Trading corals @ LFS

[J3REEF]

Happy Holidays!

I am going to frag up my tank over the weekend and will be trading in the frags for store credit at my LFS.

First timer at this and wanted to get an idea on what I could/should expect at the LFS in store credit for the frags.

Will be cutting up a frogspawn, bright green birds nest, hammer head, ducans, a few very nice acros, and other assorted LPS & SPS.

I see my LFS selling a very small frogspawn head for $50.00.
Dont expect this, but what should I shoot for? Looking for general guidance to support my LFS and get a good trade back.

[jrp1588]

1 head of frogspawn for $50! wow, I bought a piece with 3 full head plus 4 tiny budding heads for $45. And I thought my LFS was expensive. I haven't traded any SW stuff ever, but I did used to breed FW fish, and most places gave me 1/4 sale price.

[teesquare]

That is a "land mine question"....You will be far better served by discussing with the LFS owner FIRST some pricing guidelines. It varies wildly from store to store.
That way you can decide if it is worth it or not, and it lessens the chance of you getting offended with his offer - while you stand there, with all of the corals in bags, and buckets - and no other options:D
T

[epicenter]

Acording to the LFS here in Medford Oregon your frags would be worthless. This is what I have been told by all three store owners. I was told that a basketball sized birds nest was worthless, a 25 head colony of frog spawn had no value. Nice sps mini colonies have no market value to them. Of course when you are the purchaser a 1" frag is worth $35.00 but to them the same frag when grown into a colony & traded back has no value. I just give my frags to local reefers & along the way have met some cool people. Good luck with your trades at the LFS, here you could expect roughly 5% of what they would sell them to you.

[BriGuy31+]

If my LFS wants what I have, they give me 1/3 of what they would sell it for in store credit.

[fanandy8]

The LFS I have dealt with selling frags and freshwater fish whne i raised them gives anywhere from 25-50% of their retail price.

[reefboy1994]

The LFS I have dealt with selling frags and freshwater fish whne i raised them gives anywhere from 25-50% of their retail price.

same when i trade in corals. my lfs store gives me 5 buks for each frag of xenia, and i normally bring in 10 at a time :)

[ZOAKEEPER]

I don't know what part of Illinois you are in, but there are many fine clubs in Il. you could look up. If your proficient enough to frag corals you should look up and post in the Illinois forums. Most reefers will give you a fair and decent price for your frags. Better yet trade for something you may not have. I have experienced good and bad LFS's that will sell your frags and give you a percentage, but they will never give you what you may feel is a fair price. I know coral wholesale prices and usually they will give you that or below for credit. Post pic's here at R/C. Look through the selling forums for ballpark prices. And before long they'll be gone. PM me, I'll buy some from you. Good Luck. :dance:

[deviilsadvocate]

I have to agree with ZOAKEEPER. Why not hook up your local reefers instead of the LFS which is only going to make a profit on your stuff while giving you peanuts for it. IMO your better off meeting some cool people in your area and trading for stuff you may not have than just walking into a store and having them offend you with an offer while your standing there with your corals in bags. Post somewhere on here, I'm sure you will meet someone local that could provide your stuff with a good home.

[Pescado Amigo]

25% of retail is a good guage. But the store you deal with certainly has the right to offer whatever they want. The advantage to selling to the LFS is that you can unload allot of stuff quick.

[1DeR9_3Hy]

Trade in values are way down (just like everything else), in my area at least. Im buddy buddy with one store owner, and another guy who runs a store and both have told me they feel terrible telling these guys that come in with fish and frags that they either cant give them what they are worth or worse they cant take them at all because there current stock is not moving that well.

I say make someones day in a local club near you, as they say...

"Merry Christmas"!

