Extra Credit

[clownfreak]

Hello all,

First of all I am completely new to diving, although I know a little of some of the more basic stuff. I have no training or certifications whatsoever. That said i will hopefully be completing my open water certification soon. Hopefully I will take an advanced open water in the near future also, but that might have to wait for a while.

I was wondering if anyone knew of any information I can pick up before I go to the class. I've been reading around and have seen people talking about how lax the classes have gotten. I do not wish to be an unprepared diver, and therefor am attempting to seek out some extra information. One of the things I have seen mentioned are the "dive charts" and how they aren't being taught, but are being replaced with computers. Does anyone know of a "how-to" I can read, then maybe pull some charts to practice on? I am looking to pick up any information I can to be as well prepared as possible.

Thanks!

[billsreef]

One of the best things to do is go around to the different dive shops in your area and talk them. Get an idea of how they teach, ask a few questions, find out if they still teach the tables (what your calling charts), etc. Get a feel for them and pick the one you feel most comfortable with. It's also a good idea to talk to area divers and get their opinions on the local shops and instructors. Once you sign up for a class, they will give the course book, give it a read, and feel free to ask us any questions that come up. With gear, just start out with the "personal" gear, mask, snorkel, booties and fins. Wait till you've got some dives under the belt so that you have an idea of what sort of diving you'll be doing and what sort of equipment you'll like.

[clownfreak]

Thanks, I am planning on going to one shop tomorrow and check things out.

[SeaJayInSC]

Welcome!

You may now check your wallet at the door - you won't be seeing it again for a very long time. :)

Just kidding, of course. :)

Some people fall in love with the "sport." Some just decide to do it occasionally, when the water's clear and warm and they're on vacation. Others dive at every opportunity. Some love the open sea and it's life, some love the insides of caves, some dive with a hammer and hacksaw, and some just enjoy a relaxing tropical dive on vacation. What you do with it and how far you go with it is totally up to you.

I encourage you to adopt an "always learning" attitude... The best divers I know consder themselves permanent students, and are always looking to learn more, regardless of their current level of expertise. The most knowlegable divers I know consider themselves beginners even after diving for decades. :)

Just remember to use your ears and eyes and mouth in the proportions that you were given, and you'll enjoy the heck out of it and become a virtual expert in no time. :)

...And remember, diving is about DIVING, not about GEAR. If it was about GEAR, they'd call it GEAR and not DIVING. :)

Recommended music: http://www.DeepSouthDivers.org/old/homesongs.html

Recommended reading: Doing it Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving by Jarrod Jablonski

Recommended watching: Finding Nemo, The Abyss, Leviathan, Sphere, IMAX Deep Sea, IMAX Ocean Oasis, Deep Blue Sea, Into the Blue (No drooling on the TV screen for Jessica Alba, please - she's MINE - as is the killer backplate and wing and Gavin scooter that her boyfriend uses in the movie) :)

Recommended dive sites: Whatever your local site is, any Caribbean destination, any Florida destination, especially the Keys and the mid-Florida springs

Dos: Rent your gear as long as you can stand it, be a volunteer diver for your local aquarium, join a dive club, establish a relationship with a good local dive shop that you trust with your life, try a backplate and wing, ask about the Rule of 120.

Don'ts: Hold your breath, swim or scull with your hands, "flake out" on your buddy when he wants to go diving, put up with those who "flake out" on you, become a Divemaster with less than 100 dives, view diving as a competition, blow $$ on gear without trying it out first.

Familiarize yourself with eBay's scuba section. Do not pressure your significant other to dive with you - if they want to, they will.

Lose yourself in scuba daydreams at every opportunity. :)

[clownfreak]

Thanks Seajay, it really helps. I was flipping through your music and came upon The Edmund Fitzgerald. Thats a wreck I'll need to dive when the time comes (its only 2 or so hours away :D ). And from what I've heard I need to stay away from you because you'll get me hooked and make me buy quality equipment that will last me forever :lolspin:
Thanks so much and I love your website

[clownfreak]

Also, I went to the closest dive shop in my area to ask more about their OW classes. The class is teaching yourself from the PADI handbook, then they go over what will be on the tests, do the in pool dives with you, and finally the open water dives (or referral). I will be checking out the next dive shop tomorrow as I definitetly am not a big fan of that, I want someone to drill all the information and more into my head! The guy was nice and helpful, but I'd rather learn more in a classroom, but we'll see how this next shop turns out. :]

[SeaJayInSC]

Thanks, clownfreak! :)

Sounds like you've been doing some reading... :)

The 'Fitz is too deep for practical scuba diving (not impossible, but logistically speaking, too far out of scuba's normal limits) and is a protected site... Which I was informed of recently when I questioned the possibility of diving the wreck. Asking the local dive shops about diving it will likely get snickers and chuckles. :) But it's wonderful to think about anyway, and the song's a great song - it always seems to send me into a dreamy, quiet "wreck diving" mood.

