what pump will not overheat when running dry?

[watchndsky]

im looking for a pump to replace a rio 2500 that will not run dry in case the sump level drops low

reason being - im hopelessly anal and trying to mitigate the risk of floods - i hope to change the return section in sump im building to have the pump sit high and in case of disaster - very little water can be sent to display tank.

i know ill have to keep up to compensate for evap or build an ato - im ok with that.

does anyone know of a comparable pump to replace with and where to buy? i had looked at the mag 1800 on fosters (expensive) and it seems they can be run externally or submerged - but after googling and getting no results thought quickest way would be to ask.

[davocean]

If you use an in sump pump, it's going to be a problem if it runs dry.
Placing return high to prevent overflow is kinda backwards, instead, your sump should be able to accomidate overflow in case of power failure, so most sumps are about 3/4 full.
I also recommend having last baffle be an under, to prevent return from running dry.
Mags are OK, oceanrunner another good budget option, eheim/tunze my favs but not cheap.

[r-balljunkie]

no pump can run dry, except for a mono flow type progressive cavity with a rubber stator pump. these pumps are not for consumer usage. you need to rethink your method/thought process.

a mag 18 is way overkill for what you are replacing. what is your tank/sump size etc? are you going thru an overflow box, or is your tanik drilled.

[watchndsky]

72gallon DT - 30g sump with overflow

not worried about about sump overflow ive got that covered with siphon break, room in sump etc - im worried about display tank overflowing in the event the overflow system
fails (have those pieces in place - overflow covered to prevent snails, etc)

just trying to take into account different worst case scenarios and mitigating the risks/damage of each. my biggest concern left now is somehow overflowing the display so my thought was to limit the amount of water that can be returned to the tank in event of a failure.

there are no pumps that can run dry at all? that would explain lack of results in google searches

ive done alot of reading of others experience and opinions - some say overflows are completely reliable using something similar to my setup - others say every overflow system is of the devil and should never be used. i dont generally take an alarmist approach but want to limit floods and especially fire hazards - none of my equipment is at risk from a sump overflowing (even have a ups paging me if it kicks on for the return pump) but i am at high risk level if the main tank overflows.

i know there are risks in even having a tank - but putting that argument aside - at this point im just trying to reduce any potential failures associated with running a sump/fuge. ive read (dont have direct experience because im new to salt) that the benefits are worth the trouble - but if i cant get the risks down to an acceptable level then id rather pursue making a hob fuge for nutrient export, a better skimmer or increased water changes.

not that im unique in my need for dry floors etc - just trying to develop a smarter system with the correct failsafes in place

[arredondojason]

an air pump is the only pump that can run dry. sorry i had to say it.

I like mag pumps I am running 2 mag 18's on my 240G tank as the return just drill some syphon holes in your return lines just under your water level and it will prevent all the water going to your sump when the power goes out.
1/4" holes are good.

[watchndsky]

an air pump is the only pump that can run dry. sorry i had to say it.

I like mag pumps I am running 2 mag 18's on my 240G tank as the return just drill some syphon holes in your return lines just under your water level and it will prevent all the water going to your sump when the power goes out.
1/4" holes are good.

thanks that was helpful - i didnt know that....makes sense in a way, but for some reason i was thinking there were some. of course till now my experience has been limited to powerheads, and pond pumps used to refill my freshtanks during water changes and draining my hot tub!

ive got the siphon breaks in place already.....short of keeping the water level in the main tank very low - what options exist to prevent overflowing the main tank?

[arredondojason]

My tank is RR so it gravity feeds the water to the sump so the only way water can overflow is to block the drain pipes.

[watchndsky]

wish mine was - i got the tank at a really good price - but isnt such a good deal if i tack on another 275 for a RR bowfront. (technically it would still be a great deal - but i also needed to get the tank back up as quickly as possible for existing livestock etc.)

[38bill]

I think it would depend on your definition of "running dry". Most pumps need water in the impeller to cool and lubricate it, like oil in a car engine, or the impeller will seize up. I'm guessing the pump will start sucking air and stop pushing water to the tank before going totally dry. I would also think any (non-direct drive type) pump that can be run in or out of water like an Eheim or Quiet One would not be a fire hazard unless allowed to run for such an extended amount of time that the sump and pump impeller actually totally drys up.