[fishguy86]

we trade in frags every week ,, first of all you need to find a store that has a big coral business ,, so should be stocking 100's of corals plus you might have to drive a little to find the right store .., right now we have people that drive over 100 miles to bring in and trade corals we give from 25 % to 30 % in store credit .. it is hard for me to belive that a base ball size coral has no value ,,. We sale frogspawn heads for around 29.00 each so you would receive 7-10 or so ... bird nest the same little more for the dunkins and around the same for nice size acros ... Find the right store and you could move all of them at once instead of having to deal with lots of people ,, this will save you tons of time .. Any way good luck ... and great job in growing your corals ~!

[epicenter]

it is hard for me to belive that a base ball size coral has no value.

I agree & that was a basketball sized colony of Birdsnest I was told was worthless because no body wanted BN any longer. & here I see somebody is selling zania. WOW I wish we had a few stores willing to pay 25% market value for frags. No joke last week I took a Marshall Island rock the size of a dinner plate covered with Palythoas (they were mostly brown) some green to the LFS & recieved $3.50 off a choco. chip to feed the shrimp. I will never give another frag to a LFS & most of my purchases are now online.

[tpenn187]

if a lfs is telling you that a large birdsnest and a large frogspawn has no value, i say BS. i am sure that if you gave it to them they would take it and make plenty of money! at the store that i help at we will give the people what we would pay for the coral wholesale. wholesale on those things would be between 5-15 bucks. but this is store credit. if you take a $15 store credit and apply it to something of a 15 value, he really only gave you about 7 bucks for your piece. i would try your local clubs first, then your lfs if you cant seem to sell it. i try to sell my frags that i have to the store for half of what i sell them for, so that he could sell them for what i sell them for.

[epicenter]

[QUOTE=tpenn187;16270014]if a lfs is telling you that a large birdsnest and a large frogspawn has no value, i say BS. i am sure that if you gave it to them they would take it and make plenty of money! QUOTE]

You are no doubt exactly right this is why I will no longer take frags for store credit.They only give at best 5% of retail. In my area any how. I think fishguy86 gave sound advice when saying you may have to drive to get a fair shake at pricing.

[fishguy86]

just remember that with out local fish stores this hobby would not be here and owners of these stores are trying to make money doing this ... you need to find a beter lfs and i'm sure there is one somewhere .. also make sure to try to talk to the owner about trading in corals not some employee that doesnt care about the business ... Guy Griffin Fishy Business Columbia SC...Store owner for 22 years and counting...!!!!!!!!!

[teesquare]

Right on Guy!
I have known Guy for most of his 22 years in this business - and his store is a fine example of what we as hobbyists want from a LFS. I drive 3+ hours to visit his store, because I know he is supporting the locals via aquacultured frags. ( I will bet his trade in policies are better than some of the stuff earlier in this thread.

But - in fairness, if a store has an adundance of a given coral - or the market for it is not what it once was - we have to understand as hobbyists that tank space is expensive shelf space in a store. It is limited, and important to place what the store owner thinks he can get a decent turnover rate and fair profit on - in that space.
I think that the OP needs to look around for owners like Guy - that are real hobbyists themselves.

T

[stymee69]

let us not forget that it is all about supply and demand.. capitalism at its best!

[John Zillmer]

An LFS will likely take you more seriously (and give you more credit/less hassle) if you:

-- call ahead;
-- give them corals that are encrusted onto their mounts (freshly cut SPS can be touchy, and LFS can get well grown out frags from their wholesalers);
-- build a trade-in relationship with them (that is, the first time you bring corals in, they will likely not give you their best price, since they don't know what quality you will provide them);
-- don't try to get rich, or appear as if you are trying to get rich;
-- realize that it is much easier for them to buy from wholesalers, who supply them with exactly the corals they want, in packaging that can hold the corals for a couple hours if they are busy, who will give them something in case of certain losses, and who deliver on days that are convenient for the LFS.

All that said, I think that LFSs are cutting their collective throats with their generally hobbyist-unfriendly trade-in policies. There are exceptions, but LFS owners would do well to read the above posts for hobbyists' attitudes toward LFSs, and then realize where a great deal of their business has gone.