Two hours away... Where's that? Must be positively Arctic there at the moment...

[SeaJayInSC]

Hey, anyone have Octopus' Garden by the Beatles on mp3? I just realized that I don't have that song on my scuba music list...

[SeaJayInSC]

Man, I almost forgot to recommend the movie The Little Mermaid! Man, I hope I never outgrow this stuff... :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgA2xo0HYrE&feature=related

[greenmonkey51]

I have Octopus Garden on mp3. Shoot me a pm with your email and I'll try to send it.

[clownfreak]

Ah ok, thanks seajay. It's just a little snowy here probably got about 4in of snow yesterday, perfect diving weather for a noobie like me :) . I'll have to rethink the 'Fitz for a while, we'll see in years to come, I did see a couple of youtube videos from people who did dive the wreck, but they were probably commercial people just to find out more about what happened to it.

[ackee]

Spend as much time in the water as possible, scuba or not. It should feel as natural as being on land. With scuba, especially in the beginning, move slowly. Pay
close attention to where you are, what you are doing. Learn to drift rather than power through. Don't dive alone, but learn to be self-contained. Mindset and calm confidence are vital elements.

[SeaJayInSC]

There's only two dives that I know of that have been done on the 'Fitz... One, a dive (actually, a series of dives) by a small manned observation submarine named Clelia, I believe run by Woods Hole Oceanographic and NOAA. Video footage taken from the dives can be seen on YouTube - an example is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K3J3vRGcwo .

Interestingly, Clelia, now permanently dry and mounted for display to the public, sits at the Georgia Aquarium... Right in front of where tgreene and the rest of my crew did all of our work there underwater at the Beluga Whale tank. It was very odd hovering in front of the glass at the Aquarium, looking out and seeing a submarine in the dry. :)

The videos you speak of were probably those taken from this submarine.

The second series of dives that I know of were as an initial run of the widely-publicized Newtsuit, a sort of humanoid submarine designed to allow a single operator to remain at sea level pressure inside the suit while allowing human-like dexterity at depths of up to 1,000 feet. During these dives, the bell of the Edmund Fitzgerald was cut loose and retrieved as a memorial to the crew that lost their lives onboard the doomed freighter. A video about this dive can be seen at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QG9Qe-o4gw , and is a fascinating watch.

For what it's worth, the 'Fitz is in 530 feet of freshwater - more than 100 feet deeper than I've been, but well within the limits of what's been done on scuba. Working at those depths - that is, getting bottom time long enough to remove the bell from the deck of the boat - would require many hours of decompression... Although frankly, the guy in the video who states that it would require "10 days of decompression" is overstating it grossly (probably emphasizing the advantage of the Newtsuit). Perhaps what he meant was that a plan to remove the bell using conventional commercial divers included a 10-day stay, which would allow them to remove the bell, explore the rest of the wreck, AND decompress. I have never heard of a decompression obligation of 240 hours.

What I know about the Newtsuit dives on the 'Fitz isn't good... While the above video clearly shows a seasoned, successful and drama-free operation, the reality of this trial run for the Newtsuit was anything but. From what I've seen, there were several times during the operation where total catastrophe was narrowly missed, including a point where the bell was finally cut free and very nearly crushed the suit, which would have killed the pilot instantly. In all fairness, the Newtsuit successfully accomplished it's mission without catastrophe it's very first time out... And that should be recognized, for it's an unusual thing for a prototype to function flawlessly... But watching the video gives an impression that I am not sure is exactly accurate.

A very interesting slide show about the 'Fitz is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJhtrVZ0uVk . Amazing photos. :)

All of this said, if you live near the Great Lakes, you're near some incredible wreck diving, even if the 'Fitz isn't on your agenda. In fact, some say it's the best wreck diving in the world. :)

[tgreene]

All of this said, if you live near the Great Lakes, you're near some incredible wreck diving, even if the 'Fitz isn't on your agenda. In fact, some say it's the best wreck diving in the world. :)
I have every intention of some day diving off the point of Coper Harbor, because it's crystal clear waters up there, and it's full of old wrecks!

