube so they have almost no capacity to store food. If you ever dove with them, you will see them eat or try to eat something all day. They eat very little at each meal because they can't dijest very much at all. All of that extra food they are eating at one meal will not be dijested.
Like mandarins, they should be fed as often as possable. They will of course live on a meal twice a day but less food, more times a day is much more natural for them.
I have collected them numerous times here in NY and raised them to adulthood.
I even invented and patented a feeder for them that would feed them live brine shrimp all day. We no longer feed live brine shrimp so I don't sell the thing any more. Mysis is much better for them.

http://www.breedersregistry.org/Articles/v4_i3_paul_b/paul_b.htm

[FishGuy5]

Paul-great article and invention!! Have you developed anything or heard of anything to do the same concept for mysis? TIA

[Paul B]

No, mysis would be tough because the brine shrimp are alive and soft.
I sold over 6,000 of them.
I don't keep seahorses anymore, when I collect them, I just give them away.
I do keep bluestriped pipefish but I hatch baby brine every day for them.

[namxas]

our SH tanx are fed once a day, but they are aquascaped with lots of macroalgae so the SH can hunt at their leisure (and they certainly do). it's really fun to watch them being "patient" when they see a pod that they REALLY want but just can't quite reach.

by all means, do invest in a heater guard and drop the temp a couple of degrees. i've seen too many burned SH in the ER on the SH site.

[Aqua_boy]

Young Hippocampus erectus may feed for as long as ten hours of each day and consume up to 3600 baby brine shrimp during that time.

[namxas]

Young Hippocampus erectus may feed for as long as ten hours of each day and consume up to 3600 baby brine shrimp during that time.

with the exception of zots, a 5 mo old SH should no longer be on BBS. however, fry tanx should be fed at least twice a day and any leftover BBS removed prior to the next day's first feeding as their nutritional value declines rapidly.

[dapettit]

Great article Paul. Now how do we make one?

Dave-

[Paul B]

Do you want to feed brine shrimp?

[namxas]

i think that folks need to realize that non-enriched Artemia is almost devoid of nutritional value, and even then, it's not a very good staple food for syngnathids (i won't go into keeping SH in reefs or with tankmates that will outcompete them for food).

SH are special needs fish, and if those needs are met, are not hard to keep. there's no "magic bullet" or "lazy way" that is a substitute for proper care.

all that being said, it's a good way to offer ADDITIONAL food to SH...i just don't want people to think that ABS is a substitute for mysis or live larger pods.

[rayjay]

While I'm a believer in multiple foods for all my fish, my seahorses are more limited in menu.
In fact, I have a pile of reidi's that won't eat anything but Salley's San Francisco Bay Brand frozen brine shrimp.
That being said, I also do not believe the hype that says brine shrimp are devoid of nutrition.
From the "Manual for the Production of Live Food for Aquaculture" comes the following information for brine shrimp grown from Great Salt Lake cysts before gut loading.
Protein levels of cultured juveniles and adults, 49.7 to 62.5%
By gut loading, you can increase this level for protein or you can add fatty acids or vitamins.

[namxas]

that's indeed a good book.

it's the HUFA's and vitamins that are missing, which is why i said "non-enriched"...protein is only one part of the equation. additionally, i've actually had SH that had no idea what to do with Artemia.

that being said, you're one of the few folks i know who has consistently raised reidi with good results, so whatever you're doing is obviously working for you. personally, my fry raising days are over, it's way too much trouble (and i only raised erectus!).

i think one of the reasons i get a chill when i see "autofeeders" is that new keepers will think they can hook one up and be good to go and their SH will basically care for themselves. then they wonder why their SH don't make it since they knew no better. i'd hate to see them disappointed for lack of understanding the dynamics of keeping SH.

[rayjay]

I too would be upset with those using a seahorse feeder.
Adding live bs to the tank is one thing, as they can be eaten in short order, but to put them in a holder that they feed on over time is pointless as they become devoid of food in their digestive tract in about 1 1/2 hours if juvenile or adult.
As for the huffa, or fatty acid content, I personally feel that later juveniles and adults don't need as much as many hobbyists feed them. (as in steady diet of PE mysis)
As I feed my live brine juveniles and adults spirulina or Algamac Protein plus, I don't feel that the seahorses have needs beyond what those products give to the brine food.
As for seahorses not having anything to do with artemia, the parent reidi's of the reidi's that I grow out, won't touch frozen brine, only mysis, but these offspring won't touch anything but the SF frozen brine as I mentioned.
Go figure!!