[NirvanaFan]

That is some good info from John. Definitely call ahead and ask them if they need/want them. The two stores around me both give 25% cash and 33% store credit. So if they sell a coral for $60, they will give me $15 cash, or $20 store credit. It's not too bad and they have pretty much taken everything I need to get rid of. One time one store didn't need kenya tree, but the other store said to bring them in.

I agree 100% with letting the frags heal after you frag them before trading them in. The LFS is taking a huge risk of them dieing right after fragging, so they may be more hesitant in taking frags from you in the future.

Also, take care when bringing the frags in. Don't just put them in plastic baggies and carry them in in a grocery bag. It will look better if you put them in specimen bags and pack them in a cooler. I travel about 5 minutes to the store, but still do this. The fish store should give you some extra bags if you tell them you will be bringing in coral frags the next time you come in.

[Cozmo4]

It's just business. It's quite possible that a large birdsnest and frog has no value to a given store. They may have enough stock of those relative to their sales and a good business manages their inventory to their sales volume to avoid slow moving inventory and write downs. For full disclosure, I run a major trade-in/used product program for a national retailer.

[epicenter]

I wish we had great fish stores around here like a lot of you. I bought a $50.00 heater & within 30 days it failed so I returned it & the "owner" of the store said he could offer me 50% store credit $25.00 & that was the best he could do because he already had 3 others like it returned & could not take that big of a hit. So I really don't think it is supply & demand, capitalism, or profit & loss strategy. I purely believe in my case it is greed. I have owned & operated a business for 18 years now & know how to read a spread sheet. Any how I do realize LFS are great for the hobby. Unfortunately I am forced to drive 5 hours to get where the true passion dwells & prevails.

[John Zillmer]

I bought a $50.00 heater & within 30 days it failed so I returned it & the "owner" of the store said he could offer me 50% store credit $25.00 & that was the best he could do because he already had 3 others like it returned & could not take that big of a hit. So I really don't think it is supply & demand, capitalism, or profit & loss strategy. I purely believe in my case it is greed.

I think that after 30 days, any failure of hard goods is a manufacturer's warranty issue. Getting full value back from the retailer (even if partially in store credit) is really something you ought to be appreciative of.

[fishguy86]

that heater would be covered by the manufactor .. call them direct and i'm sure they will give you a new heater you will might need to mail them the broken heater ,, the retailer should be able to return the heater to the dist, for a full refund ,,i would report that problem to the manufactor as well .. sounds like you need some beter stores close by ... good luck there ,, what brand heater was it?

[John Zillmer]

the retailer should be able to return the heater to the dist, for a full refund

No, unfortunately some (many?) manufacturers will not handle warranty issues through retailers. (Edit: and the distributor is in no better position to take faulty returns, since they are bound by the manufacturer's policies/practices, too.) Some will not even handle issues regarding faulty products sold in a faulty state through retailers (Coralife comes to mind as a major company that operates this way). These manufacturers handle such issues directly.

[fishguy86]

man i never have those issues .., in 20 years of returning products .. still wonder what brand .. I guess my dist. kicks but /I use Royal Pet...all of the manufactures that do require going thru them that i use take care of the problem very quickly /..I guess its all who you know and what products you carry ..

[epicenter]

that heater would be covered by the manufactor .. call them direct and i'm sure they will give you a new heater you will might need to mail them the broken heater ,, the retailer should be able to return the heater to the dist, for a full refund ,,i would report that problem to the manufactor as well .. sounds like you need some beter stores close by ... good luck there ,, what brand heater was it?

I honestly cant remember what brand it was. The heater was 500 watts & did not make it 30 days. When I took it back I waited 3 months for a replacement & then was told that the distributor droped the line due to defects leaving me hanging. Here is the bottom line, I spend roughtly $1,000.00 a month on this addition. Half or more of that thousand was spent in the same store that stuck me with a bad heater. Can any body guess how much a month I spend in this store now? So for all those out there that think the customer should take a hit when products go bad should think again. I in no way am unreasonable, remember I own a business too. I have had products go bad & I take care of the problem then & there no matter what. It's called good business. Maybe 1 reason we are still here yet many others are not.