[clownfreak]

haha the 'Fritz is wayyy out of my league for a long time to come :]
But living in Michigan gives me a chance to do alot of swimming/diving. I'm about an hour away from Lake Michigan (I'm in Grand Rapids), and there are alot of small local lakes under half an hour away not to mention the 20' deep pond in my backyard :]

[tgreene]

haha the 'Fritz is wayyy out of my league

If you think the Fritz it bad, then I suspect that the FITZ will blow your mind!!! :D

[SeaJayInSC]

Lol... I suppose it's a good attitude to understand that the 'Fitz is a long way off. :) Still, it's not impossible - someday. If you can dream it, you can do it. :)

Maybe you should focus on a more quickly attainable goal - like getting your first C-card. :)

Then focus on your second. And so on. Then hit 100 dives, then 100 hours underwater. :)

You can do it. Keep thinking about it, and you will - whether it's getting your first C-card or diving the 'Fitz. :)

I believe in dreams, and I believe in you.

[clownfreak]

uh oh, should I be worried? :hammer:

[clownfreak]

Thanks Seajay, I'm just getting lost in those daydreams again :]
I'm hoping to possible get my AOW before I do too much diving also, but will probably wait until summer for that.

[SeaJayInSC]

Do Open Water, Advanced Open Water and Rescue as chapters one, two and three of your basic scuba certification... Maybe ten or twenty dives apart.

Then do a lot of diving and see what interests you. :)

[clownfreak]

I will, and if I could I'd like to find a local NAUI program over PADI because from what I've heard odds are it'd be a better course for me because they supposedly teach more information (due to that whole non-profit thingy). But I will go with the shop I'm most comfortable with.

[SeaJayInSC]

Honestly, I don't think it matters - just get in the water, keep an open mind, and remember that learning doesn't stop or start with the agency - in 2010, there's more info to be had online than anywhere else... Hit Google, start learning, and get in the water. The C-card is only a requirement.

Kinda like 9th grade English class (assuming your native tongue is English) - sure, you had to take it, and you had to pass it... But is that where you really learned the English language?

Same applies to diving - do a lot of it, and learn a lot about it from as many sources as possible.

The C-cards are only required learning. They have little to do with diving itself. :)

If you're anything like many of us, you'll end up finding training with ALL of the agencies eventually anyway.

...And even then, REAL learning will come from experience and diving with people who have done it more than you have. :)

[clownfreak]

I have to agree, most of my learning will probably come from actual diving. I'm just trying to find the best class to start with (as I'm sure everyone has done). You make a very good point.

[SeaJayInSC]

Okay, so you're waaaaaay up North... I'd say find the closest dive shop with an indoor pool for training. Sign up and do it - like, this weekend. :)

Whichever agency they're teaching, that's the right one for you. :)

If you change your mind later and decide that you should have trained under a different agency, then you can switch and train with that one instead.

The important thing is to get in the water now and make it happen.

[clownfreak]

As much as I'd love to start this weekend, exams start next week so these next two weekends will be full of studying... darn

[tgreene]

Clownfreak -- I have learned far more online from SeaJay than I have in any of my classes... Then I was provided an opportunity to dive with him multiple times over a total of 12 days. Those dives reinforced everything that he had been telling me here on RC for several months prior, AND IT ALL MADE PERFECT SENSE ONCE I SAW HIM DIVE.

Since our last dives together, I have completely switched gears in regards to my eqiupment choices and perception of diving logic and education, because he not only offered to show me a better solution, he physically put a BP/W on me and we went diving!

I have spent the past month selling all of my original recreational gear, and replacing it with gear that is more appropriately designed for technical & caving diving. Why..? Because from the first moment I began my OW Cert, I had a goal of becoming a CAVE DIVER, DEEP DIVER and WRECK DIVER. These all seemed like pretty lofty goals to many, and did to me until I met the right people (SeaJay, the EE Guys, CERich, etc.), but as of now it's actually far closer than I could have ever imagined... Sure, I have several more classes that I need to take, which will have me traveling to Georgia & Florida multiple times to take them, but this is what is required to meet the goals which I have placed for myself.

In regards to dreams, diving has never actually been one of mine... My last real "dream" was to stand on top of Devils Tower, and that dream was fulfilled in 2004 after a grueling day of climbing one of the more difficult routes to the summit! That was a dream that I had ever since I first watched "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" as a child. I guess the closest thing to a "dream" for me at this point, would have to be waking up in bed w/ Sanrda Bullock and having her inform me that she wants to buy me a rebreather as a gift, because I'm soooo good in the sack! :D

Due to accidents and illnesses I had to give up climbing in 2006, but took up diving last spring (received OW Cert at end of March) and have logged 92 dives since. Since last March, I've made the time to get AOW, NITROX, NIGHT SPECIALTY, EFR/CPR, EQUIPMENT SPECIALTY, DPV SPECIALTY, and am 2 dives from finishing DEEP SPECIALTY. I still want/need CAVERN SPECIALTY and RESCUE DIVER before I head off to Florida for a GUE FUNDIES class. I also want to be comfortable diving in doubles before I take Fundies, and now that my "new singles rig is complete, I'm working on building up a doubles rig as well.

