Copper

[RBU1]

Can someone please explain the different types of copper to me please?

Is there only 2 types?

Free and chelated????

What type is cupramine? How about Seacure? I am so confused right now...

I have been using Cupramine and always have a hard time telling those blue colors apart on the test kits. So I purchased a Hanna colorimeter like this..
http://www.dtpetsupplies.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=7702

I called Seachem prior to ordering it to make sure I was getting the proper reagents they told me HR/Free kit is what I needed so thats what I ordered.

OK so today I take a gallon of saltwater and asked Seachem how much cupramine I should add to get me to .25 and I was told 2 drops. So I added 2 drops and tested with the colorimeter. I read .42 on the first test and .39 on the second test.......Why am I reading higher then what Seachem is telling me I should read????

[bertoni]

Chelation is a process that combines a metal ion with an organic ion. The combination can be more stable than a straight metal salt like copper sulfate, and perhaps more bioavailable.

Copper also occurs in at least two valences in water, Cu⁺ and Cu⁺⁺. Cu⁺ is very toxic, so we're trying to avoid that form.

Given the likely accuracy of the dropper, those numbers seem fairly reasonable to me. How accurate is the colorimeter guaranteed to be? +- 0.02 or 4% of the reading is what the web page says. I might verify that at the Hanna web site.

[RBU1]

Thanks for the reply. I got this darn meter to hopefully be accurate in my copper dosing. Here is what the accuracy say's (Accuracy - ±0.02 mg/L ±4% of reading) I would think if I was supposed to be at .25 the meter would have been closer.....

What is the difference between total and free copper?

There are 2 different meters a high range and a low range. I got the high range it says it tests between 0 and 5.0 I thought that range more than covers my cupramine....

The part I don't understand is I mixed up a gallon of Seacure copper. This is a regular type of copper and I read .28 and I should have read .15

I will call hanna tomorrow because I am really confused.....

[bertoni]

I'd have to read the test description to be sure, and Randy or Boomer might be able to help more, but free copper is likely the ionic form, unchelated, and total would include every copper atom in the sample.

I am sure that Cupramine is chelated, and I thought SeaChem sold a kit that worked well with it. I couldn't find anything on the SeaCure, but if it's not chelated, I'd switch to Cupramine.

[RBU1]

I have been and will continue to use cupramine. I just had that seacure laying around and I wanted to see what the meter would read for that stuff. As far as I know Cupramine is not chelated it works just like a free copper thats why Seachem told me to get the free high range reagent. I just don't understand all these different terms in copper...

I just want to make sure I am accurate in my testing. I don't want to kill fish in QT because I had the copper level to high.

Thanks for responding and I will call Hanna tomorrow.

[RBU1]

Found this...

SeaCure Copper Treatment is a non-chelated ionic copper treatment that is effective against
Amyloodinium and Cryptocaryon. SeaCure can be monitored with the Instant Ocean Copper
Test Kit to ensure a safe and effective treatment. Add one drop per gallon to produce an ionic
copper level of 0.15mg/L (ppm). Available in 2oz and 8oz sizes.

And this,,,,

Cupramine™ is a truly better copper formulation that safely
eradicates ectoparasites of both freshwater and marine fish. It is
buffered and amine-complexed and has all the advantages of both
copper sulfate and chelated copper, but none of the disadvantages.
Just like copper sulfate, it is fully charged (ionic) and effective at low
concentrations. Just like chelates, it is nontoxic and is not precipitated
in the filter bed.

I STILL HAVE NO IDEA WHAT ALL THAT MEANS...............

[bertoni]

The SeaCure is likely something resembling copper sulfate, or perhaps some copper citrate. I read the Cupramine documentation more carefully, and it seems to be an organic compound that isn't a chelate (no ring), but contain ionic copper that I'd guess stays attached to the organic portion in water. I'm guessing that the organic portion is soluble in water on its own, so that disassociation need not happen to get Cupramine into solution.

You need help from a better chemist than me. :) I'd think that the SeaCure would show up on your colorimeter with no problems, but I'm not sure about the Cupramine. Are there any specifics of the chemistry of the test anywhere online?

[RBU1]

The SeaCure is likely something resembling copper sulfate, or perhaps some copper citrate. I read the Cupramine documentation more carefully, and it seems to be an organic compound that isn't a chelate (no ring), but contain ionic copper that I'd guess stays attached to the organic portion in water. I'm guessing that the organic portion is soluble in water on its own, so that disassociation need not happen to get Cupramine into solution.

You need help from a better chemist than me. :) I'd think that the SeaCure would show up on your colorimeter with no problems, but I'm not sure about the Cupramine. Are there any specifics of the chemistry of the test anywhere online?


Thats why I did the test with the Seacure I also thought the meter would accurately test that. But like I said I did one drip in a gallon of water and according to the Seacure info it should be .15 When I tested I got .28 that is almost double what it should have read. I am really confused........I will call hanna today. I was also thinking that maybe the Seacure would not test right with what I have because I thought that would be considered low range......Like I said I am really confused....

[billsreef]

Did you test a blank? i.e. just a sample of your SW without adding the copper. Could be a background copper level that is adding to your readings.

[RBU1]

Did you test a blank? i.e. just a sample of your SW without adding the copper. Could be a background copper level that is adding to your readings.

I did test my tank water no copper and got .07

[RBU1]

I got a fairly lengthy explanation from the place I got the meter. To difficult for me to try and explain. But long story short there is a level of accuracy with the meter. Not sure yet if the meter I got will be accurate enough for what I want to test. The place I got the meter is sending me out a pipette so I can accurately add the cupramine to a gallon of water. That way we know I added an exact amount versus drops.