[chadfarmer]

i have a good relationship with my local fish store and they give me 50% of the price they sell it for. but they are always asking me to bring corals in

50% store credit and 40% cash

i never do the cash because i can always get something there

[teesquare]

And I think that is a far more "normal" scenario if you are keeping nice corals that are in high demand. And - if the store is doing a good business in this economy.
But those are just 2 of the highly variable factors that add in to how much you can get at the LFS for your stuff.
T

[Mrbeachbum2]

it is hard for me to belive that a base ball size coral has no value.

I agree & that was a basketball sized colony of Birdsnest I was told was worthless because no body wanted BN any longer. & here I see somebody is selling zania. WOW I wish we had a few stores willing to pay 25% market value for frags. No joke last week I took a Marshall Island rock the size of a dinner plate covered with Palythoas (they were mostly brown) some green to the LFS & recieved $3.50 off a choco. chip to feed the shrimp. I will never give another frag to a LFS & most of my purchases are now online.

What online vendor do you use?

[fishguy86]

man i would refer that store owner to this forum .. might help wake him or her up.. if i sold you that heater i would give you a full refund and take it up with my dist ,, how ever i rarely pick up product lines that are not proven so i havent had that issue..

[epicenter]

What online vendor do you use?

Totally exotic corals, Soutas, Juicy corals, donavons reef, Dr. Fosters
Hello llights, Marine depot, bulk reef supply.

[jimzin15754]

Unfortunately I've found with most retailers, everything they have is made of gold, everything you have is made of crap. Untill they own it, then it magically turns to gold! GO FIGURE!!!

[John Zillmer]

man i would refer that store owner to this forum .. might help wake him or her up.. if i sold you that heater i would give you a full refund and take it up with my dist ,, how ever i rarely pick up product lines that are not proven so i havent had that issue..

For better or worse, the reef hobby advances quickly enough that an LFS that always waits until products are proven is an LFS that is about a year behind the times and suffers in the eyes of hobbyists for that reason. Plus, respected manufacturers sometimes have certain products that are way below the quality standard of their line taken as a whole (Hydor heaters, AquaMedic temp controllers are two notorious examples), so simply picking up only respected product lines is not enough of a solution to satisfy people who have a fairly common problem (simple premature failure, which heaters generally are famous for) with one heater.

I think that much of the badmouthing of LFSs and hyping of online vendors regarding return policies is out of line here, mostly because if a manufacturer has a certain return/warranty policy, then any vendor (whether online or brick-and-mortar) is bound to those policies. For example, on Marine Depot's site (http://www.marinedepot.com/help_md_warranty_information.html) they explicitly claim that "Several of our major manufacturers' policies require that you contact them directly for assistance regarding their products. Furthermore, some of our major manufacturers have a staff trained specifically to service their product line. These manufacturers will support, repair, return or replace them in accordance with their own policies." They then list 21 major manufacturers who this applies to. Of course, haven't researched every online vendor on this matter, but Marine Depot was mentioned by name in this thread as an alternative to LFSs.

If you dislike LFSs because they have high overhead and have to charge more than companies working out of a steel shed in a location with low property values, or because most LFS employees don't know every single thing about every subcategory of the hobby, or because they yawn when you try to tell them how much better your tank is than every other one ever set up, well, that's up to you:) But disliking them for not replacing a product that the manufacturer would happily replace under warranty, well, that's just unreasonable bashing.

[Rich976usaf]

craigslist !!!

[mbreptiles]

I wish we had great fish stores around here like a lot of you. I bought a $50.00 heater & within 30 days it failed so I returned it & the "owner" of the store said he could offer me 50% store credit $25.00 & that was the best he could do because he already had 3 others like it returned & could not take that big of a hit. So I really don't think it is supply & demand, capitalism, or profit & loss strategy. I purely believe in my case it is greed. I have owned & operated a business for 18 years now & know how to read a spread sheet. Any how I do realize LFS are great for the hobby. Unfortunately I am forced to drive 5 hours to get where the true passion dwells & prevails.