The only negative impact that SeaJay will ever have on your diving, will be with your bank account, though he will most assuredly steer you in the right direction to keep you from wasting money on "fluff" that can better be spent elsewhere. :)

-Tim

[clownfreak]

I do believe you are right... I did see your beware of Seajay post which just made me laugh. Thats probably the biggest reason I'm here is to pick up knowledge from all of you and walk into class as informed as I can be. :)
And good luck with Sandra :rollface:

[SeaJayInSC]

As much as I'd love to start this weekend, exams start next week so these next two weekends will be full of studying... darn


Okay, make it three weeks then. :) No excuses. :)

[SeaJayInSC]

I guess the closest thing to a "dream" for me at this point, would have to be waking up in bed w/ Sanrda Bullock and having her inform me that she wants to buy me a rebreather as a gift, because I'm soooo good in the sack!

Oooo... That is a good dream! :D

Now, set a date for this to happen. :)

The only negative impact that SeaJay will ever have on your diving, will be with your bank account...

I think you made more on the GA Aquarium stuff than you spent on the BP/W, didn't you? Then you got a new suit... Of course, then you went and spent some money on a new very nice reg set...

I dunno, Tim... Given that you made money on your old BC, I think you're doing pretty doggone well! :) $600 for a brand new, fully DIR singles reg set? That's pretty hot... :)

I'm flattered about the rest of your comments - I didnt mean to do the "mentor" thing... I just wanted to dive with you and enjoy it - and show you some of this cool stuff that someone once showed me... :)

[tgreene]

I think you made more on the GA Aquarium stuff than you spent on the BP/W, didn't you? Then you got a new suit... Of course, then you went and spent some money on a new very nice reg set...

I dunno, Tim... Given that you made money on your old BC, I think you're doing pretty doggone well! :) $600 for a brand new, fully DIR singles reg set? That's pretty hot... :)

I'm flattered about the rest of your comments - I didnt mean to do the "mentor" thing... I just wanted to dive with you and enjoy it - and show you some of this cool stuff that someone once showed me... :)

Actually I think that after working for you at GA and then selling my Cressi BC and Regs to apply towards the new Halcyon & HOG/Miflex gear, I'm probably right about dead even, so it's all good. Actually, the skills that I learned from you at GA put the + side way over the - side, so it's way better than good!!! :cool:

You do realize that I'm planning to show up on your doorstep with a doubles rig that will need to be assembled and WET TESTED, don't you..? :D

-Tim

[clownfreak]

Haha I'll just have to find a good place to make some moola with scuba :)

[SeaJayInSC]

That's awesome, Tim... You know, there's not many people that can say that scuba their scuba habit hasn't been a financial drain. :)

Wet testing... Sounds great! That new 5 mil you got should be good here locally starting around March or April. Right now, it's wickedly cold outside - too much for ANY wet diving Yikes!

[tgreene]

SeaJay, You and Kym should head this direction for a long weekend so we can all dive 'BonneTerre Mine' together... It's only 3 hours north of us!

http://www.2dive.com/btm.htm

I've yet to have the pleasure of diving dry, so until I have a spare 2k to spend on a dry suit, I'll have to pretend to remain content... I've dove my Henderson 5mil w/ hooded vest to 47*, and it wasn't too God awefully horrible or anything.

BTW: Bonne Terre is a balmy 58* year round! :D

-Tim

[SeaJayInSC]

58's not too bad... Doable in a 5 mil, so long as you've got a good hood and gloves - and don't stay submerged for more than an hour or two.

I've never dived the mine... That's something I'd like to do. It looks like a very cool dive!

[WarmWaterWuss]

You're getting some great advice here. The only thing I can add is to check out DAN - Divers Alert Network and read their publication 'Alert Diver'. Also think about getting DAN or someother diver's insurance to cover a chamber ride, hopefully you will never need it, but it is good to have.

[clownfreak]

Thanks warmwater I'll check it out

[tgreene]

Another huge bonus of DAN Insurance is that if anything happens while you're out of the country, you are covered up to and including a chartered flight if necessary... The travel insurance "cancellation" aspect is also pretty huge these days.

-Tim