[Paul B]

TodayI would not feed seahorses on a diet of brine but it can be done. This pair which I collected can be seen transfering the eggs to the male. The babies were raised to adulthood on a diet of just brine shrimp. Not gut loaded, just plain brine but lost of them. Mysis is much better for them and babf fish is even better as that is what I see them eat in the sea where I collect them.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/scan0003-1.jpg

[namxas]

we feed mostly Hikari mysis, with PE "treats" every so often. that being said, we have added a cube of BS Plus to the "thaw" for the red-saddled anthias trio we added to the tank back awhile, and the SH do eat a few of those as well.

this is a great discussion!

[AD87]

What about soaking frozen brine in any type of additives such as selcon. Would you be able to increase the nutritional value.

[namxas]

IMHO, soaking the FBS in anything doesn't actually get it INTO the BS, but ON it, and then it's prone to simply washing off when it hits the water, or is rinsed off when you rinse prior to feeding out. if you don't rinse prior to feeding, the Selcon rinses off when it hits the water, and now you have a tankful of Selcon that will fuel nuisance algae and will trash your water quality, and SH are already hard on water qual.

we experimented with all sorts of things a few years ago, and even with thawed mysis, which is more "porous" than BS, the enrichment just didn't seem to stay on, so we abandoned the practice.

conversely, you can FEED live Artemia the Selcon and it WILL get inside the SH when they eat it. so, as long as the enrichment is small enuff to fit into their mouths, you can turn live Artemia into a living "vitamin capsule" for the fish. in fact, beta glucan is a great enrichment that boosts the immune system.

[AD87]

What about feeding seahorses baby guppies? Any thoughts?

[Paul B]

Baby guppies are not an appropriate staple food for seahorses or any other salt water fish. Mollies would be better and a full saltwater fish still better, unfortunately, these foods are hard to come by

[AD87]

Baby guppies are not an appropriate staple food for seahorses or any other salt water fish. Mollies would be better and a full saltwater fish still better, unfortunately, these foods are hard to come by



Not changeling your question but I would like to know why guppies would not be a good food source, also I didn’t make it clear but the live baby fish would be used for additional nutritional value not the main food source.


Saltwater mollies wouldnt be that much trouble to raise.

[Paul B]

They would be fine as an additional food source. Fresh water fish have very differet oils in them than salt water fish and in time, if this were their only diet your fish would suffer from a dietary deficiency which affects their liver. But as long as you feed them other things the guppies would be fine and it would also supply them with calcium.

[Ahwagirl]

Fantastic info, everyone. Yep, I've read the books, forums, etc. about not having a true tummy, etc. That was the main reason for my original ? How often, how much? Sounds like smaller, but more frequent feedings is best.

They are currently eating the mini-mysis since they are 5 months old and seem to handle the smaller mysis better. I also put some copepods in the tank before the erectus settled in.

With that, what other supplements, treats, etc. should I offer them? My LFS carries something called "Reef Stew" that a local breeder cultivates. I don't know the exact content, though.

Anywho, what else should i be offering the SH's to keep their diet varied to the extent that is appropriate?

:celeb2:
Seahorses don't have a true stomach, only a short tube so they have almost no capacity to store food. If you ever dove with them, you will see them eat or try to eat something all day. They eat very little at each meal because they can't dijest very much at all. All of that extra food they are eating at one meal will not be dijested.
Like mandarins, they should be fed as often as possable. They will of course live on a meal twice a day but less food, more times a day is much more natural for them.
I have collected them numerous times here in NY and raised them to adulthood.
I even invented and patented a feeder for them that would feed them live brine shrimp all day. We no longer feed live brine shrimp so I don't sell the thing any more. Mysis is much better for them.

http://www.breedersregistry.org/Articles/v4_i3_paul_b/paul_b.htm