[r-balljunkie]

the chances are astronomical a drain pipe would fail. it would be gradual, and you would notice something was wrong early on. you probably have a 1" drain on your 72 BF. that would have to be totally obstructed. one way you can prevent an unlikely overflow is to baffle your sump, and have the water level low in the pump compartment, tie your ATO into this compartment.

c

[watchndsky]

I think it would depend on your definition of "running dry". Most pumps need water in the impeller to cool and lubricate it, like oil in a car engine, or the impeller will seize up. I'm guessing the pump will start sucking air and stop pushing water to the tank before going totally dry. I would also think any (non-direct drive type) pump that can be run in or out of water like an Eheim or Quiet One would not be a fire hazard unless allowed to run for such an extended amount of time that the sump and pump impeller actually totally drys up.

thats sort of what im trying to determine too - i mean the cost of a new pump is insignificant next to the power of the force - er i mean the cost to replace my house or valuables.

if it just blows the pump up, fine- thatd be better than flooding the display tank and the potential hazards associated with that. but if it the tears the pump up and it decides to short out go out in a ball of flame and take my entire basement quarters with it - well.....that would be worse.

[arredondojason]

the chances are astronomical a drain pipe would fail. it would be gradual, and you would notice something was wrong early on. you probably have a 1" drain on your 72 BF. that would have to be totally obstructed. one way you can prevent an unlikely overflow is to baffle your sump, and have the water level low in the pump compartment, tie your ATO into this compartment.

c

snails make this not so astronomical of a chance I have had it happen.lol.

[r-balljunkie]

snails make this not so astronomical of a chance I have had it happen.lol.

dont buy 1" snails.....bring a set of dial calipers to the store with you :spin1::spin1:


seiously, i dont have any snails close to 1" in diameter.

[arredondojason]

lol.

[davocean]

snails make this not so astronomical of a chance I have had it happen.lol.

Not to freak out OP, but I do know of someone who had a cluster of snails clog drain and flood, but this was a weird and rare case.
Now, I did have a weird deal myself floating a fish in a bag in my overflow(my OF is fairly big)
I went to check surf, came back, and my DT was at absolute max and even had a "cap" of water.
A couple more minutes and that cap would have broke and DT would have started to overflow.
Turned out fish bag got sucked into drain blocking it(fish was fine)
So don't do that sort of stupid thing like I did!
Some people I have seen do a dual drain to help avoid something like this.
But I agree, chances are extremely rare that anything will clog your drain like that.
Also, I do not rely on siphon break holes, they can and will clog over time.
Keep locklines high up for early siphon break instead.

[gcarroll]

Although there are many solutions to the problem the answer to the OP's question is:

http://www.lagunaponds.com/lagunaeng/pumps/maxflo-powerpump.php?link=146

It has a built in failsafe against overheating. I considered it a while ago but decided to go with a different design.

[watchndsky]

thats a good idea- pump with a cutoff switch....

[serum153]

Why not get a reefkeeper lite lvl1, sl2, 2 float switches. Have the float switch trip if they reach a certain level turning the pump off, until you can top off? That is what I am doing

[watchndsky]

Why not get a reefkeeper lite lvl1, sl2, 2 float switches. Have the float switch trip if they reach a certain level turning the pump off, until you can top off? That is what I am doing

how is that working out for you? how long have you been using?

[Fishamatank]

the Blue Line / Poseidon velocity series external pumps have a temperature shut off. They tend to raise the water temperature quite a bit though.

[RAJOD]

no pump can run dry, except for a mono flow type progressive cavity with a rubber stator pump. these pumps are not for consumer usage. you need to rethink your method/thought process.

a mag 18 is way overkill for what you are replacing. what is your tank/sump size etc? are you going thru an overflow box, or is your tanik drilled.

Maybe not what your looking for but I have external little giant pumps and they have run dry several times for days. Usually over the weekend, I had my external skimmer (which had its cup drain to a floor drain) well it overskimmed and the sump ran very low.

I called little giant and they said "No problem" Well they are running fine 3 years later. Funny can't do that with a Iwaki but can with Little giants.

They are tough pumps but are external.