Give me some time and I hope our 1000 sq ft saltwater section will be a good addition to the hobby. We have done well with establishing a once non existant reptile community in Southern Oregon, and plan to help out with establishing a good LFS in Southern Oregon. I would rather support the people buying, trading, and coming into our shop several times a month than have someone supply all of our stock from FL or Southern CA. I understand that we will not be able to do so with all the live stock, however what we can I would rather pick up from customers... If any of you know some good fish suppliers in the area, I would love some contacts. We've been putting in alot of 16+ hour days to get the new shop up and running, and expanding another 2500 sq ft now. We have decided to take on creating a nice saltwater section. It is coming along, and hopefully fully up and running in the near future. Any suggestions, ideas, or input is always appreciated

Matt Bruner
www.mbreptiles.com
Grants Pass, OR

[mbreptiles]

Unfortunately I've found with most retailers, everything they have is made of gold, everything you have is made of crap. Untill they own it, then it magically turns to gold! GO FIGURE!!!

Not sticking up for any of the other stores, but I do know that running a good shop quickly generates a huge overhead of 20K or more a month. This does not include live stock, products, dry goods, supplies for display animals, and a few other things. If a store takes care of you as a customer and sells nice stuff at a reasonable price, just remember to support them, cause if something fails or you run into a problem and need something asap, you can usually grab what you need from your local store (speaking from experience in the reptile hobby). It also might cost you more to get it from your LFS, but you get to have it like RIGHT NOW, which is always a plus. I'll admit that I am one of those "I want it now people"... Plus you get to actually see what you are purchasing, although we do our fair share of net sales as well. Just my personal opinion...


Matt

[sam11909]

I get over 50% from my LFS. GREAT store!

[andrewk529]

you will receive 1/2-1/3 of the resale value depending on the store in my area.

[N-dog]

i'm looking at selling to my lfs too what happened?

[John Zillmer]

Give me some time and I hope our 1000 sq ft saltwater section will be a good addition to the hobby. We have done well with establishing a once non existant reptile community in Southern Oregon, and plan to help out with establishing a good LFS in Southern Oregon. I would rather support the people buying, trading, and coming into our shop several times a month than have someone supply all of our stock from FL or Southern CA. I understand that we will not be able to do so with all the live stock, however what we can I would rather pick up from customers... If any of you know some good fish suppliers in the area, I would love some contacts. We've been putting in alot of 16+ hour days to get the new shop up and running, and expanding another 2500 sq ft now. We have decided to take on creating a nice saltwater section. It is coming along, and hopefully fully up and running in the near future. Any suggestions, ideas, or input is always appreciated

Matt Bruner
www.mbreptiles.com
Grants Pass, OR

Just checked out your website, Matt -- nice! Fantastic selection of herps, and your prices are really fair. Interestingly from the point of view of this thread, your store (and other larger reptile stores) blurs the line between local shop and online vendor.

I guess I knew, but never really thought about, the supply-source distinctions between LFSs, online aquatic livestock vendors, and reptile shops -- online aquatic vendors buy only from wholesalers/collectors and ship out product at retail; LFSs buy either wholesale or from local hobbyists and sell the product only locally at retail; but reptile shops and even reptile wholesalers buy from wholesalers, national breeders, and local breeders, and then sell the product either at local retail, national retail, or even back into the wholesale market (reptile wholesalers buy animals from local small-scale breeders, for those of you who didn't know this).

[potterjon]

Wow so many opinions and so many variations from region to region! I agree with a lot of what was just said here. I tend to agree that LFS do not support their local hobbyists enough. The same person that spends thousands to set up a tank in that store, knowingly has gone out of their way to spend it locally. Everything can be gotten online cheaper. Then that person comes back later and gets pennies for the same coral that they spent $80/frag on. I am ashamed at some of the percentages that have been cited on here for trade in for coral and livestock. When an lfs trades store credit at retail price for the wholesale value of an item that was just traded in. They have just made money on both ends. If it were me, I would trade livestock for livestock and dry goods for dry goods. Remember, when the local brings in frags they have not been shipped or stressed nearly as much. It should be a generally healthier coral and known to be pest free. Also, the lfs has not done any work, coughed up any money, spent any time on the phone, or incurred any shipping costs, picked it up at the airport,etc. Locals can literally stock an lfs inventory for free on consignment all during a nice conversation. That being said, agreeing that we all need to be flexible in this economy, lfs and locals should learn to work better with each other.
The wholesale cost that stores get is not even close to what big online vendors get. I think it is poor practice by wholesalers to give online vendors such a big price break. They are not looking out for the little man that supports them. What are they going to do when their big online retailer stops carrying their product? Vendors do not back up their products. In this day and age, you can't get a straight answer out of a vendor. I have heard three different answers about one product from a company while working at an lfs.
On the same note, not all stores are struggling because of the economy. Some are just poorly managed and have made bad business decisions. I am not down on lfs at all. I just think there is a huge disconnect between them and their customers. I have always felt that without an lfs, hobbyists would be sorry. But lately,I see it differently. Without the hobbyists, the lfs wouldn't exist at all. It always starts with their customers. Everything starts with the customer. THEY are worth their weight in gold. Take care of your people and they will take care of you.
just my 2 cents.

[John Zillmer]

Remember, when the local brings in frags they have not been shipped or stressed nearly as much. It should be a generally healthier coral and known to be pest free.

If only this were always true. You'd be surprised at how many people leave livestock in a bucket in the trunk of their car in winter while they shop at the mall, have lunch and then go out for coffee before stopping at the LFS to trade in. And fish with ick, battered fins, and skinny as can be...zoas with nudis, acros with red bugs, receding open brains -- fact is, some people trade stuff in that is going downhill fast so that they can get something out of it before it dies. The yellow tang in my tank now was such a trade in -- customer comes in with a maroon clown (with ick) and the tang that was housed with it: white as a ghost, HLLE, starving, totally sunken stomach and head, and no fins at all except for pectorals. I almost cried. And the guy asks me how much credit the fish were worth. Other than HLLE scarring and a small divot out of the dorsal fin, the fish is great now:)


The wholesale cost that stores get is not even close to what big online vendors get.


This is a good point. The industry is somewhat stacked against LFSs. This isn't the fault of hobbyists, of course, but it should make us a bit more sympathetic as to LFS prices.

[cindre2000]

I have to say that I have only 2 customers that I would hands down take any coral frag they had in trade; and one of those is me. Most of the people locally, just seem to be out to cut as good as a deal as possible; for themselves. They come in and try and wheedle a lower price, when we are already the one of the lowest B&M price around. I really just want to tell them to go to the local fish only store if they want a deal. There they can spend 50% to 200% more on the same fish/coral.

When I look at trades, I am looking for healthy coral, that is already mounted and somewhat encrusted. I also don't need 500 xenia or kenya tree; but I will happily take a reasonable number of multiples at a slight discount. I will even keep you in mind when I sell out of it. Finally, size does matter; to the customer. You try to sell a single branch of 'plain' jane birdsnest or elkhorn monti to the average fish store customer.

[brbarkey]

I get store credit only for 1/3 of the value that they would sell it in their store.

[potterjon]

I worked at our LFS for the past year so I think I have pretty good grasp of the problem at hand.
Cindre2000, I understand where you are coming from. My point is just that there seems to be a disconnect between the lfs and the local hobbyist sometimes. Sometimes it seems the lfs focuses on new customers and not their existing ones that have already made all of the bulk purchases.
I don't mean to say that anyone can just walk in with a bag of whatever and expect to get paid, but if a good rapport has been developed then locals can supply the stores with a lot of steady constant inventory.
It sounds like our lfs is doing fairly well on the trade in part. One of them gives %50 percent of retail value in store credit. I think that is pretty fair considering they are trading a percentage of retail value for something they have paid wholesale prices for.